That first pen for Portugal tonight

[Sandikan]

How's it a pen? he punched the ball. Is he supposed to let the player score?

Haha bloody hell mate.
Watch it again.

 

[Oranges038]

I never heard it tbf and I actually searched for it as well and I found this:

https://www.goal.com/en/news/footba...-meanings-explained/lpfi6xqrxtmc1gjoi1e7hc7un

Nothing about a "free out" but it has a few good ones that I never heard it either.

Aye, I've played soccer and GAA and it's always been used. Could be just an Irish thing, pretty much used all the time in football and hurling.

Free in - attacking free
Free out - defensive free

Quite simple really.

https://salemhurling.wordpress.com/what-is-hurling/terminology/

 

[Rado_N]

Yeah, all by myself just this morning. I think it'll catch on eventually.

Definitely haven't heard it used before in any game I've ever played or watched for the last 20 or 30 odd years.

I’m glad we understand each other.

 

[Gonçalo Motta]

Aye, I've played soccer and GAA and it's always been used. Could be just an Irish thing, pretty much used all the time in football and hurling.

Free in - attacking free
Free out - defensive free

Quite simple really.

https://salemhurling.wordpress.com/what-is-hurling/terminology/

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying I never heard it. Or if I did, at least it didn't stick with me

 

[barros]

For me was a penalty and yellow card not red. In my playing times we had a player to take care of the goalie when he was too aggressive (jumping with the knee high and punching players "by accident").

 

[Solskjær's Red Army]

A clear pen and possibly a red card too. Immediately reminded me the challenge Diego López made on Vidic from the corner in the Real game at OT. It should've been a penalty & a red too.

 

[Zlaatan]

Keepers are mostly over protected when it comes to aerial challenges for the ball in the box in games.

But you come into that area you might get smashed either way, it's the risk you take. But to most keepers that's never a penalty. It's a 50/50 ball he has to go for, he's just a fraction of a second late.

As a keeper I see that as no different, less dangerous and less painful than a clash of heads as it's not skull on skull.

Are we going to start seeing penalties when people clash heads now?

When it comes to clashing heads, you need more context to make a call as the force you use and the way you come into the situation needs to be accounted for. If we use the Lloris situation but replace him with a CB and the arm for a head then I don't see how it would be a different outcome. Your intent or what body part you use doesn't matter when you clatter an opponent like that.

I will agree to disagree with you on all counts bar the Mbappe incident!

For me Lloris gets a fist on the ball, which happens before the contact with Danilo, the handball is not clear, he is a yard away and looking in the opposite direction! Poor decision in my eyes.

Touching the ball before the player isn't a way out of a foul anymore, they removed that rule a very long time ago.


As I said in the match day thread, Jonas Eriksson (retired ref with loads of EC, WC and CL games under his belt) was in the Swedish studio and said he would’ve given Lloris a red card for dangerous play.

 

[justsomebloke]

It was way more of a pen than France’s.

This. Can't believe they called that.

 

[Chief123]

I find it incredible so many posters thought it wasn’t a pen. Lloris should have seen the red card imo.

Can someone explain how that wasn’t a penalty? Cheers.

This thread should have been about France’s penalty. That was a joke. Mbappe going down way too easily.

 

[Withnail]

A quick question to those who think it was a penalty - if a defender clashes heads in the box going for a ball like that, is that a penalty?

Lloris gets a bit of the ball and also gets the player with a ball playing part of his body - no difference from a clash of heads which almost never results in a penalty.

Keepers are mostly over protected when it comes to aerial challenges for the ball in the box in games.

But you come into that area you might get smashed either way, it's the risk you take. But to most keepers that's never a penalty. It's a 50/50 ball he has to go for, he's just a fraction of a second late.

As a keeper I see that as no different, less dangerous and less painful than a clash of heads as it's not skull on skull.

Are we going to start seeing penalties when people clash heads now?

It's completely different from the usual 50/50 where there is a clash of heads because Lloris was late.

He didn't challenge for the ball that Danilo headed. Just because the ball happened to deflect onto his fist before he punched him and followed through with the elbow doesn't mean it was a fair challenge.

 

[Champ]

It's completely different from the usual 50/50 where there is a clash of heads because Lloris was late.

He didn't challenge for the ball that Danilo headed. Just because the ball happened to deflect onto his fist before he punched him and followed through with the elbow doesn't mean it was a fair challenge.

It's a goal keeper, they are completely different from the rest of the players on the pitch, they are allowed to try and punch a ball.

The fact that he touched the ball means a lot in this instance.

 

[Champ]

When it comes to clashing heads, you need more context to make a call as the force you use and the way you come into the situation needs to be accounted for. If we use the Lloris situation but replace him with a CB and the arm for a head then I don't see how it would be a different outcome. Your intent or what body part you use doesn't matter when you clatter an opponent like that.




Touching the ball before the player isn't a way out of a foul anymore, they removed that rule a very long time ago.


As I said in the match day thread, Jonas Eriksson (retired ref with loads of EC, WC and CL games under his belt) was in the Swedish studio and said he would’ve given Lloris a red card for dangerous play.

For goalkeepers it is.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Got the ball then the player. No penalty. Sucks that the player got taken out, but it's a rough sport and that happens sometimes. Don't worry though, the ref gave the make up call later on...

 

[Withnail]

It's a goal keeper, they are completely different from the rest of the players on the pitch, they are allowed to try and punch a ball.

The fact that he touched the ball means a lot in this instance.

You don't think Lloris was late, then?

If we're both going for the ball, you get there first and kick it and as I'm coming late to challenge for it, the ball happens to hit my foot before I stud you in the leg I'm not absolved of the offence.

 

[ninjaskill]

Got the ball then the player. No penalty. Sucks that the player got taken out, but it's a rough sport and that happens sometimes. Don't worry though, the ref gave the make up call later on...

He got the ball first because Danilo headed it into him, he was out of control reckless and second to the ball before totally wiping out the player.

If all that mattered was if he got the tiniest touch of the ball or not then if it was a penalty or not would depend on the direction that Danilo headed the ball in as if he headed it away from Lloris it would be a penalty as the reason you say it shouldn't be a penalty is that Lloris touched the ball after Danilo headed it.

 

[Withnail]

He got the ball first because Danilo headed it into him, he was out of control reckless and second to the ball before totally wiping out the player.

If all that mattered was if he got the tiniest touch of the ball or not then if it was a penalty or not would depend on the direction that Danilo headed the ball in as if he headed it away from Lloris it would be a penalty as the reason you say it shouldn't be a penalty is that Lloris touched the ball after Danilo headed it.

Exactly now we're in the realm of if the ball deflects sideways off Danilo's head it's a pen but because he directed it goalwards and into Lloris's fist it's not.

 

[Handré1990]

This thread should have been about France’s penalty. That was a joke. Mbappe going down way too easily.

Asked and answered. A thread about a situation everybody agree was a mistake makes for poor debate I should think.

 

[Handré1990]

I’ve been pretty irritated by what the keepers are allowed to do compared to the rest of the players for some time (except de Gea who seems free game for rough treatment).

There was a disallowed goal against us where Zlatan backheeled it in on the first post, it was disallowed for dangerous play, when the replay showed there was about a meter and a half of space between the keeper and Zlatan. Don’t remember which game, perhaps someone who remember can help me out?

Anyway, quite the contrast for what seems to be deemed OK from quite a lot of posters wrt the Lloris incident.

 

[JPRouve]

It was clearly a penalty the only debate is red or yellow card.

 

[Handré1990]

It was clearly a penalty the only debate is red or yellow card.

Yeah, agreed. I found it reckless enough to warrant a red, but I can surely see the point for just giving a yellow. The pen shouldn’t be in question, and why I made this thread.

 

[Idxomer]

I’ve been pretty irritated by what the keepers are allowed to do compared to the rest of the players for some time (except de Gea who seems free game for rough treatment).

There was a disallowed goal against us where Zlatan backheeled it in on the first post, it was disallowed for dangerous play, when the replay showed there was about a meter and a half of space between the keeper and Zlatan. Don’t remember which game, perhaps someone who remember can help me out?

Anyway, quite the contrast for what seems to be deemed OK from quite a lot of posters wrt the Lloris incident.

Also, Valdez is pathetic.

 

[Handré1990]

Also, Valdez is pathetic.

Cheers! That was exactly the one I was thinking of. His foot is down before he’s anywhere near the keeper.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Because people can just launch their head towards a keepers fist and draw an easy penalty. When you go for the ball, you take a risk.

But there is a clear definition between the two, if a player heads the ball and the keeper punches them after the fact, that is clearly different than somehow “throwing yourself into the keepers fist.”.

 

[Oranges038]

It's completely different from the usual 50/50 where there is a clash of heads because Lloris was late.

He didn't challenge for the ball that Danilo headed. Just because the ball happened to deflect onto his fist before he punched him and followed through with the elbow doesn't mean it was a fair challenge.

I'm biased keeper, I've come for balls like this 100s of times and never been punished for it. If you ask me he should have had the protector up as well, come in there for a ball like that and you should expect to take a hit.

Keepers do this exact same thing almost every game. 9 times out of ten he wins that ball, flattens the player and he's lauded for his bravery because he will usually take a heavy hit in the process.

It was a 50/50 and he was a fraction of a second late. Start giving penalties for those and no keeper is going to come for a balls like that anymore. You then have to start giving penalties where 50/50 headers result in a player going down if the defender is slightly late.

 

[Withnail]

I'm biased keeper, I've come for balls like this 100s of times and never been punished for it. If you ask me he should have had the protector up as well, come in there for a ball like that and you should expect to take a hit.

Keepers do this exact same thing almost every game. 9 times out of ten he wins that ball, flattens the player and he's lauded for his bravery because he will usually take a heavy hit in the process.

It was a 50/50 and he was a fraction of a second late. Start giving penalties for those and no keeper is going to come for a balls like that anymore. You then have to start giving penalties where 50/50 headers result in a player going down if the defender is slightly late.

I get the keeper has to come for the ball but I think you're over-reacting a little. I know you prefaced your point with the biased keeper line so fair enough.

However, my question would be does the player get a punch and/or elbow straight in the face after winning the ball 9 times out of 10 (or even 99 times out of 100) or was this an exceptional incident?

If we agree that this was an exceptional incident, then it should follow that we can say that giving a penalty in exceptional circumstances isn't going to impact the the actions of keepers in general, given that the vast majority of the time they come for the ball and win it.

 

[Zlaatan]

For goalkeepers it is.

They are given more leeway in certain situations like 1v1's for example, but there's no way that the rule that penalizes an outfield player for dangerous play despite getting to the ball first doesn't apply to goalies as well. If that's the case then someone would've pointed it out the second it happened and we wouldn't have refs with 100+ international games behind them saying Lloris deserved a red card.

 

[Oranges038]

I get the keeper has to come for the ball but I think you're over-reacting a little. I know you prefaced your point with the biased keeper line so fair enough.

However, my question would be does the player get a punch and/or elbow straight in the face after winning the ball 9 times out of 10 (or even 99 times out of 100) or was this an exceptional incident?

If we agree that this was an exceptional incident, then it should follow that we can say that giving a penalty in exceptional circumstances isn't going to impact the the actions of keepers in general, given that the vast majority of the time they come for the ball and win it.

Occasionally a player will take a whack to the head or face even after the keeper wins the ball, could be a fist or an elbow it's never a discussion point when the ball is won. Here I can see why he's given it, but personally I don't think it's a penalty, to me it's a coming together the same way as a clash of heads.

In future could you have situations where the goalkeeper comes and wins the ball and then makes contact with the player like this and has a penalty given against them anyway? It's possible, the fouls could be given in the same way as a player who makes a tackle, wins the ball and still gets penalised for it.

 

[Withnail]

Occasionally a player will take a whack to the head or face even after the keeper wins the ball, could be a fist or an elbow it's never a discussion point when the ball is won. Here I can see why he's given it, but personally I don't think it's a penalty, to me it's a coming together the same way as a clash of heads.

In future could you have situations where the goalkeeper comes and wins the ball and then makes contact with the player like this and has a penalty given against them anyway? It's possible, the fouls could be given in the same way as a player who makes a tackle, wins the ball and still gets penalised for it.

Perhaps and I do see your point. I know it's a fine line and once you get there first you're generally ok.

Punching the ball when you're not in danger of hitting someone or attempting to catch it is one thing but now that I think of it is flying through the air, while leading with your fist, towards other players who are hurtling towards you really something to be encouraged?

 

[Oranges038]

Perhaps and I do see your point. I know it's a fine line and once you get there first you're generally ok.

Punching the ball when you're not in danger of hitting someone or attempting to catch it is one thing but now that I think of it is flying through the air, while leading with your fist, towards other players who are hurtling towards you really something to be encouraged?

I just dont see it as being any different to two players going for the ball in the air at speed and clashing heads. It's probably even less dangerous.

 

[Champ]

They are given more leeway in certain situations like 1v1's for example, but there's no way that the rule that penalizes an outfield player for dangerous play despite getting to the ball first doesn't apply to goalies as well. If that's the case then someone would've pointed it out the second it happened and we wouldn't have refs with 100+ international games behind them saying Lloris deserved a red card.

So why aren't GKs punished more then?
These incidents happen frequently, yet never seen a penalty given.

If GKs are to be punished for attempting and getting to the ball then we will see a lot more penalties moving forward. I'd wager we won't though.

 

[Zlaatan]

So why aren't GKs punished more then?
These incidents happen frequently, yet never seen a penalty given.

If GKs are to be punished for attempting and getting to the ball then we will see a lot more penalties moving forward. I'd wager we won't though.

Collisions happen frequently when goalies comes out to clear the ball yes, but incidents like this where the initial contact is with a players head and there's a huge chance of injury/concussion does not happen frequently, I would even say it's very rare.

Lloris also wasn't punished for attempting to get the ball, he was punished for elbowing Pereira in the head with a lot of force behind it. It's textbook dangerous play. If he would've missed Pereira with his arm and they would've had more of a body on body type collision then I would probably agree with you, but that just wasn't the case here.