Why is it not fair? Those that has fallen before ole doesnt given the same excuse. They live by their signings and sackes by them.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
Same old crap every time we lose
and we do it quite often
Suck it up, this young side will take a couple of seasons to mature
Compared to how we looked like under Jose when we were 1 or 2 nill down? At least there is an effort from the players on the pitch..
By losing games constantly and not managing to tie a run of wins together? He is doing the exact opposite of what you are saying.
If you read my earlier posts from this thread you will see that this is the one positive element, however intangible it is, from OGS tenure as a manager.
My general opinion is that this "rebuild" is based on the wrong premises on what type of football should be played today to be competitive over time and what type of players are needed to play this type football.
Any club in the world could make the argument that any manager might turn into Saf if they are given 6 years. It's mental. Other big clubs sack managers all the the time when they are not performing. Having Saf for 26 years was unique. It's not going to happen again. Pep didn't stay at Barca to build a dynasty, Klopp didn't spend the rest of his career at dortmund, Ancelotti, mourinho etc. Maybe if we gave Moyes 6 years, he would have become Saf. Who the feck knows.
Leceister sacked Raineri the season after he won the league. Look at that.
"They live by their signings and sackes by them" - my point, exactly.
They should not be sacked for the failure of the club to make the signings - the club let Fellaini, Herrera (and Lukaku) go and did not replace them - the midfield cupboard is nearly empty, with McTominay punching well above his expected weight at this stage in his career, before his injury and Fred rapidly improving to hold the fort. Given Pogba's recent injury record, we have been without 3 midfielders and now have no squad backup to come in at atime of year when injuries are quite normal. The other 'proven' alternative for DM being Matic (who seemed to be on his way out, too)
Ole is not responsible for that and we got well beaten by an Arsenal team that can draw on a midfield squad depth that we simply do not have.
I wouldnt have a problem with this if he didnt waste time on Matic, Mata, etc. What is the point of even giving them time if we end up losing anyway. I could understand if they were playing and carrying us through to top4 but its not like we are any better. Id actually rather he put in some younger players at the expense of these players.
This. I don't know how anybody cannot see how threadbare this midfield is."They live by their signings and sackes by them" - my point, exactly.
They should not be sacked for the failure of the club to make the signings - the club let Fellaini, Herrera (and Lukaku) go and did not replace them - the midfield cupboard is nearly empty, with McTominay punching well above his expected weight at this stage in his career, before his injury and Fred rapidly improving to hold the fort. Given Pogba's recent injury record, we have been without 3 midfielders and now have no squad backup to come in at atime of year when injuries are quite normal. The other 'proven' alternative for DM being Matic (who seemed to be on his way out, too)
Ole is not responsible for that and we got well beaten by an Arsenal team that can draw on a midfield squad depth that we simply do not have.
It's frankly obtuse and narrow minded to believe Ole was happy to ignore the midfield. Herrera wanted crazy wages for his age and that was exactly part of the problem we had with the poor club strategy of rewarding older players, he wanted out so we let him go.
Fellaini was on the verge of leaving for a while and needed to go, nobody complained when he finally left.
Now to say Ole was happy for the two to leave and not bother replacing them is complete nonsense. Say what you want about Ole but he is not an idiot and knows how competitive and grueling this league is. He would never have been happy with the midfield regardless of what he says when he is towing the company line in interviews.
It's clear as day when you look at our net spend in the summer that we should have had more to spend in Midfield. I mean we are supposed to be the biggest club in the world and one of the richest.
Now it's not all about buying players, I understand that, but compare our net spend in the summer to that of another club giant in Real Madrid, who have a supposedly 'established manager' - as I've pointed out before the difference is night and day.
Madrid show what it takes to complete a rebuild a lot quicker, not everything but a hell of a lot is gained through recruitment and the speed at which a rebuild takes place is almost entirely dependent on it, unless you have Klopp as your manager who turns water into wine.
I mean the first thing Pep does at a new club is spend money like it's going out of fashion.
How people thought that Ole was going to totally transform us and correct 5 years of woeful player recruitment and mismanagement is beyond me, especially when you factor in the net spend in the summer and our injuries to key players.
I wasnt comparing him to being as great as Fergie, I was stating Fergie would have been sacked by now by most of the caf in the same time period.
I'll suck up if you people make up your mind for once. "Couple of seasons" is two or three or 10 ? Give us a number.
Last season's excuse were "solskjærtabellen " to "he needs a transfer window" to "players need pre season fitness" now it's "couple of season"
. I wonder what's next? "We need to replace Tea lady"More than the results, how can people justify his demeanor post the game? He's smiling like its a routine result and nothing outside of the plan has happened. He should be looking distraught at our position. Desperate to get us back. If its players we need, then ask for it publicly. Even if it is taking time, at least be unhappy that he's got a Man United team so far away from the top.
Things look bloody terrible right now on all levels. The only thing good is that we are in all cups so far, but that might soon change.
Mctominay out now is a massive blow and we lack options in midfield badly. Ole is not improving things with tactics and coaching and we look awful in attack and our defense can't keep any clean sheets.
Mctominay out now is a massive blow and we lack options in midfield badly. Ole is not improving things with tactics and coaching and we look awful in attack and our defense can't keep any clean sheets.
Not true is it? The situations were completely different, United weren't winning titles left right and center when Fergie took over.
When Mourinho wasn't being a cnut, our squad responded to him well and we finished 2nd. There is no mentality/culture/whateverthefeck change from Ole's period, we are just coasting by without fixing any problems and relying on individuality of players. We are just being fed bullshit about this culture thing, you know what improves winning mentality/culture, having a proper gameplan and executing it every match, it's no wonder Klopp and Guardiola's teams are doing well. They are coached well and that increases winning and it improves the "culture".
I'm still Ole in but that has nothing to do with me thinking he's good enough. I just don't see anything improving with the current structure at the club even if Ole is sacked.
I want the owners to sell the club, Woodward to lose his job and then for them to find a new manager.
I want the owners to sell the club, Woodward to lose his job and then for them to find a new manager.
Fergie took over Man Utd when we were in 21st place. Literally in the relegation zone and took United to 11th. No, he wouldn't have been sacked in the same time period.
Every 2 weeks or so then?
There is no real difference between Woodward and money men like Levy and Fenway. Their bottom line will always be money and making it and keeping it.
The fact is two of the above lucked into getting great managers and their stock grew as a result of that.
One of those managers Is available now and would allow us to consolidate with CL football and a style of play. Some sort of vision. If he is backed and has twice the wage budget he had at Tottenham, who knows what he could do.
Its not realistic to sit and hope that the whole structure of the club changes. We don’t have a good manager in charge and are wasting time and opportunities for a few potentially great young players.
It’s time to stop messing around before mid table becomes the accepted norm.
Funny, why can't the 'Ole in brigade' take the stick that they dish out after a win, that's given back to them after a defeat? It all seems very pathetic. The 'Ole in brigade' have been running around the forum over the past 2 weeks or so gloating and slagging off the fans that want him out. When they get the same stick back, they run and hide or bitch and moan. Don't give it if you aren't prepared to take it.
Ole took over a team that finished 2nd in the league the year before and took them from 6th to 6th and was labelled a revelation for it. He has spent £150m on recruitment in the summer and now has us 5th, closer in points to the relegation zone than the top.
Fergie took over a team literally in the relegation zone and guided them to a midtable finish.
This comparison needs to stop. Ole is not going to suddenly become a good manager.
It's embarassing. Ole is dubbed as klopp equal, and the next fergie. While having the worst start in epl history.
I get it some need to big up ole, but at least do it with a bit of class
That's true but what about Ole ? Does he have the capabilities to take the club from a position of outside the top 4 to winning league titles ? It seems there's alot of name and blame on the players but as seen with the Madrid last season, if good players lack direction they do not form a team.
If the perspective is that the players aren't good enough than it's a double whammy because Solskjaer isn't good enough either.
Also running around the place with posts like “they’re out in force again” when most of us have never changed our tune or went into hiding. They’ve actually made themselves believe those that want Ole out, also want him to fail, which is lunacy. We’re all fans of the club here and want what’s best for the club.
We all know the midfield is bare and we need more quality players. No one is denying that. But would anyone of us accept a midfield of Milner, and Henderson? No the CAF would revolt. So it is down to the manager to make it work. It is puzzling why some people cannot accept that he is not a top class coach. Why is it so difficult? There is no shame in accepting that. He has no track record of ever being a good coach.
This is a seriously stupid post.
One loss per month.
Forget about it. Even if They are getting called out on 1000 other stuffs, They will still repeat the same stuffs over and over. Some fans are just more ManUnited than the rest and We have to accept that. They have the best kind of arguments. We should respect Ole because He's a legend and criticizing him means We're stupid or cnuts. And if you dare to compare Ole and Mourinho, you're the dumbest thing since the loaning process of Mike Smalling. Those two, regardless of the fact that They both play defensive football and have struggled to put United back into the top four since 2018-Now, are two separate entities. Comparing Ole to the previous manager before him? what on earth are you doing? one was given a birth right to be a ManUnited manager and should be immune to criticism.
Funny, why can't the 'Ole Out brigade' take the stick that they dish out after a loss, that's given back to them after a win? It all seems very pathetic. The 'Ole Out brigade' have been running around the forum over the past day or so gloating and slagging off the fans that want him kept. When they get the same stick back, they run and hide or bitch and moan. Don't give it if you aren't prepared to take it.
It isn’t. A poor manager can have great players playing like good players, and a great manager can get good players to play like great players. But you can’t hope for much more than that. The vast majority of managers have good players playing at their level. That’s where we are. Have you seen how easily City‘s players took from the ball from us? Before someone says “but that’s City”, Wolves did the same thing. Our guys are young and more experienced players will outplay them.
The problem with the "Ole out" banter is most of you think we have a God-given right to be a top club. In sports you have to earn everything as nothing is just given because of your name. Yes, we have some average players but you can't throw them all out of the club at once. Yes, Ole has made mistakes but do you really want to become a club that sacks the manager every two or less years?
The other thing for me is many of Ole's poor matches and runs have almost always been directly linked to injuries. Last year we injured 4 players in 3 matches (Liverpool and PSG) and the amazing run at the start was totally halted. We suffered through the rest of the season because of lack of depth. This year our troubles can be linked to Martial, Pogba, and now McT's injuries. I would really like to see what Ole could do with a full squad and some depth before sacking him.
The other thing for me is many of Ole's poor matches and runs have almost always been directly linked to injuries. Last year we injured 4 players in 3 matches (Liverpool and PSG) and the amazing run at the start was totally halted. We suffered through the rest of the season because of lack of depth. This year our troubles can be linked to Martial, Pogba, and now McT's injuries. I would really like to see what Ole could do with a full squad and some depth before sacking him.
Not going to mention any money recouped to make your argument more dramatic?
That's just not true though. We were just as inconsistent and poor earlier in the season when they were all fit. We drew with Wolves, lost to Crystal Palace, and drew with Southampton at the beginning of the season with those players available. They were also all available during our terrible run-in last season.
Our record with Martial is better than our record without him but we've still lost to both Watford and Arsenal recently with him available. It doesn't matter who we have fit, it's always the same, we are incredibly inconsistent, we suck against the poor teams and we usually put in a good counter-attacking performance against a big-team when we come across them. That has been the case all season regardless of who is or isn't fit.
Same here.
The club need to spend time now getting someone in for the summer at least who comes with a team of trainers like Poch as an example and really, we need sorting out top to bottom but it probably only comes with new owners.
We need to get serious as a club. We're only in with a shout of top 4 because others are doing not so good but once Chelsea and Arsenal get back, we won't even be able to flirt with top 4 and will find top 6 a struggle.
We can only count on others being poor if the current regime continues.
Yup, works both ways. Here's a post of mine from the other day, enjoy:
I want him out, but I don't feel the need to align myself to one of these extremist 'brigades' that people seem to need to affiliate themselves to. Now don't get me wrong, most that want him in or out are rational about it and can just engage with others about the topic in a fairly decent manner. I do however find the ones that have aligned themselves firmly to the 'in brigade' in this thread to be overly emotional posters who live on sentiment and get themselves into a state when the 'out crowd' give them stick, while being pretty smug when we get a win. I mean, surely all sane posters want us to win, no?
I mean where do you guys honestly rank our squad based on the quality of players?
Without Pogba (who has been and will be absent most of the time) we're the 6th best team in the league. I don't think our squad without Pogba is better than City or Liverpool or Leceister or Chelsea or Tottenham. Ole has us at fifth and given the injury crisis we've had, given how thin our squad is we're still in a good position yet people talk like we're hanging in 12th place
I don't even think Ole is good enough for our rebuild but he deserves at least this season. 6th should be the minimum because as ridiculous as it may sound we're currently the sixth best team in the league compared to other teams.
My issue with Ole and why he's not good enough is because of our performances on the pitch and not even the results. Whether it's the new manager bounce or not Arteta yesterday implemented a high press better than what Ole has ever done so far. We've also spent 130m on defense and constantly leak goals. We don't know how to play from the back when under pressure. One match we're motivated and the next we're lethargic. Unless teams gives us acres of space our positional is awful. We're awful at defending corners. Without individual brilliance we're very predictable in attack. All these are the coach's doing.
I'd personally give Ole this season. If he enters top 6 with 'good performances' then I would keep him. Anything less than that and he should be sacked
Without Pogba (who has been and will be absent most of the time) we're the 6th best team in the league. I don't think our squad without Pogba is better than City or Liverpool or Leceister or Chelsea or Tottenham. Ole has us at fifth and given the injury crisis we've had, given how thin our squad is we're still in a good position yet people talk like we're hanging in 12th place
I don't even think Ole is good enough for our rebuild but he deserves at least this season. 6th should be the minimum because as ridiculous as it may sound we're currently the sixth best team in the league compared to other teams.
My issue with Ole and why he's not good enough is because of our performances on the pitch and not even the results. Whether it's the new manager bounce or not Arteta yesterday implemented a high press better than what Ole has ever done so far. We've also spent 130m on defense and constantly leak goals. We don't know how to play from the back when under pressure. One match we're motivated and the next we're lethargic. Unless teams gives us acres of space our positional is awful. We're awful at defending corners. Without individual brilliance we're very predictable in attack. All these are the coach's doing.
I'd personally give Ole this season. If he enters top 6 with 'good performances' then I would keep him. Anything less than that and he should be sacked
Despite our team looking pretty much clueless in some of the games, they do not look like they are giving up. And Molde has built a good culture over the years.
I'm in no way saying that this single "hard to quantify" element is enough to justify OGS being here next season or even next week, but at least it might be something. I tried to find one speck of positivity regarding our current management and situation.
Organizational culture (among the players in our squad) is something that is important for long term performance, and can be created by key people within the squad, shared values, performance, strategy etc. Organizational knowledge and competence is not something we have though.
Better than Chelsea. Better than Arsenal. And even better than Spurs when you factor in the issues they have over their key players all wanting to leave.
Winks and Sissoko is not in any way a better midfield than McTominay and Fred, for example.
With the way things have gone against Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs in the last year or so, any competent manager would have this United squad finishing ahead of them.
It seems childish from both sides. I'm pretty indifferent at the moment. Not convinced Ole is the right person for the job but not desperate for him to go yet either. I really don't understand what everyone gets out of arguing their position so strongly every day, or hating on people with an opposing opinion. It's not going to change anything.