He won’t the fa cup not the title, slight difference
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
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No, because we have the best form of 2020, best away record, look like scoring in every match, players in form.
I’ll also add we are starting to dominate games, we’re using passing patterns!!!!! Shock horror and ole is making some nice subs, that should please a few more of you.
We are not really dominating games (with the exception of yesterday). We had less possession than both City and Leeds for example, both at home. The United Way
Dominating games isn't measured by how much possession you have. See Leeds vs: Liverpool, City, Spurs, Chelsea and see how much possession they had. Is that the Klopp or Pep way? Klopp out?We are not really dominating games (with the exception of yesterday). We had less possession than both City and Leeds for example, both at home. The United Way
So out of everything I wrote, that’s all you disagree with and not happy with? But still moaning.We are not really dominating games (with the exception of yesterday). We had less possession than both City and Leeds for example, both at home. The United Way
you can also dominate a game without possession
Klopp's team dominates possession in like 98% av the games. That's what big teams do, as Gary Neville said: "Big teams who win titles dominate games, dominate possession. That's what they do. Manchester United has to start doing that, being on the front foot." I think United did that very well for 30 minutes yesterday. But we have to see that more often. If we aren't, then I don't see us winning anything of notice.
However, in your previous post you criticised Ole for not having more possession v's Leeds, yet Klopp's Liverpool ALSO didn't do it v's Leeds. They had less possession but won the game, they actually scraped the win with 2 penalties in a 3-2 win, we slaughtered them.
How on earth could you criticise United for battering Leeds 6-2....
This place never disappoints
I didn't criticize him. That's just you putting words in my mouth, not the first time mind. I have said that a manager at Manchester United should dominate games, and evidence is that all the title-winning sides dominate football matches and dominate possession. However, you can still win games without that, but in the long run, that's the way forward. And I don't think Ole does that on a regular basis.However, in your previous post you criticised Ole for not having more possession v's Leeds, yet Klopp's Liverpool ALSO didn't do it v's Leeds. They had less possession but won the game, they actually scraped the win with 2 penalties in a 3-2 win, we slaughtered them.
How on earth could you criticise United for battering Leeds 6-2....
This place never disappoints
We used to 'dominate' games under Van Gaal, sometimes getting up to 80% possession, but our shots stats were awful in a lot of those games, only 4 or 5. Dominating possession is not the major factor in winning matches.We are not really dominating games (with the exception of yesterday). We had less possession than both City and Leeds for example, both at home. The United Way
Nope, but all the teams who win big trophies have that playing style and dominate games. You don't win the league on the counter.
You said Ole's United should have more possession than Leeds if we want to be dominant
Funny you say the bolded part, Fergie's 2013 title winning squad were actually 4th in possession stats, joint with Swansea City. Fergie out?
Literally everyone has less possession than Leeds and CityWe are not really dominating games (with the exception of yesterday). We had less possession than both City and Leeds for example, both at home. The United Way
I fecking hate that possession equals dominance these days. Load of shite.
Give me Olè ball over tip tapping it around the back 4 all day long.
Give me Olè ball over tip tapping it around the back 4 all day long.
The use of ‘domination’, as if it’s a quantifiable unit of measurement is hilarious. Saying it’s a vague argument is an understatement.
Points and goals, that’s what matters.
Points and goals, that’s what matters.
I'm talking about how well the team have been playing for over a year now.
He has a better record at United that LVG, apart from the Cup. We may not win titles under Ole but we are best placed to kick on and do that since Fergie left.
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I honestly couldn’t care less about possession stats. Leeds will probably end the season in 15th despite likely having more possession in all 38 PL games, because they can’t blend the two fundamentals of football, attacking and defending in a balanced manner. If we can, I don’t care if we have less possession in every game because we will win loads of matches l. It’s that simple.
We are not really dominating games (with the exception of yesterday). We had less possession than both City and Leeds for example, both at home. The United Way
You arent impressed by his results?
One in a million mate.
No, not a single trophy yet. Sixth and third in the league, although he did okayish last season in the league. Will we be better than third this season? Highly doubt it.
How long did it take for Klopp to win his first trophy at Liverpool? I can see reading your posts that you only equate success to trophies so there's little point discussing the matter right now with you. But given we're currently on a very good run (we have been all year) I would suggest you pipe down. It's Christmas Eve and we just beat Everton to reach yet another semi final. Have a drink and be happy. We're actually a decent footballing side again. Not the finished product by any means but we're closing the gap.
People are obsessed with possession and stats in football. I guess it is the way to get more people interested in sport, who never played and don't know anything about it. Who cares about possession? Is that percentage of possession in attacking third, or in your own half? Is there a difference between useful possession from which you can create something, and possession LVG style where you keep the ball in the game just for the sake of it?
Our style is not based on possession. From what I can see, our main style in possession is to make two ways to penetrate defense. First, by making them press on our defenders, opening space for one of our midfielders/forwards to receive open pass on the 30-35 yards in their half, so they can go on goal with runs from the flanks inside. Second, when we are in final third to slow down passing and than increase speed by sending ball on 20 yards with a few flick ons and fast distribution so someone can get in position to shoot (or crossing from the flanks). The first one is working for us, the second one not that much, although better with Cavani runs in the box.
In both options, possession is not that important as players are allowed to send those passes as soon as they think that it can work. They have freedom to make mistakes as long they are back in defense when they make mistake.
Also, on of the options for us is to let their defenders running to our goal, opening space for them, so they can reach 25 yards or so. The goal is to make them to make mistake and have open runs for our wingers. Using speed of Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood, and good vision of Bruno, Pogba, Mata let us to have better numbers in counter. Although our counters still don't work the best they can with this setup, we are extremely dangerous from there and teams are afraid to be in that positions against us. Good example was yesterday with Bruno and Rashford missing two easy chances in final minutes. We scored one, we could score 3-5 in the last 5 minutes once we have been one up as there was tones of space behind. That is something we won't to create once we let them have possession. In those situations we are more dangerous, and not having possession works better for us.
At the end, as someone says, football is about feelings. Watching Ole's United is fun. It doesn't work sometimes, it is frustrating, but it looks better every day. Squad looks good, looks like players are there willing to fight and enjoying the ride. Most of them here to stay, and most of them that are playing every week we would like have in the team for years. Some will leave, and if Ole replace them in the same way as he did with all his signings so far, this team will be even better with every month. With competition for places, once he replace Lingard, Jones, Rojo, Matic and Mata for example (last two due to age), with CB, RB, DM, CM and RW we will have 2 players for every position that will grow with the team. Future looks good, and it certainly did not look good even with trophies people are mentioning, when you could see it won't be any better.
Our style is not based on possession. From what I can see, our main style in possession is to make two ways to penetrate defense. First, by making them press on our defenders, opening space for one of our midfielders/forwards to receive open pass on the 30-35 yards in their half, so they can go on goal with runs from the flanks inside. Second, when we are in final third to slow down passing and than increase speed by sending ball on 20 yards with a few flick ons and fast distribution so someone can get in position to shoot (or crossing from the flanks). The first one is working for us, the second one not that much, although better with Cavani runs in the box.
In both options, possession is not that important as players are allowed to send those passes as soon as they think that it can work. They have freedom to make mistakes as long they are back in defense when they make mistake.
Also, on of the options for us is to let their defenders running to our goal, opening space for them, so they can reach 25 yards or so. The goal is to make them to make mistake and have open runs for our wingers. Using speed of Rashford, Martial, James and Greenwood, and good vision of Bruno, Pogba, Mata let us to have better numbers in counter. Although our counters still don't work the best they can with this setup, we are extremely dangerous from there and teams are afraid to be in that positions against us. Good example was yesterday with Bruno and Rashford missing two easy chances in final minutes. We scored one, we could score 3-5 in the last 5 minutes once we have been one up as there was tones of space behind. That is something we won't to create once we let them have possession. In those situations we are more dangerous, and not having possession works better for us.
At the end, as someone says, football is about feelings. Watching Ole's United is fun. It doesn't work sometimes, it is frustrating, but it looks better every day. Squad looks good, looks like players are there willing to fight and enjoying the ride. Most of them here to stay, and most of them that are playing every week we would like have in the team for years. Some will leave, and if Ole replace them in the same way as he did with all his signings so far, this team will be even better with every month. With competition for places, once he replace Lingard, Jones, Rojo, Matic and Mata for example (last two due to age), with CB, RB, DM, CM and RW we will have 2 players for every position that will grow with the team. Future looks good, and it certainly did not look good even with trophies people are mentioning, when you could see it won't be any better.
I don't agree that we have been on a good run all year. We have been very lucky at times (Brighton, West Ham, Southampton) and we have also been playing very well at times, and very bad at times. We have seen it all. He has been very good in the last two games, so that's a start. I agree that things are looking better. I haven't said anything else. Ole has done some good things. It's just that I don't think that's enough in the long run. To close the gap we need to be better than third, we have already fecked up CL. Do I think we will finish 1st or 2nd? No. I don't. Sadly.
Yet our results show that we are on a good run. We're the team thats picked up most points with the highest win % in the league since lockdown ended, we're the team with the 2nd highest win percentage in the calendar year. We're clearly on a very good run of form and our results have also gone up a tier.
I'll ask you again, how long did it take Klopp to win a trophy at Liverpool?
Can you at least concede that you win games by giving yourself a chance to shoot 25 times with 15 on target? Cause that’s when you score goals. Well, this is what we do.
I don't know, and I don't care. Don't compare Ole with the likes of Klopp and Ferguson. They're rare. Klopp is the best manager in the world and is going to win the league with a pretty weak squad right now.
Yes we do need to do better than third to close the gap but this season will be better than last season and I fully expect us to be closer to the top than at end of last year.
The team isn't the finished product and there is still work to do. I'm not convinced we'll get a title race this year but things are improving and we quite clearly have been on a good run for the past year. The results show that.
2 billion? 2? Billion?
This post starts badly and goes downhill from there. I can only suggest a break from the keyboard as it appears to be warping your view somewhat.
I mean come on man, you're coming across as completely nuts.
This isnt even close to being true
Having the best 2 forwards in the league, 2 world class fullbacks and a hard working drilled midfield? Yeah poor klopp.
Plus the most reliable keeper and Jota, who many would put in the same bracket as Rashford.
Ole has been and is still the right man for the job.
I’m not even sure why this is such a discussion. We have won as many points as any in 2020. He said at the beginning he knows what he wants the squad to look like in threw years and for us to challenge then. He’s got us a third place finish in his first full season, and came out and said that we have to get much closer to the two above this season. We’re currently 2/3 in the table and just a few points off the top.
Starting again at this point would be madness.
I’m not even sure why this is such a discussion. We have won as many points as any in 2020. He said at the beginning he knows what he wants the squad to look like in threw years and for us to challenge then. He’s got us a third place finish in his first full season, and came out and said that we have to get much closer to the two above this season. We’re currently 2/3 in the table and just a few points off the top.
Starting again at this point would be madness.
It took the "best Manager in the world" till 18/19 to win a trophy for Liverpool (Champions League). He joined Liverpool on the 8th October 2015. So it took 3 and a half years for him to finally get a trophy. You were the one to talk about Klopp in this thread, so lets talk about him.
1st season - joins in October. Gets to the League Cup final, loses on penalities to City. Knocked out of FA Cup in 4th round, loses Europa League final to Sevilla. Finishes 8th in the League.
2nd season - not even in Europa as failed the season before. Knocked out of League Cup in the semis losing to Southampton. Loses 4th round match to Wolves. Finishes 4th in the league on 76 points.
3rd season - Loses to Leicester in the first League Cup game, loses to West Brom in the 4th round of the FA Cup. Does however reach the Champions League final, losing to Real Madrid. Finished the season 4th on 75 points.
It's the 4th season where everything finally clicked in place for Klopp. What point am I making? That even for a great Manager like Klopp, it took time and patience before they were able to climb up the league and be a top tier club. They also struggled for consistency. For a Manager like Ole to bring United back up to where we want to be will also take time. We also are experiencing the same bumps Klopp and Liverpool had, but the signs of us going up the next level are there and uinlike Jose, Ole has everyone going with him and unlike Jose, Ole is approaching Uniteds rebuild with a long term strategy.
Either way, been a very good year to be a United fan. I've enjoyed it and i'm feeling very positive we're heading in the right direction. We'll still have a few more bumps but I see the signs that we've stepped up a tier and should finish on more points this season. Mid 70's is my personal objective.
the guy is a complete troll. He’s not worth replying to. He’s gone on ignore. The posts on the last page are terrible.
Probably for the best really.
Great post. Sadly a bit wasted on those who has spat their dummies out already. They have thrown their toys out of the pram and are now feigning objectivity. They just cant stand that their entitlement isnt being satisfied. It certainly isnt about the journey for them.
The united way? Under SAF the united way was to play exciting gung ho football when our eleven was better than the opposition which was most of the time. SAF was no idiot and his utd way when the opposition players matched or bettered ours was to play cautious pragmatic football.We are not really dominating games (with the exception of yesterday). We had less possession than both City and Leeds for example, both at home. The United Way
Basically, like all managers, he would set the team up so that they had the best chance of winning against whatever the opposition had.
I SAF later years we were not so much better squad wise and the football was not as gung ho but people have selwctive memories
Right now the lower teams in the EPL are closer to the top teams and whereas years ago rthere was usually one main team challenging at the same level as us now there are several.
Good post. This is all true. Ole has a similar ethos to SAF. Attacking wherever possible but pragmatic.
I’ve been reading your posts in this thread and, please don’t take this as patronising or condescending or mean, it’s been entertaining.
I can’t really comprehend what it must be like to feel as you do but to your credit you stick to your guns.
I don’t know about you but I detected a bit of a shift in the media recently. Fewer people saying Ole’s out of his depth. The idea of Utd as challengers being seriously discussed. More pundits talking about the general upward curve under Ole and the exciting qualities of our attacking football.
Sure there are skeptics and, I get it, you are one of them. Being as you are a fan, I’m not sure why you are taking such a negative stance but being a fan is not always easy and it’s hard to be patient etc, etc, I can sympathise to an extent. Having said that, I don’t find your arguments persuasive at all. But happy Xmas anyway, let’s hope for a trophy next year.
Even SAF's teams didn't dominate possession in all games.