If anyone wants Ole out after putting us on top of the league at the halfway point, you're just the worst.
The “Ole In” Brigade
- Thread starter Lentwood
- Start date
not in the first 20 mins or so, we were laboured. As soon as we got going and pressed, they made mistakes. We need to do it from the start.
So you're saying that a top club with Ole, Phelan and 50 scouts couldn't find an alternative to a CB with zero leadership, zero pace and meah defensive skills? We're talking of a rumoured 80m in cash spent. That's alot of money.If we didn't signed anyone that summer, Ole had to play Smalling, Lindelof, Baily, Rojo, Jones, and Young?
ffs only 2 of them were fit to play entire season and who the hell will be the "usually made" defenders?
Ferdinand was bought with a transfer record fee after fail experiment with Blanc. Woodward is the one who bought Skoda for 300K, you can't blame Ole for that.
And I assure you that Ole was kept updated and could have asked the club to bail out at every step on the way. You don't need to be a genius to acknowledge that Maguire would have costed us an arm and a leg either.
Correct. Koulibaly was the other option and was quoted over £100m.
Maguire cost what he cost, but if you look at the reasons why he was top of the list, it makes sense.
Phelan has worked with him in the past.
Ole wanted to reset the culture of the club when he came in, going for a player your assistant has worked with and gives high praise to is a very good start.
He had a very good world cup
He is proven in the PL
He can dominate in the air
He can play out the back
He is experienced enough (27) so he doesn't need time to bed in.
He is probably first name on Englands team sheet
His injury record is very good
He wont use Manutd as a stepping stone to Madrid or Barca
Also, majority of the caf wanted De Ligt, the club looked at him too but he wanted too much £££ and rejected us..
2 years on if you ask me who I would rather have? it would be Maguire over De Ligt.
If we had a proper manager with a decent CV, we'd be 10 points clear, in the LC final and still in the UCL.
Or something
The DOF system had spread like wildlfire across most top clubs in Europe. Liverpool, Juventus, Bayern, Dortmund, Barcelona, Chelsea.....the list is endless. So I guess there's many benefits surrounding the role considering almost everyone adopted it. What you mention can happen though. For example Paratici got himself in a similar scuffle with Sarri on Emre Can. Bottom line of the story Sarri wanted to get rid of Emre Can, Paratici believed that Sarri would start appreciating Can's versatility, he didn't, it went public and Can was gone in the January sales. However its rare.
I agree with you on Ole, some times in football if you can master simplicity and delegation it can be incredibly helpful.
I think he has a bit of say on everything and has input but he kind of acts like a sporting director who gives team talks.
He’s one of the rare people in life who is just quietly assured, confident not cocky and very laid back, this balance must help him when dealing with varying personalities.
What was it you wrote about us 1 year ago ?
"I honestly do not think that most fans here on CAF who support to keep Ole are real United fans. Any idiot can see that he is out of his depth. "
Last time we were idiots and not real fans - now we are twats.
Apparently, we've accumulated 80 points over the last 38 games, which is plenty enough to win the league most seasons.
That's an impressive haul by anyone's standards and considerably better than his predecessors post-SAF managed. Mourinho. for example, barely reached 60 points when we finished a distant second behind City.
Ole is very much the man right now.
That's an impressive haul by anyone's standards and considerably better than his predecessors post-SAF managed. Mourinho. for example, barely reached 60 points when we finished a distant second behind City.
Ole is very much the man right now.
Got a source for that?
Sometimes it's great to be wrong. I think Ole, and the coaching staff in general were out of their depth 12 months ago, and it wasn't looking good.
I think they have come to terms with the squad, both from a talent point of view, and as people. There's a core group of players they now trust, and the players are playing for each other and the manager.
I don't think tactically Ole has evolved, or his philosophy has changed or anything like that. He's managed to connect with a talented group of players, and get them pulling in the same direction. Time to forget about 'Ole in' or 'Ole out' and all that, let's just enjoy the rest of the season and see where we stand!
I think they have come to terms with the squad, both from a talent point of view, and as people. There's a core group of players they now trust, and the players are playing for each other and the manager.
I don't think tactically Ole has evolved, or his philosophy has changed or anything like that. He's managed to connect with a talented group of players, and get them pulling in the same direction. Time to forget about 'Ole in' or 'Ole out' and all that, let's just enjoy the rest of the season and see where we stand!
We finished on 81 points in Mourinho's second season. He still wasn't the right man ultimately, but we had a pretty good season that year.
Agree with this, as someone who has been mildly "Ole out" twice (December 2019 and October 2020). The culture he's cultivating is phenomenal, and I hope he continues to cultivate that
Where did I get 60 points from then?
Out of all the new signings, Maguire and Fernandes are the only clear first-XI improvements from their 17/18 equivalents - Wan Bissaka isn't much better at this point than 2017 Valencia, Telles is a rotation option, James is worse than 2017 Mata/Lingard, Cavani and Van de Beek have started about two games each.
Mourinho had a better striker, a better version of Matic, and the best goalkeeper in the world at the time. Solskjaer has Maguire and Fernandes (who is clearly 10X better than Mkhitaryan/Lingard), improved and more experienced versions of the same players in Martial+Rashford, and two Mourinho signings that looked utterly shite for Mourinho playing key roles for him in Fred and Lindelof (Mourinho didn't have Fred that season, but he did have a fairly similar and arguably better player in Herrera). There's not a lot between the squads, and there was nothing particularly surprising about Mourinho's squad finishing second, as evidenced by the pre-season odds that year. That was my point.
It is and always has been Glazers out. Ole is doing an OK job at the moment but the headwinds he faces from a badly run club make a Title a really big ask
We've taken 78 points from our last 38 games (stretches back to just before Bruno arrived), so we've had a similar level of performance to Mourinho's second season, during this period.
The lowest Premier League winning points tally in the last 10 years was 81, in the 2010/11 season. Generally, 86-89 points is the zone to aim for (although obviously the winner has needed 98+ points for the last three seasons in a row).
Essentially, since Bruno has been here, we've been performing at a level that you might historically class as 'solid top 3 Premier League side' - one that might expect to be in the title race in most previous Premier League seasons, without quite winning it. It's decent enough and will surely be enough for the Glazers to stick with him.
Maybe his first season? Can't remember what we finished on, maybe mid 60's..
We're still a level below winning it I think. As you said, around the 80 mark is just below where you're in with a chance. For us to rack up near 50 points in the remaining 19 fixtures will be very tough. Looking back, we should have accumulated another 5/6 points against Arsenal, Chelsea and Leicester, which would bring us more in line to where we'd be in with a real shout of the title.
The winner has needed 98+ points just once - 2018/19. City could have won the league with 82 in Mou's 2nd season, same for Pool last year. People forget that you need to get just 1 point more than 2nd placed side to win the league.
As far as this season is concerned, this is a normal PL season, unlike the last 4 where the leader was invincible and beating teams left right and centre.
We've been decent in the last 12 months and with a bit of improvement (a new right winger and a competent holding midfielder, perhaps), we'd be there or thereabouts most years in this league. The problem is that in the last three seasons, Liverpool and City have set an unbelievable standard, which I can't see us getting anywhere near under Ole. Those years may well prove to be an aberration, though.
That's of course correct. What I should have said is that the winner has amassed 98+ points in the last three seasons in a row. 86 points would probably be enough this season.
I am and always will be a huge Ole fan, that will never change.
Its good to see United at the top right now, mainly because that will relieve some of the pressure that was mounting on him a few weeks back.
However, even the biggest Ole fans out there cannot hide the fact that his game management needs huge improvements, he takes way too long to make adjustments / changes during a game.
Are there signs that he is improving as a manager ? .. I would say yes there is, so hopefully we see further improvements as the season progresses.
One thing is for sure, the players have not downed tools for him, if anything they have upped their game for a manager that was struggling somewhat ( granted there are 1 or 2 that have gone backwards ) .... but overall its good to see players backing a manager that was not exactly crushing it.
Its good to see United at the top right now, mainly because that will relieve some of the pressure that was mounting on him a few weeks back.
However, even the biggest Ole fans out there cannot hide the fact that his game management needs huge improvements, he takes way too long to make adjustments / changes during a game.
Are there signs that he is improving as a manager ? .. I would say yes there is, so hopefully we see further improvements as the season progresses.
One thing is for sure, the players have not downed tools for him, if anything they have upped their game for a manager that was struggling somewhat ( granted there are 1 or 2 that have gone backwards ) .... but overall its good to see players backing a manager that was not exactly crushing it.
How can in game management be criticised when we come from behind so often? Surely something being changed is right.
Not every sub has to be made at 60 minutes or when a particular fan thinks so, against Fulham we had them against the wall between 60-80 minutes, they had the odd break away, why mess with that chance of getting a goal, we were on top at that time and a goal for martial or Greenwood would have done their confidence wonders. I agree with what Ole is doing.
Not every sub has to be made at 60 minutes or when a particular fan thinks so, against Fulham we had them against the wall between 60-80 minutes, they had the odd break away, why mess with that chance of getting a goal, we were on top at that time and a goal for martial or Greenwood would have done their confidence wonders. I agree with what Ole is doing.
Check mate...
I love these fans. We’ve been on a steady curve of progression for the past two years with a consistency coming into our gameplay and results. signings adding to the first 11 and team morale at a good high.This was tried to be put across a number of times by a number of fans to those crying Ole out but ignored and just refuted with made up headlines.
Oh well, Maybe learn that in future not all fans who disagree with you is not because they do not support the club but they can actually see development.
No offense because this isn't only directed at you, but I don't get how fans can be so certain about his game management. Do you guys have your coaching badges? If he consistently takes so long to make subs then he obviously has his reasons. And in recent times I can only think of one occasion where a player was on a yellow and got sent off before he could be subbed.
There have been a number of times he’s taken players off at half time.
we also have the highest number of goals after 90 minutes in the league - so it’s a strange criticism.
perhaps he’s just not as reactionary as some of the fans that criticise him!
Do you have coaching badges? Because if that's the requirement before we're allowed to criticise or debate the manager we may as well close the forum now.
Exactly
Love how no one is criticising Ole for not subbing off Pogba at half time after he picked up a yellow card..
Pogba was on a tight rope after getting one after 7 minutes. He was playing CM where Fred played against PSG.
Pogba was on a tight rope after getting one after 7 minutes. He was playing CM where Fred played against PSG.
I think many of the criticisms thrown at Ole are actually proving to be his strengths right now.
I don’t believe Ole “has no tactics” and “doesn’t coach the players” - in actual fact I think that’s a load of nonsense. However, what is clear is that he doesn’t issue meticulous and strict instructions like Pep, LvG or Jose, for example.
For many of our players, I think this has been a breath of fresh air and they have been able to express themselves. This squad is still similar in quality (and personnel) to squads coached by Jose and LvG but generally we look much more threatening, much happier and much more confident.
I don’t believe Ole “has no tactics” and “doesn’t coach the players” - in actual fact I think that’s a load of nonsense. However, what is clear is that he doesn’t issue meticulous and strict instructions like Pep, LvG or Jose, for example.
For many of our players, I think this has been a breath of fresh air and they have been able to express themselves. This squad is still similar in quality (and personnel) to squads coached by Jose and LvG but generally we look much more threatening, much happier and much more confident.
I mean...I’m very pro-Ole (I created this thread!) but that’s hardly a like-for-like comparison is it!
Fred should have been sent off in the first half and the referee had already given him more leeway than he could reasonably have expected. Plus, you have to be able to make tackles (and fouls) against a team like PSG if you’re playing CDM.
Pogba was on a yellow but it was a “standard” nothing yellow and would likely have been allowed at least one more foul before he was in serious danger of being sent off. Plus, he’s not really a tackler.
I'm not the one saying for certain whether he is right or wrong. It's fine to have an opinion, but it's arrogance to assume to know better.
How often does Pogba make clumsy tackles?
Playing in a 2 in midfield, you will have to break up play on the counter, there was a few times Pogba had to pull out of tackles in that game.
Pogba may not be a tackler but he does give away alot of fouls on the counter.
I find it somewhat funny when we criticize Ole for in-game management. Is it great? No, but it's not bad as well. If the side has 7 comeback wins in 19, and I think apart from the Leicester and Spurs game, we haven't really lost the lead in any game, you don't have sufficient data points to criticize him for that. Of course, some of the subs can be made earlier, but that's about it. If you want to compare his decision making with any random member on this forum, let's go to matchday threads, where people start moaning after every lineup announcement (and of course it should be much better as well).
Managers are going to get things wrong, even SAF didn't get everything right. But as long as these errors are quite few, I don't think it's a valid stick to beat him with.
Isn't that what you're doing though? You feel like you know better, or at least enough to try and silence debate around the manager. You're arrogantly trying to shut down arguments you don't like, even though you can't provide any evidence to the contrary.
Truth is no one on this forum know. Anecdotal evidence suggests Solksjaer is very slow to make changes in games. Obviously there are exceptions to that rule, but generally we do make late subs and that in turn means they rarely impact the game.
Solksjaer has faults, most managers do. While he has undoubtedly improved in a lot of areas, he isn't completely infallible.
Fred's was a unique situation where he really should have gotten a red card in the first half, so it was always likely that the ref would be quite happy to give him a second yellow. Even so I agreed with Ole trusting him to start the second half and play another 10 minutes or so, but he should have come off around the 55-60 minute mark.
Any old normal yellow card and the ref does the opposite - tries not to give the second unless it's really blatant. Obviously there's still a small element of risk but it's really not the same.