The 4-Way Draft : SF - 2mufc0 vs Enigma

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

....................................... TEAM 2MUFC0 ...................................................................................... TEAM ENIGMA .......................................



TEAM 2MUFC0


I will be going with the same tactic as the last round but welcome the legend Paolo Maldini to the team who comes straight in for an upgrade on Gentile. Maldini will play a similar role tucking in when we don't have the ball, but is a far superior player to Gentile when going forward and will be able to support Nedved more down the right hand side.

With this lineup i am looking at the way to get the best out of my two star players in defence and midfield Scirea and Platini. Looking at their career peaks was for Juve in the early 80's which ultimately led to European dominance in 1985 and for Scirea world dominance with Italy in 82, i have emulated the 'Zona Mista' tactic which was perfected by Giovanni Trapattoni.

Spoiler: Zona Mista

Zona mista (Italian pronunciation: [ˈdzɔːna ˈmista]; in English language: "Mixed Zone"), often referred to as Gioco all'italiana ("The Game in the Italian style"), is a tactic used in Italian association football mainly from the second half of 1970s to the mid-'90s. The introduction of this system has been attributed to Luigi Radice and Giovanni Trapattoni, then coaches of Torino and Juventus, respectively.[1] The tactic reached the highest sporting level with Trapattoni's Juventus becoming the first club in history to reach the European Treble having won the three seasonal UEFA competitions and, in 1985, the first European side to win the Intercontinental Cup since it was restructured since years before,[2] and the Italian national team, managed by Enzo Bearzot, which won the FIFA World Cup in 1982, for the first time since 1938, with outstanding participation from the Blocco-Juve;[3] making both teams between the greatest in sport's history.[4]

Regarded as the tactical evolution of catenaccio,[5] zona mista requires each outfield player to perform, systematically and simultaneously, the zonal marking and continuous attack on the spaces characteristic of totaalvoetbal, but also engaging in the defensive individual markingcharacteristic of Italian football. In this system, a player who moves out of his position is replaced by another from his team, thus retaining the team's intended organisational structure, and each player performs a different function. Several players, such as the libero, the wing-back (terzino fluidificante), the winger (ala tornante) and the box-to-box midfielder (mezzala) simultaneously play roles in both defense and attack, while the playmaker (regista/trequartista) (e.g. Michel Platini, Lothar Matthäus or Roberto Baggio) regularly runs to the opponents' box to try and score. This flexibility made it much more versatile, fluid and offensive than the rigid standard scheme used in Italy at the time.[5][6] Although it is one of the first to use four defenders, zona mista is aesthetically more related to formations which succeeded it: 3–5–2 and an asymmetric 4–3–3system.[7][8]

Zona mista proved highly successful at national and international level: with it, Torino won the 1975–76 Serie A, its first after the Superga air disaster; Juventus played some of its finest football ever, setting the most enduring record in the history of Italian football by winning six league titles and two cups in ten years.[9] Juventus then extended this success to the international arena, starting in 1977 when the club won the UEFA Cup without foreign footballers, an unprecedented achievement for any country's team.[10] Subsequently, it lifted the Cup Winners' Cup, the European Champions Cup, the UEFA Super Cup and the Intercontinental Cup, making it the first, and so far only, club to have won all possible official international competitions.[11] These achievements lifted the Serie A for the first time to the top of the confederation ranking at the end of the 1985–86 season, a position maintained for the following three seasons.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zona_mista

This system allows Scirea to orchestrate from the back (known as one of the best of all time in this respect) and Platini space in the middle able to create chances for the attackers and he will also be able to make runs into the box and score himself. One of his best qualities was bringing in goals from the no.10 position, he was Serie A top scorer for 3 seasons in a row, quite an accomplishment for an attacking midfielder in one of the best defensive leagues at the time.

Team overview:

GK: Oliver Kahn at his peak level he is probably around the top of the pile when it comes to GK's, winning the golden ball in WC2002 over the likes of R9, Rivaldo etc.
CB: Gaetano Scirea one of the best ball playing CB's off all time and one of Italy's finest.
CB: Jurgen Kohler considered by some Germany's best defender of all time.
RCB/RB: Paolo Maldini considered as one of the greatest defenders of all time and one of the most versatile.
LB: Antonio Cabrini one of one of the best LB's of all time.
B2B CM: Lothar Matthaus arguably the greatest CM of all time and probably the most complete, he will link defence with attack.
DM: Desailly one of the best midfield destroyers known for his tenacity and high work rate providing screening for the defence allowing Matthaus to get forward.
RW: Pavel Nedved on the left known for his incredible work rate combined with dribbling, shooting and passing going forward, will be the workhorse going up and down the right side
LW/LF: Zbigniew Boniek pacey and tricky forward and is famous for the great link up play he had with Platini which is recreated in this side, he will also have Cabrini making overlapping runs supporting him.
AM: Platini who needs no introduction.
ST: Upfront i have one of the best no. 9's in the history of the game Marco van Basten capable of scoring impossible goals and an allround CF. He will have world class service from the Platini/Boniek/Nedved

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TEAM ENIGMA

Formation: 4-3-3
Defensive line: Normal
Style: Counter attacking - direct style - high work rate

Players:

GK: Sepp Maier - One of the best keepers of all time. The man won it all in terms of team achievements - 4 Bundesliga titles, 3 back to back CL titles, WC, EURO. His individual achievement include - three times German player of the year - the most achieved by a goalkeeper in an era where German football was brimming with talent (Beckenbauer, Netzer, Vogts,Breitner, etc). German goalkeeper of the century, 1974 WC all star team and many more. Nicknamed "the cat" he was characteristic with his impossible saves and the ability to shut out opponent attackers.

LB: Giacinto Facchetti - Arguably the best left full back ever. His ability to man his own flank is essential to our wing play. He was strong, tall, elegant and imposing defender in his playing days, he rarely seemed to lose his cool. Revolutionized the full back position playing 634 official games and scoring 75 goals. He played for the Internazionale team remembered as La Grande Inter. Facchetti is remembered as one of the first truly great attacking-full backs. He would make marauding runs upfield using his wonderful dribbling and crossing. He also possessed wonderful stamina and scored important goals.

RB: Carlos Alberto - Regarded as one of the best full backs ever Carlos Alberto Torres was well one of the most iconic figures in the game scored one of the most famous goals ever witnessed in the game. He was the captain of the 1970 WC winning side playing sublime football and Alberto was the pinnacle of attacks playing as an attacking right back of the modern era. Alberto went on to earn 53 caps for the national side scoring an 8 goals by bombing forward and causing havoc as relentless attacking full back. Apart from his attacking output he was also a brilliant defender often playing as a CB for his club teams and winning everything under the sun.

CB: Albert Schesternyov - Probably the best central defender to come out of the Soviet Union. He was tall, fast and very physical defender who on top of that was an excellent man marker.

Libero: Franz Beckenbauer - A living legend on and off the pitch, Franz Anton Beckenbauer is commonly considered one of the greatest players of all time. At the pinnacle of his wonderful career Beckenbauer’s nickname was highly suitable, as he literally ruled the football world; ‘Kaiser Franz‘, as he was widely known across the globe, captained the first team to win consecutively the European Championship (in 1972) and the World Cup (two years later), uniting the two crowns for the first time ever (France and Spain have since done it).

In five consecutive major tournaments with the West German team he played four finals and one semifinal, winning two Ballon d’Ors.

CB: Héctor Chumpitaz - One of the finest defender coming from South America. Strong, imposing, and damn fast he was the pillar of Peru's best team ever, whilst also winning numerous personal accolades:
* 1969 Best Defender CONMEBOL
* 1971 Best Defender CONMEBOL
* 1973 All Stars CONMEBOL: Captain
* 2000 World Soccer's: The 100 Greatest Footballers of All Time
* 2004 South American - Player of the Century: Ranking Nº 35
* 2007 Midfield Dynamo's 10 Heroes of the Copa América
* 2007 Copa America All-Star team, all-time
* 2008 All Stars CONMEBOL in the last 50 years
* 2008 Defender all-time goalscoring: Ranking Nº 32

CM(B2B) - Willem Van Hanegem - a complete midfielder as it gets. Energetic, with enormous work rate and solid defensively. True leader on the pitch and one of the all time greats in his position, he was regarded as the engine behind Johan Cruyff's vision. As one of the few standout Feyenoord players in a team constituted by Ajax's style of play, Van Hanegem's impeccable passing skills and work rate have never been forgotten.

CM/Playmaker - Günter Netzer - Arguably the best German playmaker ever(quite an achievement considering the other candidates). With his long blonde hair immortalised by students of fashion as well as students of football, with his unforced genius in finding space – his and his team mates space – through exuberant movement and extravagant passing that was never wasteful or self-indulgent; and with the inherent flair that presented itself through audacious goals, Gunter Netzer did evoke the contradictory spirit of the Gods.

His technical accomplishments, his football intelligence, his thoughtful analysis of the numerous options available to a player – available to a gifted player, or to a renegade player at least – at any given split second on the football field, and his uncanny and awe-inspiring ability to execute them perfectly, left him immune to contrived, soulless football.

When it comes to discussing the finest midfielders of all time, the name of Gunter Netzer is often criminally overlooked. However, it is worth remembering that no player has single-handedly humiliated England at Wembley like the German did during a now legendary Euro '72 quarter-final first-leg clash in London. The then Borussia Monchengladbach playmaker ran the show from start to finish and capped a wonderful display with a late penalty in a thoroughly deserved 3-1 win.

Netzer maintained his majestic form in the semi-final and final; the Soviet Union could not get close to him as they were thrashed 3-0 in the Brussels showpiece.

RW: Jairzinho - "The Hurricane" was an amazing footballer, who at his peak formed a great partnership with Carlos Alberto producing one of the best WC performances from a player in 1970. Scoring over 250 goals in his career he was prolific and electrifying forward and man for the occasion.

SS: Eusébio - considered one of the greatest goalscorers ever, the "Black Panther" lit up the WC in 1966. Hard to imagine a more decisive player than him who turned the game against North Korea practically on his own with Portugal having their back to the wall and being 3-0 down. Eusebio's nine goals in England propelled Portugal to a third-place finish, and a succession of opposing teams simply had no answer to the power and pace of his play. Eusébio was the catalyst of the great Benfica side that was one of the best European teams in the early 60's.

CF: Denis Law - "The King" was a complete CF and probably the best strikers United had in their history. Denis was the showman supreme. He was more than a mere goal scorer whose cavalier thrusts and menacing darts brought panic to opposing defences. Law was an inspiration to those around him at club and country level and to younger generations of fans everywhere. Team-mates adored him, opponents feared him and fans revered him. He was a free spirit, an extrovert, a complete one-off, a rare combination of impudence and intelligence, class and clout. Denis Law is, was and always will be The King. He will form a truly complimentary partnership along with Eusebio, that has already happened back in 1963:

Spoiler: Denis Law against England in 1963 (by Joga Bonito)

Player roles:

GK: Sepp Maier - Excellent shot stopper, wall for opposing attackers.
LB: Giacinto Facchetti - Enthusiastic full back manning the whole flank and contributing in both phases
RB: Carlos Alberto - Like Facchetti on the other side, he'll be contributing in both phases and renewing his awesome partnership with Jairzinho.
CB: Hector Chumpitaz - complete CB who combines strength, pace and an excellent man marker.
CB: Albert Schesternyov - Physical defender and excellent man marker will take care of Van Basten both on the deck and in the air
Libero: Franz Beckenbauer - overload the midfield, track Platini's runs and generally neutralize the opposition attack
CM: Willem Van Hanegem - Box to box in his favorite role - the engine of the team.
CM: Netzer - The playmaker of the team, will be running the game with his exquisite passing game and vision.
RW: Jairzinho - Right winger in his 1970 role.
SS: Eusebio - second striker and free roaming forward, playing in free role and causing havoc in the opposition defence with pace, power and darting runs.
CF: Denis Law - Complete striker with top notch movement and excellent finishing

Key Points:
- Amazing defence consisting of two GOAT wing backs, the best defensive player in history in Beckenbauer complimented by a tall physical defender in Schesternyov and one of South America greats in Chumpitaz with Maier being the last line of defence.
- complimentary midfield full of grit, determination, engine and awesome playmaking ability in Netzer.
- Attack lead by two of the greatest goalscorers in the game in Eusebio and Law, whilst also having a proven right flank combo and Facchetti on the left.
- Very direct side capable of moving the ball very fast with Netzer/Hanegem and Beckenbauer able to find our attackers with pinpoint passes.
- Equally devastating both on the flanks and also through the middle.

Tactics: We have made some slight alterations to the team compared to last game with the sole purpose of having Schesternyov up against van Basten. Van Basten being great in the air and also 2mufc focal point in attack had to be taken care of personally.

In addition to that we have arguably the greatest defensive player in Beckenbauer who will be tracking Platini and also overloading the midfield when in possession.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

@2mufc0 @Enigma_87 All the best!

 

[MJJ]

Two strong teams, I think 20mufc is lined up better to deal with enigma than vice versa.

Maldini counters jairzinho cutting in while mufc midfield should dominate enigmas'. I see a slight mismatch if one of the Fullbacks push up to give width on the counter too.

2-1 mufc

 

[2mufc0]

Great team by @Enigma_87 and would be a great match.

But one place I think we can expose is his left side, Fachetti was a phenomenal player but he's not superman, especially against someone with a high work rate like Nedved down my right supported by Maldini. If one of his midfielders come down the left to help him that opens up space for Platini and Matthaus to exploit.

 

[Enigma_87]

Good luck @2mufc0 ! Same to you.

 

[Enigma_87]

Great team by @Enigma_87 and would be a great match.

But one place I think we can expose is his left side, Fachetti was a phenomenal player but he's not superman, especially against someone with a high work rate like Nedved down my right supported by Maldini. If one of his midfielders come down the left to help him that opens up space for Platini and Matthaus to exploit.

I think our left side shouldn't bet that much of an issue with only Nedved there tho.

You have Maldini at RB which he only started there in the beginning of his career but isn't really known for the overlapping full back to double on Facchetti.

 

[Enigma_87]

Two strong teams, I think 20mufc is lined up better to deal with enigma than vice versa.

Maldini counters jairzinho cutting in while mufc midfield should dominate enigmas'. I see a slight mismatch if one of the Fullbacks push up to give width on the counter too.

2-1 mufc

Maldini is playing on the right flank mate, so he won't be up against Jairzinho.

Jairzinho and Carlos Alberto will be up against Cabrini and given his attacking instructions they are likely to get some openings especially on the counter.

 

[MJJ]

Maldini is playing on the right flank mate, so he won't be up against Jairzinho.

Jairzinho and Carlos Alberto will be up against Cabrini and given his attacking instructions they are likely to get some openings especially on the counter.

Ahh my bad, change jairzinho to Eusebio then.

Yup, you will get some joy down that wing but Desailly kohler cabrini and boniek is a good stopping point. But I do see you scoring from that wing during the match though.

How do you plan on dealing with scirea stepping in midfield btw

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

but welcome the legend Paolo Maldini to the team who comes straight in for an upgrade on Gentile.

Don't get this. I'd rather have prime Gentile over a out of position Maldini. I get he's right footed and started his career at RB (having to move due to Tassotti), but his peak was on other flank. I can't really rate him at RB.

Libero: Franz Beckenbauer - overload the midfield, track Platini's runs and generally neutralize the opposition attack

Not of tactics, but purely on positioning in teamsheet, I'd rather place the libero's ahead of defence as their midfield contribution is what set them apart. Only pure sweepers like Picchi who literally sweep as the last man should be placed behind the D-line.

 

[harms]

Maldini counters jairzinho cutting

His opponent is Eusebio. edit: should've refreshed the page before posting

 

[Charly]

What a fantastic game ! I've been following this draft since it started and to me it seem both teams have become weaker than their last round teams. I have no idea why 2mufc0 changed Gentile into Maldini. If the way draft works is like football manager game where a player is weaker when out of position, then I don't think he can handle Eusebio at all. I think Maldini for all his defensive greatness had trouble against extremely fast or very good dribblers, Overmars, Brian Laudrup & Ronaldo all twisted Maldini. Eusebio was very much like Ronaldo, a fast paced dribbling genius who is going to dominate an out of position Maldini in my opinion.

I don't like that Enigma against the monster midfield of opposition has switched to 2 man midfield squandering a lot of initiative. I get why he has done it but I still don't like it. Overall I think Enigma's attack with Jairzinho against Cabrini and Eusebio / Law against Maldini, Scirea etc would bail him out in tight game 2-1.

 

[2mufc0]

R9 did in most defenders tbh and I do think it's overblown that Maldini struggles against dribblers, there are a few highlights of him getting put on his arse by R9 but these incidents were rare and because it happened to Maldini its made out to be a big issue and plastered all over YouTube.

As for his position, like the team sheet suggest he will be tucking in as the 3rd CB at times, it's the way the system works, and you can't really doubt his ability in central positions.

I can understand if you think he's out of position, fair enough, but it's stretching it to say he would be a liability there. At worst he would get the job done and keep the opposition attackers in check.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

At worst he would get the job done and keep the opposition attackers in check.

That's "at best" imo

Nah, I think @Charly is spot on. Rather have Gentile there. Proven partnership with Scirea is another points for Claudio.

 

[Ecstatic]

What a fantastic game ! I've been following this draft since it started and to me it seem both teams have become weaker than their last round teams. I have no idea why 2mufc0 changed Gentile into Maldini. If the way draft works is like football manager game where a player is weaker when out of position, then I don't think he can handle Eusebio at all. I think Maldini for all his defensive greatness had trouble against extremely fast or very good dribblers, Overmars, Brian Laudrup & Ronaldo all twisted Maldini. Eusebio was very much like Ronaldo, a fast paced dribbling genius who is going to dominate an out of position Maldini in my opinion.

I don't like that Enigma against the monster midfield of opposition has switched to 2 man midfield squandering a lot of initiative. I get why he has done it but I still don't like it. Overall I think Enigma's attack with Jairzinho against Cabrini and Eusebio / Law against Maldini, Scirea etc would bail him out in tight game 2-1.

Good to see a new poster interested in the drafts.

Hope you will participate in the next draft and make your own team.

 

[Charly]

Good to see a new poster interested in the drafts.

Hope you will participate in the next draft and make your own team.

Thanks man, I am still a newbie but we are doing our own thing with a sheep draft in newbie forum. Nearly not as many people interested in that though. You guys don't have access to that do you ? If you do you can join us in the little league while this draft is finishing.

 

[2mufc0]

Thanks man, I am still a newbie but we are doing our own thing with a sheep draft in newbie forum. Nearly not as many people interested in that though. You guys don't have access to that do you ? If you do you can join us in the little league while this draft is finishing.

Second what ecstatic said. Although your a newbie you can probably be an assistant for someone next time.

 

[Ecstatic]

Thanks man, I am still a newbie but we are doing our own thing with a sheep draft in newbie forum. Nearly not as many people interested in that though. You guys don't have access to that do you ? If you do you can join us in the little league while this draft is finishing.

Unfortunately, we don't have an access to the newbies forum.

Thanks anyway

 

[Ecstatic]

It would be less confusing to present Beckenbauer as a defensive midfielder IMO

 

[harms]

I don't like that Enigma against the monster midfield of opposition has switched to 2 man midfield squandering a lot of initiative. I get why he has done it but I still don't like it. Overall I think Enigma's attack with Jairzinho against Cabrini and Eusebio / Law against Maldini, Scirea etc would bail him out in tight game 2-1.

It's basically a three man midfield with Beckenbauer here. He'll come forward at ease, and more than Scirea, who still plays in a back 4.

Agree on Maldini/Gentile. While the former is undoubtedly a better player I'm not sure that putting him on the wrong side while also having a Scirea's proven partner Gentile as an option...


It was almost impossible to upgrade on his team (Kalle wasn't available, although anto will laugh at anyone who'll try to break Platini-Boniek combo), and Maldini/Cabrini switch was the only one that made sense. But then you can argue that as an expansive left back in zona mista Cabrini is better (or, at least, a better fit)...

 

[harms]

This is a tougher choice than I expected.

 

[idmanager]

Leaving the whole flank to players like Facchetti is brilliant in the early stages of the draft when you don't necessarily meet the best teams. Frees up positions and gives you more options/formations to exploit.
Feel they become a liability if used the same way in the latter stages of the draft. Although the defense looks really good and balanced, the rest of the team doesn't.
Probably an asymmetric formation leaves more gaps to be exploited than a symmetrical one.

 

[harms]

Leaving the whole flank to players like Facchetti is brilliant in the early stages of the draft when you don't necessarily meet the best teams. Frees up positions and gives you more options/formations to exploit.
Feel they become a liability if used the same way in the latter stages of the draft. Although the defense looks really good and balanced, the rest of the team doesn't.
Probably an asymmetric formation leaves more gaps to be exploited than a symmetrical one.

You think that wingbacks (and Facchetti is arguably the greatest of them all) at this stage are a liability? Especially when they are facing only a winger without an overlapping fullback.
Or have I misunderstood you?

 

[Physiocrat]

I actually like both changes. Maldini would excel in an RCB position - it's only out of position relative to where he was typically played, not his skill set. His defensive awareness doesn't disappear moving sides and since he was right footed at left back there'll be no reason why he wouldn't be good at right back. I also like the more 5 man defence of Enigma as it frees up Facchetti going forward and hence van Hanegem and Eusebio. I'll have to think about this a little more

 

[Gio]

Impressively stacked units although like @Charly says neither quite firing on all cylinders here.

Don't get this. I'd rather have prime Gentile over a out of position Maldini. I get he's right footed and started his career at RB (having to move due to Tassotti), but his peak was on other flank. I can't really rate him at RB.



Not of tactics, but purely on positioning in teamsheet, I'd rather place the libero's ahead of defence as their midfield contribution is what set them apart. Only pure sweepers like Picchi who literally sweep as the last man should be placed behind the D-line.

On Maldini, it's a bit odd but he was multi-faceted, a total footballer who was world-class at both full-back and centre-half, and was right footed, which all points to doing a good job there. I'd probably prefer a swap with Kohler to match up directly with Eusebio, but can see why 2mufc0 went for the FB/CB skillset there given the absence of a nominal RWB. On the flanks Enigma has the greater players but he's unfortunate that Facchetti and Alberto come up against two running machines who'll quell their attacking input.

Agree on the Kaiser's positioning. On first glance it looks like Platini is free to attack the defence and that Beckenbauer's default position is libero. I would generally expect the teamsheet to reflect a different situation if that is what is prescribed. So you only assume that Enigma's midfield looks lightweight all in all. A partnership of Van Hanegem and Netzer will struggle to cut the mustard against Desailly, Matthaus and Platini.

 

[Enigma_87]

Not of tactics, but purely on positioning in teamsheet, I'd rather place the libero's ahead of defence as their midfield contribution is what set them apart. Only pure sweepers like Picchi who literally sweep as the last man should be placed behind the D-line.

Generally a libero position is usually from deep coming into midfield, positioned on the formation graph. But seeing that many thing the midfield is lightweight and completely disregarding Kaiser's impact this is probably a better depiction of it:



If you can update the OP mate. Same role really but maybe a better depiction of leaving no gaps in midfield

 

[Enigma_87]

Leaving the whole flank to players like Facchetti is brilliant in the early stages of the draft when you don't necessarily meet the best teams. Frees up positions and gives you more options/formations to exploit.
Feel they become a liability if used the same way in the latter stages of the draft. Although the defense looks really good and balanced, the rest of the team doesn't.
Probably an asymmetric formation leaves more gaps to be exploited than a symmetrical one.

Generally in this draft I found it a bit odd the flak Facchetti got for manning his flank, given he'd probably the best player in history to do so. Even if you take Real's team Marcelo is usually manning the whole flank himself(being a hugely successful modern day team) with Ronaldo cutting in constantly and this is Facchetti who is also excellent defensively.

Sure a GOAT overlapping full back and winger combo would be pretty tough for anybody, but here he's facing only Nedved and he's covered when going forward by Chumpitaz, Beckenbauer and Schesternyov - hardly a lightweight defensive unit.

 

[Enigma_87]

You think that wingbacks (and Facchetti are arguably the greatest of them all) at this stage are a liability? Especially when they are facing only a winger without an overlapping fullback.
Or have I misunderstood you?

Indeed. Another example is Brazil 2002 when they had a Kleberson/Gilberto Silva midfield with Cafu/Roberto Carlos as wing backs.

Especially with der Kaiser in the libero position which connects the defence and midfield I'd say it's pretty solid unit to also set Carlos Alberto and Facchetti free.

 

[idmanager]

You think that wingbacks (and Facchetti is arguably the greatest of them all) at this stage are a liability? Especially when they are facing only a winger without an overlapping fullback.
Or have I misunderstood you?

Generally in this draft I found it a bit odd the flak Facchetti got for manning his flank, given he'd probably the best player in history to do so. Even if you take Real's team Marcelo is usually manning the whole flank himself(being a hugely successful modern day team) with Ronaldo cutting in constantly and this is Facchetti who is also excellent defensively.

Sure a GOAT overlapping full back and winger combo would be pretty tough for anybody, but here he's facing only Nedved and he's covered when going forward by Chumpitaz, Beckenbauer and Schesternyov - hardly a lightweight defensive unit.

My post was more from how it effects a voter's mindset. Hence the point w.r.t to stages of drafts.
You have teams reaching high levels of perfection. The smallest of things get noticed and one of the first types is assigning superman-ish roles to certain players, no matter how good they were.
Maybe he can pull it off. But that is not the point I am trying to make or dispute.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

My post was more from how it effects a voter's mindset. Hence the point w.r.t to stages of drafts.
You have teams reaching high levels of perfection. The smallest of things get noticed and one of the first types is assigning superman-ish roles to certain players, no matter how good they were.
Maybe he can pull it off. But that is not the point I am trying to make or dispute.

So you feel other voters, not yourself, are voting against Enigma because he has Facchetti on the flank by himself against Nedved on the flank by himself?
I am not seeing what you are saying.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Generally in this draft I found it a bit odd the flak Facchetti got for manning his flank, given he'd probably the best player in history to do so.

It is a little strange as Facchetti as a one man flank dominator has often been accepted without question in other drafts. I'm not quite sure why opinion has shifted this time, especially given that Eusebio and van Hanegem are both notably effective on the left wing and left channels.

 

[idmanager]

So you feel other voters, not yourself, are voting against Enigma because he has Facchetti on the flank by himself against Nedved on the flank by himself?
I am not seeing what you are saying.

I think Facchetti and superman has been mentioned 2 games continuously. Its not unrealistic to assume it might be having a say on few votes.
Of course, no way to surely know unless people comment on what made them vote for whom (which I feel should be made mandatory for drafts going forward for the vote to count. Would bring more discussion in).

Personally, I did count it as a weakness, even in 1 vs 1 scenario, just because there is always a chance of getting caught out of position or losing the ball due to someone else's mistake leading to a quick counter.

 

[idmanager]

It is a little strange as Facchetti as a one man flank dominator has often been accepted without question in other drafts. I'm not quite sure why opinion has shifted this time, especially given that Eusebio and van Hanegem are both notably effective on the left wing and left channels.

I obviously do not know what has been the trend with Faccheti and his role in drafts over here on the caf, but it has to be kept in mind that players even of the ilk of Facchetti wouldn't have faced such teams day in day out.
That is where their effectiveness gets diluted if you leave them in the superman or flank dominator role.
As I said, earlier in the draft when you face relatively weaker teams, its a great strength to have. Later on, without the right support, maybe not.

I also think the updated formation from @Enigma_87 makes more sense and the attacking minded liberos should always be positioned there.

 

[Ecstatic]

I think Facchetti and superman has been mentioned 2 games continuously. Its not unrealistic to assume it might be having a say on few votes.
Of course, no way to surely know unless people comment on what made them vote for whom (which I feel should be made mandatory for drafts going forward for the vote to count. Would bring more discussion in).

Personally, I did count it as a weakness, even in 1 vs 1 scenario, just because there is always a chance of getting caught out of position or losing the ball due to someone else's mistake leading to a quick counter.

As you can see in these drafts, Fachetti is a sacrosanct icon for some posters.

Fachetti makes more sense in a system with 3 players comfortable in central defence.

As far as I'm concerned, I've voted for 2mufc0 because he has players more concerned about defensive tasks and would win the battle midfield.

I can see Boniek & Nedved playing between the lines. Powerful team really.

 

[Enigma_87]

My post was more from how it effects a voter's mindset. Hence the point w.r.t to stages of drafts.
You have teams reaching high levels of perfection. The smallest of things get noticed and one of the first types is assigning superman-ish roles to certain players, no matter how good they were.
Maybe he can pull it off. But that is not the point I am trying to make or dispute.

It's hardly a superman-ish role in this sense tho with him in even more free role compared to previous games with the inclusion of Schesternyov.

It's a modern wing back role which has seen a lot of lesser players handle pretty well. Yes of course here we have an all time draft, but he's one of the all time best in his position.

 

[idmanager]

As you can see in these drafts, Fachetti is a sacrosanct icon for some posters.

Fachetti makes more sense in a system with 3 players comfortable in central defence.

As far as I'm concerned, I've voted for 2mufc0 because he has players more concerned about defensive tasks and would win the battle midfield.

I can see Boniek & Nedved playing between the line. Powerful team really.

Agreed. Most important thing in my opinion.
The difference between Grande Inter setup and this lineup is the kind of sweeper.
Facchetti is weaker because you have a Kaiser sort of player instead of Picchi.
Leaves enough holes with less balance.

I think players like Facchetti and Carlos are best used in Zona Mista where you have a limited RB capable of performing as a RCB, with none of the CB's too interested in joining the midfield battle in the libero role. That setup gives them a platform to perform at their best.

1 man flank dominator + Libero is not a good idea IMO.

 

[Enigma_87]

It is a little strange as Facchetti as a one man flank dominator has often been accepted without question in other drafts. I'm not quite sure why opinion has shifted this time, especially given that Eusebio and van Hanegem are both notably effective on the left wing and left channels.

Yeah indeed. Van Hanegem on his own loved that left channel and Eusebio as inside left would provide plenty of support in attack.

To me when you have Facchetti you have to give him freedom and space to own that flank, not only because it was basically what he did all the time at club and NT but also given his playing style.

 

[Enigma_87]

Agreed. Most important thing in my opinion.
The difference between Grande Inter setup and this lineup is the kind of sweeper.
Facchetti is weaker because you have a Kaiser sort of player instead of Picchi.
Leaves enough holes with less balance.

I think players like Facchetti and Carlos are best used in Zona Mista where you have a limited RB capable of performing as a RCB, with none of the CB's too interested in joining the midfield battle in the libero role. That setup gives them a platform to perform at their best.

1 man flank dominator + Libero is not a good idea IMO.

There are a lot of differences between this and Grande Inter mate. First of all we're playing with two wing backs, whilst Grande Inter had 1 wing back(Facchetti) and a high work rate winger ala Nedved in 2mufc0's team. Then we have the best libero at the job in Beckenbauer who will move through the lines, whilst Picchi was more of a sweeper - staying back.

Then you have hard working forwards in Law, Eusebio and Jairzinho, but also Jairzinho/Carlos Alberto flank where we can do damage, compared to a much more lesser in attacking sense la Grande Inter right winger.

Teams when attacking usually have three men in the back. Here we will most likely have the same with Netzer/Beckenbauer alternating in possession.

Our team is set for counter attack and Facchetti/Carlos Alberto are perfectly capable of shutting down space on the flank(especially Facchetti given he's only up against Nedved) whilst quickly transitioning in attack when we get the ball back.

 

[idmanager]

There are a lot of differences between this and Grande Inter mate. First of all we're playing with two wing backs, whilst Grande Inter had 1 wing back(Facchetti)

Never said you were playing Grande Inter. But Facchetti flank dominance was best demonstrated in that setup. I was just drawing parallels.
The RWB playing doesn't help for covering Fachetti's tracks if both him and Kaiser are in the attack.

Then we have the best libero at the job in Beckenbauer who will move through the lines, whilst Picchi was more of a sweeper - staying back.

Yes, that was my whole point. A Picchi sort of a sweeper would have been a better choice instead of a Libero. You wouldn't have to worry about Van Hanegem in a 2 man midfield to help out Fachetti against probably the best midfield 3 I have seen in this draft.

 

[Gio]

Never said you were playing Grande Inter. But Facchetti flank dominance was best demonstrated in that setup. I was just drawing parallels.
The RWB playing doesn't help for covering Fachetti's tracks if both him and Kaiser are in the attack.

I'd assume Carlos Alberto and Beckenbauer are intelligent enough to ensure there is sufficient defensive cover. Fairly basic stuff to know that they would not all push on at the same time, and both Facchetti and Carlos Alberto are comfortable defending into more central areas.

Think Facchetti/Eusebio is hard to beat as a left flank in an all-time setting. Being super-picky the right-footed Facchetti and the right-footed Eusebio might both end up attacking the inside-left channel, but both were fantastic - Eusebio especially - at going round the outside of the full-back, which would create great opportunities for the underlap.

 

[antohan]

I gather/assume both teams are based on a given date of birth period? Seems that was a good way to go given the embarrassment of riches.

On @2mufc0 side I don't have an issue with Maldini. It looks wrong, but he will be absolutely fine. I'm a bit more concerned about the frontline if we are talking about replicas here: you don't have Nedved but a second striker that works wide channels effectively. That's what constantly created the gaps Platini exploited (not just at Juve but for France), so there's a question mark there for me.

On @Enigma_87 there's a greater mish-mash of styles going. I can see how everyone is capable of (or excels at) doing their job but I couldn't really tell if that backline would work well and Jairzinho looks like a spare wheel there for some reason I can't quite put my finger on. Jointly similar question marks/noises as the far more concrete Platini one above.

Oddly, it's precisely the Nedved inclusion that tilts the balance for me. Enigma's midfield is lightweight and unprepared to deal with Platini, Matthäus and Nedved. At the very least they convert Kaiser into a full-time overflowed DM. That in turn makes it a Shesternyov-Chumpitaz CB pair, which suddenly doesn't look particularly awesome to deal with Marco van Basten and Zibi Boniek.

@2mufc0 will perform and win this, despite @Enigma_87 looking more attractive on paper.