The Americas Draft

[Chesterlestreet]

Again, my apologies to you and @oneniltothearsenal for delaying the start. My players and our staff were eager to get this started, but our plane couldn't take off due to bad weather.

No problem, man - these things happen in the crazy world of (fantasy) football.

Match is up now.

 

[Enigma_87]

Any special rules for the final reinforcement round @Chesterlestreet or proceed like always?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Any special rules for the final reinforcement round @Chesterlestreet or proceed like always?

Well - that's up to the people, really.

What's been mooted as a possibility is to allow the R1/R2 boys back into the reinforcement pool.

The feedback so far has been along the lines of "nay" - but said feedback has been very limited.

If I don't hear a distinct voice in favour of changing the basic format, it won't be changed - and both teams are limited to picking ONE additional player from the losing squads (plus possible unpicked ones) before the final.

In the interest of moving things along swiftly, I won't wait very long before simply making a call. The default option is right there - and will be used unless people make their views known fairly quickly.

 

[Enigma_87]

Well - that's up to the people, really.

What's been mooted as a possibility is to allow the R1/R2 boys back into the reinforcement pool.

The feedback so far has been along the lines of "nay" - but said feedback has been very limited.

If I don't hear a distinct voice in favour of changing the basic format, it won't be changed - and both teams are limited to picking ONE additional player from the losing squads (plus possible unpicked ones) before the final.

In the interest of moving things along swiftly, I won't wait very long before simply making a call. The default option is right there - and will be used unless people make their views knows fairly quickly.

Aye I'm not big fan with changes midway through as well. We can try it in next drafts I suppose but wanted to check it with you.

 

[Theon]

As a spectator I'd vote to open the final reinforcement up to the whole pool, as I think the final teams will be more interesting. Plus given its an All-Time South American draft I'm in favour of a few more of the top boys featuring.

I can see it both ways though.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

As a spectator I'd vote to open the final reinforcement up to the whole pool, as I think the final teams will be more interesting. Plus given its an All-Time South American draft I'm in favour of a few more of the top boys featuring.

I can see it both ways though.

That's what I'm thinking too. Maybe.

Then again, perhaps the match-up as such will be interesting enough.

I'll leave it open for now - let's hear some more views.

Meanwhile, @oneniltothearsenal and @Enigma_87 slash @Joga Bonito may settle on a date for the final.

 

[mazhar13]

I'd rather leave the pool as it is. We've seen enough of the players in the first two rounds in other drafts. It's time for some of the lesser-known players to shine.

 

[antohan]

Well - that's up to the people, really.

What's been mooted as a possibility is to allow the R1/R2 boys back into the reinforcement pool.

The feedback so far has been along the lines of "nay" - but said feedback has been very limited.

If I don't hear a distinct voice in favour of changing the basic format, it won't be changed - and both teams are limited to picking ONE additional player from the losing squads (plus possible unpicked ones) before the final.

In the interest of moving things along swiftly, I won't wait very long before simply making a call. The default option is right there - and will be used unless people make their views known fairly quickly.

You never change rules halfway through a draft.

 

[Theon]

I'd rather leave the pool as it is. We've seen enough of the players in the first two rounds in other drafts. It's time for some of the lesser-known players to shine.

Meh don't really think it's that different really and the earlier rounds have presumably let those players shine IMO.

oneniltothearsenal drafting in V. Andrade to toughen up his left flank is good and all, but it's not that interesting really and I'd prefer to see Falcao added to that midfield, or Romario getting on the end of Zico's passes.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I'd prefer it to be left as it is fwiw.

 

[Theon]

I'd prefer it to be left as it is fwiw.

Yeah, to be fair opening the pool back up would definitely benefit him more than you.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I found the reinforcement stages really interesting with the current restrictions in place. Far too often, we've seen people ignore correcting the weaknesses in their side, and just draft in the shiniest names available and try to ride on said players coattails. This draft seemed more measured and linear in terms of the sides development with the reinforcements augmenting their sides finely, with their tactical impact and their individualistic impact in fine balance. Definitely a breath of fresh air as opposed to seeing a side that is featuring in a final, look and feel drastically different, from what it looked like in the initial drafting phase, with a couple of big names thrown in etc.

Yeah, to be fair opening the pool back up would definitely benefit him more than you.

And there is that too. We'd have definitely approached the reinforcement rounds differently if we'd known that the pool would open up for the final round.

 

[Enigma_87]

Meh don't really think it's that different really and the earlier rounds have presumably let those players shine IMO.

oneniltothearsenal drafting in V. Andrade to toughen up his left flank is good and all, but it's not that interesting really and I'd prefer to see Falcao added to that midfield, or Romario getting on the end of Zico's passes.

I'm generally not fond of changes throughout the draft as anto mentioned for the sole reason than you plan in accordance to the pool and strengthen the positions you need based on that.

 

[Enigma_87]

@oneniltothearsenal when do you want to play the game next week mate?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Meh don't really think it's that different really and the earlier rounds have presumably let those players shine IMO.

oneniltothearsenal drafting in V. Andrade to toughen up his left flank is good and all, but it's not that interesting really and I'd prefer to see Falcao added to that midfield, or Romario getting on the end of Zico's passes.

Yeah, I agree with all of that.

But fair enough - let's just crack on. I predict a non-feisty final, but what can you do.

onenil - obviously - picks V. Andrade.

@Enigma_87 @Joga Bonito Just pick someone at your earliest convenience (no deadline).

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

@oneniltothearsenal when do you want to play the game next week mate?

Updated

Mon , Tues and Wed are best

Sat is possible option

Thurs and Fri I cannot do this week

 

[Enigma_87]

Updated

Mon , Tues and Wed are best

Sat is possible option

Thurs and Fri I cannot do this week

Let's do it Monday then.

@Chesterlestreet we will pick shortly

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Let's do it Monday then.

@Chesterlestreet we will pick shortly

Do you want to do a single neutral location match?

Or an old school South American Home and Away tie?

If you wanted to play with a two match tie I'd let you pick which you wanted home, first or second. I realize this is mostly just for imagination but it would be fun for me to imagine if you picked which.

My home would obviously be the Maracanã just to let you know before picking

 

[antohan]

Do you want to do a single neutral location match?

Or an old school South American Home and Away tie?

If you wanted to play with a two match tie I'd let you pick which you wanted home, first or second. I realize this is mostly just for imagination but it would be fun for me to imagine if you picked which.

My home would obviously be the Maracanã just to let you know before picking

Love it.

Sounds a bit creepy too. You are not playing with yourself, are you?

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Love it.

Sounds a bit creepy too. You are not playing with yourself, are you?

Always. I learned chess by playing against myself

 

[Enigma_87]

Do you want to do a single neutral location match?

Or an old school South American Home and Away tie?

If you wanted to play with a two match tie I'd let you pick which you wanted home, first or second. I realize this is mostly just for imagination but it would be fun for me to imagine if you picked which.

My home would obviously be the Maracanã just to let you know before picking

Final should always be played as a one game for me. It's historically the way to go. You can't have the same excitement knowing you have a return leg


Maracana is probably the greatest venue for SA game so it makes sense the game to be played there

 

[Enigma_87]

Enigma/Joga 1. M.Garrincha (BRA) 2. J.Zanetti (ARG) 3. D.Godin (URU) 4. Zito (BRA) 5. Ruben Sosa (URU) 6. J. Veron (ARG) 7. M.Kempes (ARG) 8. A. Ancheta (URU) 9. Branco (BRA) 10. L. Mazurkiewicz (URU) 11. F. Morena (URU) 12. M. Á. Brindisi (ARG) 13. S. Agüero (ARG) 14. Juan Mujica (URU) 15. Zizinho (BRA) 16. A. Erico (PAR) 17. A. Vidal (CHI) 18. O.Ruggeri (ARG) 19. Juan Joya (PER)

oneniltothearsenal 1. Zico (BRA) 2. Domingos Da Guia (BRA) 3. Socrates (BRA) 4. Leonel Sánchez (CHI) 5. Eyzaguirre (CHI) 6. Careca (BRA) 7. R. Marcos (CHI) 8. Júlio César da Silva (BRA) 9. Marinho Chagas (BRA) 10. Yearwood (HON) 11. Gilmar (BRA) 12. Gilberto Silva (BRA) 13. Quinonez (ECU) 14. Ignacio Prieto (CHI) 15. Paolo Montero (URU) 16. Toninho Cerezo (BRA) 17. Gambetta (URU) 18. Alexis Sanchez (CHI) 19. V. Andrade (URU)

 

[harms]

Meh, the obvious choice for a home arena isn't Maracana, it's Estadio Hernando Siles, if you have a more physical side and, ideally, a few Bolivian players

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Christ...as if facing Garrincha wasn't bad enough . Great choice.

 

[antohan]

Meh, the obvious choice for a home arena isn't Maracana, it's Estadio Hernando Siles, if you have a more physical side and, ideally, a few Bolivian players

The latter. A physical side is no use up there as they get wasted. Very much the opposite, you need good passing and for the ball to do all the running for you.

 

[harms]

The latter. A physical side is no use up there as they get wasted. Very much the opposite, you need good passing and for the ball to do all the running for you.

Well, not physical, but physically adapted to those unique conditions I meant.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Christ...as if facing Garrincha wasn't bad enough . Great choice.

Cheers, we always had our eyes on reuniting Joya-Spencer to accompany Garrincha right from the start, but Garrincha-Erico-Joya definitely does get the juices flowing

 

[Enigma_87]

Meh, the obvious choice for a home arena isn't Maracana, it's Estadio Hernando Siles, if you have a more physical side and, ideally, a few Bolivian players

Good that we didn't pick Ando -he will need another gas tank for that game if he's to feature.

You can't beat 200 000 atmosphere at the Maracana.

Christ...as if facing Garrincha wasn't bad enough . Great choice.

Thanks, mate. Yeah we hold Joya in very high regard. Joya/Erico is the closest to Joya/Spencer we could get as well.

Happy to get him, it's very close to what I've imagined as a best side we could put up from the beginning of the draft having in mind the restrictions.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Meh, the obvious choice for a home arena isn't Maracana, it's Estadio Hernando Siles, if you have a more physical side and, ideally, a few Bolivian players

Bah i dont have Marco Etcheverry and the Spiderman Otilino Tenorio

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I am happy that I am facing Erico and Joya. They are both pre-footage players. Just like Gambetta and Domingos.

This offers some unique issues though. I know many diehards that don't even attempt to rank and rate pre-footage players because all too often, written pieces end up as puff pieces and same nationalities, leagues and clubs pumping their own players up to hype.

Without some objective reference point all too often someone with publicity can make anyone seem like a god or elevate a single game's performance into mythology of oral history.

Offensive players like Joya and Erico typically get plaudits in press. Hopefully the plaudits and multi generations praise of the greatest defender on the pitch, Domingos Da Guia also gets appreciated.

 

[Tuppet]

Joya is hardly pre footage tbh, Penarol's big matches from that era are mostly available on youtube.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

Joya is hardly pre footage tbh, Penarol's big matches from that era are mostly available on youtube.

Aye, there's a decent amount of footage available of him. It made it all the more mystifying to me that I found it so hard to find much on Pavoni who was born 9 years later.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Joya is hardly pre footage tbh, Penarol's big matches from that era are mostly available on youtube.

That's true. I did notice researching this draft that some 60s footage has been cleaned up a bit and looks better than it used to. Its still much more limited. Also, some of the poorer older clips were really bad with the white noise and graphics oddities.

 

[harms]

There is enough footage of Joya to understand what kind of player he was, combined with the stories and credentials.

Erica is a tough one but he was so unique that the tales about him are often very specific, which is good when you're trying to understand what kind of player he was. He is one of those players I really, really wanted to see though, he sounds like Ibra on steroids without the playmaking though.

 

[Theon]

He sounds like Ibra on steroids without the playmaking though.

What does that even mean..?

Not sure how he is Ibra on steroids either tbh.

If you take away the playmaking aspect then you're losing one of the most significant traits that makes Ibra distinctive. At 6 ft 5 and 210 lbs the second most significant aspect would be his size and physical strength, but most sources put Erico at around 5 ft 6 to 5 ft 8 so it doesn't seem like there are any real similarities there either.

 

[harms]

What does that even mean..?

Not sure how he is Ibra on steroids either tbh.

If you take away the playmaking aspect then you're losing one of the most significant traits that makes Ibra distinctive. At 6 ft 5 and 210 lbs the second most significant aspect would be his size and physical strength, but most sources put Erico at around 5 ft 6 to 5 ft 8 so it doesn't seem like there are any real similarities there either.

Have you even read about him? I think my analogy is pretty clear. Ibra on steroids is a tongue in cheek description, considering who is back, but his outstanding and inventive finishing technique is one of the main points of every article about him (especially the scorpion kick), and Ibra will be remembered in history first and foremost as a scorer of tons of impossible goals.

His aerial game was also amazing - and considerably better than Ibra's, from what I can gather - it wasn't because of his height, but because of his enormous leap and acrobatic ability. Plus his goalscoring stats are simply better, although we have to count too many variables when we are comparing leagues and eras

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Scorpion kicks? I'll take Zico there over Erico

Zico has some nice scorpion goals that are truth not myth:



Also, Socrates is almost impossible to win the ball from

Also, @harms Erico's goal scoring record is against incredibly weak opposition. Defenses in Argentina in that era were atrocious. Zico's goal scoring record in his era and with his documented footage is just

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Joya's goal scoring record isn't exactly great. 107 goals in 243 games. You'd want to have a lot of supplementary material on a player whose stats won't swing it for him.

 

[Theon]

Have you even read about him? I think my analogy is pretty clear. Ibra on steroids is a tongue in cheek description, considering who is back, but his outstanding and inventive finishing technique is one of the main points of every article about him (especially the scorpion kick), and Ibra will be remembered in history first and foremost as a scorer of tons of impossible goals.

His aerial game was also amazing - and considerably better than Ibra's, from what I can gather - it wasn't because of his height, but because of his enormous leap and acrobatic ability. Plus his goalscoring stats are simply better, although we have to count too many variables when we are comparing leagues and eras

The analogy isn't clear at all - you've compared him to someone that he shares literally no real similarities to in terms of physique or play style, other than that they potentially both did a scorpion kick that one time. Okay.

If his aerial game is great and way better than Ibra's that's fine, but I'm not sure that argument lends itself to the comparison. It doesn't sound like he was in any way similar to Ibrahimovic as a player.

 

[harms]

Also, @harms Erico's goal scoring record is against incredibly weak opposition. Defenses in Argentina in that era were atrocious. Zico's goal scoring record in his era and with his documented footage is just

Leave it to the match thread
And I wasn't comparing Erico to Zico anyway, it's clear who is the better player out of the two