The centre-forward market...

Walters_19_MuFc

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I get what you’re saying but Sir Alex always believed to compete on all fronts in the league, the league cup, the FA cup and CL you need a set of four strikers. I think even if we play one up top we need at least 4 that can comfortably play up top. I think we already have two and need another two.
That's because Sir Alex used to play with two up top. Nowadays, you typically wouldn't find a team who have four strikers if they use a system that utilities one striker.
 

Messier1994

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That's because Sir Alex used to play with two up top. Nowadays, you typically wouldn't find a team who have four strikers if they use a system that utilities one striker.
In any event, I think we must have three strikers — not — including Rashford.

The lone striker is the most sub’ed position. You need one striker on the field and one on the bench.

Rashford will start to the left for us even if Martial is starting at the top. Some games, we could of course always take out Martial and put Rashford at striker, but that is conditional on him not needing to be subbed too. We should have a striker on the bench when starting all games — at least as long as we don’t have multiple injuries.

It would be very surprising if Martial is healthy for a 5 month 3 game a week schedule. Like who would be surprised if he is healthy for only 3-4 weeks out of that 5 month period? It’s definitely not overly cautious to get two strikers in January.

If that is the best option for our long term plans, is another story.
 

footballbite

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So, genuine January options? Gakpo, Depay, Thuram?
Thuram has an impressive recent goal record, but his main asset seems to be his pace, whereas his hold up play and close control isn't that good.

It seems he'd thrive in a counter-attacking team where he can stretch his legs and make runs in behind, and also the Bundesliga where they often play with high defensive lines. Not sure he'd really suit the current Utd side which often has to break down a low block.

Does anyone know why he always gets picked for the France squad ahead of Dembele? From what I've seen of Dembele he seems to have a more solid all-round game, but maybe isn't as eye-catching as Thuram. Could the fact that Thuram is playing in a slightly stronger league be behind it? I'm aware Dembele hasn't really got started this season
 

Walters_19_MuFc

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In any event, I think we must have three strikers — not — including Rashford.

The lone striker is the most sub’ed position. You need one striker on the field and one on the bench.

Rashford will start to the left for us even if Martial is starting at the top. Some games, we could of course always take out Martial and put Rashford at striker, but that is conditional on him not needing to be subbed too. We should have a striker on the bench when starting all games — at least as long as we don’t have multiple injuries.

It would be very surprising if Martial is healthy for a 5 month 3 game a week schedule. Like who would be surprised if he is healthy for only 3-4 weeks out of that 5 month period? It’s definitely not overly cautious to get two strikers in January.

If that is the best option for our long term plans, is another story.
City - Haaland, Alvarez
Liverpool - Nunez, Firmino
Arsenal - Jesus, Nketiah
Spurs - Kane, Richarlison? (more of a wide forward)
Chelsea - Aubameyang, Broja
Man United - Martial, New Striker

I could continue..........

We can't go into next season assuming that Martial will be injured, because if he's fit all of next season, then having three specialist strikers, as mentioned before, is overkill. If that's the assumption we are going to make; however, then we should get rid of Martial and buy two new strikers, which I can't see happening.

We have players, as do the teams above, who can do a job in the forward position if/when needed.
 

NoPace

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That's an underwhelming collection of players. Only Toney is on the required level, but he's out of question at the moment.

Don't know enough about Thuram and Pedro, maybe they have enough potential.
I mean that's sort of the point. Immobile would have been an underwhelming signing coming from a failed Dortmund move in 2016. But over the last 6 years, I bet only Messi, Cristiano, Lewandowski, Kane and Salah have more goals in the Big 5 leagues, unless I'm forgetting someone. Obviously guys like Suarez and Benzema and Aguero were better, but Aguero didn't last the whole time and Suarez got old too. Those would have been 3-4 year signings with no resale value. Same for Cavani and probably another 2-3 guys who scored from like 2016-2019 and then tailed off.

Weirdly, looking back, Lukaku wasn't that terrible a signing even though it obviously failed, in that he scored some goals and we sold him for about what we paid, just overpaid wages for a 15 goal striker who struggled at everything else, which is probably below the acceptable line for a good team of being a 20 goal striker who is bad at everything else, which would be a 7/10 type result and not so bad, even if it inevitably hurts you in big games. But we're really more in the stage of needing to be good enough to play in big games anyways, not worried about winning a CL but making the QF and being top 2-3 in the league again.

Vardy, Giroud, Morata, Lukaku, Lautaro Martinez, Dzeko, Aubemayang, Firmino, Zlatan, Gerard Moreno, Ben Yedder - and for me because of his pressing, Gabi Jesus - and seem to round out the list of strikers we'd be at least miserable with as our #9s the last 5-6 years.

So that's a list of only 19 players, though I'm probably missing some. Of that 19, 14 or so are least 31 years old and some much older. If you take off the guys already proven as of 5-6 years ago (Messi, Cristiano, Lewandowski, Kane, Benzema, Zlatan, Aubameyang, Suarez, Aguero and Dzeko) you've basically got 10 guys of whom half would have been seen as deeply underwhelming or at least flash in a pan (Vardy) type signings:

Immobile, Vardy, Giroud, Salah, Firmino, Moreno, Ben Yedder

and then young future stars in Lukaku, Morata and Lautaro.

TLDR: The year we signed Lukaku, for example, we'd have had a better chance of having 5 years of good production at #9 by signing someone unfashionable. I have no idea if. that means which one Memphis, Pedro, Embolo or Calvert-Lewin will be the next Immobile or Ben Yedder, but if we're resigned to accepting there's no tier 1 striker available or if there is we can't sign him, someone like that or a currently struggling striker like Havertz, Unal, (Werner if he hadn't just moved) might have a better chance of success.
 
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NoPace

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In any event, I think we must have three strikers — not — including Rashford.

The lone striker is the most sub’ed position. You need one striker on the field and one on the bench.

Rashford will start to the left for us even if Martial is starting at the top. Some games, we could of course always take out Martial and put Rashford at striker, but that is conditional on him not needing to be subbed too. We should have a striker on the bench when starting all games — at least as long as we don’t have multiple injuries.

It would be very surprising if Martial is healthy for a 5 month 3 game a week schedule. Like who would be surprised if he is healthy for only 3-4 weeks out of that 5 month period? It’s definitely not overly cautious to get two strikers in January.

If that is the best option for our long term plans, is another story.
Things look balanced if Sancho goes and we sign a #9, a versatile forward like Gapko who might be able to play centrally and just give Pellistri or Amad a chance:

ST - #9, Martial, Gapko
LW - Rashford, Gapko, Garnacho
RW - Antony, Pellistri/Amad

That's basically 6 guys for 3 spots plus a backup RW getting the occasional game.

Alternative is signing a Choupo-Moting type to be the 3rd striker for cheap, like a Cyle Larin (great record for Canada, would be cheap) or Vincent Janssen or a guy putting up numbers in a weaker league, and hope they do a decent job and are happy to play when they can, score goals in the cups and maybe provide something off the bench or play for 60 minutes at times when say Martial is hurt and our new starting #9 is playing 3-4 days before and after.
 

Messier1994

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City - Haaland, Alvarez
Liverpool - Nunez, Firmino
Arsenal - Jesus, Nketiah
Spurs - Kane, Richarlison? (more of a wide forward)
Chelsea - Aubameyang, Broja
Man United - Martial, New Striker

I could continue..........

We can't go into next season assuming that Martial will be injured, because if he's fit all of next season, then having three specialist strikers, as mentioned before, is overkill. If that's the assumption we are going to make; however, then we should get rid of Martial and buy two new strikers, which I can't see happening.

We have players, as do the teams above, who can do a job in the forward position if/when needed.
Fair point, and like to some extent, we should be able to predict how healthy Martial will be. ETH has alluded to something of that affect, there is a reason you get injured. What is that reason? Can it be fixed? Either it can’t or it can.

Of course freak injuries, impact injuries, can happen to anyone. But these nagging stuff that never seem to get away, we should have better track of that and be able to predict better how many games a player have in him.
 

croadyman

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So, genuine January options? Gakpo, Depay, Thuram?

Then a proper striker in the summer?
I want that to happen,however still have this niggling feeling he has plans to try and convert Gakpo into that number 9.
 

Frank Grimes

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Can't believe there's people who want Depay back, no thanks.

Gakpo is a good finisher but I'm not sure his profile is too dissimilar to Rashford or Garnacho, is he really needed?

Personally I wouldn't be adverse to keeping our powder dry if it meant getting Osimhen in summer. If we could get a player in to cover Martial in some loan deal until then I'd be happy, Welbeck would be perfect but Brighton will never let him leave.
 

croadyman

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Can't believe there's people who want Depay back, no thanks.

Gakpo is a good finisher but I'm not sure his profile is too dissimilar to Rashford or Garnacho, is he really needed?

Personally I wouldn't be adverse to keeping our powder dry if it meant getting Osimhen in summer. If we could get a player in to cover Martial in some loan deal until then I'd be happy, Welbeck would be perfect but Brighton will never let him leave.
Yeah I'm not averse to loan deal but seems absolutely zero interest whatsoever
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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Why I'm not sure if Gakpo is what we actually need.

ST - #9, Martial, Rashford
LW - Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Garnacho
RW - Antony, Sancho, Amad

Assume if Sancho is able to perform decent at least.
 

NoPace

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Why I'm not sure if Gakpo is what we actually need.

ST - #9, Martial, Rashford
LW - Rashford, Sancho, Martial, Garnacho
RW - Antony, Sancho, Amad

Assume if Sancho is able to perform decent at least.
I'm starting to feel that Sancho might end up at Newcastle for like 65M. We recoup most of the money and Ten Hag can spend it elsewhere, and Newcastle have to sign some promising young English players not at clubs that won't sell if they don't want to, and they just paid huge for a #9, so that basically leaves:

Sancho, Bowen, Maddison, Tomori, Gordon, Guehi, Tyrick Mitchell, Gibbs-White, Barnes, Eze, Marcus Edwards

Would you rather pay 65M if you're Newcastle for Sancho, or say 45-50M for Eze or Gordon? Seems like an easy choice if you're flush.

And Ten Hag may want 65M to spend a lot more than he wants Sancho, considering Garnacho and Rashford are probably best used there and we even have some promising young backup options on the right in Pellistri and Amad.
 

footballbite

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What do people make of en-Nesyri as an option?

West Ham tried to sign him in the summer, wouldn't break the bank at perhaps 35-40mil so could still leave enough for other attacking targets.

Seems a solid all-round no. 9, good in the air and a good strike, and is left-footed as a bonus.

Perhaps a bit injury prone?
 

Messier1994

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I'm starting to feel that Sancho might end up at Newcastle for like 65M. We recoup most of the money and Ten Hag can spend it elsewhere, and Newcastle have to sign some promising young English players not at clubs that won't sell if they don't want to, and they just paid huge for a #9, so that basically leaves:

Sancho, Bowen, Maddison, Tomori, Gordon, Guehi, Tyrick Mitchell, Gibbs-White, Barnes, Eze, Marcus Edwards

Would you rather pay 65M if you're Newcastle for Sancho, or say 45-50M for Eze or Gordon? Seems like an easy choice if you're flush.

And Ten Hag may want 65M to spend a lot more than he wants Sancho, considering Garnacho and Rashford are probably best used there and we even have some promising young backup options on the right in Pellistri and Amad.
Imagine if we could get 80m for Maguire and Sancho. Would really open up some much needed transfer funds to fix holes on the roster.
 

Rob Bowman

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So all healthy starting up top, here is the first team...

Rashford-------Martial---------Antony

Now it gets tricky. Let's assume ETH can work magic, and Sancho recovers his form (either that or he is sold, let's be honest). I say play him on the right and let him get back to his roots ala Dortmund.... Create and run at the defense. Let's also assume Garnacho will continue to develop. This means both wings have solid cover.

At this point, and based on his track record, I say sign who ever the hell ETH wants.

And this would be our subs...

Garnacho---New Striker-----Sancho

I could live with that.
 

Black Alabaster

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What do people make of en-Nesyri as an option?
¬
Talented good profile but hasn't done it for a sustained period yet. No league goals this season and benched at Sevilla it seems.

The biggest problem is if anyone is fairly young and putting up numbers in europe, it's already too late for us if they are seriously worth looking at with where we are at, most people have pointed out the market is devoid of elite top talent so development of talent is king right now.

We severely messed up not taking Julian Alvarez, it is criminal he is a bench warmer behind Haaland for City whilst we are scraping the barrel now.

Brobbery is having a good season seems settled and teased joining ETH last summer, Goncalo Ramos at Benfica too playing well they're both on 9 league goals and are 20/21

Marcus Thuram is a decent poacher, powerful and quick although a bit stiff, having somewhat of a breakthrough season at 25 years old 10 goals in 15 - believe he could be great on a free but Bayern probably wont let that type of value escape under their nose. Especially with Mane age and Mathys Tel their wonderkid needing development time.

Vlahovic could be good with the potential Juve scandal maybe opening an opportunity there although they paid £63m for him he hasn't torn up trees but definitetly price gone up and can't really see him actually wanting to leave after one season he seems to like Italy life.

I think we need to go for someone who like Rangnick said - it's their first proper big club move and are hungry to listen and play hard, maybe south american market we've been rumoured to be shopping in would be ideal. Marcos Leonardo we were linked with recently seems to be on the rise and is 19, hard to tell with the amount of brazilian wonderkids though.

In my heart though I like random links even to that guy Jhon Duran from Chicago Fire, I would prefer to see our new data scientists and scouting structure actually pluck someone that ticks boxes with base ingredients that ETH can turn into a monster. We don't take enough cheap punts like that which we can sell on for profit if they fail and when we do (Pellistri, Amad) we didn't have coherent plan for their development or loans. Would really love a Chicharito type signing that will play with Martinez level spirit.

If that scouting and data side is not set up yet though, I'd like us to just grab Joao Felix for £70M package add-ons included take it or leave it as he seems out the door for sure if Simeone isn't. Double down on the spanish speaking players to bring some, what was it ETH called it again, Garincha? The fighting spirit, reckon we can get him firing on all cylinders as a Firmino profile CF for our fluid goal scoring wingers.
 

footballbite

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Talented good profile but hasn't done it for a sustained period yet. No league goals this season and benched at Sevilla it seems.

The biggest problem is if anyone is fairly young and putting up numbers in europe, it's already too late for us if they are seriously worth looking at with where we are at, most people have pointed out the market is devoid of elite top talent so development of talent is king right now.

We severely messed up not taking Julian Alvarez, it is criminal he is a bench warmer behind Haaland for City whilst we are scraping the barrel now.

Brobbery is having a good season seems settled and teased joining ETH last summer, Goncalo Ramos at Benfica too playing well they're both on 9 league goals and are 20/21

Marcus Thuram is a decent poacher, powerful and quick although a bit stiff, having somewhat of a breakthrough season at 25 years old 10 goals in 15 - believe he could be great on a free but Bayern probably wont let that type of value escape under their nose. Especially with Mane age and Mathys Tel their wonderkid needing development time.

Vlahovic could be good with the potential Juve scandal maybe opening an opportunity there although they paid £63m for him he hasn't torn up trees but definitetly price gone up and can't really see him actually wanting to leave after one season he seems to like Italy life.

I think we need to go for someone who like Rangnick said - it's their first proper big club move and are hungry to listen and play hard, maybe south american market we've been rumoured to be shopping in would be ideal. Marcos Leonardo we were linked with recently seems to be on the rise and is 19, hard to tell with the amount of brazilian wonderkids though.

In my heart though I like random links even to that guy Jhon Duran from Chicago Fire, I would prefer to see our new data scientists and scouting structure actually pluck someone that ticks boxes with base ingredients that ETH can turn into a monster. We don't take enough cheap punts like that which we can sell on for profit if they fail and when we do (Pellistri, Amad) we didn't have coherent plan for their development or loans. Would really love a Chicharito type signing that will play with Martinez level spirit.

If that scouting and data side is not set up yet though, I'd like us to just grab Joao Felix for £70M package add-ons included take it or leave it as he seems out the door for sure if Simeone isn't. Double down on the spanish speaking players to bring some, what was it ETH called it again, Garincha? The fighting spirit, reckon we can get him firing on all cylinders as a Firmino profile CF for our fluid goal scoring wingers.
Decent summary.

En-Nesyri is still relatively young for a striker though - still time for him to regain his form of a couple of seasons ago or gain some consistency. Him being benched at Sevilla would simply make it easier to take a punt on.

I'm not convinced by Marcos Leonardo, I think he lacks pace. Jhon Duran seems a very exciting prospect though, I think Utd should try and bring him in anyway regardless of other signings as I do agree he seems to have the potential to do everything as a CF.

Not sure Joao Felix is really a striker, even a Firmino type.

I reckon Thuram better suits the Bundesliga or a counter attacking side - he needs space to run in to in order to get in to his stride. He seems a bit too sloppy in tight spaces and in his link up play.

Utd could have never gotten Alvarez once City made a concerted effort to sign him.
 

footballbite

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We had a free run at him last January but the Board had obviously taken the hump with Rangnick at that stage and wasn't signing anyone he recommended.
Erm, City signed him last January.

City would have been monitoring the situation and/or negotiating throughout January. .

If Utd would have picked up the phone City would have just sped up the process of signing him.

No chance.
 

andersj

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We had a free run at him last January but the Board had obviously taken the hump with Rangnick at that stage and wasn't signing anyone he recommended.
City signed him in january. It is a made up myth that we had a free run. Constructed by Rangnick,
 

Bojan Djordjic

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Erm, City signed him last January.

City would have been monitoring the situation and/or negotiating throughout January. .

If Utd would have picked up the phone City would have just sped up the process of signing him.

No chance.
Sorry, had that completely wrong in my head so.

It is strange how there are no classic number nines being produced in the big European leagues anymore. They're all either too old or too young. Thought Delap and Matthys Tel might have been good punts last summer but Tel went to Bayern for a lot more than I thought he would and Delap doesnt exactly seem to be ripping it up at Championship level.
 

SalfordRed18

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Sorry, had that completely wrong in my head so.

It is strange how there are no classic number nines being produced in the big European leagues anymore. They're all either too old or too young. Thought Delap and Matthys Tel might have been good punts last summer but Tel went to Bayern for a lot more than I thought he would and Delap doesnt exactly seem to be ripping it up at Championship level.
Delap? As in Liam Delap? The man city player?
 

Bojan Djordjic

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Delap? As in Liam Delap? The man city player?
Yeah, he was ripping it up at youth levels two years ago and now with his pathway blocked by both Alvarez and Haaland, I thought it might be worth trying to lure him to United as back up to Ronaldo.
 

SalfordRed18

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Yeah, he was ripping it up at youth levels two years ago and now with his pathway blocked by both Alvarez and Haaland, I thought it might be worth trying to lure him to United as back up to Ronaldo.
How would we have signed Liam Delap from Manchester City last summer?
 

Messier1994

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Saw that Jesus was getting a scan of his knee and that they feared it could be serious…

…could put Arsenal in the market for a striker in January too.
 

MUnchies

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Saw that Jesus was getting a scan of his knee and that they feared it could be serious…

…could put Arsenal in the market for a striker in January too.
Nah I doubt it. They have Nketiah, who has been putting in good performances this season plus Reiss Nelson if they need him.
 

Ceteris

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Whoever we sign it should never be Gapko, we need a proper number 9
 

Boondog

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Whoever we sign it should never be Gapko, we need a proper number 9
I am not certain Gakpo cannot play 9. But I do agree he comes with some questions in comparison to some other options. Either way what feels good to me right now is that I trust ten Hag to make the best decision with the resources they give him. He clearly has a good eye.

And they will give him the resources to add a 9 for the stretch run. Because if they don't they are hurting the value of the sale in the event this takes a while. Let's say it takes until April and it's clear they're not going to finish top four for example, that would hurt value so there's no way these clowns won't borrow what they need to in order to ensure the pieces ten Hag asks for are there. At the very least a 9 to replace Ronaldo but probably also a depth piece or two.
 

jesperjaap

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Can't believe there's people who want Depay back, no thanks.

Gakpo is a good finisher but I'm not sure his profile is too dissimilar to Rashford or Garnacho, is he really needed?

Personally I wouldn't be adverse to keeping our powder dry if it meant getting Osimhen in summer. If we could get a player in to cover Martial in some loan deal until then I'd be happy, Welbeck would be perfect but Brighton will never let him leave.
Pretty much agree, not enthralled about any of the main names being mentioned. I wanted Giouri in the summer, now I think Omishen is pretty much the only real quality option, but not sure about the price tag
 

NoPace

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Embolo has improved. His attacking play doesn't have enough variety, but he looks really comfortable back to goal which Ten Hag seems to need from his strikers, and he is getting goals for the first time in his career, though he was a useful enough lone striker in his early 20s even though he wasn't a big goalscorer, just from occupying CBs.

Wouldn't be surprising if he has a very good peak from his current age 25 until he's 30 or so. Really strong and moves better than most 6'2 guys who are that strong. Not sure about his 1 on 1 dribbling or that he'll ever be a 25 goal guy, but if Ten Hag likes him I think it's probably about a top 5-10 option for us with this striker market.

Not a sexy choice, but there's upside, durability and a good fit now that he seems to be getting into the 6 yard box more to finish off attacks for club and country. 9 in 21 for the Swiss the last 2 years after starting off quite horribly in terms of goalscoring 4 in 41 for them because he was coming off the bench mostly and also just not ready but the Swiss only had Seferovic as an alternative.

Presumably Monaco would sell at a decent but not outrageous profit from their 13M euros.
 
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NoPace

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Nah I doubt it. They have Nketiah, who has been putting in good performances this season plus Reiss Nelson if they need him.
Reiss Nelson isn't a #9.

If Jesus's injury is serious, I think they'd either find a loan option or pray that Smith-Rowe can come back and use Martinelli as a #9 more. With their standing in the league, seems like if Jesus is out for more than 10 games they'd throw a few million at a #9 who wants to go there and has an expiring deal like Moussa Dembele or the other options we've talked about here, like a Suarez or Vardy or that kind of veteran who fancies a shot at a title.
 

jesperjaap

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City - Haaland, Alvarez
Liverpool - Nunez, Firmino
Arsenal - Jesus, Nketiah
Spurs - Kane, Richarlison? (more of a wide forward)
Chelsea - Aubameyang, Broja
Man United - Martial, New Striker

I could continue..........

We can't go into next season assuming that Martial will be injured, because if he's fit all of next season, then having three specialist strikers, as mentioned before, is overkill. If that's the assumption we are going to make; however, then we should get rid of Martial and buy two new strikers, which I can't see happening.

We have players, as do the teams above, who can do a job in the forward position if/when needed.
TBH bar City and maybe Spurs, none of those striking options are particularly special in my opinion. Which is the centre forward market in general. Most of the big clubs seem to have a striker other side of 30now. Bar Haaland who is different class are there any younger strikers standing out?

A true centre forward seems to have died out in recnet years. We possible had a worls star at our club up front who threw his career away but who else is there in the country Calvert Lewin, Ivan Toney.....please, go back 20years and there were several English plaeyrs couldnt get into squads would walk in to this one. Not seeing any in Spain really or italy or other countries, couple at Dortmund yet to be convinced by yet. I lied Giouri but he looks destied to stay in France and didnt even makes the French squad.

The only two proper strikers out there for me really are Vlahovic and Omishen, not seen that much of either and sure both would be very costly but they are the only options for me, not seen more than 20mins of the guy at Red Bull dubbed the new Haalana but most of the options I see getting mentioned as stop gaps or long term signings look nowhere near the quality we need personally
 

sullydnl

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Out of curiosity, who do people rate more out of Vlahovic, Osimhen and Lautaro Martinez?
 

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Out of curiosity, who do people rate more out of Vlahovic, Osimhen and Lautaro Martinez?
Preface it by saying limited viewing, but I love Vlahovic, like Osimhen. Not really a fan if Lautaro, feel like he doesn't have elite pace (like Oshimen) or elite hold up play (like Vlahovic). Open to correction