The Centre Forward Stop-Gap Market

therealtboy

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I'll always fondly remember that scene from the 2016 Olympics final when Lukas Klostermann won a sprint duel over 15 meters with the famed Gabigol, after starting about 10 meters behind him. Slow as feck.
Klosterman is rapid in full stride though.
 

BrilliantOrange

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Get Memphis! Would be a great squad option even if we buy another 9 like Lautaro or whoever next summer.. He is attainable...
 

Zed 101

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Previous regimes would have seen us linked to Mitrovic, not a bad option depending on price, but doesn't feel like a ETH move... I wanted Toney but that ship is now well and truly set sail
 

maverickjesus

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With everything going on at the minute, Toney could potentially be a bit of a bargain. Will probably get banned for a bit and would need to make sure he doesn't go full Merson, put he's prem proven.
 

Erik the Red

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With everything going on at the minute, Toney could potentially be a bit of a bargain. Will probably get banned for a bit and would need to make sure he doesn't go full Merson, put he's prem proven.
In the meantime he can keep Greenwood company! If this wasn't a good idea beforehand, surely it is a non-starter now?
 

afatzp

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How about Antonio from West Ham ? Just loan him for half a season. He is not starter for them anymore since signing Scamacca and WH should be willing to sell/loan. He has got all missing elements that we need: good strength and header, run non-stop and press, great link-up play , and looks like a decent professional personality with years of PL experience.
 

jesperjaap

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I of course get where you are coming from, and I do think many have just been spittin names to establish who even remotely might be available.

But — I do think part of the reason we are in the position we are as a club is because we have never been able to get more out of a player than what their price tag commands. Very often, getting the opposite. If we bought a failed Maxim Choupo-Moting from Stoke, or picked him up for free, the same could of course be said. Right?

But that is what Bayern have done (getting Choupo-Moting). And he is playing as their striker now when Mane is hurt. They could have spent 50-60m on a backup to Mane, but they found one for free. Sure PL isn’t the BL etc etc etc. But…

Why should we get a stop gap option for striker? We only have so much to spend. We have a ton of holes in the squad. It is perfectly possible that there will — not — be the right long term solution available on the market this January.

Let’s say we have a total of 150m to spend this January, the summer of 23’ and in January 23’. Perfectly possible. Possibly a bit high.

If we want say Oshimen and he is available for 100m this summer. Should we spend 35m on a stop gap now, then 100m on Oshimen next summer and only have 15m left for a RW, CM, RB and CB?
If the right option isnt there, why sign the wrong option? Isnt that wasting "only havin gso much to spend". There are a fair few holes yes, for me a cenral midfielder and a striker are the two glaring ones in our first eleven, so personally signing stop gaps there is completely the wrong thing to do, if the right solution isnt there we already have stop gaps, one that isnt a striker and one that has been woeful and injured for the last few seasons, we dont need another. What has signing Ronaldo who was really a stop gap himself with his age, Cavani, Ighalo, Ibrahimovic actually solved? We are still in the same position now after all of them. Even RVP was only great for 15months as he was at hs peak but that brough a title,
 

jesperjaap

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Might not be the worst thing. Firmino didn't make the Brazilian team and a 9 as good as him might be cheaper without national team appearances.
Yes that is a fair point, just for all the clamour of these hyped youngsers, barly any are there at all, not still playing in Souh AMerica anyway. WOrld cups gone by have had some great youngsters who didnt play though like ROnaldo for Brazil when he was young.

Bar international youth tournamens which I havent seen for a few years, dont follow SOuth AMerican football at all to have knowledge now bar youtube videos but there does seem to not be many great young strikers at the moment numbers wise
 

jesperjaap

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5/6 out of 10 every game is just a shit player.

we can get that performance with what we already have (and even that would be a poor game for both Martial and Rashford)
Completely agree, we have several players in the squad already who are consistently average at best
 

FiiiiveTenHaaags

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I’d be happy as feck with Memphis, he’s matured a lot since he left us.

Anyone reckon Griezman on a one year deal + 1 could happen?
 

davidmichael

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I’d be happy as feck with Memphis, he’s matured a lot since he left us.

Anyone reckon Griezman on a one year deal + 1 could happen?
I pray to fecking god not, Griezmann since his first season at Barca through to now has been awful and how he keeps Felix out of the Atletico team is beyond me other than he’s a Simeone favourite regardless of form.
 

Messier1994

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If the right option isnt there, why sign the wrong option? Isnt that wasting "only havin gso much to spend". There are a fair few holes yes, for me a cenral midfielder and a striker are the two glaring ones in our first eleven, so personally signing stop gaps there is completely the wrong thing to do, if the right solution isnt there we already have stop gaps, one that isnt a striker and one that has been woeful and injured for the last few seasons, we dont need another. What has signing Ronaldo who was really a stop gap himself with his age, Cavani, Ighalo, Ibrahimovic actually solved? We are still in the same position now after all of them. Even RVP was only great for 15months as he was at hs peak but that brough a title,
Our transfer plans will be helped a lot if we finish 4th as opposed to 6th. I don’t agree that it’s irrelevant if we finish 3rd or 13th as long as we don’t win the title.

Playing guys too much or being prevented from playing our preferred way due to not having the personnel will cost us pts in the standing. Guaranteed.

We are heading into an unprecedented tough 5 months of soccer this club. We have glaring holes on the roster:

(i) We don’t have a winger who can play wide on the right side besides Antony. When Elanga plays, we have to deviate from the game plan.

(ii) Martial helps with his pressing and ability to hold up the ball. Rashford has many times disappeared from games when we need a striker that can hold up the ball the most.

(iii) Martinez ability to play the ball for us is essential for Ten Hag’s style. Lindelof can fake Varane football, it’s not what we need, but it’s a place holder. None of our CBs can provide backup if Martinez is hurt.

(iv) Not to mention the lack of backup at RB that we have and how counting on Eriksen to be a total workhorse for us is stretching it.

I 100% agree with you that we have to get the right type of players for these holes on the squad. BUT — if they fit the requirements, I think having the right types at his disposal is worth much more to ETH than being forced to plug a square plug into a round hole.

In addition, for a football player to function — nothing is more important than team structure. We have not had a functioning team in the past. We are starting to get that under Ten Hag. I think we are seeing that with Eriksen for example. Would he have made a massive difference for Ole? Never. Ole’s equation didn’t add up, the groundwork wasn’t there for the players to succeed.

Lastly, you can definitely get a lot of football, real high level football, from many many players out there — (a) if they are healthy at the moment, (b) if they are put in a positioning to succeed, and (c) if they aren’t given a too heavy work load. Put differently, if you want a player to provide play at the same high level and the player is (a) half injured, (b) put in a position that doesn’t really fit him and (c) have to play a ton of games — there are very few who can provide it.

If you have watched a lot of football and a lot of different kind of competitions, the above is apparent. You regularly see examples of lesser teams in like the Europa League all of a sudden have a name you recognize and that you thought had retired a decade ago — play really really well. For national teams it’s basically more of a rule than an exception if you look at like teams outside the top 10-12 nations. There are literary examples of like players in the 2nd tier league in Belgium doing a really good job for their national team at a high level.

To summarize, a ton of names have been spittballed in this thread that probably aren’t even remotely good fits. You can’t just pick a name out of a hat and expect to find someone who can perform based on what you saw of the player in question 3-4 years ago. Someone can have been at an awful place 3-4 years ago, and recovered his career, completely turned it around. But if you put the right guy at the right time at the right place — definitely, they can help, even if they aren’t long term solutions. Someone who has failed at a bottom tier PL league and only is doing so-so in some lesser European league, could definitely perform for us. Help ETH to get this team into the top 4.
 
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NoPace

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Yes that is a fair point, just for all the clamour of these hyped youngsers, barly any are there at all, not still playing in Souh AMerica anyway. WOrld cups gone by have had some great youngsters who didnt play though like ROnaldo for Brazil when he was young.

Bar international youth tournamens which I havent seen for a few years, dont follow SOuth AMerican football at all to have knowledge now bar youtube videos but there does seem to not be many great young strikers at the moment numbers wise
I think numbers-wise there are a couple guys in Brazil scoring goals as #9s. Forget the names but one or 2 who moved to Europe too young and struggled.

There's also an uncapped 34 year old Argentine named German Cano who led the league by a mile in goals and . Their season starts again in April I guess, so can't imagine Fluminense would want to loan us him for 6 months though.
 

NoPace

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I pray to fecking god not, Griezmann since his first season at Barca through to now has been awful and how he keeps Felix out of the Atletico team is beyond me other than he’s a Simeone favourite regardless of form.
I think he's been great this year, but as a 10. Fantastic for France the other day. Like Mason Mount if he was truly great at football.
 

Messier1994

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How about Antonio from West Ham ? Just loan him for half a season. He is not starter for them anymore since signing Scamacca and WH should be willing to sell/loan. He has got all missing elements that we need: good strength and header, run non-stop and press, great link-up play , and looks like a decent professional personality with years of PL experience.
He would probably be a great fit.

But I am very sceptical that we just could go out and get guys like him or Mitrovic and the likes.

West Ham is in the Conference League. They will play as many games as everyone else this spring. Why would they let Antonio go?

Why would Fulham sell Mitrovic? I don’t see it.

I think you must look at players more in the position of Dempay or AtM’s strikers. Or like Gabriel Barbosa in Brazil who got pull on his team. Someone mentioned that Kiefer Moore got a 6m release clause.
 
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NoPace

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This just seems too good a fit to have happened before Ten Hag got here and too good a fit not to now that he's here and we have some competence.

Ultimately, a stopgap option in January you're going to struggle to find a guy killing it in club football because teams won't give them up, so a guy from the same country as the manager who's been dominant in World Cup Qualifying for a while now and who did well enough at Lyon to earn a move to Barcelona then got replaced by a superstar in Lewandowski seems like damn near the best case scenario.
 

NoPace

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He would probably be a great fit.

But I am very sceptical that we just could go out and get guys like him or Mitrovic and the likes.

West Ham is in the Conference League. They will play as many games as everyone else this spring. Why would they let Antonio go?

Why would Fulham sell Mitrovic? I don’t see it.
I think Mitrovic in January would cost 100M because they genuinely go from their current 6/1 odds to get relegated to even if they sell him, even if they say spent 30M on a good young striking prospect.

From what I've seen this year Antonio is suffering badly from working his ass off for years and also just being 32 and lacking technical skill. Also think he's a terrible fit for the football we are trying to play. Whereas Scamacca would have been an interesting buy if we'd just somehow gotten rid of Cristiano in the summer. Big, great striker of the ball and clever link up play. Lacks pace but we've seen with Rashford struggling up top that it's probably the least important quality we're looking for in a 9, especially with the rumoured names we went after all being far from pace-y.
 

NoPace

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Previous regimes would have seen us linked to Mitrovic, not a bad option depending on price, but doesn't feel like a ETH move... I wanted Toney but that ship is now well and truly set sail
I don't think we're spending the insane amount he'd cost but footballing wise, he'd be great. Massive aerial threat when we dominate the ball and pin teams back and he's great 1 on 1 back to goal. If his contract were shorter I think he'd be a great summer signing.
 

berbasloth4

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Getting to used to stop gap options.

Play martial up top, have rashford and sancho who can fill it. bring mcneil up from the reserves. If want to bring a loan in for experience, why not chicharito back. Won't expect to stay or play every week and I'm sure he can nick a few.

Then maybe vlahovic or Kane in summer.
 

Marcus

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Don't see a full on signing due to options
Yup we will see. So many variables now with new owners soon and all. I think I would trust EtH to make the best signing for the Team. Maybe as someone said earlier, Giroud?
 

Gordon S

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Has anyone watched Celtics Kyogo? Looks very lively on the few youtube comps i´ve seen.
Quick, technical, agile, with a good sense of positioning in the box.
 

Okey

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In the January market, Memphis might be as good as we get. And he's not bad at all. Very different from the young man that left us. Leaves room for the starting striker we still need. That person won't be available in January, no matter how much we fantasise.
 

Longlivekeano

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If vardy is available and not starting regularly for Leicester, we should make a bid for him. Won’t be too expensive. Will be motivated to play in Europe, yet, not too choosy about champs league. Will press defenders like crazy and good finisher in the box.
 

BorisManUtd

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This just seems too good a fit to have happened before Ten Hag got here and too good a fit not to now that he's here and we have some competence.

Ultimately, a stopgap option in January you're going to struggle to find a guy killing it in club football because teams won't give them up, so a guy from the same country as the manager who's been dominant in World Cup Qualifying for a while now and who did well enough at Lyon to earn a move to Barcelona then got replaced by a superstar in Lewandowski seems like damn near the best case scenario.
Yeah, I'd be happy if we got Memphis Depay for 2nd part of the season. Not sure we can sign better player in the middle of the season.
 

Messier1994

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I think Mitrovic in January would cost 100M because they genuinely go from their current 6/1 odds to get relegated to even if they sell him, even if they say spent 30M on a good young striking prospect.

From what I've seen this year Antonio is suffering badly from working his ass off for years and also just being 32 and lacking technical skill. Also think he's a terrible fit for the football we are trying to play. Whereas Scamacca would have been an interesting buy if we'd just somehow gotten rid of Cristiano in the summer. Big, great striker of the ball and clever link up play. Lacks pace but we've seen with Rashford struggling up top that it's probably the least important quality we're looking for in a 9, especially with the rumoured names we went after all being far from pace-y.
Good post and I agree all the way.

One thing though, with Schmacca and strikers like him you do lose a lot of pressing ability. Like in a classic situation where say there is an air duel and then a loose ball, a big striker like him will just not nearly get going after it as fast as a smaller quicker type. With someone like Antonio, I think one of his biggest strengths is that he is good in the air due to being really strong, but he is also like glue going after possession and pressing. Tough bastard to play against.
 
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