Lentwood
Full Member
It’s a confidence thing for me, taking too many touches
I mean he's obviously been worse this season, don't need stats for that, probably just confidence. But stats generally are a bit rubbish. Numerous possible factors which can distort such a stat. I believe the most common one used simply goes by where the shot is taken from, what about position of the goalkeeper, position of the nearby defenders, speed, bounce or spin on the ball if its a first time shot, reaction time, or body position and how under control the ball is if the striker has carried the ball before shooting. What if a player has a difficult chance to shoot and score, but instead attempts to dribble. What if they are tackled instead, or what if they dribble to a semi open goal.He was scoring more goals than expected basing on chances, one of the best in the League anyway for a few seasons. Last year he was 1st or 2nd (him and Greenwood).
For example Rashford oscillates around average on that stat. Martial was on different level.
I have no idea what happened to him, he's been in such a poor form for a few months now.
It doesn't matter, because rules for calculation of those stats (goals - expected goals) do not change. So if he was getting high score on that parameter for a few seasons, and now is below average, the problem lies with Martial not with stats.I mean he's obviously been worse this season, don't need stats for that, probably just confidence. But stats generally are a bit rubbish. Numerous possible factors which can distort such a stat. I believe the most common one used simply goes by where the shot is taken from, what about position of the goalkeeper, position of the nearby defenders, speed, bounce or spin on the ball if its a first time shot, reaction time, or body position and how under control the ball is if the striker has carried the ball before shooting. What if a player has a difficult chance to shoot and score, but instead attempts to dribble. What if they are tackled instead, or what if they dribble to a semi open goal.
I'm not disputing the difference between previous seasons, that is evident in his goal tally and a few memorable misses, but I'm disputing that he was ever a great finisher. He's always been an okay/streaky finisher. One half decent little run and the stats would realign. He'd still be an okay/streaky finisher though, not a great one.It doesn't matter, because rules for calculation of those stats (goals - expected goals) do not change. So if he was getting high score on that parameter for a few seasons, and now is below average, the problem lies with Martial not with stats.
By the way the difference (in Martial performance level) this season to last is quite significant.
Shit talk. Cavani has missed plenty of sitters for us this season.I don’t think he’s a centre forward like Cavani. You give that chance at the end to Cavani and he buries it for 2-0.
Hes better as a wide forward for me.
See what you're saying, however, in this case I strongly disagree. As I said in a previous post, even in Martial's most underwhelming seasons, if he had the ball in the box, you were dead cert we'd be celebrating a goal. It caught my attention particularly because he was such a young player. Didn't matter the size of the game, he was just ice cold. The issue was always that due to insufficient off the ball movement, it didn't happen as often as we wanted. Now he's getting chances and he just seems to have lost it. This actually started towards the end of last season. Not sure what's happened there at all. We need him to find his scoring touch to give us the best chance of staying in this title race.I mean he's obviously been worse this season, don't need stats for that, probably just confidence. But stats generally are a bit rubbish. Numerous possible factors which can distort such a stat. I believe the most common one used simply goes by where the shot is taken from, what about position of the goalkeeper, position of the nearby defenders, speed, bounce or spin on the ball if its a first time shot, reaction time, or body position and how under control the ball is if the striker has carried the ball before shooting. What if a player has a difficult chance to shoot and score, but instead attempts to dribble. What if they are tackled instead, or what if they dribble to a semi open goal.
He did try a nice shot from outside the box in the first half so it can't simply be a loss of confidence. I think it's a mental block, alright, but not a loss of confidence per see.Like someone said he just seems to have put on some weight as he looks or seems so sluggish which much hinder his natural way of playing football, reminds me of aghbonlaor when he out on some muscles so he could handle the big centre halves but lost some of his explosiveness.
But his confidence is really shot to pieces he just can't shoot properly anymore so strange about him this year hopefully he rediscover his finishing touch.
Andy Cole in this United team would be a lot more productive than Martial will ever be. He's a player who flatters to deceive more often than not.Shades of Andy Cole early in his career when he needed 5 chances to score 1 goal.
A more lethal finisher, and we’d bet set up top!
I get ya but my memory is a bit different. I know in his first season he had a really good run at the start where he looked deadly and I had the same impression as you, but it didn't last all that long. My interpretation is Martial is okay-to-decent at fairly straight forward one v ones, and he'll usually try and create those for himself by either beating a defender rather than shooting, or by controlling the ball rather than shooting first time, both with the intention of trying to create the easier finishing opportunity for himself. This also means sometimes he won't get the shot off, as he declines to shoot earlier if the chance is difficult, so his stat % is padded a bit that way.See what you're saying, however, in this case I strongly disagree. As I said in a previous post, even in Martial's most underwhelming seasons, if he had the ball in the box, you were dead cert we'd be celebrating a goal. It caught my attention particularly because he was such a young player. Didn't matter the size of the game, he was just ice cold. The issue was always that due to insufficient off the ball movement, it didn't happen as often as we wanted. Now he's getting chances and he just seems to have lost it. This actually started towards the end of last season. Not sure what's happened there at all. We need him to find his scoring touch to give us the best chance of staying in this title race.
During his time at United he has consistently outperformed his expected goals each and every season in the league.I think it's a bit of a myth that he was ever a great finisher. Due to his calm (relaxed) style and body language, he looks extremely composed in front of goal, doesn't smash the ball, always attempts to finesse it in, so when they go in it looks classy as feck and he looks like a great finisher.
Most of the best finishers though, the goals won't always look pretty but they find the back of the net consistently. That's never been the case with Tony.
By that token he was one of the best strikers in the league for 6 months last season so you can’t have it both ways. He’s clearly a classy player struggling for that confidence which is when fans should rally behind a player but hey ho...Half a season? He's never really been good enough for United to be a starter as a striker. He hardly developed since he joined us. It's much worse than a patch.
To be fair, you can't have half a season confidence crisis at his age when you want to be United's main man up front, it's not good enough.By that token he was one of the best strikers in the league for 6 months last season so you can’t have it both ways. He’s clearly a classy player struggling for that confidence which is when fans should rally behind a player but hey ho...
The thing is he's always been an excellent finisher. It has to be confidence. All strikers go through a dry spell from time to time. I still reckon he'll get a bunch of goals in the second half of the season.Shades of Andy Cole early in his career when he needed 5 chances to score 1 goal.
A more lethal finisher, and we’d bet set up top!
Yeh I do agree which is why I would still like to bring in an alternative striker, but anyone writing him off or asking for him to be sold are being ridiculous. He’s a valuable player here and when on form is as good as anyone in the team.To be fair, you can't have half a season confidence crisis at his age when you want to be United's main man up front, it's not good enough.
You could forgive him at the start of the season when he was on a drought, but he's broken the drought more than once now and he's still in shit form.
I'm a fan and I thought he was going to be immense this season off the back of last campaign but it's not happened for him, it's very frustrating.
Imagine post-break '20 level Rashford, Greenwood and Martial in this team. It's amazing we are top without that - and where we could be, with it.Hes actually been that bad in front of gial that if he picks up his level to that of last season for the next 20 odd games Id actually believe we could win the league. We've largely been doing it without him at his best.
Yep, the excellent header against Villa for instance.I’ve always felt when he’s had time to think about what he’s doing he’s tended to miss a chance. Give him something with less time involving more instinct and he slots it away no bother. Couldn’t care too much though as we got the 3 points.
To be fair Cavani missed kicked a sitter in the 2nd half that rolled into Pope’s handsI don’t think he’s a centre forward like Cavani. You give that chance at the end to Cavani and he buries it for 2-0.
Hes better as a wide forward for me.
Very true! I’m just hoping Tony finds his way sooner rather than later! Cole would be a great player to try to emulate, but that said, their styles are different, so apples and oranges, I guessAndy Cole in this United team would be a lot more productive than Martial will ever be. He's a player who flatters to deceive more often than not.
I’m optimistic, but the turnaround needs to happen soon! (Preferably by Sunday)The thing is he's always been an excellent finisher. It has to be confidence. All strikers go through a dry spell from time to time. I still reckon he'll get a bunch of goals in the second half of the season.
There have been loads, surely. He's got an entire collection of bangers from that inside-left position: off the top of my head, Stoke in 15/16 and 16/17 (maybe 17/18 too, he loved them), Everton in 17/18, Burnley a few games later (my favorite finish of his so far, smashed it in off the bar at the near post), Everton again in 18/19, two after lockdown last season against Sheff United and then Bournemouth (I think). Then those two magnificent lobs against Norwich and Watford last season, and another near post smash-in against Wolves. He's usually ice-cold in one-on-ones and above-average when he does pull the trigger on trickier chances, as you said yourself, hence:I can't remember many goals from Martial where the finish alone was something that I thought, that was really difficult, or thats a finish I wouldn't have expected
My completely unverifiable theory is that this is largely because he's a great finisher with the ball at his feet, but also because he's naff at getting on the end of things in the box. So his xG is lower than it should be, and the clinical finishes from not-so-straightforward chances send him above his average.During his time at United he has consistently outperformed his expected goals each and every season in the league.