All strikers miss more than they put away, and no striker in my lifetime has scored 50 league goals in a season. The idea that Cole is particularly prone to missing chances is just something people have repeated without much in the way of evidence since c1995.
The disrespect for Andy Cole
- Thread starter FujiVice
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I've just had a brief glance at the last page or two of this thread and it is pretty obvious that you don't realise how good Cole was.
5 PL titles and 1 champs league, plus 2 fa cups, I wished he had of reached his potential
Yes absolutely. The team was not built around him in the same way it was at Newcastle. He became more involved in build up play and still scored a lot of goals.
This. If it is true then how many could he have had? Probably double Alan Shearer’s record
Nothing you said in this post is accurate. Literally nothing.
Do people seriously think Cole was as good as Shearer or Ruud? Seriously? After he came to Utd at least? In that season or two at Newcastle he arguably was, but not after he came to us.
Very true he is the king of daytime television
They didn't really link up all that well, maybe it was because they didn't like each other or there was a clash of styles.
Maybe I'm wrong, but Cole was never given a fair shot with England. Was it that or something else why he didn't go? Hoddle's excuse was a load of bs.
Hee was probably the second best striker they had available for most of his career.
You just claimed he was the same as Dion Dublin so everything you say on this topic has been invalidated.
I'll go halves, he was somewhere between Ruud & Dublin.
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I can't recall the webpage, but a few years ago someone did the homework and it turns out Cole didn't have a poor converstion %. In fact, it was determined that Cole had one of the best conversation %'s of strikers in the 90's.
Hoddle's comments got in the minds of all fans (United or otherwise) and created a modern myth that kept perpetuating itself. Again, it's the exact opposite. Cole had a good conversion rate relative to other top strikers who apparently had good rates themselves.
Hoddle's comments got in the minds of all fans (United or otherwise) and created a modern myth that kept perpetuating itself. Again, it's the exact opposite. Cole had a good conversion rate relative to other top strikers who apparently had good rates themselves.
Did Shearer ever score 5 in a game?
Absolute horseshit. He almost scored one in two over his entire United career of 400 plus games but sure don't let facts get in the way
This is the point. Some people on here are saying 'well I don't remember Hoddle saying it'. The fact that you don't specifically remember him saying it is not not the point: his words infected the narrative around Cole and it took on a life of its own to the point where other people would repeat it. But it's codswallop. Again, just logically, how can he have the second most non-penalty goals in PL history when his conversion rate is supposedly so much worse than all the other top guys? Just a bit of thought on the matter reveals it as being nonsense.
Seems to me Andy Cole suffers more from being overshadowed than being underrated.
We had massive personalities at the time: Cantona, Keane, Schmeichel, Beckham and Giggs who took up all the media oxygen. Cole was only brilliant and I’ve never heard anyone suggest otherwise.
We had massive personalities at the time: Cantona, Keane, Schmeichel, Beckham and Giggs who took up all the media oxygen. Cole was only brilliant and I’ve never heard anyone suggest otherwise.
Without cheating (looking it up online) I think he did. Two or three came from the spot though if I remember correctly. Cole was the first to score 5 in a game (Prem), against Ipswich (9-0). Think Defoe also got 5 in a game once. I know there's a few more that have reached that figure. For some reason, Robbie Keane and Agüero are in my head. Didn't Haaland get 5 in a game this season?
After he left United, he had a decent goals per game ratio for Blackburn, Fulham, and City, none of whom were exactly great attacking sides.
So yeah, that myth was complete bollocks.
Cause you've quoted him almost directly.
"Needs x changes to score 1 goal" is objective nonsense. He'd regularly pounce on one chance in a goal and get us the points. Leeds away springs to mind but there were literally dozens.
It'd be hard to know the true reasons why Cole never had the respect he deserved during his career or today. Especially considering he kept scoring goals and contributing to different teams long after leaving United. I remember a curling lobbed goal against Villa (I think) he scored for City, a partnership with Jon Stead that kept Fulham up, winning the league cup for Blackburn against Spurs. And of course his dynamic explosion in the PL for Newcastle. It's hard to remember just how exciting that was. Not sure there's been anything similar since - a newly promoted side coming 3rd in the league with a raw, dynamic, explosive striker knocking in 41 goals. It was extraordinary. He was absolute lightning.
He came to United in Jan 95 and banged in loads of goals in Cantona's absence, including one of my favourites where he lobbed the Coventry keeper, ran 'round him then controlled a volley in. He failed (through no real fault of his own) to score the goal that would've beat West Ham to win the league, and there was an immediate spin by the media to make him the cause of the failure. Nothing could've been further from the truth, but football is often about narratives, and that one unfairly damaged Cole's reputation. He had 18 months injured shortly after, and that's when Cantona came back and single-handedly won us the league. Maybe he just didn't compare favourably with Eric. Very few do.
Then Hoddle said what he said and that became an additional narrative. When England managers say things they tend to stick - Southgate's maligning of Smalling as incapable of playing the ball certainly didn't help his reputation. But Hoddle also said some other... interesting... things at the time that people have happily forgotten. Hoddle was also a big fan of Sheringham - a man much more in his own image than Cole. Those two players had a running enmity, and although Fergie was able to channel that into success, Hoddle was no Fergie.
Some reasons for the (IMO) nonsense retrospective judgment of Cole could be:
- He appeared to be a little ungraceful. It's untrue that he didn't have a good touch (see the PL-winning goal in 99), but he was kind of skinny and leggy, and a bit ungainly. He was no Messi, don't get me wrong, but he was no donkey. I'd put him at a similar level to someone like Fowler. He could finish first-time, round the keeper, pause and drop a defender with a feint, and of course score some spectacular goals like the one for Blackburn at Anfield, the 2(!) bicycle kicks in one season (against Leicester and Watford if I remember), or the many dainty chips (he scored a lovely goal for Newcastle in his 41-goal season, for us against Sunderland I think, and the City one mentioned above).
- Fergie definitely respects him, but I feel like he almost never mentions Cole when discussing old players. At least, I can’t remember him doing so. There are also not many players of his era who cite Cole as being amongst their most revered peers . Keane is one of the rare ex-pros who has a good word for him, but there aren’t many more, even amongst his old teammates. I honestly think will be because of his personal character and lack of integration to the boys’ club, but it’s worth acknowledging regardless.
- He actually had a few games for England, but only returned one goal. For everything said above, had he finished a chance he had at Wembley against Finland (I think), or another against (possibly) Poland, things might’ve been very different. Personally I couldn’t care less about England, and I certainly don’t see international success as a barometer of quality or historical resonance. But I understand that some do.
- The elephant in the room I’m afraid… I don’t wish to be inflammatory, but I genuinely think that (some of) the historical bias against Cole might be his race. Things are just about starting to get better, but Cole was playing at a time when ‘football intelligence’ was seen as the preserve of the white European players. Black footballers could be powerful and athletic, but not ‘clever’. Cole didn’t quite ‘fit’ that mould. He was smart, he was clever, he was strong, he could pick a pass (more on that later), but he wasn’t the archetype that some fans, journalists, and writers used to lazily expect. That’s why I think some would rate Fowler above him, regardless of what I think is objective reality about their respective qualities and productivity.
Whatever the reasons, I find it utterly bizarre given his return alone, never mind his quality, or the length and variety of his career.
He’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but he’s responsible for some of the greatest moments of my life. That goal shared above against Barca at Camp Nou lives at the forefront of my memory, I recall it almost every day. I also remember a rarely mentioned hat-trick away to PSV (I think), a couple of wonder goals in a pre-season tournament (in the US?), and another amazing goal against Sturm Graz. I remember him slide tacking the imperious Marcel Desailly at Stamford Bridge setting up Yorke for a glorious outside-of-the boot chip (the Wout fans on here would be astonished at Cole's hustle, pressing, and work rate). Then there’s the injury-time turnaround against Liverpool in the FA cup where he held off the defender and feathered a classy header across for Yorke to tap in. When he saw the writing on the wall after Ruud arrived, he didn’t mope or sit picking up hollow trinkets and unearned wages – he went and proved himself in different systems, with players of significantly worse quality, under a different kind of pressure. That’s the kind of thing that fans profess to respect, but Cole doesn’t seem to get much of it.
To be critical, I don’t find him a particularly insightful pundit on the rare occasions he appears on TV. And he probably should’ve been the better man in the conflict with Sheringham. And his rap single was absolutely disgustingly bad. But he’s one of the United players I hold closest to my heart. I absolutely loved it when he scored, more than any other player before or since probably.
Apologies for rabbiting on. I actually just wanted to point out that – regardless of the accusation above that his all-round play was limited, he actually sits 13 in the all-time Premier League assisters. Add that to his total goals (without a single penalty!). The only thing more astonishing than his output is the continuing reluctance of the broader football world to acknowledge it. Looking at some of the replies on this thread, I’m not the only one who dives into this thread when I see it pop up on the home page, ready to put right some of the lazy preconceptions about Andy Cole. I can’t lie, it makes me feel good that there are enough other United fans who remember him like I do. It’s just a shame there aren’t more.
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Difficult to say based on memory alone, it’s a weird one. I’d have to go back and watch every game he played in. I just remember him missing a lot of chances he should’ve scored. It’s my overriding memory of him to be honest, and I know it’s the same for a lot of United fans I know. Still a top player though.
Andy Cole was an erratic finisher at times, but his all round game developed to an exceptional level, would say by 2000 he was probably the best all round striker in the league. His movement was incredible, and he had great acceleration to get away from defenders, add that to exceptional agility and the ability to gets shots off with little backlift and you had a guy who created so many chances for himself. Close to a perfect build for a striker as well, lean, agile but explosive and strong at the same time.
His all round game was so underrated, always felt that replacing Cole with RVN meant a drop off in the link up play, lay offs and interplay, made Utd a lot more predictable. Cole always had those abilities in his game, you can see it at Newcastle in flashes but at Utd he became an easy guy for his partner to play with, outside of Cantona, and there was no selfishness there, was always prepared to make the extra pass, and put the team first, which was the great strength of that era of Utd, no-one was looking to accumulate stats as is the trend today.
His all round game was so underrated, always felt that replacing Cole with RVN meant a drop off in the link up play, lay offs and interplay, made Utd a lot more predictable. Cole always had those abilities in his game, you can see it at Newcastle in flashes but at Utd he became an easy guy for his partner to play with, outside of Cantona, and there was no selfishness there, was always prepared to make the extra pass, and put the team first, which was the great strength of that era of Utd, no-one was looking to accumulate stats as is the trend today.
He scored 121 goals for United, which is 11th all time in the entire history of the club. He did that in six years. Almost all the people ahead of him spent their entire careers (or at least 10 years) at the club; the notable exceptions would be Ruud and CR7.
Didn't realise how close he was to joining Chelsea until ruud got hurt
As a kid In my eyes Cole and Yorke were the better version of Batman and Robin.
I always liked him, but I think even I underrated him. One of my first times at OT in 90s was to watch fiorentina in the champs league, and I was amazed at what a fantastic player cole was, you see so much more than TV shows, obv. But it was so good to watch, his interchanges with Giggs on the left, constant movement caused them no end of issues.
He had a tricky start to his united career and there was a bit of a narrative against him after that but he was great for us. If all you can really remember of him is that he missed a lot of chances then I guess you didn't watch us much in the late 90s and early 00s.
we created a lot of chances back then, a lot. we won the title in 5 of his 7 seasons with us. The first and last of them 7 seasons he only played in half the games. For a man that never hit penalties, and was also involved in the build up, his numbers were top class.
Has to be a windup.
Good post.
The fact that people still trot out the crap about him missing chances is baffling.
He was a fantastic striker with great movement and he scored all types of goals, scored some sublime chips, overheads, tap ins, headers, first touch finishes and was well able to take on and beat a defender to score.
You can't be that high up the scoring charts if you were missing as many chances as he was supposedly missing.
Up until a couple of years ago I'm fairly sure he was the only player to top both scoring and assist charts in the same season.
At one point only Giggs and Bergkamp had more assists from open play than Cole.
His goal at 15 secs is one of my favourite United goals.
Cole was a fantastic player and one of my favourites growing up. He had a couple of seasons early on where his goal tally wasn't as good as it should have been but his first touch and hold up play was generally really really good (people forget that) and he did make big contributions to our league wins. He also had to deal with massive injury issues and, maybe i'm wrong but I get the feeling Cantona and him didn't get on. For three seasons though, he was a fantastic striker who could win us vital games.
Guy always stayed on his feet when in the penalty box too. The amount of times i see old clips of defenders hacking him in the box and he just keeps going is pretty impressive.
Guy always stayed on his feet when in the penalty box too. The amount of times i see old clips of defenders hacking him in the box and he just keeps going is pretty impressive.
This thread is suggesting disrespect towards Cole barely making a list of the premier leagues top 10 strikers from all teams. Where would people put him in a list just of United?
I'd go something like Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie, Ruud, Hughes, Berbatov, Yorke, Solskaer, Cole, McClair.
I'd go something like Rooney, Ronaldo, Van Persie, Ruud, Hughes, Berbatov, Yorke, Solskaer, Cole, McClair.
Even now, he could probably bury some of the chances gone begging recently.
Berbatov doesn’t belong in the discussion. Cole above Yorke and Solskjaer for me.
(edit): where’s Cantona in your list? No Sheringham?