The Doubles Draft - R1: mazhar vs Enigma

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    20
  • Poll closed .

Enigma_87

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@Enigma_87

I know your intention was not to replicate a specific team but - imho - your team looks like the Brazil WC winner in 2002: I mean 7 defensive players + a fantastic trio (Ronaldinho-Rivaldo-Ronaldo).

Pelé-Rivaldo-Luis Suarez are so talented that the trio is unpredictable: no need to attribute specific roles like 'support striker', '#10' or 'striker' because they will swap between them.

A nightmare for any defence.
To be fair that's probably the most accurate comparison with that side or at least how the three would operate.

It is probably the most I can get of the Suarez-Rivaldo-Pele trio.

Suarez adds a lot - including his movement. Nice highlights of him able to open space for Barcelona and his movement towards and off the box:


Best watched muted without the overly dramatic music, but he IMO was the right guy for this formation(apart from R9 of course).
 

Gio

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Went for Enigma. There's just too much quality in that front trio for his central defensive and central midfield unit to handle. They're also very complementary with a potent blend of individuality/collectiveness, left-and-right sidedness, work rate and leadership.
 

Enigma_87

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To an extent I do agree with this: The Legacy player not being drafted/bought as a matter of choice is one thing - but it's also random which position he is most suited to play in. So, yes, to an extent some leniency might be in order there.

Then again, part of the challenge is to come up with a plan which accomodates the Legacy player (and the youth player, for that matter) in the best way possible. You do have a choice when it comes to what system you go for - and to what degree the Legacy man ends up exposed (or burdened with a too important task).
I think legacy players should always be a bit more versatile. Mazhar is a bit unlucky with Le Tissier(not that he's crap mind), because he had to build a team around him, rather than using him as a supporting cast. With Le Tissier or other #10/SS players you don't have much room for tactical maneuvers. If he is a full back you can concentrate on defence or put an additional wide midfielder to aid him. If he's a CB you can play a 5-3-2 or 3-5-2, central midfielder - the same, wide midfielder - overlapping full back or CM capable of helping and moving wide. But a #10 is probably the hardest to replace, especially in all time context.
 

Chesterlestreet

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But a #10 is probably the hardest to replace, especially in all time context.
Yes, it's a bit of a pain, no doubt.

I don't know - depends entirely on who's available and so forth, but I'd probably be tempted to play Le Tissier as a more pronounced second striker (which is his best role for me anyway), alongside some heavy hitter or other who compliments his style - and then just try and build a very solid team behind 'em.

For mazhar this is particularly tricky, though - since he was handed Ronaldo. It's not like you can drop him.
 

Gio

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I think legacy players should always be a bit more versatile. Mazhar is a bit unlucky with Le Tissier(not that he's crap mind), because he had to build a team around him, rather than using him as a supporting cast. With Le Tissier or other #10/SS players you don't have much room for tactical maneuvers. If he is a full back you can concentrate on defence or put an additional wide midfielder to aid him. If he's a CB you can play a 5-3-2 or 3-5-2, central midfielder - the same, wide midfielder - overlapping full back or CM capable of helping and moving wide. But a #10 is probably the hardest to replace, especially in all time context.
Aye that's a decent point. I like Mazhar's front trio here, it dovetails very nicely. But when you look at some of the incredible 10s who didn't make the cut, inevitably Le Tiss looks somewhat underwhelming, whereas the likes of Solskjaer and Brown were easier to hide into more functional roles.
 

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@mazhar13 was very unlucky because:

1. Le Tissier, a 'legacy player' in the middle hard to sell.
2. a lucky Enigma who gets Zé Roberto - 84 caps with Brazil - on the wing
3. I understand the late draw of Sammer has disturbed his initial plan

However, I have to vote for @Enigma_87 given:

- the quality of his 7 defensive players and of his fantastic trio with a lot of potential complementarity.
- his 'philosophy': the players share the same 'football view'. I'm not saying that because there are many Brazilian players. For example, Davids (only for several months though), Rivaldo, Luis Suarez were successful with Barcelona.

The strategy of mazhar was risky:

- a 3-man central midfield comprised of 1 youth player + 1 legacy player. Not the easiest way to win the 'midfield battle' especially when you play against Davids & co. Let's be honest - without the mandatory rules - Pogba (too young) & Le Tissier won't be here.
- Cr7 & Pogba have a different positioning with Real Madrid & Juve. Cr7 would be excellent here - of course - but maybe some voters are 'conservative'.
- Paul Pogba is a little bit 'controversial' in tactical terms and his sense of sacrifice can't be compared with those of Tigana and Davids. Humm. Dortmund was very successful with Sammer in a similar tactical system and the central midfielders were Paulo Sousa-Moller-Lambert or Zorc-Freund-Moller (high work-rate together)

In order to hide Le Tissier, I would have played with 2 wingers and 2 ultra-defensive midfielders. Otherwise, your choices were excellent.
 
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mazhar13

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I'm surprised that many thing that my team can really get so opened up against Enigma's team. Granted, his attacking lineup looks tasty, but I already took care of that with the back 3 that I have set up. Vierchowod, in particular, was pretty much the Stanley Matthews of the defence, maintaining his fitness enough to be a key component for a Juve team that defeated the great Ajax side that contained Davids and Seedorf. He was pacy enough to keep up with the most athletic of forwards during the 1980's and '90's, including Gullit and van Basten, and even Maradona struggled to be influential when facing Vierchowod, so I struggle to see how he can be troubled by one of Pele, Suarez, or Rivaldo. Wherever he's gone, he's had success or was close to it. At Fiorentina, he was close to winning the Scudetto. His first season in Roma resulted in a Scudetto. He won 3 Coppa Italias at Sampdoria as well as Sampdoria's first ever Scudetto. He won the Champions League with Juventus as well in his 30's, playing 120 minutes against a youthful, energetic Ajax full of movement and creativity. There's a reason I drafted Vierchowod into the team, and it's because he's perfect at dealing with any defensive threat.

On top of Vierchowod, I have a classy defender in Rosato who, whilst he could be ruthless, can still stop opponents without always going to the ground. Plus, he's played as a right full back for AC Milan on several occasions, so it's not like this wide central defensive role was unfamiliar to him.

To complement this, I have Sammer who gave all opponents a tough time with this dynamism and aggression. How will the front 3 or midfield settle when Sammer will be close to them hounding them down and keeping them under pressure throughout the match? One way to stop the best players is to prevent them from settling on the ball, and as seen with Suarez in particular on numerous occasions, when players don't settle on the ball, they struggle to have an influence on the game.
 
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mazhar13

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Whilst Figueroa and Bergomi look like a formidable partnership, there's a reason I went with Sheva and Cristiano up front. Both have done it all and scored a multitude and variety of goals against all sorts of defences, whether back 3's, back 4's, vs. 2 stoppers, stopper-sweeper combos, you name them. Sheva had many great seasons at AC Milan where he scored against the best defenders of the world, and Cristiano has scored 50+ goals per season, figures most would associate with great forwards of the pre-WWI era. There's no way my two strikers can be contained as they are quite capable of getting goals out of nothing.

Here is Sheva facing up Juve, including a certain Davids in there who could do nothing about him:

Here is Cristiano showing that he can pull a rabbit out of a hat himself:

Those players have done it on their own against top teams. There's no way they will definitely get contained by Enigma's defence if most of you think my formidable defence can't contain Enigma's attack.
 

mazhar13

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Also, have people already forgotten about Gianluca Zambrotta and the threat he poses out wide? This is the perfect role for him. He'll be able to put in dangerous deliveries for Pirri, Cristiano, and co., and he wasn't some slouch, defensively. He had a good amount of energy, which allowed him to track back and do his defensive work, too. Whilst I admire Ze Roberto myself, he wasn't really well-known for his defensive game. He has a good amount of energy to go back and forth, but Zambrotta himself is a natural fit out wide with his dribbling, pace, and two-footedness.

On the other end, I have Camacho who was a solid little terrier. If he ever got beaten, he would get right back and keep hounding opposition players. He wasn't one to just stay out wide either. He'd follow dangerous players around and make sure that they never get the time and space to play their game. If Suarez chooses to drift out wide, he does so knowing that he'll get instantly closed down by Camacho and never given time to settle on the ball.
 

mazhar13

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I'm also quite surprised at how people just put labels on players and make them out to be liabilities. I've shown how Le Tissier can be dangerous as the opposition will spend more time getting occupied with the other more dangerous players. If any midfielder tries to keep their eye on Le Tissier, they'll miss out on Cristiano, Sheva, Pogba, Sammer, Pirri, or Zambrotta. If Davids/Tigana try to close down Pogba, they do so with the risk of allowing Sammer to run riot and get into spaces. Keep in mind that Pogba's immaculate technique and vision shouldn't be forgotten about just because he's a "youth player." That label should not detract from his dazzling technique and appreciation of the football. His vision, passing precision, dribbling, and balance doesn't just disappear just because he's a "youth player".

And no, I didn't pick him just because of his popularity. I selected Pogba because of his great technique on the ball combined with his energy levels and athleticism to allow him to contribute to both ends of the pitch. His dribbling ability also makes him a potent wide threat, allowing Cristiano to make his runs into the goal without sacrificing the width.

Long video and some annoying music, but watch this to remind yourself of the high level of technique and ability that he has. How would he get fazed by Davids or Tigana trying to close him down?
 

mazhar13

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For all of the praise Tigana and Davids get for their box-to-box, all-rounded game, the same can be said for both Pirri and Sammer. Pirri was famous for his stamina and never-say-die attitude, and the same goes for Sammer. Pirri would just as quickly go back into his defensive positions as he would go forward on the attack. The same goes for Sammer.

Sammer in particular wasn't your traditional sweeper either. He wasn't one to just stay back and sweep up anything that breached the defensive line. He himself would drive forward and challenge anyone who would receive the ball in dangerous positions. He'd be the one who would plug the holes in the side, and his pressing and aggression would allow his teams to get back into their shape and close down the opposing ball holder's options. This role that he plays in my team is crucial as he'll keep every opposing ball player in our areas busy in settling on the ball.

Also, keep in mind that my forwards aren't playing in their fixed roles. They will be given the freedom to move around and get into spaces to receive the ball or make runs beyond Enigma's defence. They simply won't just face the defenders for much of the game.
 

Ecstatic

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@mazhar13

Thanks for your last posts. Your strategy is consistent and you're right to underline the exceptional qualities of:

- Pirri & Sammer that make your midfield consistent. Sammer who could play the role of defensive midfielder depending the circumstances. Pirri a very hard-working guy
- Scheva & Cr7

Zé Roberto & Le Tissier are mandatory 'legacy players'. If Zé Roberto is replaced by Maldini/Fachetti and Le Tissier by Platini/Maradona, not the same voting results...

That's why, I'm uncomfortable with some games in the R1. Next time, I think it would be wiser to have the right to choose our 'legacy player'/sheeps as we did with the 'youth players'.
 

Chesterlestreet

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The nomination model is the main problem, as I see it. The chances of someone getting a player who in one way or another is considerably different from the average, is significantly greater. EAP said himself that on reflection he'd rather have picked all 16 himself - and I agree with this.
 

P-Nut

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I've gone with Mazhar. His team just looks more balanced to me. His youth player is in his preferred position and with sammer pushing up behind him will have license to affect the game.

Pele playing with Rivaldo and Suarez doesn't sit right with me also along with the fact Enigma says Seedorf will be sitting quite deep so as not to get in the way of Pele. That means he has 3 players attacking Mazhars back line most of the time and I don't see how that will work with them all being quite narrow.
 

Enigma_87

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I've gone with Mazhar. His team just looks more balanced to me. His youth player is in his preferred position and with sammer pushing up behind him will have license to affect the game.

Pele playing with Rivaldo and Suarez doesn't sit right with me also along with the fact Enigma says Seedorf will be sitting quite deep so as not to get in the way of Pele. That means he has 3 players attacking Mazhars back line most of the time and I don't see how that will work with them all being quite narrow.
What problems do you see with Pele, Rivaldo and Suarez mate?

Seedorf will push up when Pele pushes up so he will have a chance to use his long range shooting with congested defence. Same can be said about Rivaldo cutting in and Ze Roberto and Bessonov so there are quite a few routes to goal.

I need Seedorf to link midfield with defence with attack. Besides when we attack we can attack in numbers especially since Mazhar will sit deep.

Mazhar has more issues with width as the only natural attacking players capable in operating wide are Ronaldo and Zambrotta. Camacho is a great defender(one of the best in fact) but not as good going forward as certain Ze Roberto.

I don't think Mazhar's defensive line can stay with Pele in the air for example, or even Suarez will be a threat on crosses.

Having 3 natural goalscorers with the support of full backs and Seedorf IMO is considerable attacking threat.
 

mazhar13

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Seedorf will push up when Pele pushes up so he will have a chance to use his long range shooting with congested defence. Same can be said about Rivaldo cutting in and Ze Roberto and Bessonov so there are quite a few routes to goal.
So, pretty much, your only sources of width are your wing backs? I don't see Rivaldo or Suarez doing that. Both of them, at the furthest, will occupy the inside channels, so you will basically congest the midfield. This is absolutely perfect for me. With Summer, Pirri, and Pogba putting tons of pressure on the midfield and keeping things tight, you will barely have any options through the middle. This is exactly how I saw the match panning out, and then with my wing backs also being quite hardworking, your team will be forced into giving the ball away more often than not.
I need Seedorf to link midfield with defence with attack. Besides when we attack we can attack in numbers especially since Mazhar will sit deep.
I wish I was able to spend more time on the Caf just so I could falsify this statement. I already stated in my OP that we will play with a higher line than normal and look to keep the field compact, particularly with Neuer as the sweeper keeper, speedy defenders in Vierchowod and Zambrotta, and tireless runners in Camacho, Vierchowod, Rosato, Sammer, and Zambrotta. If I had someone sluggish like Terry, for example, you have a point, but not this time.
Mazhar has more issues with width as the only natural attacking players capable in operating wide are Ronaldo and Zambrotta. Camacho is a great defender(one of the best in fact) but not as good going forward as certain Ze Roberto.
Another wrong statement. I have Pogba who naturally likes to drift out to the left wing and influence games from there. Pogba has been crucial to Juve in his left central midfield role under both Conte and especially Allegri. In Juve's diamond, Pogba is the main source of width on the left particularly as Evra is quite old and not fit enough to cover the full flank. As you can see from the Pogba video I posted earlier, Pogba spends lots of his time on the left flank, providing the width and stretching the play. He will do the same here and drag your midfielders out of shape. Of your midfielders choose to leave him they do so at their own peril.
I don't think Mazhar's defensive line can stay with Pele in the air for example, or even Suarez will be a threat on crosses.
That's absolutely wrong. My defenders are all strong in the air. Vierchowod, in particular, was quite strong in the air. Rosato may have been shorter than normal, but that didn't make him aerially weak. He had a good leap for a short defender that allowed him to be as good as he was at the back.
Having 3 natural goalscorers with the support of full backs and Seedorf IMO is considerable attacking threat.
Interestingly, I possess the same attacking threat, except that my game plan of suffocating you and keeping things tight and compact will force your team into more mistakes than normal, thus allowing my attacking players to capitalise on the gaps on the quick break.
 

Enigma_87

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So, pretty much, your only sources of width are your wing backs? I don't see Rivaldo or Suarez doing that. Both of them, at the furthest, will occupy the inside channels, so you will basically congest the midfield. This is absolutely perfect for me. With Summer, Pirri, and Pogba putting tons of pressure on the midfield and keeping things tight, you will barely have any options through the middle. This is exactly how I saw the match panning out, and then with my wing backs also being quite hardworking, your team will be forced into giving the ball away more often than not.
No. My sources of width are Rivaldo dropping left, Suarez dropping right(as shown in the video I posted), Ze Roberto, Bessonov and occasionally Tigana/Davids. That's 6 players comfortable playing wide and dropping wide as well. Rivaldo played as a left wing forward in his prime at Barcelona in a 4-3-3 with Figo on the right side and Kluivert/Anderson in the middle. He's comfortable as it gets, plus he'll have a massive support from Ze Roberto there. You'll need Sammer to follow Pele for sure, I don't think his impact on midfield will be that massive that you are trying to describe it. If you get Sammer to help the midfield that would free Pele against your two center backs and Suarez/Rivaldo in the mix. Pele played in congested defences/midfields in his whole career it's not something he's not used to. Also all of my midfielders and forwards are very comfortable on the ball and working into tight spaces. Seedorf, Tigana, Davids, Rivaldo, Pele, Suarez, Ze Roberto are as technical as it gets.

A nice video of Pele:

In the middle of that video there is an interview with Pele which he describes his position on the pitch - that he wasn't a center forward, used to come from behind and play deeper and help the midfield as he describes himself as often a "third men" in attack.

I'm not sure having Pogba in a holding role is the best idea to use him as well. We have seen him in such a role at the EURO and he didn't excel there(here he will have a lot of defensive and covering to do having in mind Le Tiss would be a passenger in midfield). Our midfield possesses a lot of dynamic characteristics and will move a lot, which will stretch the play not be static at all.

I wish I was able to spend more time on the Caf just so I could falsify this statement. I already stated in my OP that we will play with a higher line than normal and look to keep the field compact, particularly with Neuer as the sweeper keeper, speedy defenders in Vierchowod and Zambrotta, and tireless runners in Camacho, Vierchowod, Rosato, Sammer, and Zambrotta. If I had someone sluggish like Terry, for example, you have a point, but not this time.
If you play a higher line that suits me the best. Higher line will mean more space in behind your defensive line. You are having 3 central defenders playing in a line with Sammer moving forward, which means Suarez can play in his best role - on the shoulder on the last defender and I don't think Rosato can keep a peak Suarez or Rivaldo at bay during the game. Neuer is a great sweeper keeper granted, but a high line against Rivaldo/Pele/Suarez forward line is asking for trouble. They need probably 2-3 chances in this game to win it.


Another wrong statement. I have Pogba who naturally likes to drift out to the left wing and influence games from there. Pogba has been crucial to Juve in his left central midfield role under both Conte and especially Allegri. In Juve's diamond, Pogba is the main source of width on the left particularly as Evra is quite old and not fit enough to cover the full flank. As you can see from the Pogba video I posted earlier, Pogba spends lots of his time on the left flank, providing the width and stretching the play. He will do the same here and drag your midfielders out of shape. Of your midfielders choose to leave him they do so at their own peril.
Pogba had Khedira, Vidal, Marchisio, Pirlo - usually two of them next to him in Juve midfield. Here he's asked to do a lot of defensive work - he and Pirri. They are up against one of the most defensive sound midfielders in the game on top with excellent technical ability and can keep possession. I don't think in this game particular you can let Pogba spend a lot of time on the flank, because that would leave your midfield quite open. If you leave either of our forward line in 1 on 1 situation it's asking for trouble.
They don't need much space either - take for example Rivaldo:


^^ second and third goal from that compilation, as well as many others of course.

That's absolutely wrong. My defenders are all strong in the air. Vierchowod, in particular, was quite strong in the air. Rosato may have been shorter than normal, but that didn't make him aerially weak. He had a good leap for a short defender that allowed him to be as good as he was at the back.

Pele had enormous jump, Here your tallest defender is 2 inches higher than him at most. He used to jump above much taller defenders than him. Bergomi and Figueroa on set pieces have a good 2-3 inch advantage as well.


Interestingly, I possess the same attacking threat, except that my game plan of suffocating you and keeping things tight and compact will force your team into more mistakes than normal, thus allowing my attacking players to capitalise on the gaps on the quick break.
I don't think your players are dynamic enough to do what you expect them to do. I don't think Pogba can keep with the defensive work he's tasked to do or Sammer can cover the same ground as Pele will hovering around. With more possession on our side it would be us that will stretch the play and move your defenders/midfielders out of position - not the other way around.
 

Chesterlestreet

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My thoughts:

I don't really fancy Enigma's attacking trio. I think there's something slightly off there, and for me it's compounded by Seedorf in that AM-ish role.

Probably due to me not rating Seedorf that highly as anything but a truly excellent side kick of sorts. To me, he's a high end utility player more than someone you'd trust to function as a creative powerhouse. *

Davids and Tigana are unquestionable - perfectly suited to what they're tasked with here. Bezsonov is brilliant and well suited to the task. Ze Roberto will do a job here - no problem with him as such. But he wasn't great defensively, a point worth bringing up since mazhar's defence has been questioned more than Enigma's in this match (that's my impression), in spite of him fielding first rate defenders across his three-man line, and wingbacks of a generally high quality: Zambrotta plays his natural game here, there is no question marks over him - and Camacho played as something like a wingback too, as well as a more straight side back/fullback, and was generally a top notch player (even in this context).

Le Tissier: The problem with him is that he sticks out like a sore thumb as an AM/No 10 in an all-time context. If you look at how he'd conceivably perform in this virtual match, however, he could be dangerous enough if nobody bothers to shut him down: He's extremely dangerous from range, for instance. But Le Tissier, for me, isn't someone you can expect to orchestrate an attack that would greatly benefit Ronaldo and Sheva - he falls well short of what you need in that capacity.

It's also a fact that in an all-time context, and given the constraints of this particular draft, what looks like a trio of sorts, consisting of Pirri (unquestionable himself at this stage), Pogba (the youth player) and Le Tissier (the Legacy player) - looks underwhelming.

* This remark is general more than specific to this particular match - I'm not saying that Enigma has portrayed him as a "creative powerhouse".
 

Enigma_87

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My thoughts:

I don't really fancy Enigma's attacking trio. I think there's something slightly off there, and for me it's compounded by Seedorf in that AM-ish role.

Probably due to me not rating Seedorf that highly as anything but a truly excellent side kick of sorts. To me, he's a high end utility player more than someone you'd trust to function as a creative powerhouse. *

Davids and Tigana are unquestionable - perfectly suited to what they're tasked with here. Bezsonov is brilliant and well suited to the task. Ze Roberto will do a job here - no problem with him as such. But he wasn't great defensively, a point worth bringing up since mazhar's defence has been questioned more than Enigma's in this match (that's my impression), in spite of him fielding first rate defenders across his three-man line, and wingbacks of a generally high quality: Zambrotta plays his natural game here, there is no question marks over him - and Camacho played as something like a wingback too, as well as a more straight side back/fullback, and was generally a top notch player (even in this context).
* This remark is general more than specific to this particular match - I'm not saying that Enigma has portrayed him as a "creative powerhouse".
I think the attacking trio would work pretty well IMO (obviously of course since I picked 2 of them :) ). It is complimentary and the three of them play in their natural positions - Suarez off the last defender and roaming forward - thus creating space. Pele in the middle so that he can play in a less crowded area, receive the ball not with his back to the goal and make a run into the box. And lastly Rivaldo in his favorite LW side where he can either make a run into the box, put a cross in or receive the ball just outside the box in space.

As for Seedorf - there are better playmakers sure, but he has excellent distribution both short and long passes and he brings an extra steel in midfield. Tigana and Davids would cover the flanks as well so I needed some work rate in the middle as well. He's not an AM in this formation but rather CM with some playmaking functions but also protects the central midfield and links with the attack. Of course when there is a space in front of him he'll fill it up and push forward. But his position is more of a CM rather than AM.
 

Raees

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Don't agree with Le Tiss getting so much criticism. Technically he holds his own here.. I mean yes he is not an all time great but he's no donkey. The worst I can see him do is fluff chances and have a quiet game but he wouldn't be a huge hindrance who is woefully out of his depth here if we assume he is in peak form

My issue with Mazhars team is the midfield which I don't like.. not a huge fan of Pogba in centre and Cristiano struggles against tight defences in the modern era and against that level of defenders he'd struggle big time in this set up where so much is expected from him.
 
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Chesterlestreet

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Don't agree with Le Tiss getting so much criticism. Technically he holds his own here.. I mean yes he is not an all time great but he's no donkey.
He's no AM to speak of either, that's the problem. There is no proper orchestrator on the park. Creativity - sure. Both Pogba and Le Tissier offer that in their own way - but there is no proper playmaker there, certainly not on the highest level.

And the criticism of Le Tissier is - obviously - not that he's a donkey, but that he has a post you'd otherwise expect to be manned by a GOAT-ish player of some description, given the theme of the draft.

I've said this before, probably, but Le Tissier's particular genius is of a nature it is not easy to capitalize on in drafts.

Look at the teams he played in - and then look at how you'd improve those teams while at the same time getting the best out of Le Tissier: Would you a) add more players of a significantly higher quality, who are naturally suited to running the show, being key operators, or focal points, or whatever you want to call it - or b) add more players of a significantly higher quality who are best suited to play the parts of supporting cast OR who offer something more immediately dangerous in terms of box play/direct attacking threat?

I'd go for b) myself.

And that is - for obvious reasons - a big problem in an all-time setting.

Ideally, I would cast Le Tissier as a second striker behind a sheer CF who offers speed, physicality and considerable goal threat.

Behind them? Something like Fergie's grand bank of four. Something like that - with Le Tissier in a Cantona-ish role.
 
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Raees

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He's no AM to speak of either, that's the problem. There is no proper orchestrator on the park. Creativity - sure. Both Pogba and Le Tissier offer that in their own way - but there is no proper playmaker there, certainly not on the highest level.

And the criticism of Le Tissier is - obviously - not that he's a donkey, but that he has a post you'd otherwise expect to be manned by a GOAT-ish player of some description, given the theme of the draft.
Agree that he isn't an AM and with Pogba there.. it exacerbates the situation.

LE Tiss in a strong creative team as a support striker would be fine. In this side.. he would be exposed as he's more of a highlights player.
 

Enigma_87

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Le Tiss is more of a SS to me as well. He doesn't have the movement or work rate to be part of a 3 man midfield especially in more intensive tempo. You could see him huffing and puffing in the second half in most games(still had stamina to finish them mind).

I think Chester was spot on in his initial remark of sticking him off a main, heavy hitting striker - that's probably the best way to utilize him in this context, but that would mean probably a 4-4-2 of sorts for Mazhar which would've been tough to execute, especially with Pogba in a 2 man midfield.

Especially in an all time context he's a bit luxury player to have. I don't think there's doubt in his skills but rather how to use him in order not to look that much out of shape, especially compared of other playmakers and #10s in history.

Anyhow commiserations @mazhar13 I think you did a very good job of fielding a functional team with what you had at your disposal and putting up front some creative ideas for set up and formation as always.
 

Gio

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I quite liked Theon's use of Le Tissier in the Premiership draft:

 

Ecstatic

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These quote summarize well his career.

Q /You won only eight caps, which is a scandal. Which do you think hampered your chances of playing for England more: playing for the Saints or the type of player you were?

Le Tissier: My reputation for being lazy hampered me more than staying at Southampton. It was during my best spell, under Bally, that I was dropped from Terry Venables' squad, so that was frustrating. I think maybe England managers weren't brave enough to change their formation to accommodate me.
In an interview with The Sun, Xavi - in 2010 - about Le Tissier

Xavi:

"The man I absolutely loved watching as a kid was Matt Le Tissier after seeing the highlights of his extraordinary goals.

"His talent was out of the norm. He could dribble past seven or eight players but without speed - he just walked past them. For me he was sensational.

"We had a programme on Spanish TV with the best goals from around Europe. He was always the star.

"I was ten or even younger. He was definitely an idol."
 
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Chesterlestreet

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but that would mean probably a 4-4-2 of sorts for Mazhar which would've been tough to execute, especially with Pogba in a 2 man midfield.
He couldn't have gone for Pogba as his youth player - no.

Team up Pirri with any number of suitable candidates, draft in (or buy) a couple of first rate wide men (very possible in this draft - they weren't in high demand, really)...and. Well, the obvious strategical move would have been to go for a youth GK.

The problem which remains, of course, is that he had to accomodate C. Ronaldo.

A bold solution:

Youth GK

Allrounder RB - Rosato - Vierchowod - Camacho

C. Ronaldo (United version) - Pirri - Allrounder CM - Zagallo (who wasn't picked)

Le Tissier

Best available CF
Priority picks/buys: CF - CM - RB, in that order.

Get in top-of-the-line men in those positions, and you have something you can sell.

You can also consider upgrading Rosato * - depending on what funds you have available, etc.

* Maybe going for someone more "cultured" but still a top notch defender.
 
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Enigma_87

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He couldn't have gone for Pogba as his youth player - no.

Team up Pirri with any number of suitable candidates, draft in (or buy) a couple of first rate wide men (very possible in this draft - they weren't in high demand, really)...and. Well, the obvious strategical move would have been to go for a youth GK.

The problem which remains, of course, is that he had to accomodate C. Ronaldo.

A bold solution:

Youth GK

Allrounder RB - Rosato - Vierchowod - Camacho

C. Ronaldo (United version) - Pirri - Allrounder CM - Zagallo (who wasn't picked)

Le Tissier

Best available CF
Priority picks/buys: CF - CM - RB, in that order.

Get in top-of-the-line men in those positions, and you have something you can sell.

You can also consider upgrading Rosato * - depending on what funds you have available, etc.

* Maybe going for someone more "cultured" but still a top notch defender.
If it wasn't for Pogba I'd imagine something like this:

Youth GK

Allrounder RB - Rosato - Vierchowod - Camacho

Jair - Pirri - Allrounder CM - Gento

Le Tissier

C.Ronaldo(Real version)

With what there was already at disposal as Gento was already picked. And get a top CB, RB and CM. The CM can be box to box as well, Pirri would make a good playmaker albeit playing most of his peak at DM.

Or instead of Pogba - Kroos.

My initial idea(before Cal? blew us off the water with bidding up for Kroos) was to have a Davids-Kroos-Tigana midfield with rest the same and Dasayev as a keeper.

But again with the youth players there weren't that many options to begin with. If not for the keeper it was Verratti(I think Skizzo/Pat picked him up before the auction), Neymar and Alaba(bot T-bola'ed) and Kroos as a hot commodity. Apart from those 4 I had Carvajal as an option and rest of them keepers as a shotlist(DDG, Courtois, Leno, Oblak) which was about it.

Still mazhar fielded a very functional line up however trying to accommodate a youth player and a legacy player in a 3 men midfield would always be a tough job.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Would have been possibly tricky to sell Ronaldo as a pure CF, though.

Many seemingly think that is precisely what he should be - as it were - given his current game, but he is unproven (a huge factor in drafts, as we know) as such.

I'm actually a bit puzzled that he hasn't featured in his United incarnation more often in these drafts. He should be very easy to sell.
 

harms

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He couldn't have gone for Pogba as his youth player - no.

Team up Pirri with any number of suitable candidates, draft in (or buy) a couple of first rate wide men (very possible in this draft - they weren't in high demand, really)...and. Well, the obvious strategical move would have been to go for a youth GK.

The problem which remains, of course, is that he had to accomodate C. Ronaldo.

A bold solution:

Youth GK

Allrounder RB - Rosato - Vierchowod - Camacho

C. Ronaldo (United version) - Pirri - Allrounder CM - Zagallo (who wasn't picked)

Le Tissier

Best available CF
Priority picks/buys: CF - CM - RB, in that order.

Get in top-of-the-line men in those positions, and you have something you can sell.

You can also consider upgrading Rosato * - depending on what funds you have available, etc.

* Maybe going for someone more "cultured" but still a top notch defender.
He won't have any GOAT players in his side that way, which is a huge turn-off. Ronaldo on the right was exciting but he needs a free role on the left to achieve his career hights
 

mazhar13

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I'm in my break time, I can say something quickly.

I honestly should have been bold and dropped both Sammer and Cristiano from my 1st XI. It would have raised eyebrows, sure, but at least I would have a more functional team to work with instead. Those two made it difficult for me to set up what I initially wanted, hence why I went with what I did.

Ultimately, though, my team got misinterpreted by maby, but whatever, I was not present often enough to correct others.
 

Ecstatic

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I'm in my break time, I can say something quickly.

I honestly should have been bold and dropped both Sammer and Cristiano from my 1st XI. It would have raised eyebrows, sure, but at least I would have a more functional team to work with instead. Those two made it difficult for me to set up what I initially wanted, hence why I went with what I did.

Ultimately, though, my team got misinterpreted by maby, but whatever, I was not present often enough to correct others.
What do you mean by 'more functional team'?