The effect of takeover uncertainty…

[Pogue Mahone]

I heard someone say recently that a lot of what’s going on at Newcastle can be put down to the players being excited to be playing for a club that’s on the up. They all want to be part of a project that can win them medals and make them very wealthy. Which causes fierce competition for places and a squad full of footballers who are optimistic, excited and passionate about their club.

At United nobody knows where this club is going. It’s been a shit show for a decade and, for all we know, could be going from bad to worse under new ownership, while we’re hamstrung by FFP. Is it plausible that this is a factor in so many players going through the motions? They’re basically in a holding pattern, ready to look for their next move if/when this latest effort to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic dies a death.

Or does the ownership status of a club have no effect on performances?

 

[didz]

Of course it has an effect. Players and staff will be talking about it amongst themselves and staring at the fog in the distance, as is human nature.

United just doesn't seem like a nice place to be right now. You can even see it in the language of our players and coach, who often speak about being willing to suffer and sacrifice, or similar. That's not positive language - a team on the up relishes challenges and looks forward to the competition. They enjoy their bloody football at least.

But nobody knows what's going on. There can't be any sort of plan because there's so much uncertainty, to the point where we don't even really know what our goal is this season or the next, beyond "get that CL money."

I'm sure that "we go again" is as tedious to those contracted to the club as it is to us supporting it. We're pushing a boulder up a hill and for all we know there's nothing at the summit besides a cackling Avram and Joel counting coins.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Of course it has an effect. Players and staff will be talking about it amongst themselves and staring at the fog in the distance, as is human nature.

United just doesn't seem like a nice place to be right now. You can even see it in the language of our players and coach, who often speak about being willing to suffer and sacrifice, or similar. That's not positive language - a team on the up relishes challenges and looks forward to the competition. They enjoy their bloody football at least.

But nobody knows what's going on. There can't be any sort of plan because there's so much uncertainty, to the point where we don't even really know what our goal is this season or the next, beyond "get that CL money."

I'm sure that "we go again" is as tedious to those contracted to the club as it is to us supporting it. We're pushing a boulder up a hill and for all we know there's nothing at the summit besides a cackling Avram and Joel counting coins.

Yeah, I think there’s something in that. When at a club where the goal seems to be nothing more than securing top 4 football you can see why players might start to see their job as just that, a job. A very well paid job but not one where they bother to go above and beyond to chase the very fine margins you need to be part of a winning football team.

 

[Bubz27]

Glazers aren't the ones not running and not passing etc or some other bollocks. It's clear as day working for a company where management and ownership are incompetent will have a negative effect on everyone's morale.

 

[Redstain]

It's relative United have already sustained what Newcastle are hoping to build to. So you could almost say that it cancels itself out. Newcastle were a team around relegation fodder and hit the jackpot that's totally different from a sleeping giant where many of the players United sign and work with would have been familiar with the clubs past so the expectation is different.

I think clarity with the takeover is beneficial but it won't generate enough momentum in the squad and staff to cause the pendulum to swing. The foundation to success is still going to depend on quality coaching, good management and consistent performances from the players.

 

[Buster15]

Just more excuses I am afraid.

 

[Flying high]

Of course it's a factor. A change of leadership might help, but only if there's tangible change.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Yeah, I think there’s something in that. When at a club where the goal seems to be nothing more than securing top 4 football you can see why players might start to see their job as just that, a job. A very well paid job but not one where they bother to go above and beyond to chase the very fine margins you need to be part of a winning football team.

You also look at consequences for players for under performing. How long does city hold onto under performers? Would Martial last a decade at City?

For all the complaints about managers, there’s so many players not good enough that every new manager has to suffer fitting into their squads.

United is uniquely sh*t at squad management. Any well run club would have changed how its transfer dealings are being done and how players are identified, but not United.

F*cking clown shop club

 

[golden_blunder]

25% investment isn’t new ownership so they can stop using that as an excuse if they are

 

[DRJosh]

United is a stale place to be at the moment. Rancid even. A new minority stake will only open the back door, but the smell will linger

 

[devilish]

25% investment isn’t new ownership so they can stop using that as an excuse if they are

this. It might rattle the higher ups but for the squad its business as usual

 

[Scottynaldinho]

Just more excuses I am afraid.

ATDTH - Anything to defend Ten Hag

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

25% investment isn’t new ownership so they can stop using that as an excuse if they are

I came to say similar.

This isn’t a takeover ladies & gentlemen, it’s the world’s most expensive copy of Football Manager.

There’s always some excuse with our players!

 

[Pexbo]

25% investment isn’t new ownership so they can stop using that as an excuse if they are

I’m pretty sure they’re not really thinking about who owns what percentage of shares, rather than, you know… the CEO being replaced, the entire football structure being overhauled, the scouts that recommended them likely being sacked off, the incoming minority owner briefing that he’s unhappy with basically everything that brought almost every one of them into the club, the uncertainty over their own futures due to absolutely no clarity in how the club intends to move forward, what type of football we will attempt to play, if the current manager will be a part of that, not knowing who they need to impress and how and being generally demotivated because they look around the squad and see exactly the same anxieties and demotivating factors destroying almost every single one of their team mates.

 

[golden_blunder]

I’m pretty sure they’re not really thinking about who owns what percentage of shares, rather than, you know… the CEO being replaced, the entire football structure being overhauled, the scouts that recommended them likely being sacked off, the incoming minority owner briefing that he’s unhappy with basically everything that brought almost every one of them into the club, the uncertainty over their own futures due to absolutely no clarity in how the club intends to move forward, what type of football we will attempt to play, if the current manager will be a part of that, not knowing who they need to impress and how and being generally demotivated because they look around the squad and see exactly the same anxieties and demotivating factors destroying almost every single one of their team mates.

ETH is in place now. The fans are always in place. That’s who they need to impress.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

I can see the argument that this isn’t an ideal situation for success but it’s not enough of a reason to justify such an underperformance. Turn up to training and work your arse off, follow the managers instructions and give 100% on the pitch. There’s 75,000 people cheering you on and millions watching on tele, if you can’t motivate yourself for them because you’re worried that a new owner will have higher standards and maybe you will have to find a new club in 6 months then maybe professional competitive sport isn’t for you.

 

[Red00012]

Ooh look at me I’m gonna stop giving a feck and not trying on the field because a quarter of the club I work for might be sold

 

[Leftback99]

Nah. Same players, same garbage they've been serving up for years. Just more excuses.

 

[elmo]

I heard someone say recently that a lot of what’s going on at Newcastle can be put down to the players being excited to be playing for a club that’s on the up. They all want to be part of a project that can win them medals and make them very wealthy. Which causes fierce competition for places and a squad full of footballers who are optimistic, excited and passionate about their club.

At United nobody knows where this club is going. It’s been a shit show for a decade and, for all we know, could be going from bad to worse under new ownership, while we’re hamstrung by FFP. Is it plausible that this is a factor in so many players going through the motions? They’re basically in a holding pattern, ready to look for their next move if/when this latest effort to rearrange the deckchairs on the Titanic dies a death.

Or does the ownership status of a club have no effect on performances?

Ownership is important because our owners don’t give a shit as long as we get CL football.

It’s clear footballing reasons take a backseat over commercial decisions. The likes of Rashford and Scott would be shown the door years ago if the club weren’t obsessed with keeping the record of having an academy player in the squad.

Certain players can get away with being trash while some needs a miracle to get a chance in the lineup.

Players fitness and improvements are non-existent once they sign for us and preseason is basically the team trying to milk as much money as possible instead of getting the squad ready for the season.

Best part of it all, some fans are obsessed with finding excuses for the players and blame everything but the players for not even showing the bare minimum of effort on the pitch.

Basically everything is a mess but the players should still show some fecking effort instead of being fecking entitled pricks.

 

[Steve Bruce]

You also look at consequences for players for under performing. How long does city hold onto under performers? Would Martial last a decade at City?

For all the complaints about managers, there’s so many players not good enough that every new manager has to suffer fitting into their squads.

United is uniquely sh*t at squad management. Any well run club would have changed how its transfer dealings are being done and how players are identified, but not United.

F*cking clown shop club

If you go through our squad, it really is well below the requirements needed to succeed.

GK Onana - started of very badly then had a good run and then cost us again in the champions league. He was also poor against Newcastle yesterday. I have zero confidence in him, his GK technique is unorthodox to be kind or bad to be honest. Bombscare at crosses and often with simple shots

RB AWB imo is the better of the 2 but none of them would get into any of the top sides outside of Liverpool where I personally think TAA is the most over rated player to play the game.

LB shaw he's probably the only defender we have that is actually good enough for United but he does pick up injuries.

CB martinez I'm a fan, but is he really top class? Had a very good season last season and if he can repeat that when he gets back then he is a top player.

Cb varane, misses near half the matches per season. Top class operator but we need someone that can play 50+ games a season.

Cb lindelof good squad player, not good enough to be a regular

Cb maguire not good enough vs any top sides. Good against the lutons and Sheffield Uniteds of the world.

Cb Evans see maguire

Cm Ericsson past it and can't play 90 minutes or twice a week.

Cm casemiro fantastic last season poor this season. I'm personally hoping this is a team issue rather than cass being done.

Cm amrabat, hasn't started well
Cm mount, never understood this signing, also hasn't started well

Cm Bruno, love him but I do think his lack of care on the ball is hindering us. But unfortunately we haven't got anyone to take his place because no one is performing well enough to threaten him and Bruno does create and score if nothing else.

Mctominay can't understand why he's constantly picked by managers. He's at best a mid table player.

LW rashford, once upon a time he looked like he could be world class, but he's not. He's lazy, temperamental and vastly over paid.

Rw, are any of them actually good enough, they all seem to be different shades of average. Pellestri and amad, there's a chance one can come good, but I wouldn't put my house on it. Antony was a terrible signing and sancho has the ability but not the minerals to be a united player

Cf Rasmus, shouldn't be leading the line. He should be an understudy to an experienced top striker. Feel sorry for him

Cf Martial, too injury prone. Had all the potential to be a top player but any time he seems to be getting any form or rhythm he breaks down.

I purposely didn't mention mainoo, gore, garnacho etc because they're youngsters who are still developing and nothing to do with the rubbish we've been served up recently.

I've possibly missed a few out, some like VDB because he's not really part of it any more and will be going and others I've just overlooked. But if you go through are squad, it doesn't bode well. Obviously this is just my opinion and I'm sure plenty will disagree but I think we need nearly a full first team and squad.

 

[Oranges038]

I think that the negativity surrounding the owners seeps into every facet of the club. From the ticket office to the first team.

If you have that around you every day, it's hard not to be affected by it mentally, it will impact on training, drain you mentally and if you're not training right, you may as well forget about going out to a game an expect to turn it on. It ain't going to happen, not at this level anyway.

 

[yumtum]

They'd have clarity and certainty over their futures if they put effort in and performed consistently.

You think a new manager, president or scouts coming in at Real Madrid would sell Bellingham even though they played no part in bringing him in? No, they'd be stupid because he's performing at an elite level, the same cannot be said for 100% of the staff at Manchester United.

 

[DWelbz19]

Just more excuses I am afraid.

Yep.

 

[Pexbo]

ETH is in place now. The fans are always in place. That’s who they need to impress.

That’s beyond simple.

 

[Based Adnan]

The impending takeover must be the reason why our midfield could fit a black hole in it

 

[didz]

It's incredible how many people don't know the difference between a reason and an excuse.

 

[golden_blunder]

That’s beyond simple.

It’s that simple. They shouldn’t be thinking about uncertains

 

[Berbaclass]

A lot of people are about to lose their jobs. It’s understandable that the atmosphere has turned a bit toxic. That has knock on effects throughout the club.

Top level sport has fine margins

 

[Judas]

It’s that simple. They shouldn’t be thinking about uncertains

They shouldn’t but they easily could be? It’s human nature.

 

[Lee565]

Christ, has ten hag not been given enough money to squander, the club has been given plenty of reasons to be optimistic over the years but has been underwhelming due to rubbish footballing directors ultimately hiring the wrong players and managers.

when we hired Jose and gave him 200 million to spend on the likes of pogba in his first summer, should we have not been optimistic? when we signed sancho, ronaldo and varane in the same summer should we have not been optimistic? When we hired supposedly modren possession based coach in ten hag and then gave him 250 million to spend on players, should we have not been optimistic?

There are no excuses for the manager, directors or players, they all (or mostly all in relation to players) just weren't/aren't good enough.

Look at arsenal as another example, I don't exactly remember the arsenal fans singing the praises of Stan kroenke for many, many years and were trying their best to get rid of him and were being viewed as a banter club for other fans to joke about and were just as toxic as us but after a few good decisions in recruitment across their whole footballing department they are seen as the complete of toxic now.

 

[Pexbo]

It’s that simple. They shouldn’t be thinking about uncertains

From the outside. You have absolutely zero idea what impact it has had internally. What you’re doing is essentially what people do when dismissing mental health. Just get over it. The reality is that it’s likely a toxic work environment currently and the uncertainty around the takeover has been a big factor in that.

If the played lived and worked in a vacuum you could dismiss it but they don’t, they are competing against other clubs with players of the same level who benefit from a stable, positive work environment. It’s ignorant to refuse to recognise that and go “hur hur, they are earning £300k a week they should show up to matches with a smile and get on with it”.

 

[golden_blunder]

They shouldn’t but they easily could be? It’s human nature.

I’d argue if they are that way inclined then you’d think that they would put full effort in now. It’s just an excuse for putting in little or no effort

 

[Champ]

It's clear how much ownership affects performance on the pitch.
Newcastle are a prime example, the turnaround when Ashley left was massive.
We've seen it too at clubs like Blackpool, Leeds and Bolton whereby the ownership or lack thereof pulls the club down.
There is no doubt in my mind that the struggles of this season are in part related to the off pitch farce that has become the ownership battle.

 

[golden_blunder]

From the outside. You have absolutely zero idea what impact it has had internally. What you’re doing is essentially what people do when dismissing mental health. Just get over it. The reality is that it’s likely a toxic work environment currently and the uncertainty around the takeover has been a big factor in that.

If the played lived and worked in a vacuum you could dismiss it but they don’t, they are competing against other clubs with players of the same level who benefit from a stable, positive work environment. It’s ignorant to refuse to recognise that and go “hur hur, they are earning £300k a week they should show up to matches with a smile and get on with it”.

And you’re assuming that it has a bigger impact than perhaps it does? The reality is that neither of us know. But some facts here, they are all professional footballers so we should be expecting a level of professionalism, if they are so frightened what may happen IF a new structure is put in place then surely the natural thing to do is to bust a gut to try and make yourself needed

sorry but all I’m reading are excuses, every week a different excuse comes out. When will we stop doing that and let reality bite, that many of them simply aren’t good enough or do not have the mental fortitude to play for a club of this size with its demands? And I realise that latter bit of the statement puts demands on mental health but surely to be a winning team that’s what we need? We need winners not players who will buckle. We need hungry players not just those along for a jolly at United.

 

[Ali Dia]

We are under the footballing equivalent of an occupation. It’s oppressive and soulless and exists only to make money. Entertainment and winning is far down the list. Having the best group possible isn’t a priority. It’s terrible ownership hiding in the shadows shaving the margins and running the club, employees, facilities and fans joy into the ground.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's incredible how many people don't know the difference between a reason and an excuse.

Never mind getting their head around the possibility our problems might be multifactorial.

 

[Greyfog]

With all the uncertainty surrounding the sale, it has never come close to the players not been paid thier salaries. That is the first thing that would affect them. If the Glazers were looking to cut their losses and maybe sell to someone who would struggle to meet the financial responsibility of running the club then yea it might affect them.

That Saudi was in the running to buy the club you would think the players will be playing out of their skin to impress at the thought of all that underhand payments that will be coming their way like the City players (I keep hearing on here). SJR is no mug either so no I don't think the situation affects the players.

 

[Pexbo]

And you’re assuming that it has a bigger impact than perhaps it does? The reality is that neither of us know. But some facts here, they are all professional footballers so we should be expecting a level of professionalism, if they are so frightened what may happen IF a new structure is put in place then surely the natural thing to do is to bust a gut to try and make yourself needed

sorry but all I’m reading are excuses, every week a different excuse comes out. When will we stop doing that and let reality bite, that many of them simply aren’t good enough or do not have the mental fortitude to play for a club of this size with its demands? And I realise that latter bit of the statement puts demands on mental health but surely to be a winning team that’s what we need? We need winners not players who will buckle. We need hungry players not just those along for a jolly at United.

Have you ever worked in a toxic environment?

 

[golden_blunder]

Have you ever worked in a toxic environment?

Yes, in fact I currently work in what I’d consider a toxic company.

 

[Denis79]

We are all looking for a single issue that would fix our predicament but I think it is a mix of all things, the uncertaintity of the take-over, poor transfers, injuries, ETH not being the manager we need.

But yeah, I am sure it does effect the players somewhat.