A CB man marker, yes, definitely. I would not question it if he was marking Baros, he'd be great at it. But he's marking an attacking midfielder, which is a completely different man marking job than he's used to and good at.
The Euro Draft - QF - Aldo vs Joga Bonito
- Thread starter Balu
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
He was at fault (though who can defend against Dzajic, no-one
)But England game against Soviet Union for the 3rd place should count too.
Extremely central? Rui Costa, Van Basten and Muller is what you call extremely central. Nedved can go wide, so can Iniesta. Before you go off you rocker, he won't be dealing blows through the middle and stretching play at the same time. We have 90 minutes, so a lot of plans are set to be implemented as the situation demands.
Sure thing.
He was excellent in that game and it wasn't more his fault but rather Dzajic's piece of magic and he was brilliant in the game against a strong Soviet Union side which I will post gifs of later in the main thread (along with the Demyanenko's displays against Italy and Netherlands).
I could very well post a video of Henry tearing Nesta a new one in the final, repeatedly leaving him on his arse but I'm not going to do that as I do acknowledge that Nesta had a fine tournament overall in Euro 2000.
Also I do not buy Happel in that role at all. He hardly looked like a defender capable of dealing with Kalle from what I've seen of him and his Euro credentials are simply not there to be in such a demanding match. I'll leave others to decide if he can cope with the rapid Kalle (who was the star of the Euro 1980) or not.
Well there you go then. You can count the third place game if you want, fine by me, but the semi was the one he needed to win, obviously.
Anyway, I am not really interested in down playing him, but fair's fair and I have to do that if the opponent wants to.
Difference is, that was the only meaningful game in that Euro, and in this draft, that Moore played. And he cost his team a goal.
Anyway, I really have to go now.
See ya later.Yes, if you read more about that match you'd find that England lost due to myriad of reasons - tactical flaws, injuries to the likes of Stiles and Hurst, a misfiring forward line. Moore was excellent in that game bar one piece of magic by Dzajic and had a great game in the match against Soviet Union and was just one of the 2 Englishmen in the TOTM. It is no worse that Lahm's error in the final against Spain which cost them the game but doesn't take away anything from his performance overall.Difference is, that was the only meaningful game in that Euro, and in this draft, that Moore played. And he cost his team a goal.
Anyway, I really have to go now.
You can go, no one's stopping you
Just saw this, my problem with the Sarosi issue wasn't him playing as a false 9/complete centre-forward, it was that harms didn't have a disciplined/direct inside forward like say Ronaldo or Rummenigge but rather a free roaming Meazza and an outside left in Dzajic - which harms did later elaborate on. Here, Sindelar with the incisive Elkenigge, isn't going to be short of options and they are a complementary bunch. On the bulk issue, Sindelar was fairly lean but he did always use his sheer technique, mind-boggling dribbling, agility, great movement and his guile to outwit his markers/defenders. He also held his own against the extremely brash and violent marking of that particular era playing as a withdrawn forward, so I he won't be troubled here.
Bump. Will keep it low, seeing as Aldo isn't here.
Also keep in mind that Aldo isn't using an extreme possession based system but rather a more direct system which derives its inspiration from the Spain 08 side - as such there won't be any possession domination (Spain 08 averaged 55% possession iirc) but like I've stated in the OP they will have the edge there naturally, which does explain my slightly deepish defense and my prominent threat on the quick transitions/counter. There should be more than enough chances for Elkenigge and Sindelar with quality supply from Moore, Effenberg and Demyanenko, in addition to the creative Sindelar as well.
Demyanenko was equally capable on both flanks, he played on the right in the semi-finals and in the final.
Also keep in mind that Aldo isn't using an extreme possession based system but rather a more direct system which derives its inspiration from the Spain 08 side - as such there won't be any possession domination (Spain 08 averaged 55% possession iirc) but like I've stated in the OP they will have the edge there naturally, which does explain my slightly deepish defense and my prominent threat on the quick transitions/counter. There should be more than enough chances for Elkenigge and Sindelar with quality supply from Moore, Effenberg and Demyanenko, in addition to the creative Sindelar as well.
That couldn't be farther from the truth. You only have to look so far as the OP and the videos there to see how brilliant Elkenigge were in wider areas. They won't provide traditional width like say Beckhham but they will be a threat in the flanks and the channels with their direct running in combination with sheer pace and physicality. They are also much more capable of stretching your defense (particularly the area between the flanks and the channels which is always a weakness in most 3 at the back set ups), and together with Demyanenko on the right, providing much more width and pace than your set-up does. I'd bank Sindelar, Elkenigge and Demyanenko to breach your defense as opposed to a centrally oriented attack with only Nedved (who is predominantly playing a central role here with Desailly on his tails) capable of genuinely stretching my defense.
Went for Joga since this should be a draw.
Here's a compilation of gifs from Demyanenko's performances in the Euro 1988. Yet another pacy and direct player in the team in addition to Elkenigge which is great to have on the quick transition/counter. Another key aspect to note would be Demyanenko's delivery from out wide to the marauding Elkjaer cutting in and Elkjaer's aerially superiority over Aldo's CBs could prove to be a problem for his defense.
Compilation of Maldini's gifs against Germany for those interested.
Compilation of Maldini's gifs against Germany for those interested.
you have my vote @Joga Bonito , fantastic work to introduce Demyanenko to us who didnt know much about him. His offensive contribution could be key in this game.
Cheers.
I actually do have that option though. Desailly played as a DM in the semis of the Euro. Also after re-watching almost the entire Italian campaign in Euro 1988 (mainly to find out how Maldini-Bergomi functioned as a FB pairing) I came to notice that Bergomi functioned as a CB and not just as a RCB with Ferri reprising the Gentile role of sorts - frequently roaming around the defensive backline and appearing out wide to gang up on attackers or plugging in gaps etc, so Bergomi could be used in defensive duo alongside Moore. Seriously considering it and will give it some thought before implementing changes. If I do so, cue Aldo to say how it all was all part of his masterplan
.Didn't remember that. No brainer to put Desailly there, no longer on a man-marking mission but being his usual awesome self alternating between Nedved and Iniesta to protect the defence.Cheers.
I actually do have that option though. Desailly played as a DM in the semis of the Euro. Also after re-watching almost the entire Italian campaign in Euro 1988 (mainly to find out how Maldini-Bergomi functioned as a FB pairing) I came to notice that Bergomi functioned as a CB and not just as a RCB with Ferri reprising the Gentile role of sorts - frequently roaming around the defensive backline and appearing out wide to gang up on attackers or plugging in gaps etc, so Bergomi could be used in defensive duo alongside Moore. Seriously considering it and will give it some thought before implementing changes. If I do so, cue Aldo to say how it all was all part of his masterplan
I'm not really sure what you want me do? Should I edit something in the op, if so, what and where?
Well naturally, with you being a huge fan of that French side
.http://www.rsssf.com/tables/96e-f.html (The semis)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1996_knockout_stage#France_vs_Czech_Republic
Tactical change which severely limits his midfield strength with a core of Desailly-Pluskal-Effenberg being as solid as it comes. No more of the 1 striker vs 3 defenders criticism as well
@Balu
Leave that, we have a new tactical change here
The 2nd is done, the one with Desailly in midfield. Check the op, if it's correct that way.Leave that, we have a new tactical change here
Yup, correct. Thank you.
Two teams who started with overly defensive formations and a draw was inevitable. Monti started of with a man marking job on Sindelar(centre forward who likes to drop deep but still) - making Aldo's defensive formation a 6-1-2-1 when Sindelar/Monti was in the box. Even the new instructions I find very arguable, Monti will close down Sindelar as soon as he drops down - and then Nesta picks him up as soon as he enters the box.
That means if Sindelar drops down - then Monti will take that role which means Joga Bonito's central midfielders will be able to push forward there completely unmarked as Monti is keeping track on Sindelar. With Sindelar out of the box - suddenly Aldo has three centre backs up against not a single player if Joga plays it out wide or in the midfield.
Didn't particularly love team Joga Bonito either until he changed to a four man defense, it looks a lot less overkill now and wherever Nedved/Iniesta tries to break through it is well covered.
Not enough has been said about Elkjaer/Rummenigge though - that is the perfect partnership more or less. The Danish Dynamites where Young Laudrup has been upgraded with one of the most iconic Euro performer ever in Rummenigge. Not sure if upgrading Elkjaer is possible at this stage for Joga unless he then also changes system slightly.
That means if Sindelar drops down - then Monti will take that role which means Joga Bonito's central midfielders will be able to push forward there completely unmarked as Monti is keeping track on Sindelar. With Sindelar out of the box - suddenly Aldo has three centre backs up against not a single player if Joga plays it out wide or in the midfield.
Didn't particularly love team Joga Bonito either until he changed to a four man defense, it looks a lot less overkill now and wherever Nedved/Iniesta tries to break through it is well covered.
Not enough has been said about Elkjaer/Rummenigge though - that is the perfect partnership more or less. The Danish Dynamites where Young Laudrup has been upgraded with one of the most iconic Euro performer ever in Rummenigge. Not sure if upgrading Elkjaer is possible at this stage for Joga unless he then also changes system slightly.
Oh, you meant 1996, I was thinking Desailly 2000, which looked odd as he probably didn't have the legs for it. Yeah, that would be prime Desailly at DM. feck me, why didn't you start that way with Albert in the frame anyway?Well naturally, with you being a huge fan of that French side
http://www.rsssf.com/tables/96e-f.html (The semis)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_1996_knockout_stage#France_vs_Czech_Republic
Tactical change which severely limits his midfield strength with a core of Desailly-Pluskal-Effenberg being as solid as it comes. No more of the 1 striker vs 3 defenders criticism as well
@Balu
I couldn't care less what Sindelar is up to. Joga's mean defensive setup will concede one at most and I trust Elkenigge to be a massive headache.
The possession game played by Aldo either has a high defensive line or oceans of space and pockets for Elkenigge to receive and torment that defence on the break.
2-1
MotM: Preben Elkjaer-Larsen
Goals: Rummenigge x2, Nedved x1
Spot on about the Elkenigge going under the spotlight though, should be drumming them up more. Elkjaer perhaps in isolation might have been one who could have been upgraded with a more 'flashy' name, say MVB, but that combo of Elkjaer-Rummenigge is just
and perfect in so many ways. Simply put, I can't find a better alternative to supplant either of Elkenigge from that partnership in this draft.You could replace Elkjaer with MvB here and it still wouldn't look that impressive a partnership. Elkjaer is unique in this aspect, be it tormenting defenders out wide with genuine trickery and pace or cutting in to be a legitimate goal threat or doing some of the more traditional centre forward work by being a focal point up top. There is someone similar in this regard who also happens to be on my team
; Rummenigge was the more electric one, with more threat down the flanks/channels but was less versed in the art of centre forward play than Elkjaer. They just complement themselves so brilliantly and I also won't be able to use the term Elkenigge anymore if I replace one of them .Yes I did and I myself said I only would be using him as a RCB, but that's before I actually downloaded just about every Italian match from the 1988 Euro tournament, and watched the defense in detail to find out how the Maldini-Ferri-Baresi-Bergomi backline functioned. The fantastic defense (and the fact that I had Maldini and Bergomi in my team, making gifs of Maldini/Demyanenko) was the only reason I continued watching that awfully boring Italian team.
Bergomi played both the CB and RCB roles with Ferri functioning as a roaming CB (Gentile/Picchi) of sorts, plugging in gaps and doubling up on players out wide etc. Throughout the match you'd find Bergomi-Baresi being the central pair with Ferri roaming and Maldini as the LB. Or a settled back 4 of Maldini-Baresi-Ferri-Bergomi with Bergomi as the RCB. So there is no reason to not use him as a CB here as he did, more often than not, function as one for Italy in Euro 1988 although in a typically convoluted style that the damn Italian defenses seem to employ.
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hats off to you, mate! Brilliant.Can't really argue against that.
I have to go now and there is a good chance I won't be back before it's over, so yeah, great game Aldo regardless of how it pans out.
No way, as DraftMaster it is your duty to also download every game and bore your tits off checking that up.
Went with joga here. Aldo would have plenty of the ball, but still don't see much of a goal threat to his side. Joga is solid at the back, and think he has more than enough going forward to squeak enough goals to win a close game.
I think Elkjaer has won it for Jogo here.Aldo will see more balls in the MF,but counter attack from Jogo doing the trick.
Too late to change anything I guess but Albert comes on to score an equalizer. Iniesta and Nedved move wider and get more space to operate. This is basically the change I had planned to make at half time.
@Balu please make the change.
@Balu please make the change.
Yea, good game buddy. Good luck going forward!
I don't why haven't you started with this formation to be fair
I knew he'd be expecting this and I had to start the game with a tactic that wouldn't let him much control of the game, and with the midfield that he had I saw a weakness and threw a team out that would capitalize on it.
Anyway it's a moot point now. Joga has a great team, no shame in losing to that.
Anyway it's a moot point now. Joga has a great team, no shame in losing to that.
Any Barca fans online?
And thanks for hosting the draft @Balu it has been really fun.
Thanks for playing, it was great to have you back.
Just came online, I changed your formation now. Maybe we'll see another miraculous come-back in the next 30 minutes
The scoreline is way too harsh, should have been much closer imo.
Yeah, it was a good tactical move which took me and my team by surprise although tbf, I don't think anyone could have possibly predicted you dropping Albert. It was a gutsy move which could have possibly paid off if you only had a fair bit more goal threat in midfield, I think. Anyway, it was a great game with some cracking discussions which I personally enjoyed. Thanks for the engaging game and it's good to have you back.
Seconded.
If you didn't switch Desailly and shift Bergomi to CB I would have voted @Aldo.
That's how tight it was and I wasn't even aware you could do either in this context! So yeah, ballsy move that could have been the match-winner had you not researched your team extensively.
Yeah I knew you were just about to vote for Aldo by the look of your posts but you just can't bring yourself to vote against Elkenigge can you
EDIT: Just saw the white text