The Euro Draft - QF - harms vs crappy

[Balu]

All players shall be judged only on their performances at the tournaments (From 1927 to 1960 the CEICs, from 1960 to 2012 the Euros). Please take this into account before voting. You can read up on the theme by clicking here.
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Team harms

A few words about my team:

It's a variation of 4-3-3. A lot like what LVG tries to do with us, but with much better individuals everywhere. Defensively it's all about closing space - you can't sit back against Platini, sadly, and there is no way of completely negating him, but it's the best way to counter him. My team is very energetic and compact, and all my midfielders possess brilliant off-the-ball movement. But my main defence is, obviously, offence - and I have all the right players to prevail here. I have a fantastic synergy is my attacking unit - I can see Dzajic, Sarosi and Meazza, with an addition of Brehme and Schuster working perfectly. There are no greedy individuals in my team, all my players, despite being able to provide a world-class individual performance, were renown as a team players. Dzajic was often compared to his contemporary Best and some defenders said that it were more difficult to defend against Dzajic because he was always looking to pick a pass - like Gentile struggled more against Zico than against Maradona despite the latter being marginally better player. Meazza spent the best years of his career orchestrating Italy's game from the inside-right position - and even with his famous solo dribbling goals, you will struggle to find a less egoistic player. Schuster, the brightest spark of 1980 Euro's, wasn't too self-centered at the time, ask Allofs and Hrubesch. You get the point. Plus, all three of my front players provide something different, apart from the obvious goalscoring - pace, directness, crossing ability and dribbling of Dzajic, dominating physical presence and versatility of Sarosi, dribbling and vision of Meazza... Mouthwatering.

A few points on the game:

• It will most certainly will be a highly entertaining game. Both me and crappy have quite an attacking teams and the main point of discussion will be who will score more
• It's a little unfair to crappy, but let's start with my usual nitpicking. My best players in Dzajic and Sarosi faced crappy's in European tournament (Meazza faced Planicka in World Cup but it doesn't matter here) and they will remember those days with a smile on their face.
• "Dragan Džajić and the speedy Slaviša Žungul on the right especially were ripping holes into Germany’s defense, playing the type of football most would expect from Germany. Germany’s right back, Berti Vogts, who had single handedly kept the great Johan Cruyff out of the match two years earlier in the World Cup final was being torn to shreds by Džajić in the first half". In that game in 1976 Dzajic was nothing short of genius - he already lost some of his pace and acceleration to this point, but he still managed to dominate that game and to score what should've been a winning goal. Imagine now, a prime Dzajic from 1968 with overlapping Brehme and Schuster being near him - this is where the match will be decided.

Spoiler: Dragan Džajić vs West Germany in 1976 (there is no preview, but it should work, tell me if it isn't)

• Plánička is a fantastic goalkeeper, no two ways about that, but he will be forced to relive the worst day of his professional career here. He is facing Gyorgy Sarosi - a man, who scored 7 goals past him in 1937's encounter between Hungary and Czechoslovakia, which ended 8:2.
• On the other end of the pitch Platini & co will face the best goalkeeper ever in Yashin - we all talk about how little goalkeepers are worth in this draft and this game is the perfect one to reconsider their value
• I already tried to explain how my attacking unit is perfect together - and I genuinely believe that it will work like I said it would, but I welcome the critique. On the other hand, the conundrum of Platini/Figo was already addressed to in crappy's last game. It he will drop Figo and play with Puc and Kocsis ahead of Platini, than kudos to him, they are a great fit tactically - but then, I would argue that my trio have more quality between them (not going to argue that Platini is the best player on the pitch, of course).
• Dellas can be compared to Ondrus in a way - a player with almost non-existent club career who shone at Euro's (even if Ondrus had 2 successful tournaments), but Ondrus shone despite of the system and Dellas shone because of it - his main role was as a belfry in the most defensive team in the history of the tournament. He will be very uncomfortable with a little Meazza, one of the most devastating dribblers ever, running into his zone.

PLAYER PROFILES

vs

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[Balu]

Team Crappy ​

Team tactics

• A fluid and flexible formation with Platini in a free role. He will have the freedom of middle of the park to attack the box, playing as a playmaker behind the striker or drop deep to control the play.
• Defensive Phase -
  Spoiler

  
• Rosetta stays out wide for Dzajic, Scirea provides cover for both Dellas or Rosetta. Senna occupies the space in the inner left channel to close the space for Meazza.
• The forward arrows on Figo, Platini and Ceulemans indicate that they will be the ones to counter and run with the ball forward.
• Attacking phases -
• Spoiler

  
• Figo and Krol provide outlets on the wing to attack and create chances. More over they force the opposition defense to stretch out wide and create spaces for Ceulemans, Platini and Tigana to attack and create through the middle
• Kocsis provides a disruptive presence in the box and being part of the Hungarian Golden team, is capable of adjusting his position for charging Platini and Ceulemans.
• If the opposing CM duo occupy the central space to counter Platini, he can drop deep to link up with Tigana while Cuelemans occupies the required presence either in the hole or upfront.
  
• The 3 defenders form a back 3 with Rosetta capable of moving out wide if needed for a counter and Senna covering for Krol on the left if needed.

Why I would win

• Edge in the midfield battle with Ceulemans, Senna and Tigana supporting Platini. The duo of Voronin and Van Moer have an especially hard task of keeping up against Ceulemans and Platini. I don't believe this is peak Voronin in any case (did not make the team of the tournament in 64). Impossible to shut out Platini since he will drop deep plenty of times and Ceulamans will also have the freedom to attack the box or drop back if needed. Add any runs by Tigana on top of this and there is no way opposition trio can cope without help from either winger/forwards.
• Brehme has Figo to think about if he intends to join Dzajic. Leaving the Portuguese to have a free run on counter is a clear route to goal for my team.
• Scirea's presence at the back is critical against the tracking trio. He is intelligent enough to know when he is need to cover for either of the 3 attacking threat.
• Ultimately I feel both teams will score here but I will more of the control of the game via my midfield and more routes to goal via the wings or through the middle.

Euro Form Guide (Every Single post 1966 player part of team of the tournament)

Planicka - Part of Czech team that finished joint second in inaugural CEIC. Generally regarded as the best keeper about in 1930s.

Scirea - Team of the tournament 80

Dellas - Euro 2004 winner and team of the tournament 2004.

Rosetta - Part of Italian team that won the inaugural CEIC

Krol - Team of the tournament 76

Tigana - Team of the tournament 84, second in Ballon'dor 84

Senna- Team of the tournament 2008, critical player in Spanish set up

Figo - Team of the tournament 2000,2004

Ceulemans - Team of the tournament 1980

Kocsis- 4 goals for Hungary in CEIC 1956-56

Platini - Best ever Euro performance in 1984 with 9 goals in 5 matches

Subs - Tardelli, Antonin Puc, Vogts

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Good luck @harms @crappycraperson

 

[Balu]

@Rado_N @Damien , could one of you please add the poll to the thread? Thanks a lot.

Question:
Judged on the Euro performances, who will win the match?

- Team harms
- Team crappy

Poll for 24hrs. Public Poll. View results without voting. Can change votes.

 

[Rado_N]

Done.

 

[Raees]

Role of Cuelemans and Meazza is very interesting. Looking forward to the debate on these two.

 

[harms]

Good luck @crappycraperson! Interesting choice with fielding Rossetta and benching Puc, Tardelli and Vogts.

I know that it isn't a cheap dig, but a simple misunderstanding, but to say that Voronin wasn't at his best at 1964 is just laughable. He won Soviet footballer of the year (against the likes of Yashin, Streltsov, Ivanov and Metreveli) in both 1964 and 1965 and was voted 11 and 10 in European footballer of the year vote.

You are wrong to exclude Schuster from midfield battle - he was very much a central midfielder in 1980, not your typical №10, he dominated the games by his presence and energy, that's why I picked him.

I'm not sure about Rossetta - did he play on the right? I was sure that he played on the left, but it was because Rava succeeded him in Italy and Juventus and he played there. I'll look into it.

 

[crappycraperson]

Good write up harms.
- no vogts to target. Rosetta pretty much plays the defensive right back role here.

- I seriously Don think sarosi scoring those goals has any significance on this match up.

- Figos role is important in my team to pin down brehme and reduce that threat from left.

- I have senna operating in same area as meazza .

 

[crappycraperson]

Good luck @crappycraperson! Interesting choice with fielding Rossetta and benching Puc, Tardelli and Vogts.

I know that it isn't a cheap dig, but a simple misunderstanding, but to say that Voronin wasn't at his best at 1964 is just laughable. He won Soviet footballer of the year (against the likes of Yashin, Streltsov, Ivanov and Metreveli) in both 1964 and 1965 and was voted 11 and 10 in European footballer of the year vote.

You are wrong to exclude Schuster from midfield battle - he was very much a central midfielder in 1980, not your typical №10, he dominated the games by his presence and energy, that's why I picked him.

I'm not sure about Rossetta - did he play on the right? I was sure that he played on the left, but it was because Rava succeeded him in Italy and Juventus and he played there. I'll look into it.

But you are wrong about him making the team of tournament in 1964. I know it was done retrospectively but it is worth pointing out that he did not make it. So IMO that puts the burden of proof on you to convince others that this is peak Voronin.

Edit: I also think this is the reason why voronin was picked so late. If it was without question that he was at his best in euros he would have been easily a round 2 pick.

And those are the margins worth talking about. This is peak platini, you will need an all time DM in peak of their powers to counter him in any way. Any level below that and it is undeniable that platini will run the game

 

[harms]

Meazza is playing in his best role here. He started his career as a centre-forward, and started it brilliantly - and in the only game that he played there in CEIC he scored a hat-trick against Hungary in, essentially, a final. But he isn't known for his 19-years old centre-forward achievements - he is knows as the player that lead Italy to their unmatched international success in the 30's - with him as an inside-right they won 2 World Cups, 33/35 International Cup, finished runner-up in 31/32 and were leading on the lost points in 36/38, which was unfinished due to Anschluss. I don't think that anyone here will argue that he was the best and the most important player for that Italian team?

 

[crappycraperson]

Have voted for myself @harms

 

[Raees]

Meazza is playing in his best role here. He started his career as a centre-forward, and started it brilliantly - and in the only game that he played there in CEIC he scored a hat-trick against Hungary in, essentially, a final. But he isn't known for his 19-years old centre-forward achievements - he is knows as the player that lead Italy to their unmatched international success in the 30's - with him as an inside-right they won 2 World Cups, 33/35 International Cup, finished runner-up in 31/32 and were leading on the lost points in 36/38, which was unfinished due to Anschluss. I don't think that anyone here will argue that he was the best and the most important player for that Italian team?

Don't know if you have read Calcio .. book on Italian football but whilst it talks of Piola as a serious rival, there is no doubt Meazza was the star attraction in every sense, on and off the pitch.

 

[harms]

But you are wrong about him making the team of tournament in 1964. I know it was done retrospectively but it is worth pointing out that he did not make it. So IMO that puts the burden of proof on you to convince others that this is peak Voronin.

Yeah, sorry man, an honest mistake - it was so obvious for me that he should've been that I didn't double-check Deleted that line from the profiles.

He was the main man in that Soviet team - they had a spine in Yashin - Voronin - Ivanov that made them tick. In team of the tournament there are only three midfield places and only one for a central midfielder (the other ones were outside right Amancio and inside right Ivanov). Suarez occupied it - and deservedly so, as he won the tournament in the end.

Voronin scored a winner in the semi-s and his final performance was praised by Jean-Philippe Réthacker from France Football (this is a broken phone as I'm translating a russian translation to english now, sorry, I'm editing google-translate here, so read between the lines):
"When the Spaniards will finally digest their victory in the European Cup final and stop to savor it in their memory for a long time to keep memories not only about Yashin (who was not too busy), but especially about Voronin. Tall (1,74) and handsome, athletically tough but Voronin playing style reminiscent of South American footballer. He played with ease, despite the fact that the ball because of the rain became slippery and heavy. He managed the produce some amazing dribbles, and most accurate passes. Within one hour Voronin was certainly a bright figure in the Soviet national team. The role that was designed, almost coincided with the role of Suarez in the Spanish team. Several times their paths crossed. They dribbled past each other, engaged in combat, and sometimes clashed, and quite sharply".

I'm sorry, I wanted to made a youtube video of him too, but I was too busy

 

[harms]

I get why crappy benched Berti Vogts and put Rossetta - he knew that I would use that 1976 performance to prove that this battle will go my way, which I did, quite predictably. But putting a relatively unknown (other than he was one of the best defenders in 20/30's we can't say much about him) defender (let's not pretend that crappy didn't ask me what I did know about him when he picked him in the last round ) on Dzajic is not an answer.

Let's take a look at Dzajic's credentials:
1968, semi-final. He plays for an average Yugoslavian team (no-one was picked for this draft except for him) against the current World Champions, England. It was one of the worst games ever, he was kicked by Englishmen all game and not that Yugoslavians themselves held back - Charlton still remembers that game as the ugliest game that he ever played in. At 87 minute he pops up in front of the great Bobby Moore and lobs equally great Banks. 1:0, Yugoslavia is going through.

1968, final. He plays for the same shit team against Italy. He fools one of the best defensive man-markers ever Burgnich and scores against Dino Zoff, the only goal that Italy will concede in this tournament. That shit Yugoslavia failed to defend their lead and the game ended 1:1 after the overtime.

1976, semi-final. 30-years old Dzajic, playing for a slightly better Yugoslavian team tears apart one of the best man-markers ever in Vogts, who just 2 years prior kept Cruyff in his pocket and scores a goal agains Meier - one of the best keepers of 70's (obligatory video in OP). He also provides some delightful crosses from which Yugoslavian forwards failed to score.

1976, third-place He scores against Suurbier and Schrijvers - nothing much, considering his opponents in prior games.

And all that he did playing for a sub-par teams, really. 1976 was okay, but nothing out of the ordinary. And here he has the imperious Sarosi to score from his crosses (which is his main speciality, actually, despite his insane goalscoring record), and Brehme's, Schuster's and Meazza's support.

 

[Moby]

Am I the only one who cannot view harms formation image?

 

[Balu]

Am I the only one who cannot view harms formation image?

It's working fine for me. Here's the link, in case that helps:
http://sharemytactics.com/42314

 

[harms]

Not to start another Zebec discussion, but I want to hear more about Rossetta. His team conceded 10 goals in 5 games in the first IC, which they still won (looks just like Sarosi's goalscoring record from 36/38 by the way), 5 in 4 in IC2 and 6 in 6 in IC3. He was a great pick for the last round, considering his versatility and that he was pre-66, but nothing more - certainly not a match for the best winger in the draft. I would argue that Vogts would've been a better pick, even with his infamous performance.

 

[berbasloth4]

to be honest @harms I knew quite little about your side bar a few players I am reading up on them watching videos... It seems to look like a very good side.. I am going to take time late when I am out of work to study a bit more before I even talk

 

[crappycraperson]

I get why crappy benched Berti Vogts and put Rossetta - he knew that I would use that 1976 performance to prove that this battle will go my way, which I did, quite predictably. But putting a relatively unknown (other than he was one of the best defenders in 20/30's we can't say much about him) defender (let's not pretend that crappy didn't ask me what I did know about him when he picked him in the last round ) on Dzajic is not an answer.

Let's take a look at Dzajic's credentials:
1968, semi-final. He plays for an average Yugoslavian team (no-one was picked for this draft except for him) against the current World Champions, England. It was one of the worst games ever, he was kicked by Englishmen all game and not that Yugoslavians themselves held back - Charlton still remembers that game as the ugliest game that he ever played in. At 87 minute he pops up in front of the great Bobby Moore and lobs equally great Banks. 1:0, Yugoslavia is going through.

1968, final. He plays for the same shit team against Italy. He fools one of the best defensive man-markers ever Burgnich and scores against Dino Zoff, the only goal that Italy will concede in this tournament. That shit Yugoslavia failed to defend their lead and the game ended 1:1 after the overtime.

1976, semi-final. 30-years old Dzajic, playing for a slightly better Yugoslavian team tears apart one of the best man-markers ever in Vogts, who just 2 years prior kept Cruyff in his pocket and scores a goal agains Meier - one of the best keepers of 70's (obligatory video in OP). He also provides some delightful crosses from which Yugoslavian forwards failed to score.

1976, third-place He scores against Suurbier and Schrijvers - nothing much, considering his opponents in prior games.

And all that he did playing for a sub-par teams, really. 1976 was okay, but nothing out of the ordinary. And here he has the imperious Sarosi to score from his crosses (which is his main speciality, actually, despite his insane goalscoring record), and Brehme's, Schuster's and Meazza's support.

He is one of the top wingers ever of course but I don't agree that he is in someone like best's league. If someone was to make a list of all time best wingers. Dargan would be at best couple of places ahead of figo.

As far as the question of Rosetta goes. It is part of draft mechanics. He was not only part of a very successful Italian side but also part of a juve team that won 5 league titled in a row. Playing as a full back then required a lot of skill anyway so I don't think there is any question about him playing this defensive role out wide.

I think you are desperate to have vogts out wide just so you can say it is for sure that dargan will beat him.

 

[antohan]

Will revisit later. Have no idea what you've done there @crappycraperson, nothing like what I expected.

@harms, only just realised how much you have exploited the defunct nations rule I made for the all-time draft. THAT is exactly what it was designed for.

 

[harms]

Already one vote behind

My front three is all final worthy. Dzajic is fantastic, hands down best left-wing option in the draft with his almost 1 in 1 goalscoring record in two non-consecutive Euro's. Sarosi is the most (statistically) ruthless goalscorer in the draft, even ahead of Platini, for example. What certainly helps here is that he is facing Planicka - the keeper that conceded 7 goals from him in just one game! Meazza is arguably the best forward in this draft, and his credentials are simply unique. All are playing in their best positions and are providing different threats.

He has Kocsis (said enough about him in the last game, he is a great tactical fit, but his Euro form is questionable, his usual >1 goal per game record drops to 0,5, when he is playing in the most dominant team in tournament's history) and Ceulemans, who had an outstanding Euro to be fair, but he still isn't in the category of my front three. Then, again, we have Platini - Figo conundrum, it's not coincidence that Causio, who was very similar to Figo stylistically, was let go by Juventus when they decided to buy Platini - and he thrived with Boniek, a selfless runner - and that France was full of them too. Platini, is the system is right, is the best player on the pitch, but he will either not be at his very best with Figo, imo, either Figo will have to settle for a support role. I have a very strict view on Platini's best position and it may cloud my judgement.

 

[crappycraperson]

Not to start another Zebec discussion, but I want to hear more about Rossetta. His team conceded 10 goals in 5 games in the first IC, which they still won (looks just like Sarosi's goalscoring record from 36/38 by the way), 5 in 4 in IC2 and 6 in 6 in IC3. He was a great pick for the last round, considering his versatility and that he was pre-66, but nothing more - certainly not a match for the best winger in the draft. I would argue that Vogts would've been a better pick, even with his infamous performance.

This is true for all defenders from that era. If we are going to indulge such stats for measure of quality then no defenders or keepers from that era will be rated.

 

[crappycraperson]

@harms you need to calm down. Match has just started and you are already complaining about some one else voting against your team .

Thus assertion that platini can not function with a traditional winger in the team is absurd to say the least.

 

[harms]

He is one of the top wingers ever of course but I don't agree that he is in someone like best's league. If someone was to make a list of all time best wingers. Dargan would be at best couple of places ahead of figo.

As far as the question of Rosetta goes. It is part of draft mechanics. He was not only part of a very successful Italian side but also part of a juve team that won 5 league titled in a row. Playing as a full back then required a lot of skill anyway so I don't think there is any question about him playing this defensive role out wide.

I think you are desperate to have vogts out wide just so you can say it is for sure that dargan will beat him.

And after he finished his career they went on and win 2 world cups in a row...

I'm not desperate for Vogts, really, I rate him and I like him, even if he is a very good fit for Dzajic. I think that Dzajic proved that he can do it against anyone, literally, Moore, Burgnich, Vogts - all at their peak, and an unfamiliar (and, sorry, inferior) player won't help you here, especially at Euro's. Figo will not be that far behind him in all-time wingers list, that is true, but in terms of Euro performances I don't think that any winger, right or left, stands next to Dragan.

On Best point - I like Best better myself. I enjoy looking at his international performances, even when he don't play with the likes of Charlton and Law. But they were ridiculously close in 1968, when Dzajic played with some awful players and Best shone against Benfica as a part of the holy trinity. Beckenbauer said that Dzajic should've got Ballon D'Or that year, not Best - I can't agree with that because I'm biased toward George, but it's certainly a marker of Dzajic's level.

 

[harms]

@harms you need to calm down. Match has just started and you are already complaining about some one else voting against your team .

Thus assertion that platini can not function with a traditional winger in the team is absurd to say the least.

Complaining? It was a sad smile

 

[Gio]

This is true for all defenders from that era. If we are going to indulge such stats for measure of quality then no defenders or keepers from that era will be rated.

That's the whole problem with anyone pre-1960. Every draft with pre-1960 players descends into the same farce where these players are unable to be defended because there's no real footage available. I think we have to agree to give the benefit of the doubt more often otherwise there's no point in including the stars from that era.

 

[Raees]

That's the whole problem with anyone pre-1960. Every draft with pre-1960 players descends into the same farce where these players are unable to be defended because there's no real footage available. I think we have to agree to give the benefit of the doubt more often otherwise there's no point in including the stars from that era.

Pre 1960 is difficult enough but with the CEIC cup, it is even more difficult especially with rating defenders.

 

[harms]

This is true for all defenders from that era. If we are going to indulge such stats for measure of quality then no defenders or keepers from that era will be rated.

It is - but if the best defenders of all-time (Moore, Vogts and Burgnich certainly fit the bill, at least in their national XI) couldn't have handled Dzajic, why Rossetta will? I think it's fair to assume that he was good for his time, when there were more goals conceded per game, but not at the level of Moore/Burgnich/Vogts, for example, am I wrong?

 

[harms]

Thus assertion that platini can not function with a traditional winger in the team is absurd to say the least.

Can not function and "not be at his very best" are very different things, aren't they? Not at his very best he still is arguably the most threatening player on the pitch.

 

[harms]

to be honest @harms I knew quite little about your side bar a few players I am reading up on them watching videos... It seems to look like a very good side.. I am going to take time late when I am out of work to study a bit more before I even talk

That was the point - to go for a players that were not rated as highly outside this theme and to talk about their outstanding performances. I fit in a few superstars like Meazza and Yashin on the way though Either way, I hope that you will enjoy some of my stories.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Tbh, I don't get crappy's tactics at all.

- All he needed was to get a left winger in reinforcements and play Ceulemans as a forward...same role he played in 1980 finals. I don't think current role gets the best out of him.
- Koscis would have been perfect with Platini in the false 9 role...same role he played for the Magyars. Koscis would still do the job, but it definitely could have been better.

For harms, Dzajic / Sarosi is just I simply don't know much about Voronin and van Moer and will read more about them before voting.

 

[harms]

@Edgar Allan Pillow

Article on Voronin
Another article on Voronin

 

[berbasloth4]

That was the point - to go for a players that were not rated as highly outside this theme and to talk about their outstanding performances. I fit in a few superstars like Meazza and Yashin on the way though Either way, I hope that you will enjoy some of my stories.

i know the majority if i am to be honest just don't really know 3 of your back line - I know brehme obviously. lack knowledge on voronin so hopefully i can find a bit more footage and quotes etc..

 

[crappycraperson]

It is - but if the best defenders of all-time (Moore, Vogts and Burgnich certainly fit the bill, at least in their national XI) couldn't have handled Dzajic, why Rossetta will? I think it's fair to assume that he was good for his time, when there were more goals conceded per game, but not at the level of Moore/Burgnich/Vogts, for example, am I wrong?

Have I said Rosetta will shut out Dargan? I am not sure what is the issue here?

 

[harms]

i know the majority if i am to be honest just don't really know 3 of your back line - I know brehme obviously. lack knowledge on voronin so hopefully i can find a bit more footage and quotes etc..

I didn't make any video's of Voronin performances, it is very time-consuming and I decided to go for a Dzajic this time. Khurtsilava and Bezsonov are the best defenders in their retrospective position in USSR history, it's usually Demyanenko - Shesternyov - Khurtsilava - Bezsonov, and Soviet team were actually a threat in Europe in 60's/early 70's and under Lobanovsky.

Ondrus is a guy with only 2 highlights in his career - 1976 Euro, where he and Ivo Viktor led Czechoslovakia to an eventual win, beating Cruyff's Netherlands and Beckenbauer's Germany and 1980 Euro, where he was very good and they finished 3rd. On the club level his career was nothing out of the ordinary, but in terms of this draft he is fantastic.

 

[harms]

Have I said Rosetta will shut out Dargan? I am not sure what is the issue here?

Okay, I'm just stating the obvious that he is the weakest link here.

 

[crappycraperson]

Tbh, I don't get crappy's tactics at all.

- All he needed was to get a left winger in reinforcements and play Ceulemans as a forward...same role he played in 1980 finals. I don't think current role gets the best out of him.
- Koscis would have been perfect with Platini in the false 9 role...same role he played for the Magyars. Koscis would still do the job, but it definitely could have been better.

For harms, Dzajic / Sarosi is just I simply don't know much about Voronin and van Moer and will read more about them before voting.

With Krol in there, there is absolutely no need for a left winger.

Platini is still play the free role, it is clear from my write up that Ceulemans will adjust his position in relation to Platini. The Belgian can be another presence in the box for Platini to target or he can link up with Platini in the hole or if Platini makes those runs into the box, he drops off or pulls of wide to create space.

 

[crappycraperson]

Okay, I'm just stating the obvious that he is the weakest link here.

Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. I guess that's how people's mind works in these drafts, it is completely black or white. Either some defender shuts down an attacker or he gets completely rail-roaded. Rosetta is good enough for his battle against Dargan. His influence will already be limited with Brehme forced to think about Figo if he goes forward. If and when Dargan gets better off the right back, I have a GOAT in Scirea to cover in any case.

As I said, in my write up. His presence in the defensive line is crucial. He is exactly the type of defender who will will know when he needs to move in to negate Dargan or stay on Sarosi.

 

[harms]

Not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. I guess that's how people's mind works in these drafts, it is completely black or white. Either some defender shuts down an attacker or he gets completely rail-roaded. Rosetta is good enough for his battle against Dargan. His influence will already be limited with Brehme forced to think about Figo if he goes forward. If and when Dargan gets better off the right back, I have a GOAT in Scirea to cover in any case.

As I said, in my write up. His presence in the defensive line is crucial. He is exactly the type of defender who will will know when he needs to move in to negate Dargan or stay on Sarosi.

Dragan's influence is not limited by Brehme/Figo situation, he did what he did at those Euro's without any real help from his partners mostly. Brehme is just a fantastic addition to him, not a necessary part of his game, and I think that it's fair to say that he will beat Rosetta more often than not on his own - because he did it even with better defenders. Scirea will have to regularly cover for him, when centrally Dellas, with cover from your midfielders will be against Schuster, Sarosi and Meazza... Scirea is incredible and is a fantastic pick to lead your line, but even he isn't a superman.

I'm sorry if I will appear overzealous here, I probably am, from the teams that I've assembled so far this is probably my favorite one.

 

[crappycraperson]

Dragan's influence is not limited by Brehme/Figo situation, he did what he did at those Euro's without any real help from his partners mostly. Brehme is just a fantastic addition to him, not a necessary part of his game, and I think that it's fair to say that he will beat Rosetta more often than not on his own - because he did it even with better defenders. Scirea will have to regularly cover for him, when centrally Dellas, with cover from your midfielders will be against Schuster, Sarosi and Meazza... Scirea is incredible and is a fantastic pick to lead your line, but even he isn't a superman.

I'm sorry if I will appear overzealous here, I probably am, from the teams that I've assembled so far this is probably my favorite one.

To be honest all these stories about Dargan are a bit much. I mean you say how he tore apart Vogts, who kept Cryuff in his back pocket in WC. When you ask someone else, they will tell that's just a myth. Vogts did man mark him but the overall effect of the same is exaggerated due to the end result. Same is the case other way around, a winger always beat his man on some occasions in the match. Figo is as likely to beat Brehme as Dargan is to Rosetti IMO. Does not mean that both will definitely score or create a goal in every such occasion.

Sceria is not a superman.. I have not made him out to be one like you are doing with your left winger. I have clearly defined what his role in the back line will be. Senna's role against Meazza pretty much allows him to play the covering role for every attacking threat out there.

 

[harms]

Figo is as likely to beat Brehme as Dargan is to Rosetti IMO. Does not mean that both will definitely score or create a goal in every such occasion.

But Dragan scored in every game bar one in his European career, and we are judging him by it. And this game was a very special one, after he took a beating 90 minutes against England and 120 minutes against Italy in the first final he played yet another game and his teammates were tired and unmotivated, while Italians placed 5 fresh players and were playing in front of their fans. If you say that I overrate his performance against Vogts - take a look at the video in OP. He grabs a goal and could've had a couple assists. If you will say that it isn't that impressive after watching the video - well, it's fair enough.

I agree that overall better winger = non-existent fullback is a questionable concept, but we have a very special draft here, and in terms of this draft Dzajic is really a guarantee of success.