The foundations of great teams start with their attacks

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I don't buy that idea in the slightest. The notion that great teams are built from attack first is laughable. Especially when the two best teams in the league all became nigh unplayable ONLY after sorting out their defences.

Even the third best team in the league, is third because it defends better than those below it.


The REAL truth is great teams are built strictly upon great systems of play. Formulate a system, populate it with the right good players and you will be great. Ajax prove this time and time again. But no one else ever seems to learn

 

[Canagel]

I don't disagree.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

This!

Every coach from kids to youth to seniors knows that defence is the most important position on the pitch.

Teams have won titles with meagre goal hauls but mean defences

Rarely happens. And when it does happen it is usually remembered like Milan's 94 team.

 

[arthurka]

1. It was a short cup competition.
2. They were seriously lucky — they've did everything in their power, but without significant amount of luck they wouldn't have been nowhere near the win.

They were not a great team.

That was a a great team effort.
Luck had little to do with it.
Lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Withnail]

"Attacks win you games, defences win you titles", Sir Alex Ferguson...he knew a thing or two about making teams.

My thoughts exactly. Defence and DM are the most pressing priority.

No point having Messi if Young, Rojo, Jones and Valencia are behind him.

 

[fps]

Nope, the opposite.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

My thoughts exactly. Defence and DM are the most pressing priority.

No point having Messi if Young, Rojo, Jones and Valencia are behind him.

Messi won the treble with Mathieu in defense.

 

[Withnail]

Messi won the treble with Mathieu in defense.

Bit of a tenuous argument there chap.

Care to elaborate?

 

[Charles Miller]

You 100% need to start with a wc front three. Its the most important thing. Line up a striker able to score from half chances like Aguero, or wingers that can create a goal from nothing and everybody will look better. We can talk about tactics or phylosophy of teams like Barcelona, Real, etc, but reality is the main aspect of their game is that is really hard to mark so many wc attacking players.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Messi won the treble with Mathieu in defense.

He wasn't a starter though(he did score in their 2-1 win in the Clasico that sealed the league however).

Their starting XI that season was:

Neymar-Suarez-Messi
Iniesta-Busquets-Rakitic
Alba-Mascherano-Pique-Alves
Bravo(Ter Stegen played the cups).

 

[Bocca9978]

You build from the back, the rest follows.
It’s pointless attacking if you piss goals in at the other end.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Stick Liverpool and Klopp up your fecking arse!

 

[Ronaldo's ego]

I’d go the other way. Great teams start with a great defence

 

[tomaldinho1]

In any other year Liverpool would’ve pissed the title, in no small part to having a fantastic defence. The same attack got them nowhere near.

Exactly /thread

Liverpool last season, phenomenal attack and leaky defence.

This season, better defence and challenging for the title with same attack

 

[VeevaVee]

The foundations for quality football are built from the front in my opinion (good attacking football, making chances in the final third, making good use of those chances. Success is then built at the back (protecting leads, controlling games better, being good enough to win consistently enough for the league title). Front then back would see us better off right now. I know that because I see us getting in the final third and fecking up so many final balls, touches, finishes etc. that the like of Liverpool and City get right. Sort that out and we're on our way.

 

[VeevaVee]

In any other year Liverpool would’ve pissed the title, in no small part to having a fantastic defence. The same attack got them nowhere near.

They got a quality attack first though (as well as some highly enjoyable football for a Liverpool fan). Then solidified with the defence.

 

[mariachi-19]

Reason for this great teams are always looking to dominate the ball and win. To win you need to score goals, to dominate you need to force your opponent back and that can only be done with an attacking force worthy of fearing. A great attack over the course of a season will win you a lot more points than a great defence. A great defense is obsolete without attackers who can capitalise.

Liverpool and Klopp started with Firmino, Salah and Mane. Once Klopp knew he had an attack capable of winning him games he went and plugged the gap at the back with a great CB and GK.

Secondly the way you defend also starts with your attack in the current game. You can't be a great pressing team if your attackers aren't themselves great at pressing. Your pressing is useless if you don't have the right players to capitalise on recovering the ball high up the pitch.

--------Schmeichel---
Neville-Stam-Johnsen-Irwin

-------------VDS---------
Brown-Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra

Yep, its your attack that wins you the big gongs

 

[mariachi-19]

Pep builds his teams from midfield first. Where does he fit into this theory?

He's failed to win the CL since he doesn't have the best player in the world to make up for his defensive flaws?

 

[Halds]

--------Schmeichel---
Neville-Stam-Johnsen-Irwin

-------------VDS---------
Brown-Ferdinand-Vidic-Evra

Yep, its your attack that wins you the big gongs

You had some fantastic attacks aswell tbh

Yorke, Cole, Sheringham, Solskjaer.

Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney.

 

[mariachi-19]

You had some fantastic attacks aswell tbh

Yorke, Cole, Sheringham, Solskjaer.

Ronaldo, Tevez, Rooney.

The latter scored 1 goal combined in the final three games of the CL that season

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Attack and score -- win, 3 pts.
Defend and stood -- draw, 1 pts, end game penalties.

Crystal clear.

Realistically it can go either way.

• Attacks first, then defenses.
• Defenses first, then attacks.

I know I'll go with attacks first, then defenses.

1. Good attack have big impacts on helping the defense -- it'll push foe back and make them cautious and wary to put more men on attacks. So less threat for our defenders to handle.
2. Attacks also helps defense in another way -- pressing high up the pitch, to disrupt foe's deliveries and services to their attacks. Easier to defend when their service-support to their attack is messed up.
3. Good consistent attacks also have the team confidence boost factor, defense making mistake and concede, doesn't matter, we can still win this with our trusty good attacks. Goals have a huge impact on the team, big difference maker and morale booster.
4. Good consistent attacks is more important than great but inconsistent attack. Players being inconsistent are unreliable players, and this include attackers making mistakes in decision making and mistakes in finishing. Need more investment and works to make sure it stays consistently good.
5. No matter how good our defense is, it can and will concede goals. So focus more on improving attacks consistently.

Ideally improve both of course.

 

[manutddjw]

Not for me. We had Ruud banging in goals for us, but had Blanc, Silvestre and not the finished article in Rio, Brown and O’Shea and look where that got us.

 

[Skills]

Still maintain this. You can defend as well as you like, but it's ultimately worthless (well 1 point) if you can't put them away on the other end. It's why the likes of Salah and Mane were there at Liverpool before he went all out for Van Djik

 

[Velvet Revolver]

I don't buy that idea in the slightest. The notion that great teams are built from attack first is laughable. Especially when the two best teams in the league all became nigh unplayable ONLY after sorting out their defences.

Even the third best team in the league, is third because it defends better than those below it.


The REAL truth is great teams are built strictly upon great systems of play. Formulate a system, populate it with the right good players and you will be great. Ajax prove this time and time again. But no one else ever seems to learn

Agree. And therein lies our problems. SAF was expert at building team after team that competed at the highest level, he didn’t wait for defense to be sorted out for midfield and attackers to play their game! There was a system and players were assigned roles within that system. None of the managers after that have had anything close to that and that’s not just worrying to United but the way football is seen and perceived in general!

 

[Valuedrug]

I think it’s also more important from a psychological point of view.

A team who believes they can score three or more goals in any game will feel more confident throughout matches. A defence minded team plays a more risky game. Make one mistake at the back, and heads drop quickly, knowing it may be difficult to win the game now. This is even more relevant for top teams, who are expected to win a lot of games. For them draws almost count as loses.

It’s a simple point, but playing attacking football and scoring goals is also a lot more exciting for the players. Case in point, I’m watching Arsenal-Spurs right now. Arsenal’s defence is quite suspect, but they have a lot going forward now. They look confident and like they enjoy their football.

In the end, any great team will have both, and to win trophies over the long run, you won’t get anywhere with a leaky defence. But forced to choose, other things being equal, attack is more important in my opinion.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Agree. And therein lies our problems. SAF was expert at building team after team that competed at the highest level, he didn’t wait for defense to be sorted out for midfield and attackers to play their game! There was a system and players were assigned roles within that system. None of the managers after that have had anything close to that and that’s not just worrying to United but the way football is seen and perceived in general!

Bingo. Our biggest failure these last few years was not sticking to what LVG was trying to do. We should have brought a manager who had a style, who was just better at execution. Not change direction 360 again. Just like we have by changing JM for Ole