The foundations of great teams start with their attacks

[Skills]

Reason for this great teams are always looking to dominate the ball and win. To win you need to score goals, to dominate you need to force your opponent back and that can only be done with an attacking force worthy of fearing. A great attack over the course of a season will win you a lot more points than a great defence. A great defense is obsolete without attackers who can capitalise.

Liverpool and Klopp started with Firmino, Salah and Mane. Once Klopp knew he had an attack capable of winning him games he went and plugged the gap at the back with a great CB and GK.

Secondly the way you defend also starts with your attack in the current game. You can't be a great pressing team if your attackers aren't themselves great at pressing. Your pressing is useless if you don't have the right players to capitalise on recovering the ball high up the pitch.

 

[Raw]

I totally agree. Not to say we should neglect our defence, but our attack needs serious work. I feel like it's easier to fix a defence than it is to create a team that's excellent in attack, I wouldn't mind losing/drawing if we were scoring shit loads of goals anyway. Having a great attack is going to win points against the midtable/relegation teams because all they're going to do is sit back all game.

 

[Saffron]

The foundations of great teams start with their attacks.

The foundations of great teams start with their defense.

The foundations of great teams start with their midfield.

All of these are fairly interchangeable and pointless statements.

 

[captain666]

The foundations of great teams start with their attacks.

The foundations of great teams start with their defense.

The foundations of great teams start with their midfield.

All of these are fairly interchangeable and pointless statements.

And the foundations of great teams start with being able to play football!

 

[Ekeke]

Reason for this great teams are always looking to dominate the ball and win. To win you need to score goals, to dominate you need to force your opponent back and that can only be done with an attacking force worthy of fearing. A great attack over the course of a season will win you a lot more points than a great defence. A great defense is obsolete without attackers who can capitalise.

Liverpool and Klopp started with Firmino, Salah and Mane. Once Klopp knew he had an attack capable of winning him games he went and plugged the gap at the back with a great CB and GK.

Secondly the way you defend also starts with your attack in the current game. You can't be a great pressing team if your attackers aren't themselves great at pressing. Your pressing is useless if you don't have the right players to capitalise on recovering the ball high up the pitch.

I think theres a lot of merit in this. Defending is a team responsibility, so if you have your talented attacking players also putting in a decent shift in terms of pressing and closing down, the defending job at the back is easier

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

När, if you’ve no composure at the back and can’t even start passing the ball out, you’re fecked.

If Ole neglects his defence as LVG & Mourinho did, he’ll end up going the same way as them.

 

[red thru&thru]

"Attacks win you games, defences win you titles", Sir Alex Ferguson...he knew a thing or two about making teams.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

"Attacks win you games, defences win you titles", Sir Alex Ferguson...he knew a thing or two about making teams.

In any other year Liverpool would’ve pissed the title, in no small part to having a fantastic defence. The same attack got them nowhere near.

 

[arthurka]

And the foundations of great teams start with being able to play football!

Greece says hello..

That isn´t really the truth, of course it helps but a great team starts with a great defence.
If don´t concede you don´t loose and there starts the platform to build on. Good teams don´t have to play beautiful football.

If you have any doubts just look at both City and Liverpool. Liverpool just scraped CL qualifying last season but they signed a top defender and a great keeper.
City have spent something like 300m on keepers and defenders.
It also helps the attack to know that 1 goal could be enough so there is a huge pressure lifted and there will come freedom to score more as the defense is trusted to do it´s job.

Our foundation is broken, our defense is shit and there in lies most of our problem as our midfield is focused on helping out there instead of helping the attack scoring goals.
We just know we are going to concede a goal every time we play so to win we need to score 2 or more.

 

[lsd]

Makes little difference to us as our attack is garbage and our defence is garbage

 

[Skills]

Makes little difference to us as our attack is garbage and our defence is garbage

Same position Liverpool were in when Klopp took over.

 

[lsd]

Same position Liverpool were in when Klopp took over.

Yes though he went out and bought mostly foreign players whereas most of the cafe want Ole to just buy English players,

 

[Inigo Montoya]

"Attacks win you games, defences win you titles", Sir Alex Ferguson...he knew a thing or two about making teams.

This!

Every coach from kids to youth to seniors knows that defence is the most important position on the pitch.

Teams have won titles with meagre goal hauls but mean defences

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yes though he went out and bought mostly foreign players whereas most of the cafe want Ole to just buy English players,

What utter garbage and smacks of posters who can't or don't read

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Greece says hello..

That isn´t really the truth, of course it helps but a great team starts with a great defence.
If don´t concede you don´t loose and there starts the platform to build on. Good teams don´t have to play beautiful football.

If you have any doubts just look at both City and Liverpool. Liverpool just scraped CL qualifying last season but they signed a top defender and a great keeper.
City have spent something like 300m on keepers and defenders.
It also helps the attack to know that 1 goal could be enough so there is a huge pressure lifted and there will come freedom to score more as the defense is trusted to do it´s job.

Our foundation is broken, our defense is shit and there in lies most of our problem as our midfield is focused on helping out there instead of helping the attack scoring goals.
We just know we are going to concede a goal every time we play so to win we need to score 2 or more.

... Greece is NOT a grreat team.

 

[VP89]

Foundation of any great team is in defence. Always.

 

[lsd]

What utter garbage and smacks of posters who can't or don't read

Yeah I must have dreamed the we must buy English players thread

 

[poleglass red]

The normal consensus for building a team would be to get your backline secure first. Klopp went about it differently. He actually changed his whole approach from scoffing at us paying big money for Pogba "'If you bring one player in for £100m and he gets injured, then it all goes through the chimney,'The day that this is football, I'm not in a job anymore, because the game is about playing together" "'I want to do it differently. I would even do it differently if I could spend that money." As soon as he got big money from Coutinho his not spending massive amounts on one player rationale went out the window and he splashed out on VVD and Alison. As others have said we have neither at the minute, and we'll not be able to address that in one transfer window.

 

[arthurka]

... Greece is NOT a grreat team.

Is no.. But Greece won the Euro 2004 without any special players or having a great attacking team didn´t they?
That was one of the best team effort in the history of the sport.

 

[JJ12]

Yes though he went out and bought mostly foreign players whereas most of the cafe want Ole to just buy English players,

I've read people (like myself) wanting a strong British core but not seen anyone say they 'just' want English players.

For example we need a CB. No English CB's are good enough in my opinion so we look somewhere else.

In my opinion AWB, Rice, Sancho, CHO, Brooks (Welsh but still British), and maybe one or 2 others would be good signings - some are also unattainable so again we look elsewhere. It doesn't help that our current core of British players are some of issues with this squad (Jones, Young, Lingard, etc) - they just simply aren't good enough.

I think it's important to have a strong British core and others disagree and that's fine but nobody has asked for an all British/English squad - that we all agree on.

 

[Roboc7]

It starts with a plan which is synchronised on and off the pitch. Whether we start from attack or defence isn’t really relevant. The players, coaches and recruitment all needs to be pulling in the same direction.

Ole needs to have attitude that anyone who doesn’t or can’t be part of his plan needs to be moved on as soon as is realistically possible. I suspect this could be quite a lot so time will be necessary.

 

[do.ob]

I think a great team starts with a cohesive core. You get a coach with an idea, he finds a way to make it work in the context of the club, league, squad and then you start replacing the players who don't fully fit your positional profile with players who do.

 

[Green_Red]

Success is built on solid defences. Attack is secondary.

 

[Pav1878]

Every great team has a great defence, midfield and attack.

And I agree with some on here who have already said that defence begins with the work done through pressing by attackers.

Firmino is the best example in world football of this. He's incredible. And this wasn't a huge part of his game in the Bundesliga. He has been coached by Klopp. As much as I can't stand teh guy, he know how to coach his attacking players to help the team. We could learn a lot from them....(vomits)

 

[André Dominguez]

The foundation of great teams are laid on quality of the players and the way the squad works as a whole. You can be the best manager ever of the history of the game, but if there's no quality and balance in your squad no miracles will make you win.

 

[Inigo Montoya]

Yeah I must have dreamed the we must buy English players thread

Yes, you missed the part where I said 'only English' players.

Go back and read!

 

[OohAahMartial]

Football is interdependent. Hard to have a great attack without a good defense and midfield. For example, some of our attackers rarely get the ball at all. The ball is already lost before it ever gets near them. What is the attack supposed to do when so many of the attacks revolve around Young or Valencia before him crossing into the shins of the opponent? Nowadays, the full backs are part of the offense, and that has been our weakness for years, on both sides. Shaw might be our player of the year, but compare his attacking output to Liverpool's full backs...

I do agree though that we need a better attack, but football is a confidence game and it's hard to be confident when you are conceding goals. Yesterday we started off with the best attacking play of the last 2 months, and they reverted to poor form once the defence let them down.

 

[FootyGirl88]

Every great team has a great defence, midfield and attack.

And I agree with some on here who have already said that defence begins with the work done through pressing by attackers.

Firmino is the best example in world football of this. He's incredible. And this wasn't a huge part of his game in the Bundesliga. He has been coached by Klopp. As much as I can't stand teh guy, he know how to coach his attacking players to help the team. We could learn a lot from them....(vomits)

I agree - defence starts from the front

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

I agree with this. Attack is just not about having a good striker though, but you also need to create the chances.
I think scoring more goals give you higher potential to gain more points than just conceding a few. 50 goals scored and 50 goals conceded will give you more points statistically than 30 goals scored and 30 goals conceded due to getting more wins and less draws on average.
In cups if you are good at penalties a great defence could be enough to not get knocked out though. In the league though 1 win and 1 defeat is better than two draws so a good attack is more important.

I do think it is easier to implement a good defense than a good attack too so I would put more effort into improving the attack. Although both things goes both way. If you press well it can give you the ball more and make you concede less goals as well as allow you to score more goals. Thus it would improve you both way. By being better at keeping possesion it could help you create chances as well as make you concede less goals since the other teams have less time on the ball.
A good team need to do well both with and without the ball.

Personally I like being agressive in style although it cost a lot of energy. Press well to win the ball back and then attack with pace and take risks. Crossing and good movement in the box is key and also using quick passes to open up space and give time to play the final balls. I hope and think Ole might use this style next season.

 

[pcaming]

Fact is we need to strengthen every department. The attack is too much of a mix and match and not enough specialists. Midfield is incapable of dominating any team, slow, ponderous and wasteful. Defence requires a leader and replacements of the old guard. Goalkeeper depends on DDG frame of mind.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Football is interdependent. Hard to have a great attack without a good defense and midfield. For example, some of our attackers rarely get the ball at all. The ball is already lost before it ever gets near them. What is the attack supposed to do when so many of the attacks revolve around Young or Valencia before him crossing into the shins of the opponent? Nowadays, the full backs are part of the offense, and that has been our weakness for years, on both sides. Shaw might be our player of the year, but compare his attacking output to Liverpool's full backs...

I do agree though that we need a better attack, but football is a confidence game and it's hard to be confident when you are conceding goals. Yesterday we started off with the best attacking play of the last 2 months, and they reverted to poor form once the defence let them down.

Confidence is an interesting thing. You would think that you would gain as much confidence from scoring goals though. Although I think it may depend on different players and different mentalities.
I think say a manager like Mourinho would probably rather take a 0-0 over a 1-1. Although other managers might gain more confidence from high scoring games and I do think Ole is one of them, but I do think they are more rare. Defenders should gain more confidence from low scoring games and attackers should gain more from high scoring games in theory.

Having a clean sheet probably gives a great feeling to both goalkeepers and defenders though since it feels like the job has been done. While when you score the confidence might only be gained by the guy scoring the goal even if the rest of the team has played well too in order to create the goals.

The main thing for your confidence in the end is probably getting wins though and I do think the attack is slightly more important than the defense for that.

 

[Ekeke]

Yes though he went out and bought mostly foreign players whereas most of the cafe want Ole to just buy English players,

He bought a lot of premier league players though

 

[Halds]

The foundations of great teams start with their attacks.

The foundations of great teams start with their defense.

The foundations of great teams start with their midfield.

All of these are fairly interchangeable and pointless statements.

Agreed. You can start wherever you want, but ultimately all great teams have had both and a midfield to compliment them. You need a great spine to make a great team. I'd start with that and build from there.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Is no.. But Greece won the Euro 2004 without any special players or having a great attacking team didn´t they?
That was one of the best team effort in the history of the sport.

that was a fluke.. they were extremely lucky and played the most atrocious boring football ever played!

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I think our fludity, cohesion and potency in attack is a tougher puzzle to fix than our defensive problems. So in our case the OP is correct.

 

[glazed]

The foundation of a great team is a strategy that is hard to defeat and players capable of executing it. Not random tinkering and impulse hiring. The foundation of a great team is an owner who really really cares about having a great team.

 

[harms]

Is no.. But Greece won the Euro 2004 without any special players or having a great attacking team didn´t they?
That was one of the best team effort in the history of the sport.

1. It was a short cup competition.
2. They were seriously lucky — they've did everything in their power, but without significant amount of luck they wouldn't have been nowhere near the win.

They were not a great team.

 

[Fortitude]

Pep builds his teams from midfield first. Where does he fit into this theory?

 

[Arka_BleedingRed]

The definition of Football has changed nowadays. Simply having a good defence will not lead to titles. Ask Atletico Madrid, a solid team at the back and tactics wise but are hardly winning titles or cups these days. Bayern haven't replaced Ribery, Robben and are paying the price in CL, despite having Hummels, Boateng, Neuer at their peak until 1-2 years ago.

With their emphasis on possession and movements, most modern teams are building their team starting from a good attack and midfield, then defence. Until and unless we have a good attacking unit AND a good tactical style of attacking football, we are going to win Nada. Having a cohesive attack and midfield might compensate for a slightly weaker defence, but the vice-versa certainly isn't true. This is because defence by itself is reactive in nature and attack is proactive. With all the emphasis on proaction in modern football, reactive first football is dying. So, a top tier defender like Varane, Koulibaly are usually the last piece of the puzzle not the first piece.

Lukaku, Alexis and Matic all thanks to Jose were the worst possible signings for us looking back. Matic and Alexis were over the hill but expensive, Alexis broke the wage structure completely, and Lukaku was at the right age but completely wrong profile of an attacker to take our team forward.

 

[buckooo1978]

it's certainly the most fun way to build

the question is how many of our attackers would start for Liverpool or City?

The answer is none

I'd sign 2 attacking players alongside a RB, CB and a CM minimum