The Gareth SouthGOAT Appreciation Club ft. no fun at all

[Sterling Archer]

Deserves to stay in charge thru the next Euros at least, in my opinion.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Bravo, Gareth. A lot of people eating crow these last few weeks.

 

[noodlehair]

You did see what happened when he swapped Rashford for Sterling?

No? Or are you implying the reason Croatia's three midfielders were able to get on top of England's non existent midfield is because Rashford came on? ...Even though this was happening a good 10 minutes before Rashford was even on the pitch?

I thought he should have been bringing in help for Henderson when he made that change. In fact I thought it was very obvious by that point. To the point him swapping Sterling for Rashford and ignoring the problem was very annoying.

Sterling doesn't work as a striker or no10 for England. He never has and it isn't going to suddenly just work out of nowhere. He doesn't pass the ball when he should, or keep the ball when he should, and his finishing is a million miles from reliable enough...to the point how many chances he gets is pretty much an irrelevance to the outcome of the game. It's not like he's done anything in any game for England to bring this into dispute. Most people seemed to think he shouldn't be in the team going into the world cup, then he proceeded to be England's least effective player in every game he played barring tonight...And even tonight what actual effect has he had on the result? You play forward players to create or score goals. Sterling literally has a worse record for doing that than our bloody centrebacks do.

 

[SER19]

I thought southgate did well. Englands first half was their best 45 of the tournament by a distance and i thought they stifled croatia really well with alli performing his defensive duties well in that half. Southgate has shown he has tactical nous and should undoubtedly be in charge at the euros. If they go to knockouts of that playing well he should get the next world cup too. The country and players have really taken to him, and he has the chance to really cement his place as the boss of english football for a few years.

Composure let them down in the second half with lingard and walker needlessly involving themselves in nonsense and that unflustered composure they have shown faltered then collapsed. There was a nothing moment about 66th minute when croat defender played sideways ball and it was the first time it looked like england had lost a bit of shape and tactical discipline. Later emotions were just taking over everything while croatia were calm and confident- pickford in particular after a great tournament could learn to calm down a little. Alli it goes without saying needs to mature a little

 

[Judas]

He'll learn a lot from this. He's not like the stubborn managers we've had in the past. All the missteps he's made, I'd expect him to rectify. I trust him, which is odd, didn't think I'd be saying that after the world cup when he first got appointed.

 

[11101]

He did well, far better than expectations. He's shed the old guard and it feels like he is confident to play who he wants rather than who the media or FA tell him to.

Having said that, he showed some tactical naivety at times. Both half decent teams we played beat us. He also needs to conjure some midfielders out of thin air in time for 2022.

 

[Judge Red]

As an overall package, the best England coach since Venables. No coincidence he’s already the most successful since then too.

The players believe in him. He believes in the players. That goes a long way. Perfect relationship with the media doesn’t hurt either.

Needs to work on substitutions. Then again, better subs would help.

 

[Judas]

On paper it was obvious where are weakness was going to be when the squad was announced. He'll learn from it I'm sure.

 

[Revan]

On paper it was obvious where are weakness was going to be when the squad was announced. He'll learn from it I'm sure.

I think that the midfield was weak, but there were hardly that many choices. Maybe Shelvey, but that's it. I think that he compensated for the lack of quality midfielders by playing 5 at the back, with all of them being really comfortable on the ball. I mean, England was actually playing with one midfielder (two if you count Kane) for large portions of the matches, but bar 20 minutes against Colombia and yesterday (excluding first 55 minutes) they never lost the midfield battle.

He should learn to be more proactive, and hope that England produces a good midfielder or two for the next Euros/World Cup.

 

[Castia]

The manager’s job is to react right to the flow of the game. Ultimately how well we played in the first half is irrelevant. When it was going against us early in the second half he should’ve changed it.

The CAF constantly criticises managers for having no plan B, why should Southgate be different?

We were ahead and simply needed to manage the game. Well before Croatia scored the flow of the game shifted to them. At that point he needed to change it. He didn’t, we lost.

You can pat him on the back for being a cheerleader rather than changing things. I choose not to.

Well he wasn't ever going to change the formation he believes in it, he made 4 changes between the second half and full time he couldn't really have done much more they were simply the better side after half time.

Like i said you call the first half irrelevant which is fair enough but on another day we're 3-0 up at HT and its game over with Southgate being on the verge of a knighthood its fine lines.

 

[#07]

Well he wasn't ever going to change the formation he believes in it, he made 4 changes between the second half and full time he couldn't really have done much more they were simply the better side after half time.

Like i said you call the first half irrelevant which is fair enough but on another day we're 3-0 up at HT and its game over with Southgate being on the verge of a knighthood its fine lines.

Okay but it wasn't another day. It was a day we came out after half time and got dominated. Before Croatia scores he has to change it. He can't just keep playing one holding player and letting Rakitic and Modric dominate the game. He needs to bring in another holding player and give the defence more cover. Like for like subs did nothing to help us. Tactically naive. Again, I contrast it with Deschamps introducing Tolisso and Nzonzi to protect 1-0. If we'd have subbed Dele or Jesse for Dier after 50 minutes, when Croatia were massively ascendant, we may well ground out a 1-0.

I think back to our much discussed European Cup semi final with Barcelona in 2008. First half we were incisive on the counter and Nani should've finished the game. Second half though we came under pressure and Sir Alex adjusted our tactics and played in a way that let us soak up pressure. Sir Alex, despite the romatic crap that gets written about him, was incredibly pragmatic. He'd stick Nicky Butt on Steve McMananaman if he had to, he'd tell our players to kick Arsenal off the pitch if we had to.

Twice in the knockout rounds, against Colombia and Croatia, we've surrendered 1-0 leads. Its not good enough. Our game management is poor. That comes from the manager. He's a nice guy. So was Kevin Keegan. There's no trophies awarded for nice guy who looks cool on the touchline in a suave waistcoat.

 

[TMDaines]

The escapism of the last few weeks has masked a lot of genuine questions. England performed worse than I expected at the World Cup, even if a semi final is slight overachievement based on where they stood relatively when the tournament started. It’s good to overachieve for once, but we did underperform in several games. Ludicrously England managed to have the same number of shots on target in open play in 600 minutes as Saudi Arabia did in 270 minutes. That’s appalling. No team can rely on set pieces long term to the extent that England did here.

Things could change quickly for Southgate, both for better and worse. A tired England have to play Belgium in a 3rd place playoff with a day’s less rest and more emotional baggage, and then before the end of the year we meet Spain twice and Croatia twice in the Nations League. Performances against good sides need to come quickly, otherwise the manager may not even get to the Euro qualifiers. The Nations League was scoffed at, but it may stop some of the drift that tends to happen post World Cup with the now easier Euros qualifiers. People, the British especially, scoffed at the World Cup when it started, but the Nations League may catch on.

Southgate is clearly smart though. He knows England have not played as well as they should have done, and he almost certainly knows that this level of performance wouldn’t ordinarily see you reach a final. I hope he focusses on his strengths and can bring in some top coaches to assist with the rest.

Edit: Missed a “not” in final para.

 

[Revan]

The escapism of the last few weeks has masked a lot of genuine questions. England performed worse than I expected at the World Cup, even if a semi final is slight overachievement based on where they stood relatively when the tournament started. It’s good to overachieve for once, but we did underperform in several games. Ludicrously England managed to have the same number of shots on target in open play in 600 minutes as Saudi Arabia did in 270 minutes. That’s appalling. No team can rely on set pieces long term to the extent that England did here.

Things could change quickly for Southgate, both for better and worse. A tired England have to play Belgium in a 3rd place playoff with a day’s less rest and more emotional baggage, and then before the end of the year we meet Spain twice and Croatia twice in the Nations League. Performances against good sides need to come quickly, otherwise the manager may not even get to the Euro qualifiers. The Nations League was scoffed at, but it may stop some of the drift that tends to happen post World Cup with the now easier Euros qualifiers. People, the British especially, scoffed at the World Cup when it started, but the Nations League may catch on.

Southgate is clearly smart though. He knows England have played as well as they should have, and he almost certainly know that this level of performance wouldn’t ordinarily see you reach a final. I hope he focusses on his strengths and can bring in some top coaches to assist with the rest.

Does anyone care about Nations League though? Not more than for friendly matches, I think.

 

[Castia]

Okay but it wasn't another day. It was a day we came out after half time and got dominated. Before Croatia scores he has to change it. He can't just keep playing one holding player and letting Rakitic and Modric dominate the game. He needs to bring in another holding player and give the defence more cover. Like for like subs did nothing to help us. Tactically naive. Again, I contrast it with Deschamps introducing Tolisso and Nzonzi to protect 1-0. If we'd have subbed Dele or Jesse for Dier after 50 minutes, when Croatia were massively ascendant, we may well ground out a 1-0.

I think back to our much discussed European Cup semi final with Barcelona in 2008. First half we were incisive on the counter and Nani should've finished the game. Second half though we came under pressure and Sir Alex adjusted our tactics and played in a way that let us soak up pressure. Sir Alex, despite the romatic crap that gets written about him, was incredibly pragmatic. He'd stick Nicky Butt on Steve McMananaman if he had to, he'd tell our players to kick Arsenal off the pitch if we had to.

Twice in the knockout rounds, against Colombia and Croatia, we've surrendered 1-0 leads. Its not good enough. Our game management is poor. That comes from the manager. He's a nice guy. So was Kevin Keegan. There's no trophies awarded for nice guy who looks cool on the touchline in a suave waistcoat.

It's all hindsight though, if he brings on a defensive player and we lose he'd be slaughtered for trying to 'park the bus' or 'close up shop', Jose does that shit all the time we get a 1-0 lead and stop playing and 90% people on this site give him shit for it.

I'm glad you mentioned SAF and Barcelona because they ran us off the park in 2 CL finals making us look like amateurs in the process, SAF may be the greatest manager that ever lived but didn't have a system or way to deal with Barcelona that's no shame to SAF Barce were the better side.

Meh anyway were getting off topic and probably wont agree so lets leave it there I cba spending my day going over last nights game tbh.

 

[Sunspear17]

Should have taken Wilshere and Mason Mount.

 

[TMDaines]

Does anyone care about Nations League though? Not more than for friendly matches, I think.

We’ll see over time. I think it is good to give international football some more structure rather than meaningless friendlies. If England want to win something, here would be a good start. As I said, the British, especially the English, scoffed at the World Cup at first.

Going to be difficult to positively spin not doing well in four matches against two top European sides either way. They should be good test matches.

 

[KM]

He needs a tactically astute person as his assistant manager imo. His man management skills are top class but his subs were pretty average/awful throughout the tournament. Someone experienced too as he is also quite inexperienced but England should and will keep him till the next world cup.

 

[#07]

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[Ish]

Seems to be riding the crest of the wave of lowered expectations, IMO, which means he's over achieved with this squad. (either way, a SF at a WC is nothing to scoff at).

Yet I take it there's still a bit of a disappointment, going out like they did. Especially considering how good an opportunity this was for England to reach the final.

Hopefully the team grows together, maybe with the emergence of a class central midfielder or 2 to add in, in the near future. Lots of positives, but also lots of question marks.

 

[barmyarmy]

Man has done a great job without a proper midfielder but he needs to develop tactically it was very naive being a goal up around with 22 mins left to be in WC finals he should have brought on a midfielder for sterling or even when he brought rashford on should have asked him play wide as croatia identified the space in wide areas and overloaded one side for crosses and scored their first goal. should have allowed kane to stay on lovren and bring other into game as we were sending long balls everytime. Delph would have been a better substitution and man marked modric every time he had the ball.

We need to hire croatia's fitness coach after being involved in two consecutive penalty shootouts they gave their all. Vrsaljko won the match for them an assist & goal line clearance in Extra time.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

So does he stay with the national team or go for a lucrative offer from some club as soon as it comes along?

 

[Buchan]

Smalling is incapable of playing out from the back which clearly forms the bedrock of this new England team. Maguire and Stones are light years ahead of him in that respect which is why they are in the team. I respect Southgate for that and it was the right call.

England hoofed it long and over the top pretty much all night last night, and especially when Croatia pressed them high up the field. Go away with that nonsense ‘ball-playing’ narrative. It’s a flat-out myth.

 

[reelworld]

Don't understand the negativity around him tbh. He's done brilliantly in this World Cup. I think tactically he's quite astute, his ability to masked England lack of quality in midfield show us that. His in-game management could be much better though, but I'm optimistic that he'll be better at that.
Subbing off Henderson for Dier is poor decision as average Henderson was, he was the only decent midfielder in the team. Should've subbed off either Lingard or Alli for Dier if he wanted to shut up shop. Any control England have in midifield was gone when Dier came on.

You've gotta remember that he's still a very young and inexperienced manager himself. Euro 2020 will be interesting in regards what he'll do to improve this England team.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

No? Or are you implying the reason Croatia's three midfielders were able to get on top of England's non existent midfield is because Rashford came on? ...Even though this was happening a good 10 minutes before Rashford was even on the pitch?

I thought he should have been bringing in help for Henderson when he made that change. In fact I thought it was very obvious by that point. To the point him swapping Sterling for Rashford and ignoring the problem was very annoying.

Sterling doesn't work as a striker or no10 for England. He never has and it isn't going to suddenly just work out of nowhere. He doesn't pass the ball when he should, or keep the ball when he should, and his finishing is a million miles from reliable enough...to the point how many chances he gets is pretty much an irrelevance to the outcome of the game. It's not like he's done anything in any game for England to bring this into dispute. Most people seemed to think he shouldn't be in the team going into the world cup, then he proceeded to be England's least effective player in every game he played barring tonight...And even tonight what actual effect has he had on the result? You play forward players to create or score goals. Sterling literally has a worse record for doing that than our bloody centrebacks do.

Bingo - Alli was our LCM and Henderson was the only one who knew what was doing - even dier should have come on earlier.

 

[antihenry]

One thing I liked about this English team is Gareth Southgate. Conducted himself very well throughout, I thought. I read Russian articles from people around English camp in Repino and everybody had nothing but nice things to say about the man. A true British gentleman, if you will. Good luck to him in the future.

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[wythyred]

I really like Southgate as person and I think his man management is excellent but he got it wrong tactically last night and I think he will never be good enough in that aspect.

One thing he should consider is getting a really good tactical coach involved in the set up.

 

[Icemav]

I think Southgate did a superb job choosing and setting up a side set up to accommodate effectively not having a midfield. It was a good but limited strategy to have goalkeeper and defense with great distribution who could build play and work up the flanks to our fast wingers and attackers.

The problems however came when this tactic was nullified which is what Croatia did in the second half. They pressed the daylights out of our defense and Henderson and we had to hoof the ball. Henderson had no ability to receive the ball under pressure, either playing it back to the defense or turning and knocking it long (where it never got close to finding a teammate). Croatia's midfield then took over and it was a joy to watch Modric and Rakjitic operate a double pivot on opposite sides of the pitch and switch play so effortlessly into space. No doubt by the end of the game the best team won though we certainly matched them upfront and in defense.

So overall I think Southgate maximised the potential of this exciting group of players, and if he had both a Scholes and Carrick in the team we could have perhaps won the whole thing. Scholes would have loved last nights game playing in front of that back 4 and with those fast attackers to distribute to. As it was we were lacking in that department, and I don't think that players like Henderson and Young (Rebic wrecked him all game, and Mbappe would have permanently retired him) should be gracing a world cup final. Matuidi Kante and Pogba would have dominated us. And Croatia aside there were several teams that would beaten us had we faced them with this midfield weakness: Brazil, Argentina, Belgium, France and perhaps a couple of others.

I congratulate Southgate for putting up a good showing and creating a team whose efforts should be celebrated. He selected a very enthusiastic and harmonious group of young players who formed a cohesive team that largely performed to their potential. I hope though in the future he can resolve this midfield issue with new talent (our stocks are empty) otherwise we shall not develop further.

 

[sincher]

I really like Southgate as person and I think his man management is excellent but he got it wrong tactically last night and I think he will never be good enough in that aspect.

One thing he should consider is getting a really good tactical coach involved in the set up.

I think you have to give him credit for a lot of his tactical setups as well though, and his selections - Pickford, Walker, Trippier, Maguire etc.

 

[Utdstar01]

I've enjoyed seeing him bring in a lot of young players and flushing out the old. There's an energy about England now and I'm excited to see this team grow over the next couple of years with big prospects coming through the youth setup.

He needs to learn and become more pragmatic. The best managers react quickly and are decisive in those situations. He didn't and we paid for it unfortunately.

 

[Judas]

So does he stay with the national team or go for a lucrative offer from some club as soon as it comes along?

Can't see too many clubs lining up any big offers. He's tactically got a lot of work to do as a manager, shown nativity quite often throughout the tournament, mostly during matches. I think he's set us up well for every game beforehand though.

 

[Oggmonster]

Hope he sticks around. Needs to change his attitude towards subs as he should of done them much sooner and more effective but I really like him. Seems the players want to play for him to which helps massively. Looking forward to what he does in the future and am confident he and the team will improve.

 

[Revan]

England hoofed it long and over the top pretty much all night last night, and especially when Croatia pressed them high up the field. Go away with that nonsense ‘ball-playing’ narrative. It’s a flat-out myth.

It is not a myth if they did it for 5.5 out of 6 matches.

 

[Judas]

How are people saying we were a long ball team? What utter rewriting of history. Last night we used that tactic, but I can't remember it being deployed all that often before. If it had been, certainly would have seen Sterling getting more praise I think, as he did his job well last night.

 

[Icemav]

How are people saying we were a long ball team? What utter rewriting of history. Last night we used that tactic, but I can't remember it being deployed all that often before. If it had been, certainly would have seen Sterling getting more praise I think, as he did his job well last night.

I don't think it was a tactic as much as a consequence. Croatia pressed our defense relentlessly and with no deep midfield (and Hendo constantly panicking) we smacked it long.

 

[Judas]

Either way, calling us long-ball merchants reeks of bitterness and cluelessness to me.

 

[buchansleftleg]

How are people saying we were a long ball team? What utter rewriting of history. Last night we used that tactic, but I can't remember it being deployed all that often before. If it had been, certainly would have seen Sterling getting more praise I think, as he did his job well last night.

For me Sterling is at a crossroads...

he created pockets of space
he made great runs
he pulled the Croatian defence apart in the first half

However he just seemed to also....
hold onto the ball too long
give the ball away just as his colleagues committed themselves forward to support him
take up blocking positions that limit the choices of his team-mates.

He seems to offer a threat for 30 - 40 minutes but then fades away. For that reason for me long term he suits being an impact sub rather than a starter. Southgate needs to see how he can offer a plan B and plan C if he can get the players to offer a different threat.

 

[Buchan]

It is not a myth if they did it for 5.5 out of 6 matches.

Against second-rate teams, yes (and in a match they didn’t want to win when playing their opponent’s own reserve team), but as soon as the pressure came on, they folded. They also imploded late on against Colombia, lest we forget.

 

[Judas]

Imploded? Conceded a late goal is imploding now?

 

[Revan]

Against second-rate teams, yes (and in a match they didn’t want to win when playing their opponent’s own reserve team), but as soon as the pressure came on, they folded. They also imploded late on against Colombia, lest we forget.

Never said that they were prime-Spain in that aspect. But obviously that was his plan and he tried to implement it. He was successful in doing so for 5.5 matches.

Of course, we can debate to death if passing from the back is the right way of playing football (I don't believe there is a right way, you can play great football in different ways). However, Southgate achieved more than England in the last 10 tournaments combined, so seeing him criticized by sticking with his ideas (which turned to be successful) is a bit weird.

 

[barros]

He will learn, Vardy should be in when England was still ahead, at the time Croatia was attacking and Sterling really wasn't doing anything. I think England is going to win a WC sooner then anybody thinks probably the next WC.