The Glazers.

[M Bison]

Not at all, Smalling & Jones had been at the club 3 & 2 years and had never shown anything to suggest they would ever be as good as Rio & Vidic. Anderson was in his 6th season whilst Cleverly & Wellbeck had been around a few years. They were all squad players and nowhere near the world class players they were expected to replace and we knew this back in 2013. Replacing Fergie with Moyes was a huge mistakes but it doesn't hide the fact that our first 11 was extremely short on quality players in their 20's.

If you're apportioning blame, thats down to SAF, although thats been pointed out numerous times on here so i expect you'll ignore this and just starting talking about debt repayments and some made up numbers again.

 

[Redjazz]

......... At one stage 40% of the clubs turnover was been spent on interest payments and its like.

You are correct (for 2010/2011). About 36% of revenue went to interest payments and its like. That sort of accuracy should entitle a man to an apology or two.

The cash flow statment is a better source for debt related costs than the income statement.

If spending restrictions ever applied then the period between the bond issue in 2010 and the IPO in 2012 would be my choice; and the argument would be as much about financial planning\priorities as cash availability.

 

[DanClancy]

If you're apportioning blame, thats down to SAF, although thats been pointed out numerous times on here so i expect you'll ignore this and just starting talking about debt repayments and some made up numbers again.

Another poster telling me I've made up numbers. I haven't made anything up when it comes to any of the figures I've stated about the interest payments and its like.

You're going to find this very difficult aren't you?

 

[VanGaalyTime]

The scary thing is, despite the limited spending (in comparison to the size of the club) in recent years, there's talk of cutting spending in the coming years from Woodward. Pogba was the start of Glazers paying United back for the millions taken out of the club, not the end.

 

[DanClancy]

If you're apportioning blame, thats down to SAF, although thats been pointed out numerous times on here so i expect you'll ignore this and just starting talking about debt repayments and some made up numbers again.

Another poster telling me I've made up numbers. I haven't made anything up when it comes to any of the figures I've stated about the interest payments and its like.

You're going to find this very difficult aren't you?

You've gone very quiet M Bison?

 

[M Bison]

You've gone very quiet M Bison?

Yes I have, you've made a fool of yourself in this thread despite having the details explained for you repeatedly. There's no point in going over old ground.

 

[prath92]

The scary thing is, despite the limited spending (in comparison to the size of the club) in recent years, there's talk of cutting spending in the coming years from Woodward. Pogba was the start of Glazers paying United back for the millions taken out of the club, not the end.

What is that based on?

 

[DanClancy]

Yes I have, you've made a fool of yourself in this thread despite having the details explained for you repeatedly. There's no point in going over old ground.

Good man, trying to deflect away from your own stupidity.

Show me which figures are way off the mark?

 

[VanGaalyTime]

What is that based on?

I'll try to find it, but there was a Woodward quote from a call with financial groups that basically said United were going to get spending back to sustainable levels in coming windows, after having "spent large amounts" in recent years. With City spending well and even teams like Liverpool and Chelsea spending this summer, United will have to follow suit.

 

[Jaxdan]

Good man, trying to deflect away from your own stupidity.

Show me which figures are way off the mark?

Not really my fight here, but perhaps he's just tired of going round and round on the same points? Same stats/figures have been posted numerous times. I don't think anyone is budging from their entrenched positions.

 

[M Bison]

Not really my fight here, but perhaps he's just tired of going round and round on the same points? Same stats/figures have been posted numerous times. I don't think anyone is budging from their entrenched positions.

Precisely.

 

[DanClancy]

Not really my fight here, but perhaps he's just tired of going round and round on the same points? Same stats/figures have been posted numerous times. I don't think anyone is budging from their entrenched positions.

Its very clear when it comes to figures, I didn't make anything up which several posters have accused me of doing so but not one of them can actually prove me wrong.

Poor M Bison thought he'd join in but has been found out, he hasn't a clue when it comes to the figures.

 

[togg]

I personally think the Glazers have turned out to be really good owners. When you think about some of the truly destructive interfering awful owners around the leagues today that have absolutely ruined the clubs they have bought. IE - Covernty City (Sisu), Aston Villa (Rander Lerner), Blackburn Rovers (Venky's), Leeds United (Massimo Cellino), Cardiff (Malaysian consortium including Vindent Tan), Blackpool (Owen Oyston), Nottingham Forest (Fawaz Al- Hasawi), Leyton Orient (Francesco Becchetti)

We ain't done too bad!!

 

[Jaxdan]

Its very clear when it comes to figures, I didn't make anything up which several posters have accused me of doing so but not one of them can actually prove me wrong.

Poor M Bison thought he'd join in but has been found out, he hasn't a clue when it comes to the figures.

And I'm not disputing your numbers. Honestly, the minutiae is not all that interesting to me. It was just a general observation on the constant back and forth as I see it as a fellow poster.

All I know is the club is currently valued as the highest in the world, about triple it's worth since The Glazers bought it, so they must be doing something right, even if their input is limited.

 

[prath92]

I'll try to find it, but there was a Woodward quote from a call with financial groups that basically said United were going to get spending back to sustainable levels in coming windows, after having "spent large amounts" in recent years. With City spending well and even teams like Liverpool and Chelsea spending this summer, United will have to follow suit.

He was saying that something to type tune of united are spending big so that they can create a long term team and don't need to spend the same amount every year. Which is good. There is no need to spend 100m net every year.

 

[VanGaalyTime]

He was saying that something to type tune of united are spending big so that they can create a long term team and don't need to spend the same amount every year. Which is good. There is no need to spend 100m net every year.

Except yes there is when you're not winning titles. City will be doing it every year. United need to keep up or forget winning.

 

[prath92]

Except yes there is when you're not winning titles. City will be doing it every year. United need to keep up or forget winning.

He wasn't talking about this window. He was talking about our long term objectives

 

[DanClancy]

And I'm not disputing your numbers. Honestly, the minutiae is not all that interesting to me. It was just a general observation on the constant back and forth as I see it as a fellow poster.

All I know is the club is currently valued as the highest in the world, about triple it's worth since The Glazers bought it, so they must be doing something right, even if their input is limited.

I'm not disputing that at all, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm simply questioning the lack of investment from 2009 to 2011 and the impact its had on the team since. Our league positions the last 4 seasons would suggest I have a point.

 

[Jaxdan]

I'm not disputing that at all, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm simply questioning the lack of investment from 2009 to 2011 and the impact its had on the team since. Our league positions the last 4 seasons would suggest I have a point.

And I don't disagree with that either. I'd say hiring Moyes (SAF's handpicked successor) had something to do with our last 4 seasons as well though.

 

[M Bison]

I'm not disputing that at all, I don't disagree with any of that.

I'm simply questioning the lack of investment from 2009 to 2011 and the impact its had on the team since. Our league positions the last 4 seasons would suggest I have a point.

The fundamental point is that funds to invest in the team were available - SAF said it himself. Regardless of what the Glazers took out in dividends and/or the club paid in interest/debt servicing, funds were available to invest in players so our problems on the field and as a consequence of our lack of investment isn't down to the Glazers.

 

[wolvored]

The scary thing is, despite the limited spending (in comparison to the size of the club) in recent years, there's talk of cutting spending in the coming years from Woodward. Pogba was the start of Glazers paying United back for the millions taken out of the club, not the end.

That wont happen. I think the pennys dropped over the last couple of years that to rake in the money money needs to be spent and a lot of it, on players, staff, infastructure etc. If we dont we will fall massively behind and lose the foreign 'fan' base, and consequently revenue. Where did you hear of cutting spending?

 

[DanClancy]

And I don't disagree with that either. I'd say hiring Moyes (SAF's handpicked successor) had something to do with our last 4 seasons as well though.

I agree, he was well out of depth but he did inherit a squad short on quality

The fundamental point is that funds to invest in the team were available - SAF said it himself. Regardless of what the Glazers took out in dividends and/or the club paid in interest/debt servicing, funds were available to invest in players so our problems on the field and as a consequence of our lack of investment isn't down to the Glazers.

But what about my figures? You backtracking and admitting they weren't wrong?

 

[M Bison]

I agree, he was well out of depth but he did inherit a squad short on quality



But what about my figures? You backtracking and admitting they weren't wrong?

This has been debated to death and is getting boring.

Unless i am misreading our interest costs in 2010 were c80m on revenue of c290m. To be honest i dont actually care, your underlying argument of our team being substandard due to the Glazers spending all our money on interest costs and ripping cash out of the club is incorrect. SAF maintained that funds were available should he need it.

To your first comment, the squad Moyes inherited was short on quality but it still won the league at a canter the previous year and only missed out on top spot the year before by Aguero's last minute goal. If you do deem there to have been a lack of investment in the squad over that period, it was rightly or wrongly down to Fergie.

 

[DanClancy]

This has been debated to death and is getting boring.

Unless i am misreading our interest costs in 2010 were c80m on revenue of c290m. To be honest i dont actually care, your underlying argument of our team being substandard due to the Glazers spending all our money on interest costs and ripping cash out of the club is incorrect. SAF maintained that funds were available should he need it.

To your first comment, the squad Moyes inherited was short on quality but it still won the league at a canter the previous year and only missed out on top spot the year before by Aguero's last minute goal. If you do deem there to have been a lack of investment in the squad over that period, it was rightly or wrongly down to Fergie.

In your opinion its incorrect, only Fergie & the Glazers will know the truth but there's no denying there's plenty of evidence to suggest there was an issue during that period.

As for the squad Fergie left I don't know how anyone can deny it was short on top quality players, by the time the next season started we didn't have one class outfield player in their 20's. It was a great team that had come to an end. They may have been champions but their certainly the poorest group of players to win the title in terms of quality.

 

[M Bison]

In your opinion its incorrect, only Fergie & the Glazers will know the truth but there's no denying there's plenty of evidence to suggest there was an issue during that period.

As for the squad Fergie left I don't know how anyone can deny it was short on top quality players, by the time the next season started we didn't have one class outfield player in their 20's. It was a great team that had come to an end. They may have been champions but their certainly the poorest group of players to win the title in terms of quality.

Whether the squad was lacking quality or not is a different debate. If as you say it was, that's down to fergie as by his own admission funds were available to invest and he didn't see value in the market.

Anything else is pure speculation and I doubt he would lie.

 

[DanClancy]

Whether the squad was lacking quality or not is a different debate. If as you say it was, that's down to fergie as by his own admission funds were available to invest and he didn't see value in the market.

Anything else is pure speculation and I doubt he would lie.

The poor quality of the squad is connected to the lack of investment from 2009 to 2011.

As for Fergie lying do you not remember Fergie's comments 6 months before selling Ronaldo to Real Madrid? “I wouldn’t sell them a virus.”

Using Fergie's words is hardly concrete evidence.

 

[derace]

we broke several transfer records under fergie and always spend high. why do you think he wasnt allowed to spend more? and how do you have evidence for that?

you call out peope for "pure speculation" and speculate yourself

 

[M Bison]

The poor quality of the squad is connected to the lack of investment from 2009 to 2011.

As for Fergie lying do you not remember Fergie's comments 6 months before selling Ronaldo to Real Madrid? “I wouldn’t sell them a virus.”

Using Fergie's words is hardly concrete evidence.

THE LACK OF INVESTMENT WAS DOWN TO SAF - HE SAID IT HIMSELF!!!!

 

[DanClancy]

THE LACK OF INVESTMENT WAS DOWN TO SAF - HE SAID IT HIMSELF!!!!

He also said he wouldn't sell Real Madrid a virus, strange how 6 months later he sold them Ronaldo.

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

All I know is the club is currently valued as the highest in the world, about triple it's worth since The Glazers bought it, so they must be doing something right, even if their input is limited.

well, that's one measure of successful ownership sure. Not the only one by any means though, we are a football club first and foremost, a business second.

 

[Rory 7]

Why do you all you guys concentrate on transfers when discussing the Glazers? There is more to their management of club than transfers you know.

 

[Random Task]

He also said he wouldn't sell Real Madrid a virus, strange how 6 months later he sold them Ronaldo.

This was simply a message to Real informing them that United have no interest in selling Ronnie, so it will cost nothing less than a world record fee in order to aquire his services. Unlike the Beckham scenario where they got him on the cheap because Fergie wanted rid.

Learn to read between the lines my friend.

 

[Sky1981]

@DanClancy

You know how much we spent on transfer under glazer?

Take a guess, and you can compare it to any other teams (yes, even madrid) we're not showing any lack of investment.

Unless you really want to nitpick on those 2 period where we still won the league mind you.

 

[Sky1981]

2005

Ins:
Edwin van der Sar (Fulham), £2m
Ji-Sung Park (PSV Eindhoven), £4m
Ben Foster (Stoke City), £1.5m

Total Spend: £7.5m

Outs:
Phil Neville (Everton), £3m
Kleberson (Besiktas), £2.5m
Roy Carroll (West Ham United), free
Roy Keane (Celtic), free

Total Received: £5.5m

Net Spend: £2m

2006

Ins:
Nemanja Vidic (Spartak Moscow), £7m
Patrice Evra (AS Monaco), £5.5m
Michael Carrick (Tottenham Hotspur), £18.6m
Tomasz Kuszczak (West Bromwich Albion), loan (part-exchange)

Total Spend: £31.1m

Outs:
Jami Puustinen (FC Honka), free
David Fox (Blackpool), free
Kenny Cooper (FC Dallas), free
Colin Heath (Chesterfield), free
Luke Steele (West Bromwich Albion), part-exchange
Paul McShane (West Bromwich Albion), part-exchange
Jonathan Spector (West Ham United), £500k
David Bellion (Nice), £1m
Quinton Fortune (Bolton Wanderers), free
Ruud van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid), £10.2m
Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (Plymouth Argyle), £200k
Liam Miller (Sunderland), free

Total Received: £11.9m

Net Spend: £19.2m

2007

Ins:
Henrik Larsson (Helsingborgs IF), loan
Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), £17m
Nani (Sporting Lisbon), £14m
Anderson (FC Porto), £17m
Tomasz Kuszczak (West Bromwich Albion), £2m
Carlos Tevez (loan), £5m

Total Spend: £55m

Outs:
David Jones (Derby County), £1m
Tim Howard (Everton), £3m
Kieran Richardson (Sunderland), £5m
Giuseppe Rossi (Villarreal), £6.7m
Alan Smith (Newcastle United), £6m
Gabriel Heinze (Real Madrid), £8m
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer (retired)

Total Received: £29.7m

Net Spend: £25.3m

2008

Ins:
Manucho (Petro Atletico), undisclosed
Rodrigo Possebon (Internacional), undisclosed
Phil Bardsley (Sunderland), £2m
Davide Petrucci (AS Roma), £200k
Fabio da Silva (Fluminense), £2.5m
Rafael da Silva (Fluminense), £2.5m
Carlos Tevez (loan), £5m
Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham Hotspur), £30.75m

Total Spend: £42.95m

Outs:
Adam Eckersley (Port Vale), free
Ryan Shawcross (Stoke City), £1m
Phil Bardsley (Sunderland), £2m
Kieran Lee (Oldham Athletic), free
Gerard Pique (Barcelona), £5m
Chris Eagles (Burnley), £1.25m
Mikael Silvestre (Arsenal), £750k
Dong Fanhzhou (Dalian Shide), free
Louis Saha (Everton), nominal

Total Received: £10m

Net Spend: £32.95m

2009

Ins:
Zoran Tosic (Partizan Belgrade), £6m
Richie de Laet (Stoke City), undisclosed
Antonio Valencia (Wigan Athletic), £16m
Michael Owen (Newcastle United), free
Gabriel Obertan (Bordeaux), £3m
Mame Biram Diouf (Molde FK), £3.5m

Total Spend: £28.5m

Outs:
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid), £80m
Lee Martin (Ispwich Town), £1m
Fraizer Campbell (Sunderland), £3.5m
Richard Eckersley (Burnley), £500k
Manucho (Real Valladolid), undisclosed

Total Received: £85m

Net Spend: -£56.5m

2010

Ins:
Marnick Vermijl (Standard Liege), undisclosed
Chris Smalling (Fulham), £10m
Javier Hernandez (CD Guadalajara), £7m
Bebe (Vitoria de Guimaraes), £7.4m

Total Spend: £24.4m

Outs:
Danny Simpson (Newcastle United), £500k
Ben Foster (Birmingham City), £6m
Tom Heaton (Cardiff City), free
Zoran Tosic (CSKA Moscow), £8m
Ron-Robert Zieler (Hannover), free
Fabien Brandy (Notts County), free
Sam Hewson (Altrincham), free
David Gray (Preston North End), free
Craig Cathcart (Blackpool), £500k
Rodrigo Possebon (Santos), undisclosed

Total Received: £15m

Net Spend: £9.4m

2011

Ins:
Anders Lindegaard (Aalesunds FK), £3m
Phil Jones (Blackburn Rovers), £16.5m
Ashley Young (Aston Villa), £16m
David de Gea (Atletico Madrid), £18m

Total Spend: £53.5m

Outs:
James Chester (Hull City), £300k
Magnus Eikrem (Molde FK), undisclosed
Cameron Stewart (Hull City), £300k
Gary Neville (retired)
Corry Evans (Hull City), £500k
Joe Dudgeon (Hull City), £300k
Edwin van der Sar (retired)
Owen Hargreaves (Manchester City), free
Connor Devlin (released)
Oliver Gill (released)
Nick Ajose (Peterborough United), £300k
Wes Brown (Sunderland), £1m
John O'Shea (Sunderland), £5m
Gabriel Obertan (Newcastle United), £4.5m

Total Received: £12.2m

Net Spend: £41.3m

2012

Ins:
Frederic Veseli (Manchester City), undisclosed
Shinji Kagawa (Borussia Dortmund), £12m
Nick Powell (Crewe Alexandra), £4m

Total Spend so far: £16m

Outs:
Darron Gibson (Everton), £2m
Danny Drinkwater (Leicester City), £750k
Mame Biram Diouf (Hannover 96), £1.5m
Ravel Morrison (West Ham United), £650k
Matty James (Leicester City), £1m
Richie de Laet (Leicester City), £1m
Oliver Norwood (Huddersfield Town), undisclosed
Paul Pogba (Juventus), £300k training fee
Ji-sung Park (QPR) £2m

Total Received so far: £9.2m

Net Spend so far: £6.8m

Total net spend over 7 years: £80.45million

 

[JustAFan]

2005

Ins:
Edwin van der Sar (Fulham), £2m
Ji-Sung Park (PSV Eindhoven), £4m
Ben Foster (Stoke City), £1.5m

Total Spend: £7.5m

Outs:
Phil Neville (Everton), £3m
Kleberson (Besiktas), £2.5m
Roy Carroll (West Ham United), free
Roy Keane (Celtic), free

Total Received: £5.5m

Net Spend: £2m

2006

Ins:
Nemanja Vidic (Spartak Moscow), £7m
Patrice Evra (AS Monaco), £5.5m
Michael Carrick (Tottenham Hotspur), £18.6m
Tomasz Kuszczak (West Bromwich Albion), loan (part-exchange)

Total Spend: £31.1m

Outs:
Jami Puustinen (FC Honka), free
David Fox (Blackpool), free
Kenny Cooper (FC Dallas), free
Colin Heath (Chesterfield), free
Luke Steele (West Bromwich Albion), part-exchange
Paul McShane (West Bromwich Albion), part-exchange
Jonathan Spector (West Ham United), £500k
David Bellion (Nice), £1m
Quinton Fortune (Bolton Wanderers), free
Ruud van Nistelrooy (Real Madrid), £10.2m
Sylvan Ebanks-Blake (Plymouth Argyle), £200k
Liam Miller (Sunderland), free

Total Received: £11.9m

Net Spend: £19.2m

2007

Ins:
Henrik Larsson (Helsingborgs IF), loan
Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), £17m
Nani (Sporting Lisbon), £14m
Anderson (FC Porto), £17m
Tomasz Kuszczak (West Bromwich Albion), £2m
Carlos Tevez (loan), £5m

Total Spend: £55m

Outs:
David Jones (Derby County), £1m
Tim Howard (Everton), £3m
Kieran Richardson (Sunderland), £5m
Giuseppe Rossi (Villarreal), £6.7m
Alan Smith (Newcastle United), £6m
Gabriel Heinze (Real Madrid), £8m
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer (retired)

Total Received: £29.7m

Net Spend: £25.3m

2008

Ins:
Manucho (Petro Atletico), undisclosed
Rodrigo Possebon (Internacional), undisclosed
Phil Bardsley (Sunderland), £2m
Davide Petrucci (AS Roma), £200k
Fabio da Silva (Fluminense), £2.5m
Rafael da Silva (Fluminense), £2.5m
Carlos Tevez (loan), £5m
Dimitar Berbatov (Tottenham Hotspur), £30.75m

Total Spend: £42.95m

Outs:
Adam Eckersley (Port Vale), free
Ryan Shawcross (Stoke City), £1m
Phil Bardsley (Sunderland), £2m
Kieran Lee (Oldham Athletic), free
Gerard Pique (Barcelona), £5m
Chris Eagles (Burnley), £1.25m
Mikael Silvestre (Arsenal), £750k
Dong Fanhzhou (Dalian Shide), free
Louis Saha (Everton), nominal

Total Received: £10m

Net Spend: £32.95m

2009

Ins:
Zoran Tosic (Partizan Belgrade), £6m
Richie de Laet (Stoke City), undisclosed
Antonio Valencia (Wigan Athletic), £16m
Michael Owen (Newcastle United), free
Gabriel Obertan (Bordeaux), £3m
Mame Biram Diouf (Molde FK), £3.5m

Total Spend: £28.5m

Outs:
Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid), £80m
Lee Martin (Ispwich Town), £1m
Fraizer Campbell (Sunderland), £3.5m
Richard Eckersley (Burnley), £500k
Manucho (Real Valladolid), undisclosed

Total Received: £85m

Net Spend: -£56.5m

2010

Ins:
Marnick Vermijl (Standard Liege), undisclosed
Chris Smalling (Fulham), £10m
Javier Hernandez (CD Guadalajara), £7m
Bebe (Vitoria de Guimaraes), £7.4m

Total Spend: £24.4m

Outs:
Danny Simpson (Newcastle United), £500k
Ben Foster (Birmingham City), £6m
Tom Heaton (Cardiff City), free
Zoran Tosic (CSKA Moscow), £8m
Ron-Robert Zieler (Hannover), free
Fabien Brandy (Notts County), free
Sam Hewson (Altrincham), free
David Gray (Preston North End), free
Craig Cathcart (Blackpool), £500k
Rodrigo Possebon (Santos), undisclosed

Total Received: £15m

Net Spend: £9.4m

2011

Ins:
Anders Lindegaard (Aalesunds FK), £3m
Phil Jones (Blackburn Rovers), £16.5m
Ashley Young (Aston Villa), £16m
David de Gea (Atletico Madrid), £18m

Total Spend: £53.5m

Outs:
James Chester (Hull City), £300k
Magnus Eikrem (Molde FK), undisclosed
Cameron Stewart (Hull City), £300k
Gary Neville (retired)
Corry Evans (Hull City), £500k
Joe Dudgeon (Hull City), £300k
Edwin van der Sar (retired)
Owen Hargreaves (Manchester City), free
Connor Devlin (released)
Oliver Gill (released)
Nick Ajose (Peterborough United), £300k
Wes Brown (Sunderland), £1m
John O'Shea (Sunderland), £5m
Gabriel Obertan (Newcastle United), £4.5m

Total Received: £12.2m

Net Spend: £41.3m

2012

Ins:
Frederic Veseli (Manchester City), undisclosed
Shinji Kagawa (Borussia Dortmund), £12m
Nick Powell (Crewe Alexandra), £4m

Total Spend so far: £16m

Outs:
Darron Gibson (Everton), £2m
Danny Drinkwater (Leicester City), £750k
Mame Biram Diouf (Hannover 96), £1.5m
Ravel Morrison (West Ham United), £650k
Matty James (Leicester City), £1m
Richie de Laet (Leicester City), £1m
Oliver Norwood (Huddersfield Town), undisclosed
Paul Pogba (Juventus), £300k training fee
Ji-sung Park (QPR) £2m

Total Received so far: £9.2m

Net Spend so far: £6.8m

Total net spend over 7 years: £80.45million

And it is a net spend in those years that is skewed quite a bit by the incredible fee we received for Ronaldo.

 

[Denis' cuff]

And it is a net spend in those years that is skewed quite a bit by the incredible fee we received for Ronaldo.

What on earth is your point?

That we lost arguably the best player in the world and replaced him with Michael Owen who barely got a start? Brilliant. Way to go for the wealthiest club in the world.

Funds were stunted by the Glazers whilst they propped up their debts. Anyone believing Fergie's "value" stance as his own, rather than his employer's are in La La land.

Glazers looking ok right now, let's hope it continues.

 

[Oscie]

What on earth is your point?

That we lost arguably the best player in the world and replaced him with Michael Owen who barely got a start? Brilliant. Way to go for the wealthiest club in the world.

Funds were stunted by the Glazers whilst they propped up their debts. Anyone believing Fergie's "value" stance as his own, rather than his employer's are in La La land.

Glazers looking ok right now, let's hope it continues.

So Ferguson who spent years at odds, often publicly, with the United board, with Edwards, Kenyon, with the PLC, with referees with the FA and with every authority/management figure you could think of, suddenly in 2006 decided to bottle it and become a yes man and tow the line?

I think this is my biggest issue with the argument, it relies on us believing something about Alex Ferguson's character that has been proven demonstrably untrue throughout his entire career. The idea that he'd go from a man who'd attack the club publicly for its spending plans to someone who'd bend over and toss the Glazer family the lube all for the sake of being swooned by an American accent cannot be anything other than bullshit.

And it really pisses me off how people who make the argument try and gloss over the fact that they're fundamentally imposing a completely made up character on Ferguson, totally alien to the one we know him to have, as that's the only way they can continue to justify their narrative. Anyone who knows anything about Alex Ferguson will tell you that the idea that he was starved of funds and kept quiet about it so as to not to annoy his paymasters is something that's fanciful as well as disrespectful.

There's no legacy on which people won't shit in order to convince others they were right. So rather than "I was wrong", instead it's a series of completely unfounded, historically proven inaccurate, smears against people who've done more for the club than some feckwit buying a garishly coloured scarf.

 

[KristianMackle]

Woody came in and increased our commercial activities ten fold and that increased our revenue in a massive way. That also helped ease pressure on the Glazers.

Now get some deals done Woody!

And I don't mean with Tesco.

 

[Oscie]

Woody came in and increased our commercial activities ten fold and that increased our revenue in a massive way. That also helped ease pressure on the Glazers.

Now get some deals done Woody!

And I don't mean with Tesco.

Of course but increasing commercial revenues was the main reason why the Glazers took us over in the first place.

If you buy a business because you think it's not realising its potential in a certain area, you can't then be accused of lucking out when you buy said business and manage to help it realise potential in a certain area that it wasn't realising before.

 

[TheBiggest]

Reading @DanClancy twirling around in circles on this thread is keeping me entertained, I have to say. Funnier than any sitcom I can downlaod at the moment, that's for sure.


This guy genuinely thinks Ferguson didn't believe his final squad was ever good enough and The Glazers kept him from buying big-name players...even though Ferguson's last squad was the most successful squad in the entire history of our football club.

Some people are so gullible and lack so much logic. I guess Clancy believes it was the American Government that brought down the Twin Towers, yeah?