The Hidden Gems Thread

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
We tried to sign both Haaland and Bellingham when they were at those clubs, so what's your point?
It’s an obvious clear as day point that you’ve done nothing to dispel but be rude. Argued with the missus today? Someone cut you up in traffic?

Haaland at Salzburg was under the radar. Bellingham at Birmingham was under the radar. They were signed for just over 40m combined. If we sign both this Summer now they’re not under the radar, we’d be spending around 200m and huge wages. United don’t have a bottomless pit of money and it’s not like we’re only 1 or 2 players off winning the league. We need at least 3-5 signings and at least 2 years to develop. Incremental progress ala Klopp at Liverpool.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
I didn’t say they was good transfers but the strategy was correct. I mean you literally mention Haaland at Salzburg. That’s a Martial strategy signing. Di Maria is the equivalent of buying Harry Kane. Top player would be an amazing striker for us. But not what we need right now.

There’s nothing wrong with what I said. It’s feasible for the type of club we are. What isn’t feasible is spending a summer buying hidden gems with the aim of this is what Leicester do and produce players like Mahrez and Fofana. But guess what those signings don’t fit in here and become successful because it’s a bigger pressure cooker here where your job as a manager requires results.

I mean we could go down the Arsenal route but even then it’s hardly a blueprint for success is it. As soon as it flourish your better players get nicked by a Man City because you are no longer considered as the end goal for a players trying to achieve the best.

In sort I’m trying to explain to you with have a position in English football and as long as we continue to have this position we can’t just revert to falling 4 levels just so we can start signing hidden gems.
I absolutely never said we should buy only hidden gems. But we can’t just buy the obvious names all the time.

Martial strategy signing? Yeah so what’s the difference between buying Haaland at Salzburg and Charles De Ketelaere at Brugge now? Why should we wait til he tears it up at Leicester and expect they won’t charge the moon?

In our current situation with all the cracks in the squad and the unpreventable churn this Summer, we need to sign at least 1 or 2 players under the radar who can provide good value. I’ve provided suggestions above. Don’t like them? Your prerogative but maybe provide me a better alternative rather than insulting me.
 

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
I absolutely never said we should buy only hidden gems. But we can’t just buy the obvious names all the time.

Martial strategy signing? Yeah so what’s the difference between buying Haaland at Salzburg and Charles De Ketelaere at Brugge now? Why should we wait til he tears it up at Leicester and expect they won’t charge the moon?

In our current situation with all the cracks in the squad and the unpreventable churn this Summer, we need to sign at least 1 or 2 players under the radar who can provide good value. I’ve provided suggestions above. Don’t like them? Your prerogative but maybe provide me a better alternative rather than insulting me.
Come on man. It’s quite simple. We can’t just buy a guy who could be considered a good singing for Maybe us or Aston Villa. Haaland is wanted by every top in Europe. We tried to get him early but he decided continue his development at a lower level club.

This only works if they are the quality of Haaland or a Martial. It doesn’t work with this bloke Brugge who nobody knows of. I mean which top club is after him?
 

L1nk

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
5,122
Come on man. It’s quite simple. We can’t just buy a guy who could be considered a good singing for Maybe us or Aston Villa. Haaland is wanted by every top in Europe. We tried to get him early but he decided continue his development at a lower level club.

This only works if they are the quality of Haaland or a Martial. It doesn’t work with this bloke Brugge who nobody knows of. I mean which top club is after him?
AC Milan, Napoli and Leicester apparently. You just sound a little elitist and only want us to sign players for hundreds of millions after other big clubs have got them early on, wasting our money. You seem to be under the impression we are Manchester United who won the league and CL in a consistant basis over the last few years, we aren't that big anymore in terms of results, can we still get the big players? Sure, but that's not exactly served us well in recent years has it? I personally think this was a great thread..
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
Come on man. It’s quite simple. We can’t just buy a guy who could be considered a good singing for Maybe us or Aston Villa. Haaland is wanted by every top in Europe. We tried to get him early but he decided continue his development at a lower level club.

This only works if they are the quality of Haaland or a Martial. It doesn’t work with this bloke Brugge who nobody knows of. I mean which top club is after him?
So because the papers haven’t told you that top clubs aren’t in for CDK but did for Haaland at Salzburg you’re assuming he’s not a player who could thrive for a top club? He’s played excellently in the CL too. Just like Haaland. Also, I’ve heard from lots of Belgian fans who think he’s absolutely class and destined for the top. But of course they must be wrong because you haven’t seen his name in The Sun.

Oh and for all the FM jibes from the other guy, it’s actually the biggest scouting database in the world. It isn’t actually too bad. But I’m not going off FM.

I definitely take your point that hidden gems can’t be all we sign. You made an extremely valid argument about the pressure cooker environment at United. That’s very true. But you can’t assume all of the above will suddenly wilt at United. Just like you can’t always assume someone with big club experience (i.e. Falcao, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger etc) will succeed.
 

horsechoker

The Caf's Ezza.
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
53,871
Location
The stable
Ole was the diamond in dirt that ain't been found.

The underground King but he ain't been crowned.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
AC Milan, Napoli and Leicester apparently. You just sound a little elitist and only want us to sign players for hundreds of millions after other big clubs have got them early on, wasting our money. You seem to be under the impression we are Manchester United who won the league and CL in a consistant basis over the last few years, we aren't that big anymore in terms of results, can we still get the big players? Sure, but that's not exactly served us well in recent years has it? I personally think this was a great thread..
Thank you, exactly. How dare we sign someone from Rennes or Salzburg when we should be signing them from rich English clubs who’ll charge a fortune.
 

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
AC Milan, Napoli and Leicester apparently. You just sound a little elitist and only want us to sign players for hundreds of millions after other big clubs have got them early on, wasting our money. You seem to be under the impression we are Manchester United who won the league and CL in a consistant basis over the last few years, we aren't that big anymore in terms of results, can we still get the big players? Sure, but that's not exactly served us well in recent years has it? I personally think this was a great thread..
So much wrong with this post. Where to begin.

The fact that people believe we can swoop up bargains is funny. I might be an elitist but so does the majority of Europe which is why we have to spend £80m for a £60m defender and £30m for a £10m hidden gem. I mean even Pelisstri cost £12m.

I don’t know why you guys constantly bang on about trying to be something that we aren’t. Yes maybe another 40 years of not winning nothing and a few relegation scares we might be in a position like Leicester where we have to find hidden gems to help boost us up the table whilst also banging on a bigger club coming for them so we can reinvests in our squad and build new training complexes.

At the end of the day we cannot have it both ways. We cannot bang on about standards which are only a problem for ‘elistist’ but then want to move in the transfer market like a cash stripped mid table club. :lol:

It’s hilarious. Then you also have the cheek to say do we not learn? Learn what? I mean we could not spend £80m on Rice. But guess what the foreign import that is at the same level as Rice now cost £60m because Manchester United wants him. It’s a lose lose. The aim is to find players that fit a managers style and system. Not the price tag.
 

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
Thank you, exactly. How dare we sign someone from Rennes or Salzburg when we should be signing them from rich English clubs who’ll charge a fortune.
Oh be quiet. Bernardo Silva cost £50m from the French league. The bright spark from Salzburg is going to Dortmund for a reported £35m. Stop acting like big clubs are out here wheeling and dealing all because our club got burnt by a couple English duds. I bet you didn’t have the same energy when we was throwing £30m at Ferdinand and Rooney. We should of got Phillip Senderous and Milan Baros on the cheap.
 

Welbeckham

Full Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,553
Great thread and then there are bunch of people here who would rather just see us wasting hundreds of millions on the Maguires and AWBs instead.

The problem with the likes of Amad and Pellistri was mostly that they were really raw. You are not usually supposed to pay tens of millions for players who haven’t played a game in European leagues. Especially when you don’t have a clear plan for them.

Instead we should definitely try to sign the likes of Kamara and De Kaetelare before they go to Leicester or Wolves. That way we could ensure that even our flops would have some resale value while they are still young. And the wages wouldn’t be sky high if we didn’t pay 50M+ for every single player.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
Oh be quiet. Bernardo Silva cost £50m from the French league. The bright spark from Salzburg is going to Dortmund for a reported £35m. Stop acting like big clubs are out here wheeling and dealing all because our club got burnt by a couple English duds. I bet you didn’t have the same energy when we was throwing £30m at Ferdinand and Rooney. We should of got Phillip Senderous and Milan Baros on the cheap.
There’s a little thing called context. When we signed Rooney and Ferdinand we weren’t 9 years off our last PL title win with huge holes all over the squad. Signing one player for 100m is like putting a Ferrari wing mirror on a Ford Ka.

Just who exactly are you suggesting we sign then? I’ve seen a lot of you tearing ideas down but very little of you proposing anything concrete and specific to our current needs.
 

NoPace

Full Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
9,584
Camara was very good against Bayern but he looked like a C- or D+ athlete, small and slow. Great passes to start counters which is rare from a 6, but it looked like he might struggle playing a higher line in the Prem.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
And even if you don’t think we can upgrade on Shaw, AWB, Maguire, Fred, McTominay right now (which is a valid argument), we still have the problem of needing to sign at least 1 probably 2 strikers and a DM. Hard to do if going down the PL or elite club proven route.
 

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
There’s a little thing called context. When we signed Rooney and Ferdinand we weren’t 9 years off our last PL title win with huge holes all over the squad. Signing one player for 100m is like putting a Ferrari wing mirror on a Ford Ka.

Just who exactly are you suggesting we sign then? I’ve seen a lot of you tearing ideas down but very little of you proposing anything concrete and specific to our current needs.
The problem with your original post is the fact your context doesn’t make sense. You say we are 9 years off which I assume suggests you want to get to the top. You don’t get back to the top with the way you are suggesting. What it actually does is take us further away.

I’m all for smart business but the context is. Smart business is signing signing Kamara on a free instead of Rice. It free’s up funds and he’s of a level where acquiring him on a free is good business. Is he better than Rice. Probably not to be honest with you. But partnered next to an aggressive 8 be that Tielemans or Neves. Is probably better than getting Rice. However the reality of it is, Rice next to Bellingham is better than Kamara next to Neves and that is probably why they are our top targets. Our issue is we will only buy 1 in a summer window.

That is context.
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,809
I thought there was already a Football Manager 2022 thread in the generals?
Love how these threads always get these kind of reactions from people who have never heard of half th players. I did a transfer summer one simlar about 4 years ago Upemacano, Sancho, Bissaka, Giouri, Alan Guimaraes were a few of the names andmost had never heard of them bar Sancho so slated it just in this way. We have signed two of them and Upemacano is now at Bayern, Giouri on lots peoples strikers lists now he has started to establish himself....yet any quality youngsters break through and people bemoan the fact we werent in for them. I msut confess not knowing a lot of the OPs lists, the ones I do, I like
 

CraftySoAndSo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Messages
1,054
I like the idea of this thread, should we be looking to sign every player mentioned in this thread no. But on top of a United fan i'm also a football fan and i love reading about and watching players before they hit the "big time". The irony of people turning their nose up at the players being mentioned is that Julian Alvarez is a good example of the type of player being mentioned in this thread. I bet bar South Americans no one including me had watched a single match of his, only Youtube highlights and there were lots saying we should sign him and now he's signed for City.

It's funny how because someone might watch or know about an obscure league or player they're accused of taking names from Football Manager or have no life. In my opinion you can't really judge a young talent until you've watched 3-5 matches of theirs, has op done that necessarily, no, but it's clear he's at least watched some. And as he himself said he's also sought more info online from those who are more informed about that player than he is so he's not just "wonderkid" scouting on Football Manager.

Anyway i may as well i put a name forward as well, Kamaldeen Sulemana from Rennes. 20 year old winger and joined Rennes in the summer from Nordjaelland, i've watched him a few times and really like him and think he'll be hot property in the next couple of years.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
The problem with your original post is the fact your context doesn’t make sense. You say we are 9 years off which I assume suggests you want to get to the top. You don’t get back to the top with the way you are suggesting. What it actually does is take us further away.

I’m all for smart business but the context is. Smart business is signing signing Kamara on a free instead of Rice. It free’s up funds and he’s of a level where acquiring him on a free is good business. Is he better than Rice. Probably not to be honest with you. But partnered next to an aggressive 8 be that Tielemans or Neves. Is probably better than getting Rice. However the reality of it is, Rice next to Bellingham is better than Kamara next to Neves and that is probably why they are our top targets. Our issue is we will only buy 1 in a summer window.

That is context.
I didn't say we're 9 years off getting back to the top. We last won the PL title in 2013. That's 9 years ago. I think, with the right signings, we're a minimum of 2 years off. I'd take that, assuming we built sensibly and strategically.

I agree on signing Kamara rather than Rice. I rate Rice very very highly. If we only needed a DM, I'd happily spend £100m on him (though I'd probably prefer Tchouameni at £60m). But we don't. We'll need at least one striker. We cannot afford to just sign expensive, obvious targets.

In an ideal world, Rice and Bellingham would be a superb midfield duo for the next 10 years plus at United. They would only be gettable over 2 years. However, signing these two players would mean they'd be pretty much all we'd be signing. I just don't think we're in the position where we can only sign 1 or 2 players a Summer right now.

I still don't understand what you'd do this Summer. Given that we likely need 2 strikers (replacing Mason and Cavani, never mind Ronaldo) AND a DM. That's not even mentioning other positions. I'd be all for someone like Ten Hag maximising the ability of those in our squad but for anyone that thinks ETH is someone merely content with what he's got, you really don't know the guy. He totally overhauled the Utrecht squad and has certainly not been afraid to wheel and deal (and sell) at Ajax; not even just through necessity of big clubs swooping in the cases of De Ligt and De Jong.
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,809
Not many hidden gems in my list as a lot are breaking through now already or beig nlinked with us, but some of the youngsters I do liek the look of....

Vandervoordt - GK is hardly a priority this summer, but the though Henderson may want out and he could replace him with this guy for half the price potentially looks like good business. Whenever I have seen him he just has that aura of owning his area and beign safe like a coupel of our past keepers. Really safe hands holdig on to the ball, tall and long reach and good with his feet too. Could be a crackign keeper in the next few uears

Nuno Mendes - Ok, he has gone to PSG now, literally only had to see him play once and was almsot gutted Shaw was havign a good season last year...especially now Shaw is playing poorly. We were heavily linked and he look like he could become a world class left back. Funny PSG struggled at full back now they have him and Hakimi

Kamara - SHould have signed him in the summer without doubt, should have signed him in January....makes me worry we arent actually keen on him like reported. Being free, surely one of the most prudent buys we could make this summer

Livoromento - Again establishing himself. The few times I caught Chelsea youth games, he stood out as the best player on the park. With Reece James going, can understand he wasnt needed....but oh my, we should be in for him, still a teenager and offers the attackign full back threat we are after, probablyfar cheaper than Lamptey and far more potential and sutability for me. If we are not feeling Laird is the man, have to be in for him

Ugochukwu - Follwed Rennessince Camavinga broke through who was a dram signing for me. Not the same quality, but this guy is jsut 17, an absolute unit who seems to have intelligence and a great engine as well.Too early to tell but he looks like he could become another big sale for them in a couple of years

Majer - Dont quite hold the same enthisiasm as the OP for Majer....but I do like him and funny he mentioned Modric as i can see Majer as being a good player at somewhere like Spurs

Caqueret - Gettign mentioned more and more and i cant believe nobody has come in for him already. Not the hefty fees of some of the bigger names but he seems technically good, intelligent, box to box and very good going forward. Dont like comparign players....but he reminds me a bit of Frank Lampard in the making.

Sulemana - Someone we got linked with heavily in the summer. Hardly a hidden gem as he was such a high fee for Ligue 1....but oh my god we missed a trick. Left sided which means probably not happenign now, but if I was to sign any wide player this summer....it would be him. He can play both sides apparently but hardly seen him on the right, let Sancho go back there or Elanga or aMAD....JUST GET THIS GUY. One of the big reasons Id happily sell Rashford. He has new number 7, superstar in the making all over him. Just the kind of bums of seats player we crave, someone that can run with pace, dribble, go past players, create, a rocket of a shot

Giouri - Always been a fan, wanted us to sign him eyars ago before he got injured at Lyon after seeing him in a youth tournament for France. Don thtink he is the type of striker we will go for, but the technique on the ball, finishign ability, intelligence. £40m odd I think and hope as always liekd him he can be a big player somewhere....sadly I see Liverpool linked though
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
Love how these threads always get these kind of reactions from people who have never heard of half th players. I did a transfer summer one simlar about 4 years ago Upemacano, Sancho, Bissaka, Giouri, Alan Guimaraes were a few of the names andmost had never heard of them bar Sancho so slated it just in this way. We have signed two of them and Upemacano is now at Bayern, Giouri on lots peoples strikers lists now he has started to establish himself....yet any quality youngsters break through and people bemoan the fact we werent in for them. I msut confess not knowing a lot of the OPs lists, the ones I do, I like
Yep, it's an easy go to argument. Not saying there aren't FM types here but usually they say stuff like 'let's sign Kane, Osimhen, Milinkovic-Savic, Donnarumma, Romagnoli, Fabio Paim, Pah Modou Kah and Kennedy Bakircioglu this Summer. We could sell our unwanted players for £500m and buy this lot for a tenner'.

I think I remember your thread(s) back then. You've been vindicated for sure with the names mentioned. In 5 years, people may look back on my thread and laugh. I admitted that in the original post. I haven't just plucked names out the air but I'm also not a scout and football can be unpredictable. But the wider point of targeting non obvious players I fully stand by. Also, the main intention of this post was actually to draw out the expertise of others who watch non English leagues often. We've had some of those here (thank you to those who posted) but unfortunately the thread has kinda gotten derailed by an argumentative couple of people.

Another purpose of this post is to have people with good footballing eyes have these guys on their radar so they can maybe give their views. I find that sometimes it happens when we're linked to certain players in the press - suddenly people become aware of those players, track down their stats and watch clips/games of them. It's not a bad thing to learn of other players around the world. Even if they're ultimately not good enough or not for us. If you do happen to check the ones you don't know out, I'd be really curious for your view on them as I remember you having a good eye for players.

I like the idea of this thread, should we be looking to sign every player mentioned in this thread no. But on top of a United fan i'm also a football fan and i love reading about and watching players before they hit the "big time". The irony of people turning their nose up at the players being mentioned is that Julian Alvarez is a good example of the type of player being mentioned in this thread. I bet bar South Americans no one including me had watched a single match of his, only Youtube highlights and there were lots saying we should sign him and now he's signed for City.

It's funny how because someone might watch or know about an obscure league or player they're accused of taking names from Football Manager or have no life. In my opinion you can't really judge a young talent until you've watched 3-5 matches of theirs, has op done that necessarily, no, but it's clear he's at least watched some. And as he himself said he's also sought more info online from those who are more informed about that player than he is so he's not just "wonderkid" scouting on Football Manager.

Anyway i may as well i put a name forward as well, Kamaldeen Sulemana from Rennes. 20 year old winger and joined Rennes in the summer from Nordjaelland, i've watched him a few times and really like him and think he'll be hot property in the next couple of years.
Yeah, I have the feeling Alvarez will be amazing for City. He has this battling quality and dynamism that I think will translate far better to the PL than most previous Argentine wonderkid strikers I've seen. I understand why we ultimately hesitated on going for him due to timing but can't help thinking we'll regret it. Also, we couldn't really have anticipated the Greenwood situation (unless one believes conspiracy theories about the club actually knowing what Greenwood did behind closed doors.... which I personally doubt).

Totally right on the insults. It's become a meme now. Just laziness.

Love Sulemana! I think he's more nailed on than Doku, though both are very very promising. I'd happily take him, though maybe his best position is actually on the left where we're well stocked. Thanks for your post.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
@jesperjaap - Any idea why Lyon sold Gouiri? He looks brilliant. They normally don't waste the chance to sell a talented player for huge money.
 

Roboc7

Full Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
6,753
Hidden gems, bargains, players whose contracts are running down, we have no choice but to start signing more of these type of players.

We need a lot of players to get back to challenging not just one or two. Factor in that we’re losing a lot of players for free and players we’d like to sell are so massively over paid that they are hard to get rid of and sold off cheap and the finances just don’t stack up to keep spending so much on individuals.

Why can’t we buy someone like Raphinha for less than £20m 18 months ago rather than for £60m this summer. We’re not even close to being title contenders, we ‘re going to have to build a team, this idea we are just 1 or 2 players away leads to stupid decisions and just ensures we keep repeating the same cycle. There isn’t a quick fix so massively over spending on players like Maguire is just a waste of time and money.
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,809
@jesperjaap - Any idea why Lyon sold Gouiri? He looks brilliant. They normally don't waste the chance to sell a talented player for huge money.
He was the next big thing, played a few games and got a huge injury. When he came back he couldnt establuish himself in the team. I cant remember who but there were godo strikers blockign his path. He took a few months to get runnign again at Nice from what I saw the frist few months I thought maybe he is one of those prolific yougnsters that cant step up....so glad to see him doign well for a while now...but god if he goes to Liverpool, meh. I think Firmono has been really good at Liverpool, such an intelligent player though he has struggled a bit this season. I think Giouri offers that.....but is much better finishing too
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,809
Yep, it's an easy go to argument. Not saying there aren't FM types here but usually they say stuff like 'let's sign Kane, Osimhen, Milinkovic-Savic, Donnarumma, Romagnoli, Fabio Paim, Pah Modou Kah and Kennedy Bakircioglu this Summer. We could sell our unwanted players for £500m and buy this lot for a tenner'.

I think I remember your thread(s) back then. You've been vindicated for sure with the names mentioned. In 5 years, people may look back on my thread and laugh. I admitted that in the original post. I haven't just plucked names out the air but I'm also not a scout and football can be unpredictable. But the wider point of targeting non obvious players I fully stand by. Also, the main intention of this post was actually to draw out the expertise of others who watch non English leagues often. We've had some of those here (thank you to those who posted) but unfortunately the thread has kinda gotten derailed by an argumentative couple of people.

Another purpose of this post is to have people with good footballing eyes have these guys on their radar so they can maybe give their views. I find that sometimes it happens when we're linked to certain players in the press - suddenly people become aware of those players, track down their stats and watch clips/games of them. It's not a bad thing to learn of other players around the world. Even if they're ultimately not good enough or not for us. If you do happen to check the ones you don't know out, I'd be really curious for your view on them as I remember you having a good eye for players.



Yeah, I have the feeling Alvarez will be amazing for City. He has this battling quality and dynamism that I think will translate far better to the PL than most previous Argentine wonderkid strikers I've seen. I understand why we ultimately hesitated on going for him due to timing but can't help thinking we'll regret it. Also, we couldn't really have anticipated the Greenwood situation (unless one believes conspiracy theories about the club actually knowing what Greenwood did behind closed doors.... which I personally doubt).

Totally right on the insults. It's become a meme now. Just laziness.

Love Sulemana! I think he's more nailed on than Doku, though both are very very promising. I'd happily take him, though maybe his best position is actually on the left where we're well stocked. Thanks for your post.
Yes I understand your point. There is always a "grass in greener" with players barely played or only been viewed via youtube or jumping on the bandwagon. And of coursse the football manager type transfer windows are unrealistic....though I think like that a bit haha, I do think we genuinely need a big clear out and seveal sigings can be achieved if we buy some top young players of good value, which do still exist outside our own league anyway...well I wasnt vindicated on Alan Guimaraes, I was sure he would be a world star. Only other two I was so sure of in the past that were under the radar were Pastore (bad move though ruined him for me) and Quintero who never really progressed as he looked stellar.

PS I really like Doku too but I absolutely lvoe Sulemana, left or not we should be in there in my opinion, he is just too talented to miss out on, though if they smashed ther etransfer record for £20m to sign him.....he wont be one of those value players, so not happenign for various reasons I feel sadly
 

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
I didn't say we're 9 years off getting back to the top. We last won the PL title in 2013. That's 9 years ago. I think, with the right signings, we're a minimum of 2 years off. I'd take that, assuming we built sensibly and strategically.

I agree on signing Kamara rather than Rice. I rate Rice very very highly. If we only needed a DM, I'd happily spend £100m on him (though I'd probably prefer Tchouameni at £60m). But we don't. We'll need at least one striker. We cannot afford to just sign expensive, obvious targets.

In an ideal world, Rice and Bellingham would be a superb midfield duo for the next 10 years plus at United. They would only be gettable over 2 years. However, signing these two players would mean they'd be pretty much all we'd be signing. I just don't think we're in the position where we can only sign 1 or 2 players a Summer right now.

I still don't understand what you'd do this Summer. Given that we likely need 2 strikers (replacing Mason and Cavani, never mind Ronaldo) AND a DM. That's not even mentioning other positions. I'd be all for someone like Ten Hag maximising the ability of those in our squad but for anyone that thinks ETH is someone merely content with what he's got, you really don't know the guy. He totally overhauled the Utrecht squad and has certainly not been afraid to wheel and deal (and sell) at Ajax; not even just through necessity of big clubs swooping in the cases of De Ligt and De Jong.
Me personally.

Antony £40m
Tchouameni £60m
Kamara Free
Tielemans £35m
Isak £40m
Lampety £30m

6 in which is unrealistic but with the right amount of exists. It’s what’s required.

Strikers at the minute are abit poor for the level we need to be. Would take a risk with Martial for an extra year and swap an Isak for Nkunku for instance.

But there’s options. What’s yours.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
He was the next big thing, played a few games and got a huge injury. When he came back he couldnt establuish himself in the team. I cant remember who but there were godo strikers blockign his path. He took a few months to get runnign again at Nice from what I saw the frist few months I thought maybe he is one of those prolific yougnsters that cant step up....so glad to see him doign well for a while now...but god if he goes to Liverpool, meh. I think Firmono has been really good at Liverpool, such an intelligent player though he has struggled a bit this season. I think Giouri offers that.....but is much better finishing too
Thanks. That makes sense. Glad he's been able to fulfil at least a lot of his potential after the injury then. I really like the look of him. I've seen him more on the left than centrally but I've heard he's great in both positions.

Me personally.

Antony £40m
Tchouameni £60m
Kamara Free
Tielemans £35m
Isak £40m
Lampety £30m

6 in which is unrealistic but with the right amount of exists. It’s what’s required.

Strikers at the minute are abit poor for the level we need to be. Would take a risk with Martial for an extra year and swap an Isak for Nkunku for instance.

But there’s options. What’s yours.
I really like your suggestions but you've probably underestimated Antony, Isak and Lamptey's prices (looking at 50/60m, 70m was quoted to Arsenal in January for Isak and Lamptey will be at least 50m as Brighton don't need to sell and they'll use AWB as a benchmark). Isak's also quite overrated IMHO but the tall striker type of player often develops later on.

I'd probably go Kamara (free), De Ketelaere (30m), Schlotterbeck (25m), Sosa (20m) and Brereton Diaz (25m). Ideally Bellingham the next Summer when we hopefully have far less to rebuild. I just think he's a can't miss talent in 2023. Tielemans is a smart suggestion. I just worry because I've seen him have some stinkers where he just looks not bothered which is a characteristic I see too much of in our squad.

@SparkedIntoLife been enjoying seeing Arsen Zakharyan when I can, keeping an eye on Armenian talent (too bad he never would’ve declare for us). Game is patterned a lot like David Silva, very interested to see how he develops further, silky technique, not really pacy, just has great awareness. Youngest Russian international since Akinfeev.
Yes! Heard about him recently. Some Russian fans were saying they think he's their biggest talent since Arshavin but with a better mentality. Very interesting talent and is doing big stuff at a young age. Good shout.
 

Mainoldo

New Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
22,965
I really like your suggestions but you've probably underestimated Antony, Isak and Lamptey's prices (looking at 50/60m, 70m was quoted to Arsenal in January for Isak and Lamptey will be at least 50m as Brighton don't need to sell and they'll use AWB as a benchmark). Isak's also quite overrated IMHO but the tall striker type of player often develops later on.

I'd probably go Kamara (free), De Ketelaere (30m), Schlotterbeck (25m), Sosa (20m) and Brereton Diaz (25m). Ideally Bellingham the next Summer when we hopefully have far less to rebuild. I just think he's a can't miss talent in 2023. Tielemans is a smart suggestion. I just worry because I've seen him have some stinkers where he just looks not bothered which is a characteristic I see too much of in our
Yeah I agree. But I hope we learn from our negation mistakes. As these players are easily replaceable with players of the same quality which can be got at market level. For instance Johnathan David would cost you £40m (But again don’t think he’s a top club standard)

If your looking at a player from the Championship it has to be Cavalho on a free. Tielemans I agree but I believe if you can tape into his talent you have a great player. Maybe a top quality coach can do that.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
Yeah I agree. But I hope we learn from our negation mistakes. As these players are easily replaceable with players of the same quality which can be got at market level. For instance Johnathan David would cost you £40m (But again don’t think he’s a top club standard)

If your looking at a player from the Championship it has to be Cavalho on a free. Tielemans I agree but I believe if you can tape into his talent you have a great player. Maybe a top quality coach can do that.
From what I've seen and heard, I think Jonathan David could be top club standard (though I don't think he'll only be 40m but may well be wrong). Carvalho, I'd argue, is a hidden gem - careful there ;). I'm not sure of his ceiling but he's looking superb in the Championship and is very mature in his play style. I agree that Tielemans can be coached to being a huge asset for us and the price, considering his contract situation, is very tempting.

See, I much prefer engaging with you on this level and we're probably not as far off in terms of thinking than we first thought.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,892
Gvardiol hasn't improved at all this season in my opinion,
I heard he's name mentioned last season as one to watch and an almost ready made defender, alas I feel this season he has plateaued somewhat.
Still young however so plenty of time.

I feel you could have mentioned Anthony, Zemura and Kilkenny from Bournemouth, all brilliant players around 22 years old who will be making the step up to bigger things shortly I'd imagine.
 

Niemans

New Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2021
Messages
1,641
Supports
Barcelona, Celta de Vigo
Isak has a clause of €90M. For less than 75M they do not sell him.

Pablo Torre
Alberto Moleiro
Carlos Álvarez
There are not many videos because they are young.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
Gvardiol hasn't improved at all this season in my opinion,
I heard he's name mentioned last season as one to watch and an almost ready made defender, alas I feel this season he has plateaued somewhat.
Still young however so plenty of time.

I feel you could have mentioned Anthony, Zemura and Kilkenny from Bournemouth, all brilliant players around 22 years old who will be making the step up to bigger things shortly I'd imagine.
Fair enough. From what I’ve seen and heard it’s the opposite but you may well be right.

I’ve heard of Zemura and Kilkenny but not Anthony I don’t think. Zemura’s done really well at LB. Killenny has played less but has more competition in CM. What position does Anthony play? Bournemouth have a great squad this season. Parker makes strange decisions at times but I generally think he’s an interesting manager.
 

Champ

Refuses to acknowledge existence of Ukraine
Joined
Jun 17, 2017
Messages
9,892
Fair enough. From what I’ve seen and heard it’s the opposite but you may well be right.

I’ve heard of Zemura and Kilkenny but not Anthony I don’t think. Zemura’s done really well at LB. Killenny has played less but has more competition in CM. What position does Anthony play? Bournemouth have a great squad this season. Parker makes strange decisions at times but I generally think he’s an interesting manager.
Anthony plays mainly on the left wing, can also play on the right.
Reminds me alot of an early Ashley Young.
Bournemouth have a great set up, some talented youth coming through and Parker isn't afraid to use them.

As for Gvardiol, that's just my opinion really, I've only seen sporadic games on TV so I don't have any stats or detailed analysis to really back it up, just really going by what I've seen! So my opinion could indeed be just as wrong!! :lol:
 

jesperjaap

Full Member
Joined
Jun 23, 2014
Messages
5,809
Thanks. That makes sense. Glad he's been able to fulfil at least a lot of his potential after the injury then. I really like the look of him. I've seen him more on the left than centrally but I've heard he's great in both positions.



I really like your suggestions but you've probably underestimated Antony, Isak and Lamptey's prices (looking at 50/60m, 70m was quoted to Arsenal in January for Isak and Lamptey will be at least 50m as Brighton don't need to sell and they'll use AWB as a benchmark). Isak's also quite overrated IMHO but the tall striker type of player often develops later on.

I'd probably go Kamara (free), De Ketelaere (30m), Schlotterbeck (25m), Sosa (20m) and Brereton Diaz (25m). Ideally Bellingham the next Summer when we hopefully have far less to rebuild. I just think he's a can't miss talent in 2023. Tielemans is a smart suggestion. I just worry because I've seen him have some stinkers where he just looks not bothered which is a characteristic I see too much of in our squad.



Yes! Heard about him recently. Some Russian fans were saying they think he's their biggest talent since Arshavin but with a better mentality. Very interesting talent and is doing big stuff at a young age. Good shout.
Yes, he does drift out left a lot. At youth level and Lyon though he was played through the middle and for France youth, he wa exceptional finding space and finishing in the box. Thats one thing not seen to its full elvel at Nice I feel and why I really want him along with the technical ability. my dream would be him up front with SUlemana and Sancho either side. All interchangable, quick, technically excellent. Not the most physical but I just think there could be so much creatvity there.

Personally though I think he is really good, Tielmans I just dont see fitting into our side or being the right signing. If we are after that type of player, I think Caqueret would be a good option. The one Leicester player if he comes back strong again would be Fofana. Maguire did well there but never looke dworld class, always thought the Turkish guy was pretty average and just physical, Fofana though was brilliant, he would be worth a hefty fee in my opinion
 

We Need Another Rebuild

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
106
I don't understand people kicking off with looking for up and coming players who provide more value, yes they might not be good enough but aren't gonna cost the earth and blast through our budget, we have the parasites called the Glazers not some rich nation bankrolling us.

If you could bring in a mix of ready made and youth it keeps your squad refreshed and youthful not the squad we have got with a prime example 2 ST at 35 & 37.

If we had a window of something like the below:

Tchouameni £60 million
Kamara Free
Schlotterbeck £30 million - 1 year left on deal
Antony £40 million
De Ketelaere £30 million

You have two starters in Tchouameni & Antony, a back up who could compete in Kamara & Two highly rated prospects in Schlotterbeck & De Ketelaere.

If the two unknowns don't work out they can be moved on for something similar, we bought James for £15 million & sold for £30 million,

Why not take a risk?
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,547
Supports
Aston Villa
Really liked the look of Isaiah Jones last night playing for Boro at RWB.

Think they got him from non league and he was very comfortable v Son so can see a few prem teams having a look if they don't come up.
 

troylocker

Evens winner of 'Odds or Evens 2023/2024'
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
2,653
I absolutely never said we should buy only hidden gems. But we can’t just buy the obvious names all the time.

Martial strategy signing? Yeah so what’s the difference between buying Haaland at Salzburg and Charles De Ketelaere at Brugge now? Why should we wait til he tears it up at Leicester and expect they won’t charge the moon?

In our current situation with all the cracks in the squad and the unpreventable churn this Summer, we need to sign at least 1 or 2 players under the radar who can provide good value. I’ve provided suggestions above. Don’t like them? Your prerogative but maybe provide me a better alternative rather than insulting me.
First of all, I agree with you that we need to buy some young players before they explode into the international scene in addition to already proven quality players.

Haaland was no under the radar signing though, the only thing that made him cheap for Dortmund was his 20M release clause and Us, Juve and City also had offers on the table back then. I had already followed the young lad closely for 18 months before that move and knew he was the real deal, he had already been breaking records for a while and it was not a risky signing at all. The only catch with signing him was that he wanted a "low" release clause in his contract. De Ketelaere would be a risky signing where it is very uncertain that the player will ever reach the desired level. His showings from CL, EL and NT are leaving big questionmarks about his ceiling. The 2 are not comparable at all. One scored every 50 minutes in Austria and every 40 minutes in the CL, while the other scores every 300 (200 this season) minutes in Belgium and every 500 minutes in CL. Even though they are very different type of players, the difference in level of talent and ceiling is astronomical. For a player with little risk involved one should obviously go for them as early in their career as possible, but when it comes to players from a tier or three below that, it will be a lot of hit and miss that isn't good for the club or the player.

I never understood why we bought Pillestri and Diallo for instance, as they were both high risk signings with literally 0 showings on their CVs prior to us blowing 40M combined on them, and I can't see how any of them will ever become good enough for a challenging top side.

If we buy players under the radar it must be players where their ceiling looks to be very high, and with the intention to gel them into the first team from the start.
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
First of all, I agree with you that we need to buy some young players before they explode into the international scene in addition to already proven quality players.

Haaland was no under the radar signing though, the only thing that made him cheap for Dortmund was his 20M release clause and Us, Juve and City also had offers on the table back then. I had already followed the young lad closely for 18 months before that move and knew he was the real deal, he had already been breaking records for a while and it was not a risky signing at all. The only catch with signing him was that he wanted a "low" release clause in his contract. De Ketelaere would be a risky signing where it is very uncertain that the player will ever reach the desired level. His showings from CL, EL and NT are leaving big questionmarks about his ceiling. The 2 are not comparable at all. One scored every 50 minutes in Austria and every 40 minutes in the CL, while the other scores every 300 (200 this season) minutes in Belgium and every 500 minutes in CL. Even though they are very different type of players, the difference in level of talent and ceiling is astronomical. For a player with little risk involved one should obviously go for them as early in their career as possible, but when it comes to players from a tier or three below that, it will be a lot of hit and miss that isn't good for the club or the player.

I never understood why we bought Pillestri and Diallo for instance, as they were both high risk signings with literally 0 showings on their CVs prior to us blowing 40M combined on them, and I can't see how any of them will ever become good enough for a challenging top side.

If we buy players under the radar it must be players where their ceiling looks to be very high, and with the intention to gel them into the first team from the start.
I appreciate all your points. You’re right that Haaland was more of a sure thing than CDK is currently. De Ketelaere, as you rightly say, is a different profile of player. He was previously a midfielder and still fills in on the wing or as an AM. I’d guess he was always planned to be a striker but this has really only been a regular thing the last year or so.

Even when he is more established as a central striker, I don’t see him hitting the sort of numbers of a Haaland. He’s a Firmino/Havertz type as I said. His technical ability is superb, he’s extremely calm and clever and, particularly as he grows into his tall frame, his hold up play could be top drawer.

Maybe we wouldn’t necessarily get the best of him unless we played another striker or had Rashford in form (or buy a similar type on the right). Just as Firmino wouldn’t be as effective without Salah and Mane.

I have higher expectations of Amad than you but I agree that Pellistri was a waste.

Do you have any hidden gem types in mind that you’d be more confident in?
 

SparkedIntoLife

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
1,167
I don't understand people kicking off with looking for up and coming players who provide more value, yes they might not be good enough but aren't gonna cost the earth and blast through our budget, we have the parasites called the Glazers not some rich nation bankrolling us.

If you could bring in a mix of ready made and youth it keeps your squad refreshed and youthful not the squad we have got with a prime example 2 ST at 35 & 37.

If we had a window of something like the below:

Tchouameni £60 million
Kamara Free
Schlotterbeck £30 million - 1 year left on deal
Antony £40 million
De Ketelaere £30 million

You have two starters in Tchouameni & Antony, a back up who could compete in Kamara & Two highly rated prospects in Schlotterbeck & De Ketelaere.

If the two unknowns don't work out they can be moved on for something similar, we bought James for £15 million & sold for £30 million,

Why not take a risk?
This transfer window would be excellent I think. I see Antony costing a bit more but all those signings are feasible, especially with some outgoings.

Oh and FootballHQ’s suggestion makes sense. Jones has been really decent this year. I have really high hopes for Laird (hoping all the injuries are just growing pains) and Dalot has improved but we should certainly be keeping an eye on the likes of Jones, Livramento, Lamptey, Celik and co.
 

We Need Another Rebuild

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
106
This transfer window would be excellent I think. I see Antony costing a bit more but all those signings are feasible, especially with some outgoings.

Oh and FootballHQ’s suggestion makes sense. Jones has been really decent this year. I have really high hopes for Laird (hoping all the injuries are just growing pains) and Dalot has improved but we should certainly be keeping an eye on the likes of Jones, Livramento, Lamptey, Celik and co.
I agree that Antony might be closer to £60 million.

I agree we should give Laird a chance to impress preseason, their is no doubting his talent the main issue is he is made of glass.

I don't see RB or LB as important as the other areas, apart from RW we need to improve our spine as we are non-existent through the centre.

We can offload:

Pogba Free
Lingard Free
Mata Free
Bailly £10 million
Jones £5 million
Matic £10 million
Henderson £25 million
Cavani Free
Martial £25 million
Williams £10 million

That would bring in roughly £85 million give or take value, but more importantly it will clear majority of the wage bill.

I didn't include Ronaldo as nobody actually knows what happening.

If you offload the above and bring in the 5 I said above with maybe a Tielemans in midfield for £30 million you have a net spend of roughly £125 million.

You have removed the deadwood and streamlined the squad creating opportunities for academy lads.
 

Lash

Full Member
Joined
May 3, 2012
Messages
12,861
Location
Buckinghamshire
Supports
Millwall, Saint-Etienne
No where near United level, but I like Han-Noah Massengo at Bristol City and imagine he'd go somewhere like Brighton next.

He's got great attributes for the CM role, tenacious as well.
 

L1nk

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2017
Messages
5,122
I agree that Antony might be closer to £60 million.

I agree we should give Laird a chance to impress preseason, their is no doubting his talent the main issue is he is made of glass.

I don't see RB or LB as important as the other areas, apart from RW we need to improve our spine as we are non-existent through the centre.

We can offload:

Pogba Free
Lingard Free
Mata Free
Bailly £10 million
Jones £5 million
Matic £10 million
Henderson £25 million
Cavani Free
Martial £25 million
Williams £10 million

That would bring in roughly £85 million give or take value, but more importantly it will clear majority of the wage bill.

I didn't include Ronaldo as nobody actually knows what happening.

If you offload the above and bring in the 5 I said above with maybe a Tielemans in midfield for £30 million you have a net spend of roughly £125 million.

You have removed the deadwood and streamlined the squad creating opportunities for academy lads.
Not sure about your valuations (but who knows!) but agree with the general point of outgoings freeing up, more importantly, a massive massive chunk of the wage bill, especially when you consider we can probably sign repplacements for all them, of a better and playable standard, and still be paying vastly less on that wagebill.

Ideal summer (or something close to);

Gone
Pogba
Lingard
Mata
Bailly
Jones
Matic
Henderson
Cavani
Martial
Williams

Academy (minimum)
Hannibal
Garner
Elanga
Amad?
Pellestri?
Laird

Signings (in order of importance as we won't sign so many players imo)
DM - Tchouameni
Striker - Jonathan David
CM - Tielemans?
RW/LW/CAM - Antony
CB - No idea (though seemingly from posts above Schlotterbeck would be a good option)
FB - Also no idea