The hokey cokey doesn't matter

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didz

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I don't like making threads because I generally don't want to put myself in the middle, but I felt I should probably have a go, particularly since it's been made clear that fighting for balance in ordinary discourse is an invitation to the gangplank.

Ten Hag - in, out, shake it all about, it really doesn't matter. This is an unprecedented situation for the club. There's a very good chance that what has happened before wont happen in our lifetime.

What matters, and what we can have some semblance of control over, is how we act towards each other. We all want the club to do well but many of us disagree on how the change should happen. So what are we? On the basis of evidence gathered from trying to talk to people on this site, it's a collection of disappointed people, none of whom have all the facts. And I'm not talking about mystical INEOS data there, I'm talking about how me or you might have missed an important article or something last month. If everyone knows that it's impossible to have every fact available at their fingertips, then we don't have to assume things about each other. And we don't have to assume a position that needs polemic defense either side.

I had an 'argument' with @Regulus Arcturus Black in another thread about whether Tuchel should be our next manager. I think he would agree that i made some good points, and I know for damn sure he certainly did. I would hope that we learnt a little from each other; basically the fecking whole point of two people talking in the first place. This was possible because we were respectful to one another.

But on the whole, this forum is painfully sparse of that. I've seen 4 different people call for bans on fellow forum members just for having views different to their own. For fecks sake, can we not just discuss things like adults rather than open up one more corner of the internet to fear?
 
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Herschel Krustofsky

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didz said:
I don't like making threads because I generally don't want to put myself in the middle, but I felt I should probably have a go, particularly since it's been made clear that fighting for balance in ordinary discourse is an invitation to the gangplank.

Ten Hag - in, out, shake it all about, it really doesn't matter. This is an unprecedented situation for the club. There's a very good chance that what has happened before wont happen in our lifetime.

What matters, and what we can have some semblance of control over, is how we act towards each other. We all want the club to do well but many of us disagree on how the change should happen. So what are we? On the basis of evidence gathered from trying to talk to people on this site, it's a collection of disappointed people, none of whom have all the facts. And I'm not talking about mystical INEOS data there, I'm talking about how me or you might have missed an important article or something last month. If everyone knows that it's impossible to have every fact available at their fingertips, then we don't have to assume things about each other. And we don't have to assume a position that needs polemic defense either side.

I had an 'argument' with @Regulus Arcturus Black in another thread about whether Tuchel should be our next manager. I think he would agree that i made some good points, and I know for damn sure he certainly did. I would hope that we learnt a little from each other; basically the fecking whole point of two people talking in the first place. This was possible because we were respectful to one another.

But on the whole, this forum is painfully sparse of that. I've seen 4 different people call for bans on fellow forum members just for having views different to their own. For fecks sake, can we not just discuss things like adults rather than open up one more corner of the internet to fear?
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Good post Didz, a bit more respect for each other would go a long way. The majority of people on here are pulling for the same thing ultimately.

Have a good one.
 

UpWithRivers

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I must admit I was the worst at this. Totally addicted to the hockey pokey. But then I turned myself around.
 

trevor newnham

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good point , well made, didz. Unfortunately, like in society as a whole, people tend to shoot from the hip first. Everyone has a point of view, and sometimes those people you might fundamentally agree with, make a valid point that you might not have thought of, or have discountenanced that point because of their previous posts or the opening sentence in their post makes you ignore the rest of their post.
 

Mart1974

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For our American and rst of the world readers, this is the hokey pokey..
 

Ole'sgunnarwin

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You put your Tuchel in, your Ten Hag out, you overspend on players then we try to ship em out
 

Bertie Wooster

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didz said:
I don't like making threads because I generally don't want to put myself in the middle, but I felt I should probably have a go, particularly since it's been made clear that fighting for balance in ordinary discourse is an invitation to the gangplank.

Ten Hag - in, out, shake it all about, it really doesn't matter. This is an unprecedented situation for the club. There's a very good chance that what has happened before wont happen in our lifetime.

What matters, and what we can have some semblance of control over, is how we act towards each other. We all want the club to do well but many of us disagree on how the change should happen. So what are we? On the basis of evidence gathered from trying to talk to people on this site, it's a collection of disappointed people, none of whom have all the facts. And I'm not talking about mystical INEOS data there, I'm talking about how me or you might have missed an important article or something last month. If everyone knows that it's impossible to have every fact available at their fingertips, then we don't have to assume things about each other. And we don't have to assume a position that needs polemic defense either side.

I had an 'argument' with @Regulus Arcturus Black in another thread about whether Tuchel should be our next manager. I think he would agree that i made some good points, and I know for damn sure he certainly did. I would hope that we learnt a little from each other; basically the fecking whole point of two people talking in the first place. This was possible because we were respectful to one another.

But on the whole, this forum is painfully sparse of that. I've seen 4 different people call for bans on fellow forum members just for having views different to their own. For fecks sake, can we not just discuss things like adults rather than open up one more corner of the internet to fear?
Click to expand...
Good post.

I tend to stay on the outside of most threads, just dipping my toe into them every so often. Mainly, due to the fact that there's very little room for my usual middle ground views - I can see some pros and cons of each side, but most are so adamantly for one extreme or another and so aggressive about any post they take to be supporting the opposite extreme.

Also, very few seem to change any of their views, and so the threads often just seem to be the same arguments on repeat over and over again. So a quick scan of it is enough to get a feel of the general views, and after that I'm not absolutely desperate to try and spend ages convincing X and Y into changing their mind and thinking like I do - (a) because it's unlikely to happen; and (b) because I'm aware that I might well be wrong in the long run anyway. These are often just gut feelings and predictions, so however much each poster is convinced they're in the right, time might well prove otherwise.

So I tend to use the threads about the first team just as a gauge of the general mixed views amongst the fans. While seeing the Academy threads as a chance to learn more about the upcoming players from a small number of posters who seem much more informed about the different age groups.
 

wolvored

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You have to take some views on here with a pinch of salt. An hour or two after a bad/good win/loss when so and so is either brilliant or shit. Some on here are probably 12 years old or haven’t got two brain cells to rub together and the defenders of an impossible to defend cause. They have nailed their colours to that mast and haven’t got the humility to agree they were wrong and back down. Instead they double down.
in a nutshell everyone has their quirks and a forum shouldn’t be everyone in agreement, but even if you don’t agree with an opinion, you shouldn’t take it personally and start rowing personally.
 

didz

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Bertie Wooster said:
Good post.

I tend to stay on the outside of most threads, just dipping my toe into them every so often. Mainly, due to the fact that there's very little room for my usual middle ground views - I can see some pros and cons of each side, but most are so adamantly for one extreme or another and so aggressive about any post they take to be supporting the opposite extreme.

Also, very few seem to change any of their views, and so the threads often just seem to be the same arguments on repeat over and over again. So a quick scan of it is enough to get a feel of the general views, and after that I'm not absolutely desperate to try and spend ages convincing X and Y into changing their mind and thinking like I do - (a) because it's unlikely to happen; and (b) because I'm aware that I might well be wrong in the long run anyway. These are often just gut feelings and predictions, so however much each poster is convinced they're in the right, time might well prove otherwise.

So I tend to use the threads about the first team just as a gauge of the general mixed views amongst the fans. While seeing the Academy threads as a chance to learn more about the upcoming players from a small number of posters who seem much more informed about the different age groups.
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Thank you for this. I don't think I've ever seen you post, and I imagine it's because you're far better at avoiding wading into the sludge than I am.

Eloquent and able posters like yourself do not want to talk about football on a football forum because the loudest voice wins, and unfortunately the loudest voice has no nuance. We could discuss things, we could even dissect things. Instead we're disparaging to each other.
 

Green55

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I used to be addicted to the hokey-cokey. But I've turned myself around now - and that's what its all about.
 

didz

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wolvored said:
You have to take some views on here with a pinch of salt. An hour or two after a bad/good win/loss when so and so is either brilliant or shit. Some on here are probably 12 years old or haven’t got two brain cells to rub together and the defenders of an impossible to defend cause. They have nailed their colours to that mast and haven’t got the humility to agree they were wrong and back down. Instead they double down.
in a nutshell everyone has their quirks and a forum shouldn’t be everyone in agreement, but even if you don’t agree with an opinion, you shouldn’t take it personally and start rowing personally.
Click to expand...
The problem is that it's not just straight after a match. And it's not about the team at all.

From my experience, nobody hates a Manchester United fan more than a Manchester United fan. And so the act of being one on this forum opens you up to the kind of insults you'd maybe experience once or twice in your life in the real world.

But this is allowed by the site runners. This is acceptable. Even encouraged. They will even slap points against you for being the victim of cnutistry. This state of everyone hating each other is obviously what the likes of @Raoul want. Because otherwise they would do things differently.
 

BenitoSTARR

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didz said:
The problem is that it's not just straight after a match. And it's not about the team at all.

From my experience, nobody hates a Manchester United fan more than a Manchester United fan. And so the act of being one on this forum opens you up to the kind of insults you'd maybe experience once or twice in your life in the real world.

But this is allowed by the site runners. This is acceptable. Even encouraged. They will even slap points against you for being the victim of cnutistry. This state of everyone hating each other is obviously what the likes of @Raoul want. Because otherwise they would do things differently.
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Report the comments.

Most of the ones I report I can then see get a sanction at some point.

Dont be blaming mods unless you’ve been reporting.

Edit: I say this as someone who gets called all sorts on the FF.
 
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