The key to high pressing football is a high backline

[Skills]

Disclaimer fitness is important too

But not as important as minimising the gap between your forwards and backline. The reason for this is you need to keep your players close enough to the action to always be involved at stealing the ball. It takes huge balls to do this as a manager as you're giving up space in behind, and if it goes wrong you look like tits. But it's the risk/reward of this type of football.

The closest we've come to playing this kind of football is under LVG. However, our attack was impotent under him so it doesn't guarantee attacking football. Under Louis we'd regain the ball and recycle it back, because we didn't know how to cut through the opposition. And I think Van Gaal showed you dont exactly need 3 Kantes to play this type of football - he often had Carrick/Schweinsteiger and Fellaini in his midfield.

 

[redIndianDevil]

This is just basic stuff, one that our current manager couldn't identify during our Barcelona matches.

 

[Revaulx]

Indeed. And you don’t necessarily need Harry Maguire either. Though Daley Blind would come in handy.

Oh wait...

 

[matt10000]

The closest we've come to playing this kind of football is under LVG. However, our attack was impotent under him so it doesn't guarantee attacking football. Under Louis we'd regain the ball and recycle it back, because we didn't know how to cut through the opposition. And I think Van Gaal showed you dont exactly need 3 Kantes to play this type of football - he often had Carrick/Schweinsteiger and Fellaini in his midfield.

I agree with Skills and think that LVG was in the process of building something when we went and sacked him. The foundations were in place and we just needed to strengthen the attack and sign the right players to allow LVG to take more risks going forward but before you can do that you have to build the foundations, get the players used to 'the philosophy' way of playing with discipline. We were impatient and wanted exciting, swashbuckling football right now with immediate league titles. If SAF retired when we had a decent squad that could have happened BUT SAF was a genius and managed to win the league with one of his weakest teams + RVP in his final year and so it was always going to be a rebuild.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Pressing isn't about being the fastest or the strongest, it's about timing and positioning.

Look at Bernardo Silva for example. He's not the most physically gifted but he's very smart. His high stamina allows him to carry on chasing when other players would give up.

The whole team has to move as a unit, when the striker starts to press the wingers have to cut off the passing lanes, the midfielders need to push up ready to catch a sloppy pass, and the defenders need to be ready to pounce on the long ball trying to escape.

A sweeper keeper like Edison is also very important, as it allows your defenders to push aggresively. Even if they get caught with a long ball over the top your keeper will shut it down first.

Anybody can learn to press like this, it just takes practice and belief.

 

[Skills]

Pressing isn't about being the fastest or the strongest, it's about timing and positioning.

Look at Bernardo Silva for example. He's not the most physically gifted but he's very smart. His high stamina allows him to carry on chasing when other players would give up.

The whole team has to move as a unit, when the striker starts to press the wingers have to cut off the passing lanes, the midfielders need to push up ready to catch a sloppy pass, and the defenders need to be ready to pounce on the long ball trying to escape.

A sweeper keeper like Edison is also very important, as it allows your defenders to push aggresively. Even if they get caught with a long ball over the top your keeper will shut it down first.

Anybody can learn to press like this, it just takes practice and belief.

This basically. It takes a lot of coaching to get right. And there are obvious downsides to it - it's why you occasionally see some of these teams take a bit of a battering.

Your entire team need to understand what space/ball you're happy to give up to make your press more effective. It's cutting off the right channels to make the other team less effective.

 

[André Dominguez]

This is quite a Lapalisse's thread.

 

[izec]

Pretty sure i have seen this topic somewhere last week.

The constant change of managers and thus philosophies is depressing. We were on the right track with van Gaal. He tried to modernise us and it took time. As seen, it is not an easy task with so many failing managers. Appointing Jose was the killer though, should have gone with a more progressive manager. Now with Ole, we have a rookie leading us.

 

[Skills]

This is quite a Lapalisse's thread.

Is it?

Then I wonder why the focus is constantly on things like we don't have the correct personnel for this type of football, or we don't have the correct fitness. They maybe be true, but if you're not even attempting to implement the basics - does that even matter?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

I'm not a big fan of a full press. For one, all it takes is for one person to be a little lazy or out of position and the whole thing breaks down. Secondly, as stated in the OP, it leaves a big hole between your defense and keeper, and finally, when you do win possession back, your opponent likely has everyone back in their own end still so there isn't much space between their back line and the keeper.

My personal option is a half press. Not sure if that's what it's called, but that's what I call it. This is where you allow your opponent possession in their half but once they get into your half you press hard to win the ball back. THis way you don't have a big gap between your defense and keeper and when you do win possession back, there is likely a big gap between your opponents defense and keeper that you can expose. Some may say this is what we were playing under Mourinho, but that's not true. Under Mourinho we didn't press. We just held our shape deep in our end and waited for the oppisition to give the ball away.

With that being said, key to this is your wingers. They are the outlet to spring counter attacks. I prefer a right footer on the right, and a left footer on the left. Their job isn't to look to score first, but rather to look to assist. When you are on your strong foot you typically dribble that way. So take them wide with pace and look for the cut back pass or cross. A perfect example of this is City. When Sane and Sterling are in the line up, they play on their natural wing and look to get to the byline. Just look at how many tap in goals they get from doing this...

 

[André Dominguez]

Is it?

Then I wonder why the focus is constantly on things like we don't have the correct personnel for this type of football, or we don't have the correct fitness. They maybe be true, but if you're not even attempting to implement the basics - does that even matter?

It requires a lot of work and we won't implement this from day to night. Pressing is still useless if our off-ball movement is not up to it, as I've seen a lot of teams actually doing the pressure part right just to blew the entire purpose of recovering the ball by having very poor playing patterns.

The theory behind it is not really that hard. Now making a training plan to make it work is a totally different thing.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

And then we should attack the space. Boss style.

 

[Dolf]

I agree with Skills and think that LVG was in the process of building something when we went and sacked him. The foundations were in place and we just needed to strengthen the attack and sign the right players to allow LVG to take more risks going forward but before you can do that you have to build the foundations, get the players used to 'the philosophy' way of playing with discipline. We were impatient and wanted exciting, swashbuckling football right now with immediate league titles. If SAF retired when we had a decent squad that could have happened BUT SAF was a genius and managed to win the league with one of his weakest teams + RVP in his final year and so it was always going to be a rebuild.

True but that was before everyone realised how shit we really are. Everyone still thought our problems could be fixed by just hiring a top manager and spending 200 mill on players. If LvG would come in now he would probably get more time and he would probably succeed.

 

[Skills]

It requires a lot of work and we won't implement this from day to night. Pressing is still useless if our off-ball movement is not up to it, as I've seen a lot of teams actually doing the pressure part right just to blew the entire purpose of recovering the ball by having very poor playing patterns.

The theory behind it is not really that hard. Now making a training plan to make it work is a totally different thing.

True. Any top team is going to end up with 55%+ of the possession against 80% of the team's they play. And it's what they do with the 55% of the time, that they will really be judged on.

 

[SiRed]

Disclaimer fitness is important too

But not as important as minimising the gap between your forwards and backline. The reason for this is you need to keep your players close enough to the action to always be involved at stealing the ball. It takes huge balls to do this as a manager as you're giving up space in behind, and if it goes wrong you look like tits. But it's the risk/reward of this type of football.

The closest we've come to playing this kind of football is under LVG. However, our attack was impotent under him so it doesn't guarantee attacking football. Under Louis we'd regain the ball and recycle it back, because we didn't know how to cut through the opposition. And I think Van Gaal showed you dont exactly need 3 Kantes to play this type of football - he often had Carrick/Schweinsteiger and Fellaini in his midfield.

Another good idea is that when in possession of the ball, we ATTACK THE SPACE

 

[NoLogo]

And then we should attack the space. Boss style.

It all went down hill when Anderson started attacking the cake instead of the space. RIP United.

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Another good idea is that when in possession of the ball, we ATTACK THE SPACE

Beat ya to it!!

 

[romufc]

A high press doesnt mean you press the right back at all times. What Ole needs to get right is teaching the players when to press high up the pitch and when to drop slightly then press.

All this work is done in the training ground. The distance between Our Striker and Last defender is a whole half, this gives teams so much space to play around our midfield. It is quite annoying to watch lingard, martial, pogba, rashford, mata defend they just let people run past them..

I have no issue with one of our wingers half dropping back however; that means when the possession is won back they have to be able to spring and attack.. everytime the ball gets played to young who launches one for Rashford to chase and it keeps coming back.

Alot of work needs to be done in the training ground to play as a team rather than individuals. Is Ole up to the task?

 

[SiRed]

Beat ya to it!!

.... so it is certainly a tactic to employ if 2 of us cite it

 

[finneh]

There's a few key facets of this style that we don't do. Fitness is obviously one, as is narrowing the gap as you mention to minimise the space your outfield players need to close down. Another hugely important facet is the entire team must commit to this style, not a few players (Herrera, Lingard, Rashford, Fred), whilst the rest (Lukaku, Martial, Matic, Pogba) don't. In fact anyone not committing to this style renders anyone attempting it completely pointless. It's an all or nothing situation.

This is why the managers who've been successful with this style have only done so whilst buying almost an entirely new starting XI. City built a full team in 18 months but it took Liverpool 3 years.

This is why our rebuild is so important. We'd get far further buying 7-8 new players who suit this style at £40-60m each over the next 3 transfer windows, whilst disposing of the aforementioned players who can't perform this way; rather than buying a couple of £100m players such as Sancho and trying some kind of hybrid style that doesn't work.

 

[Skills]

It might just be me, but I still don't think we do this. There's still too much of a gap between the forwards and the backline for the press to be effective. There's a lot of huff and puff (thanks to the improved fitness), and little organisation.

 

[kouroux]

High line requires fast CBs and ours just aren't

 

[Skills]

High line requires fast CBs and ours just aren't

It's a good job we spent 80m on Maguire then

 

[redIndianDevil]

High line requires fast CBs and ours just aren't

No playing a high line requires a lot of coaching and effective coaches to make the system effective, there is a reason why a select few PL play with high line or possession based football, it requires a different level of coaching, OGS can talk the big talk but he is not experienced enough to implement the system. You can buy all the best CBs in the world and we'd look just like we do with Maguire and Lindelof. I'm tired of talking about Liverpool but they don't find it difficult with complete buffoons like Matip and Lovren.

 

[redIndianDevil]

It might just be me, but I still don't think we do this. There's still too much of a gap between the forwards and the backline for the press to be effective. There's a lot of huff and puff (thanks to the improved fitness), and little organisation.

Our players are told to play possession based pressing football but it doesn't look like they are coached at all, that's why they look confused all the time.

 

[kouroux]

No playing a high line requires a lot of coaching and effective coaches to make the system effective, there is a reason why a select few PL play with high line or possession based football, it requires a different level of coaching, OGS can talk the big talk but he is not experienced enough to implement the system. You can buy all the best CBs in the world and we'd look just like we do with Maguire and Lindelof. I'm tired of talking about Liverpool but they don't find it difficult with complete buffoons like Matip and Lovren.

Coaching is important but you also need to key players for a certain setting. In addition to Virgil, they also have very fast full backs and Joe Gomez. It really helps. As clueless as they are, any combo of Liverpool CBs will be faster than Maguire/Lindelof. Pace isn't everything of course but it's important I think.

 

[Enigma_87]

High line requires fast CBs and ours just aren't

Not necessarily mate. Pique and Mascherano aren't the fastest CB's around yet they fit the theme quite nicely.

 

[kouroux]

Not necessarily mate. Pique and Mascherano aren't the fastest CB's around yet they fit the theme quite nicely.

You know what ? You're right, it's just easier for them because their team used to suffocate possessions and create danger constantly, they could do it much easier. When their midfield controls the ball so much, it's a big help, we just cannot replicate the same (technically they're also much better than our CBs)

 

[redIndianDevil]

Coaching is important but you also need to key players for a certain setting. In addition to Virgil, they also have very fast full backs and Joe Gomez. It really helps. As clueless as they are, any combo of Liverpool CBs will be faster than Maguire/Lindelof. Pace isn't everything of course but it's important I think.

Their fullbacks are the most attacking oriented I've seen in the league, even City's fullbacks don't venture that forward, we can buy both Robertson and TAA from them and we'd still look crap. Their fullbacks and wingers are allowed so much freedom because they as a team have been taught effective high pressing by one of the best coaches in the world, the pressing has been drilled into them even since Klopp took the job.

Also I don't think neither Matip nor van dijk are that pacy, but their system means that they don't have to deal with effective counter attacks, the moment Liverpool concede possession, they press so effectively that they outright win the ball back or force the opponents to make an inaccurate long pass or a hurried pass which will get easily mopped up by van Dijk and whoever is playing CB. We lack that system, our CBs are afraid to play a high line because we don't press as a team and get countered quite easily.

 

[Enigma_87]

You know what ? You're right, it's just easier for them because their team used to suffocate possessions and create danger constantly, they could do it much easier. When their midfield controls the ball so much, it's a big help, we just cannot replicate the same (technically they're also much better than our CBs)

Yup, they shore the space that the opposition has and take the time on the ball away from them.

Unfortunately for us it's quite hard to pull a high line because you need a very proactive defenders, midfielders and attackers. They have to work as a unit.

It's also drilled time and time again.

Both our CB's aren't bad on the ball and it might work, but dropping back when we take the lead is not the best idea when you have Lindelof/Maguire pairing, especially when Lindelof has weakness in the air and defending crosses.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

High line requires fast CBs and ours just aren't

Not really.

Barcelona did it with Puyol-Pique.

It's still a collective effort and too often our pressing isn't fully synchronized.

One player presses, but the next doesn't and it fails.

 

[kouroux]

Their fullbacks are the most attacking oriented I've seen in the league, even City's fullbacks don't venture that forward, we can buy both Robertson and TAA from them and we'd still look crap. Their fullbacks and wingers are allowed so much freedom because they as a team have been taught effective high pressing by one of the best coaches in the world, the pressing has been drilled into them even since Klopp took the job.

Also I don't think neither Matip nor van dijk are that pacy, but their system means that they don't have to deal with effective counter attacks, the moment Liverpool concede possession, they press so effectively that they outright win the ball back or force the opponents to make an inaccurate long pass or a hurried pass which will get easily mopped up by van Dijk and whoever is playing CB. We lack that system, our CBs are afraid to play a high line because we don't press as a team and get countered quite easily.

They do attack a lot but they also press and run non stop all game long. It helps them retrieve the ball fast, which prevents their entire defensive from retreating a few yards. Van Dijk is very fast, there is no doubt about it, that and the fact his positioning is spot on, it makes it easier for a high line.
Coaching is important, don't get me wrong, our players (midfielders included with Pogba who is bad at pressing) just don't help with that tactic

 

[kouroux]

Not really.

Barcelona did it with Puyol-Pique.

It's still a collective effort and too often our pressing isn't fully synchronized.

One player presses, but the next doesn't and it fails.

I know, I didn't detail it enough in that post. I tried to correct it afterwards

 

[Enigma_87]

Disclaimer fitness is important too

But not as important as minimising the gap between your forwards and backline. The reason for this is you need to keep your players close enough to the action to always be involved at stealing the ball. It takes huge balls to do this as a manager as you're giving up space in behind, and if it goes wrong you look like tits. But it's the risk/reward of this type of football.

The closest we've come to playing this kind of football is under LVG. However, our attack was impotent under him so it doesn't guarantee attacking football. Under Louis we'd regain the ball and recycle it back, because we didn't know how to cut through the opposition. And I think Van Gaal showed you dont exactly need 3 Kantes to play this type of football - he often had Carrick/Schweinsteiger and Fellaini in his midfield.

Yup this is right.

You need players that are positionally well aware and tactically very disciplined. They also must work as a unit so they can cut passing lanes and pressure opposition on the ball and don't give them passing options. They also need to be very careful when pressing not to commit a foul as it will expose the backline.

We also have to be very careful in possession and not to be prone to lose the ball too often.

We're currently the 3rd worst team conceding possession in the league out of 4 games:

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Yup this is right.

You need players that are positionally well aware and tactically very disciplined. They also must work as a unit so they can cut passing lanes and pressure opposition on the ball and don't give them passing options. They also need to be very careful when pressing not to commit a foul as it will expose the backline.

We also have to be very careful in possession and not to be prone to lose the ball too often.

We're currently the 3rd worst team conceding possession in the league out of 4 games:

Our structure in build up is still poor.

We haven't taken advantage of the new rule for goal kicks.

We're still poor at bypassing a press.

Just hope it gets better.

 

[Shobbster]

If LVG had prime Van Persie/Harry Kane perhaps we'd be a different Manchester United now. That man was up to something tactically. There were a lot of games drawn that simply required a prolific target man. I guess hindsight is 20/20.
Even with all our current problems if we had an Aguero we'd be guaranteed at least top 4.
Attempting to go through this season without a clear cut tactical objective and Martial/Greenwood/Marcus-Ronaldo is just insane.

 

[GloryHunter07]

It takes time to coach this sort of system, it certainly took Klopp a while at Liverpool.

 

[Skills]

It takes time to coach this sort of system, it certainly took Klopp a while at Liverpool.

Klopp had them playing the way he wanted, by the end of the season he took over. Just lacked the quality to get the results he's getting now (I'd argue they were a better pressing team in his first 3 seasons than they were last season), but they were a formidable pressing team not long after he took over.

 

[Sterling Archer]

It takes time to coach this sort of system, it certainly took Klopp a while at Liverpool.

LVG had us on that path. Our win at Juanfield was one of the most controlled matches of football I've seen us play there.

Hindsight and all that. What's clear is there are question marks on the ability of the current coaching staff. A full preseason and six months of football already under their belt there isn't much more patience left.

 

[Tom Cato]

LVG had us on that path. Our win at Juanfield was one of the most controlled matches of football I've seen us play there.

Hindsight and all that. What's clear is there are question marks on the ability of the current coaching staff. A full preseason and six months of football already under their belt there isn't much more patience left.

I'm plenty patient. We have definitely not gotten the results we deserved out of the last 3 matches.