The main criterion: Coaching a team to the level of Klopp and Pep

Bastian

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That to me automatically includes making a risky appointment. There is obviously no one out there who guarantees this as they are simply the best club managers in the game today, but there are managers who are progressive and proactive in how they want their teams playing. It's pointless to appoint someone who isn't, because that's the level we need to get to.

Whether it is ten Hag, it certainly requires someone with that kind of philosophy. And I'd much rather wait till next summer to appoint someone of that ilk than to see a big name come in now.

We appoint Pochettino and what? We become a more solid 3rd or 4th side, harder to play against, but still relying on individual brilliance in the final third? What's the point? I'd rather the club decide on a progressive vision and if the first appointment doesn't work, they make another in line with that vision. Throughout the players will develop as a better footballing side.
 

MrSingh2002

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Rangnick now and then Ten Hag in the summer.

I don't think we can do better than that.

The only other clear option was Conte but that's done now.

Imagine seeing a team with a actual way of playing. I'd be very interested to see what Rangnick would do with United but the elephant in the room is that Ronaldo's not about to truly press from the front, and I wouldn't want him using up too much energy doing it either.
 

BluesJr

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Agree completely. I’m not interested unless we can play at those high levels, going into games knowing we’ll have at least 50% possession, creating chances and overall having total confidence in the plan. Is it going to work out every time? Of course not, look at the Palace game at City the other week.

That doesn’t affect them because they know those are freak results and if they stick to the plan they’ll always get the result. I want that confidence in the plan.
 

RUCK4444

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Ten Hag is the man for the job.

His ceiling is much higher than Poch and plays a brand of football we have to transition to in order to compete imo. Yes there are more ways than one to skin a cat but we need a modern approach imo.

If he gets it right here (and if you look at his CL record he definitely can) he could stay as long as he likes and tick the long term appointment box the club (and a lot of the fans) prefer as well.
 

adexkola

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That to me automatically includes making a risky appointment. There is obviously no one out there who guarantees this as they are simply the best club managers in the game today, but there are managers who are progressive and proactive in how they want their teams playing. It's pointless to appoint someone who isn't, because that's the level we need to get to.

Whether it is ten Hag, it certainly requires someone with that kind of philosophy. And I'd much rather wait till next summer to appoint someone of that ilk than to see a big name come in now.

We appoint Pochettino and what? We become a more solid 3rd or 4th side, harder to play against, but still relying on individual brilliance in the final third? What's the point? I'd rather the club decide on a progressive vision and if the first appointment doesn't work, they make another in line with that vision. Throughout the players will develop as a better footballing side.
Agreed. Even if Pochettino won. My answer would remain the same.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.
 

Gandalf

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Rangnick now and then Ten Hag in the summer.

I don't think we can do better than that.

The only other clear option was Conte but that's done now.

Imagine seeing a team with a actual way of playing. I'd be very interested to see what Rangnick would do with United but the elephant in the room is that Ronaldo's not about to truly press from the front, and I wouldn't want him using up too much energy doing it either.
Except Rangnick and Ten Hag have completely different coaching philosophies, not to mention the fact that Rangnick is not going to walk out on a cushy 3 year contract for a few months as a lame duck manager keeping the seat warm for someone else.
 

adexkola

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Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.
Ok this is actually a good point. Because Tuchel looked similarly incapable of reining in the stars while he was at PSG.
 

Glorio

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It was always my opinion that Poch was a progressive coach - is that not the case anymore?
 

GMok

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Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.
Klopp is a significantly better manager than Pochettino. He has his flaws, but he is still better. His team play much more on the front foot.

Pochettino's teams are far more reactive. He is more similar to Mourinho in the sense of controlling the game than Klopp, let alone Guardiola.
 

CanadianUtd

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Rangnick now and then Ten Hag in the summer.

This. It’s basically Ten Hag or bust.

If we miss out on him, then it’s a given whoever else we bring won’t be able to reach that upper echelon of managerial wonders. Anybody else (maybe apart from Zidane who doesn’t look likely) falls short of that meaning so would United and thus the same story will keep repeating itself.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Klopp is a significantly better manager than Pochettino. He has his flaws, but he is still better. His team play much more on the front foot.

Pochettino's teams are far more reactive. He is more similar to Mourinho in the sense of controlling the game than Klopp, let alone Guardiola.
I’d go back to watching Spurs beating Klopp’s Liverpool 4-1 in 2017 if I were you before Liverpool spent all that money. The way Spurs played then was nothing like Mourinho. Pochettino’s Southampton were arguably the most high pressing team in PL history, they overwhelmed opponents on the front foot off the ball. Poch is a Bielsa disciple. Mourinho is meanwhile arguably the least pressing manager in modern football.
 

CanadianUtd

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He is, but he’s not ‘flavour of the month’ now so anyone that isn’t Dutch total football isn’t progressive enough.

Poch is yesterday’s news. He’s not as great as people suspected he could be whereas Ten Hag likely can and will be.

And Poch doesn’t seem like a long term solution so that’s a turn off in of itself. Why would anyone prefer a lesser manager who in all likelihood wouldn't last as long? I want United going for the best batch — Poch unfortunately is in the 2nd batch.
 

V.O.

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I’d go back to watching Spurs beating Klopp’s Liverpool 4-1 in 2017 if I were you before Liverpool spent all that money. The way Spurs played then was nothing like Mourinho. Pochettino’s Southampton were arguably the most high pressing team in PL history, they overwhelmed opponents on the front foot off the ball. Poch is a Bielsa disciple. Mourinho is meanwhile arguably the least pressing manager in modern football.
Ah yes, that famous match where he beat Klopp... let's just ignore the other 10 games they played against each other. :lol:
 

KeanoMagicHat

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He's not exactly known for his entertaining brand of football is he? On a scale of Mourinho to Guardiola, he's closer to Mourinho.
Spurs were top scorers in the league in 16/17 season with 86 goals, they were second top scorers in 15/16. On the ball it’s nothing particularly special, off the ball he is like Klopp, the pressing creates excitement and chances. Mourinho is nothing like that in terms of pressing.
 

Bastian

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It was always my opinion that Poch was a progressive coach - is that not the case anymore?
He was at Southampton, looked very promising. I wouldn't say the same about his stint at Spurs. Hard working, very pragmatic, but not very proactive and certainly not that easy on the eye. I can't speak about his previous managerial spells, but the Spurs stint is what he's most lauded for and it's not something I find remotely interesting. He obviously doesn't have the team at PSG to play that progressive type of football with those three stars needing to be accommodated, but I just keep going back to that Spurs side and think nah.

We need to stop comparing klopp and Pep. Klopp is vastly superior. Let’s start there.
They are both world class managers and it's more down to individual preference - Pep couldn't do what Klopp does and vice versa, but they are head and shoulders above the rest.
 

PepG

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The main criterion must be much more simple.. Do you want a proactive or reactive manager?? Pochettino for example is a reactive manager. It doesnt matter that he uses the high press like Bielsa.. his main intention on the field is reactionary.. everything depends on what will do the opponent, not your own team. Everybody is critisizing the players of PSG for their poor off the ball movements but this is on Poch entirely and down to his tactics...
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Poch is yesterday’s news. He’s not as great as people suspected he could be whereas Ten Hag likely can and will be.

And Poch doesn’t seem like a long term solution so that’s a turn off in of itself. Why would anyone prefer a lesser manager who in all likelihood wouldn't last as long? I want United going for the best batch — Poch unfortunately is in the 2nd batch.
That’s ridiculous. Yesterday’s news? He’s 49! Ten Hag is 51! How is yesterday’s news Tuchel going, who got sacked from PSG?

And why wouldn’t he be a good long term manager? He was at Spurs for 4 and a half seasons, that’s more than a lot of managers stay at clubs.
 

tjb

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He is, but he’s not ‘flavour of the month’ now so anyone that isn’t Dutch total football isn’t progressive enough.
I don't know where this Ten Haag love in started. He literally plays in a two team league.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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He was at Southampton, looked very promising. I wouldn't say the same about his stint at Spurs. Hard working, very pragmatic, but not very proactive and certainly not that easy on the eye. I can't speak about his previous managerial spells, but the Spurs stint is what he's most lauded for and it's not something I find remotely interesting. He obviously doesn't have the team at PSG to play that progressive type of football with those three stars needing to be accommodated, but I just keep going back to that Spurs side and think nah.
Poch was one of the only managers in the league that could compete with Klopp and Pep and then they both spent hundreds of millions and left him behind. Spurs spent nothing in two transfer windows at a key point in their development. You can’t judge the managers without factoring in that consideration.
 

CanadianUtd

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That’s ridiculous. Yesterday’s news? He’s 49! Ten Hag is 51! How is yesterday’s news Tuchel going, who got sacked from PSG?

And why wouldn’t he be a good long term manager? He was at Spurs for 4 and a half seasons, that’s more than a lot of managers stay at clubs.

Never mentioned anything about age as it’s irrelevant. It’s all about when big opportunities arise which Poch has had more of in comparison to Ten Hag in their careers. To which it is logical for people to deem Poch as a known commodity whereas Ten Hag is a not so yet known commodity with a higher ceiling who potentially(i say likely) will be better.

…and Poch more often than not loses against the top managers. I don’t want that at United, we’ll continue to not win with his track record. I really don’t want us settling for that!
 

sunama

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Eric Ten Hag will surpass them if he comes to utd.
The odds of him out coaching Klopp et all, are very low, as the standard is damn high.

I don't know where this Ten Haag love in started. He literally plays in a two team league.
Indeed.
I think people on this forum like him because he takes young players and turns them into very good players.
Remember, over the last 3 years, we have taken good players and turned into crap players, so fans desperately want a manager who prioritises improving existing players.
 

eire-red

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He was at Southampton, looked very promising. I wouldn't say the same about his stint at Spurs. Hard working, very pragmatic, but not very proactive and certainly not that easy on the eye. I can't speak about his previous managerial spells, but the Spurs stint is what he's most lauded for and it's not something I find remotely interesting. He obviously doesn't have the team at PSG to play that progressive type of football with those three stars needing to be accommodated, but I just keep going back to that Spurs side and think nah.



They are both world class managers and it's more down to individual preference - Pep couldn't do what Klopp does and vice versa, but they are head and shoulders above the rest.
I've seen this quoted a lot, but I find it hard to believe. I remember Kane, Son, Eriksen and Ali playing really good stuff, Spurs scoring a lot of goals and being generally solid throughout the squad. I'll admit, the football wasn't on the level of Guardiola, but I still remember Spurs as a good ball playing side?

I must be wrong here.. To be honest I'm not such a big advocate of Poch that I'm going to go back and watch replays of Spurs from 3 years ago, but I just don't remember Spurs under Poch as dull, or pragmatic. I think Spurs were a WC midfielder and a deeper squad away from being a real force under Poch, but it just fell apart with a lack of investment.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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I've seen this quoted a lot, but I find it hard to believe. I remember Kane, Son, Eriksen and Ali playing really good stuff, Spurs scoring a lot of goals and being generally solid throughout the squad. I'll admit, the football wasn't on the level of Guardiola, but I still remember Spurs as a good ball playing side?

I must be wrong here.. To be honest I'm not such a big advocate of Poch that I'm going to go back and watch replays of Spurs from 3 years ago, but I just don't remember Spurs under Poch as dull, or pragmatic. I think Spurs were a WC midfielder and a deeper squad away from being a real force under Poch, but it just fell apart with a lack of investment.
You’re right, it’s a weird narrative that caught on for whatever reason.
 

Idxomer

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Indeed.
I think people on this forum like him because he takes young players and turns them into very good players.
Remember, over the last 3 years, we have taken good players and turned into crap players, so fans desperately want a manager who prioritises improving existing players.
Not only young players, but he also takes good or average journeymen and fits them perfectly into his system.

It's basically about the style of football.
 

Stack

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Everything happens on the training pitch. Everything. Appoint the right manager but equally important is having the right coaching staff capable of creating and running training drills that effectively produce the type of play and tactics a manager wants.
The right coaching staff are crucial.
 

ivaldo

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This. It’s basically Ten Hag or bust.

If we miss out on him, then it’s a given whoever else we bring won’t be able to reach that upper echelon of managerial wonders. Anybody else (maybe apart from Zidane who doesn’t look likely) falls short of that meaning so would United and thus the same story will keep repeating itself.
So there's only one manager capable of getting us to that level? Ole was a certified genius last season then!
 

CanadianUtd

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I've seen this quoted a lot, but I find it hard to believe. I remember Kane, Son, Eriksen and Ali playing really good stuff, Spurs scoring a lot of goals and being generally solid throughout the squad. I'll admit, the football wasn't on the level of Guardiola, but I still remember Spurs as a good ball playing side?

I must be wrong here.. To be honest I'm not such a big advocate of Poch that I'm going to go back and watch replays of Spurs from 3 years ago, but I just don't remember Spurs under Poch as dull, or pragmatic. I think Spurs were a WC midfielder and a deeper squad away from being a real force under Poch, but it just fell apart with a lack of investment.
And that’s exactly it. We don’t want good, we want great and exceptional. I don’t prefer a known commodity that can’t stand toe-to-toe with the best managers (track record speaks for itself) as our primary target when there’s someone with a higher ability+ceiling out there.

…and the investment bit, that’s another thing that tips in favour of Ten Hag. Ajax have very limited funding in comparison to even a Tottenham. Ten Hag won’t fall short because of backing as he makes up for it with his intricate and complex style of play. In fact as I’m typing this, it’s another reason why I don’t want Poch over Ten Hag. I don’t want a manager who’ll fall short due to backing/funding. I want someone who’s system and on-pitch play won’t miss a beat regardless of which players are in or out — Ten Hag has a far superior record of showcasing that at Ajax with all of their top players having gone away in the previous few years.
 

tomaldinho1

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Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.
Yh agreed. PSG essentially play a 430 defensively and a 433 offensively, he basically has to deploy a triple pivot.

United currently only have one CF who isn’t going to press and he can play centrally/is good on the air so you’d think a good coach would build a press around them (I know coaches have system where the striker isn’t part of the press for example, they just need to split the CBs).
 

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So there's only one manager capable of getting us to that level? Ole was a certified genius last season then!
I can’t tell the future. What I can do is try to be as objective as possible.

And in doing so, to many others like myself, it’s a relatively easy conclusion that a certain managers (Ten Hag, Zidane) would likely have a better tenure than others (Poch).
 

Laurencio

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And that’s exactly it. We don’t want good, we want great and exceptional. I don’t prefer a known commodity that can’t stand toe-to-toe with the best managers (track record speaks for itself) as our primary target when there’s someone with a higher ability+ceiling out there.

…and the investment bit, that’s another thing that tips in favour of Ten Hag. Ajax have very limited funding in comparison to even a Tottenham. Ten Hag won’t fall short because of backing as he makes up for it with his intricate and complex style of play. In fact as I’m typing this, it’s another reason why I don’t want Poch over Ten Hag. I don’t want a manager who’ll fall short due to backing/funding. I want someone who’s system and on-pitch play won’t miss a beat regardless of which players are in or out — Ten Hag has a far superior record of showcasing that at Ajax with all of their top players having gone away in the previous few years.
This is by far the best argument as to why Ten Hag would be preferable. Well argued.

Not sure if Pochettino can't build a system that works - but can't argue against that Ten Hag has shown eminent ability to do just this.
 

CanadianUtd

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The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match.

I hope then he’s not aware of who United have upfront :nervous:


(bar Sancho, they run so little compared to the rest of the league it’s pathetic)