The main criterion: Coaching a team to the level of Klopp and Pep

Stacks

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By all accounts he wants nothing to do with the job and is waiting for the France gig, turning down all clubs in the meantime.

I agree he’s a great option but not for United if he doesn’t want to be here.
yeah thats fair enough. It wouldn't surprise me. we have bad luck with these elite guys. Pep "didn't get the translation" Klopp said no and Zidane probably wants to stay in France and will win the CL with PSG and be proclaimed the GOAT while we get a few 2nd place finishes with Brendan
 

Stacks

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Zidane won everything with a side that was one of the greatest in history.

Ronaldo in his prime, Bale in his prime, Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Marcelo, Benzema etc etc... it was almost harder to lose with a side like that!

Now don't get me wrong he's obviously done a great job putting it all together and keeping it working, but i'm not so sure he'd be able to replicate that at another club.

It will be interesting to see how he fares in the rest of his career.
when he arrived at Real they were in a mess and struggling. he left and they struggled. he came back and won again after they were struggling. Since he they haven't won again. Bale was unreliable. Many of those players were in their 30s which isn't considered prime age. We would be calling them old at United. if it was so hard to lose how comes no one else could do it? pep had better players with Barcelona and never dominated like this.
 

Bestietom

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People have very short memories about Pep and Klopp. Yes they were outstanding for a lot of their careers, but questions were being asked about Pep at Bayern when he was getting hammered in the CL and Klopp’s final season at Dortmund was much worse than Poch’s at Spurs. Pep to a lesser extent, but Klopp was not this sought after manger people think he was. He was even Liverpool’s second choice after Ancheloti at the time.

Every manager has a dip. Even Fergie was being question in 2003.
Fergie had 4 different teams in his time here. When we lost to City on goal difference in 2012 He said this won't happen again and brought in RvP.
We won the League by 11 points the next season. We need another Fergie here now, but WHO ??
 

RoyH1

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Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.
Agree. And this is why someone like Zidane who is a master at reigning in big egos might be the best bet for QSG
 

Glorio

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Take Ten Hag out of that structured Ajax ecosystem into our Disneyland and he's going to drop down a level. A bit like Messi without Barca and La Liga (Argentina/PSG). Poch, while perhaps not as 'exciting' these days (he was pretty much Ten Hag to the kneejerkers here 3-4 years ago), brings more certainty of being able to work with the dumbasses we have upstairs having done that with Levy for years. Also, just from a quick funny look test, our squad definitely looks a lot more adaptable to Poch's style than it will be to a Ten Hag 'total football' regime. Personally would not have qualms whichever we get, since both are like 10++ levels above Ole but geez, all the Ten Hag echo chambering is getting quite tiresome.
Honestly - the guy coaches at Ajax where all the players are coached in a very similar system from their youth, he has no massive egos to contend with and a very sound collaborative board/structure. They also have just one realistic rival in PSV.

I'm not a massive Poch fan, but if we went for him, I'd be very happy with that. He's walking the French league while managing the big egos up front and has qualified in a group with City and Leipzig with a game to spare. One of the games they won was a 2-0 against City by the way.

Let's be honest, aside the PSG front 3 and Veratti, the rest of the team isn't exactly bursting with quality. If you really did watch Southampton and Spurs, I can't understand how anyone could say Poch is a reactive coach. He's always been a progressive, proactive coach - he's known for that. Things only turned soar at Spurs after he made noises about wanting to leave. PSG as we know is a different beast, and is no real indicator of a coach's style. If Ten Hag went to PSG, he wouldn't turn them into a cohesive unit just like Tuchel couldn't.

I just hope whoever does come feels empowered enough to make tough calls against our biggest players if need be.
 

Glorio

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He's not exactly known for his entertaining brand of football is he? On a scale of Mourinho to Guardiola, he's closer to Mourinho.
This is an absolutely terrible and woefully incorrect take. It's a barefaced lie simply put.
Did you watch Spurs under Poch or even Southampton?? :houllier:

Do you remember pundits suggesting that Spurs had fallen off a cliff in his last season because players were knackered due to his high energy brand of football? (not too dissimilar to what they said about Pep at the start of last season btw)
 

sugar_kane

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The revisionism on Poch is really weird, although it doesn't surprise me since he's now edging closer to a move to United.

I've never bought into the cult of Poch, but always found his teams aggressive and could have sworn that he was always spoken of on these parts of a high press, high energy tactician.

Now he's just Mourinho lite? What?

By all accounts he's hardly set the world alight at PSG, so maybe he is declining as a force, but let's not rewrite history eh?
 

ArjenIsM3

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This is an absolutely terrible and woefully incorrect take. It's a barefaced lie simply put.
Did you watch Spurs under Poch or even Southampton?? :houllier:

Do you remember pundits suggesting that Spurs had fallen off a cliff in his last season because players were knackered due to his high energy brand of football? (not too dissimilar to what they said about Pep at the start of last season btw)
:lol: Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's "woefully incorrect" or a "barefaced lie" even. High energy press yeah, that's the difference between him and Mourinho. If only there was more to his game than that. In possession his teams don't know what to do. It'd be more of the same. Relying on individual brilliance.
 

Glorio

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5 out of 5 wins for Ajax in CL is really impressive.
Yeah! :eek: Especially when you consider their budget is not the biggest. I take issue to the blatant attempts to downplay Poch's merits, but this is an incredibly brilliant achievement by Ten Hag - really setting the bar.
 

ayushreddevil9

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The revisionism on Poch is really weird, although it doesn't surprise me since he's now edging closer to a move to United.

I've never bought into the cult of Poch, but always found his teams aggressive and could have sworn that he was always spoken of on these parts of a high press, high energy tactician.

Now he's just Mourinho lite? What?

By all accounts he's hardly set the world alight at PSG, so maybe he is declining as a force, but let's not rewrite history eh?
Agreed
 

Glorio

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:lol: Just because you don't agree doesn't mean it's "woefully incorrect" or a "barefaced lie" even. High energy press yeah, that's the difference between him and Mourinho. If only there was more to his game than that. In possession his teams don't know what to do. It'd be more of the same. Relying on individual brilliance.
Wow ... Just making this up as you go huh? So in your honest opinion, you saw peak Spurs and Southampton not knowing what to do with the ball, or relying on individual brilliance? Keep digging. :)
 

Slooj

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Poch is yesterday’s news. He’s not as great as people suspected he could be whereas Ten Hag likely can and will be.

And Poch doesn’t seem like a long term solution so that’s a turn off in of itself. Why would anyone prefer a lesser manager who in all likelihood wouldn't last as long? I want United going for the best batch — Poch unfortunately is in the 2nd batch.
"Batch"?

Are we placing an order for cricket bats for the team?
 

MUFC OK

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Eric Ten Hag will surpass them if he comes to utd.
This. I think we should make room for VDS too. I'd back that combination to take us back to winning titles and challenging for the CL within a couple of years.
 

passtheball

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Under Ole, we struggled to beat the lesser teams and for that we don't need the absolute elite managers out there (unless they become easily available).

As for the head to heads with the top 4, United have shown they can beat anyone playing pragmatic, counter-attacking football, and that can still be our style in one-off games.

I think most people are overthinking this and underestimating our team. A half-decent coach (any of the suggested names currently) will get us competing for the biggest trophies because you don't play City and Liverpool every week.
 

ArjenIsM3

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Wow ... Just making this up as you go huh? So in your honest opinion, you saw peak Spurs and Southampton not knowing what to do with the ball, or relying on individual brilliance? Keep digging. :)
You're really saying Poch is closer to Mourinho football than Pep?

You need a lie down.
Yeah, sure they've had games where they played well but most games I've seen they were relying on individuel brilliance in possession, much like us under Mourinho and Ole. Just because he utilizes a high energy press doesn't make him anything like Guardiola. And his high energy press combined with his lack of rotation is actually one of his pitfalls because it can easily burn teams out which we've seen happen with him as well. Honestly I don't understand why there's such a huge Poch fanclub on here. He might solidify top 4 for us but he's not going to take us past City, Liverpool or Chelsea. Is that what we're aiming for? To become the new Arsenal?
 

Ikon

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I hope then he’s not aware of who United have upfront :nervous:
(bar Sancho, they run so little compared to the rest of the league it’s pathetic)
In the case of Greenwood, Rashford & Martial, if those young players are 'lazy' in closing down, I would have to wonder about what they have been taught whilst in the first team squad at United.
The way I see it, either they are not being told to close down or press, or they are being told, but choose to ignore it.
Which ever way I look at that, it comes back to the manager & coaches, for either not developing those players, or not reprimanding them when they fail to follow instructions.
 

AndySmith1990

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Under Ole, we struggled to beat the lesser teams and for that we don't need the absolute elite managers out there (unless they become easily available).

As for the head to heads with the top 4, United have shown they can beat anyone playing pragmatic, counter-attacking football, and that can still be our style in one-off games.

I think most people are overthinking this and underestimating our team. A half-decent coach (any of the suggested names currently) will get us competing for the biggest trophies because you don't play City and Liverpool every week.
What's so impressive about City and Liverpool currently is how consistently they win, and how convincingly they do it. They look completely understoppable at times. It's all well and good saying a decent coach would have us beating the weaker teams, but to reach a level where you beat them so consistently you win the league with ~100 points will take much more than a decent coach, it'll require us to bring in the very best.
 

glazed

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Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.
This is right.
 

Vaultech

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Under Ole, we struggled to beat the lesser teams and for that we don't need the absolute elite managers out there (unless they become easily available).

As for the head to heads with the top 4, United have shown they can beat anyone playing pragmatic, counter-attacking football, and that can still be our style in one-off games.

I think most people are overthinking this and underestimating our team. A half-decent coach (any of the suggested names currently) will get us competing for the biggest trophies because you don't play City and Liverpool every week.
You're wrong. Pep and Klopp in full gear can get teams earning 100 points a season. To consistently beat them to the title requires a coach that can dominate games consistently, not just winning with a fluke goal.

Your kind of thinking is why we end up with Ole for 3 years.
 

eire-red

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Yes I do believe Ten Hag can implement his system on the team and the players are capable of adapting to it. If anything, it’s Poch who’s had trouble doing that at PSG with the player personnel there at his disposal / not being able to adapt to it. Ten Hag is the one who’s shown the beat keeps on going with all the roster turnover he’s dealt with at Ajax these past years.

It’s because he is on a different level compared to Poch.
I just dont know how you can be so certain of the bolded part. I wouldn't mind either at United, and both of them would bring risks and uncertainty.

The Dutch league is just not comparable to any of Eurpoe's top leagues, so in that sense Ten Hag brings even more uncertainty.

The sad things is that I don't think either are on the same level as Pep and Klopp, or ever will be. Nobody out there is, but we need to bring someone in who can at least stick with them until Pep leaves City and that Liverpool team passes it's peak.
 

royboy16

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Does anyone know when Pep, Klopp or Tuchel were appointed for their new clubs how many back room staff did they bring with them or change when they became boss ?
Its all well and good getting Ten Hag but he probably has a solid back room team behind him, who's to say our current back room team are good enough for him?
 

Gurtej

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Liverpool and City most likely will both lose their managers in next 24-36 months….

Our next appointment is critical bcoz we need to get the best man in charge as the window of opportunity to pip both of them will be short but definitely will be there….

Chances of pool or City to do better than their current managers is very small but we can improved heck a lot more …. So let’s not rush into decision making and take time…
 

passtheball

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What's so impressive about City and Liverpool currently is how consistently they win, and how convincingly they do it. They look completely understoppable at times. It's all well and good saying a decent coach would have us beating the weaker teams, but to reach a level where you beat them so consistently you win the league with ~100 points will take much more than a decent coach, it'll require us to bring in the very best.
I don't disagree. My argument is that the best of the best - Pep, Klopp, Tuchel (and possibly Conte) - are not available. The others have a lot of potential but they each come with question marks over them, and yet we are likely to be pleasantly surprised by what Poch, TH, or Valverde can do with our team. The years of Ole have disillusioned us to the quality of our present squad.
 

MUFC OK

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This is by far the best argument as to why Ten Hag would be preferable. Well argued.

Not sure if Pochettino can't build a system that works - but can't argue against that Ten Hag has shown eminent ability to do just this.
Yeah, it's the case at City and Liverpool tbf (with attacking players at least) - whenever someone gets injured another player comes in who knows the role, does a solid job and it usually doesn't affect overall team performance too greatly. They still play with the same identity. I would like this at our club.
 

MUFC OK

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Liverpool and City most likely will both lose their managers in next 24-36 months….

Our next appointment is critical bcoz we need to get the best man in charge as the window of opportunity to pip both of them will be short but definitely will be there….

Chances of pool or City to do better than their current managers is very small but we can improved heck a lot more …. So let’s not rush into decision making and take time…
Yup, ETH could have us in pole position to sweep up by then. I'd back him to do that if we appointed him. I expect us to get Poch and one of City/Liverpool will sign ETH - probably City.
 

passtheball

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You're wrong. Pep and Klopp in full gear can get teams earning 100 points a season. To consistently beat them to the title requires a coach that can dominate games consistently, not just winning with a fluke goal.

Your kind of thinking is why we end up with Ole for 3 years.
I despised Ole even when he as smash-grabing it against the big teams. My argument is more about how good our players are and how a good coach can get them to compete at the highest level.

I absolutely do want a coach that can dominate 90% of the league with a technical brand of football. We would still require a pragmatic approach in the big games against City, Liverpool and Chelsea because they have the three best managers in the world period and whoever we get right now is not going to be as good as them.
 

ThatsGreat

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Pochettino is going to be the first manager to get the sack even before being appointed.
 

TMDaines

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That to me automatically includes making a risky appointment. There is obviously no one out there who guarantees this as they are simply the best club managers in the game today, but there are managers who are progressive and proactive in how they want their teams playing. It's pointless to appoint someone who isn't, because that's the level we need to get to.

Whether it is ten Hag, it certainly requires someone with that kind of philosophy. And I'd much rather wait till next summer to appoint someone of that ilk than to see a big name come in now.

We appoint Pochettino and what? We become a more solid 3rd or 4th side, harder to play against, but still relying on individual brilliance in the final third? What's the point? I'd rather the club decide on a progressive vision and if the first appointment doesn't work, they make another in line with that vision. Throughout the players will develop as a better footballing side.
I would go a little further too. In terms of what Klopp has actually delivered at Liverpool, I think United fans would be somewhat justified in being disappointed at only one league title and one Champions League, with no other major honours, in six seasons.

That may seem churlish right now in our current position, but surely the aim for any United manager has to be to make them the dominant number one side again. City are still the dominant side, despite a failure to win a CL title. I'm not sure any manager will be supported indefinitely if they continued to live in City's shadow, pinching a league and a CL here and there, whilst City were hoovering up the lion's share. There's quite a difference between what Guardiola and Klopp has delivered.
 

Vaultech

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I despised Ole even when he as smash-grabing it against the big teams. My argument is more about how good our players are and how a good coach can get them to compete at the highest level.

I absolutely do want a coach that can dominate 90% of the league with a technical brand of football. We would still require a pragmatic approach in the big games against City, Liverpool and Chelsea because they have the three best managers in the world period and whoever we get right now is not going to be as good as them.
A better midfield is needed before we can talk about a good squad.
 

KingCavani

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Pochettino was every bit the match of Klopp, people forget this. With similar funds, Liverpool and Spurs were equal. Then Liverpool spent hundreds of millions on Van Dijk, Alisson and Fabinho. Spurs spent nothing. That wasn’t on Poch, that was on Spurs being incredibly tight with money at a key point in their development and the rest is history.

There’s a reason Poch is dying to leave PSG. Their galactico style is the antithesis to how he sees football. But he can’t drop the front 3 for political and commercial reasons. The man whose best attribute is getting a team to press, is given the laziest forward line. It’s a terrible match. He’s still a very good coach.
This. 100% this.

The dynamic shifted in 2018. Until that time Poch was comfortably outperforming Klopp and no one in the world would argue otherwise.
  • In January 2018 Spurs signed Lucas Moura and spent £25m. They signed literally no one the following summer.
  • In January 2018 Liverpool signed Virgil Van Dijk for £75m. In the summer they signed Fabinho, Naby Keita, Allison and Xherdan Shaqiri for a total of £161m.
So in the calendar year of 2018 with an already thin squad Spurs spent £25m to sign one player while Liverpool spent almost ten times that and pretty much competed their team. Gee I wonder why the tables turned...
 

Mick1

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I've seen this quoted a lot, but I find it hard to believe. I remember Kane, Son, Eriksen and Ali playing really good stuff, Spurs scoring a lot of goals and being generally solid throughout the squad. I'll admit, the football wasn't on the level of Guardiola, but I still remember Spurs as a good ball playing side?

I must be wrong here.. To be honest I'm not such a big advocate of Poch that I'm going to go back and watch replays of Spurs from 3 years ago, but I just don't remember Spurs under Poch as dull, or pragmatic. I think Spurs were a WC midfielder and a deeper squad away from being a real force under Poch, but it just fell apart with a lack of investment.
Tight and agressive defense, high scoring attack, statistically always one of the best 3 sides in major significant categories.
They were, relatively speaking, brilliant.

There s a certain rewriting of history happening here, and I'm not sure why. Poch s Tottenham were great, and they didn't play reactive football, something he was critisised for especially against bigger teams, hence his record.
 

VanDeBank

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People have very short memories about Pep and Klopp. Yes they were outstanding for a lot of their careers, but questions were being asked about Pep at Bayern when he was getting hammered in the CL and Klopp’s final season at Dortmund was much worse than Poch’s at Spurs. Pep to a lesser extent, but Klopp was not this sought after manger people think he was. He was even Liverpool’s second choice after Ancheloti at the time.

Every manager has a dip. Even Fergie was being question in 2003.
I think being chased by both Liverpool and Manchester United makes you a sought after coach.