The midfield that started against Wolves

[bond19821982]

Think we arent talking enough about it and it deserves some credit.

Mata, Matic and Donny. Technically they were just brilliant. Released the ball quickly and they were always available for a pass which really helped our defence. Wolves really pressed us high but we did quite well. So refreshing to see a different option to McFred.

I love Pogba and Bruno but they loses the ball very often.

Just show what we can do with a decent midfielder capable on the ball.

 

[MattJ166]

I think VDB next to a 27 year old Matic would have been exceptional. I liked the Midfield but it was lacking that bit of star quality (as you would expect).

I agree, we need a defensively sound midfielder who is comfortable on the ball.

 

[elmo]

Makes you wonder why Ole didn't try this much earlier in the season.

Fred + Scott against the likes of Sheffield was criminal considering how little chances they could string together combined.

 

[Bebestation]

I always found Neves overrated to be fair.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

They kept the ball well but lacked some real quality going forwards. We need a balance both in due course.

 

[KikiDaKats]

@bond19821982 just like you said, you love Fernandes and Pogba but they lose the ball too often. It’s either they stop losing the ball and allow the cm to transition to more creativity or bypass them.
If that can’t happen, we’ll have to settle for a cm whose core duty is protecting.
The false 9 also gave that Mid-3 an extra body to work with, which can’t be ignored. A lot of right pieces were in place to make it work well in contrast to the tools we have in our main 11.

 

[CG1010]

To be fair this was the same midfield we had against Leicester and they had a mare. We tried Mata+VDB combination earlier in the season and again it gave us very inconsistent results. The real takeaway from this game is that VDB may have a future at a deeper position still, as he has shown something there. Let's hope he can build from this performance.

 

[Cast5]

Think we arent talking enough about it and it deserves some credit.

Mata, Matic and Donny. Technically they were just brilliant. Released the ball quickly and they were always available for a pass which really helped our defence. Wolves really pressed us high but we did quite well. So refreshing to see a different option to McFred.

I love Pogba and Bruno but they loses the ball very often.

Just show what we can do with a decent midfielder capable on the ball.

Because we have never won a game with Fred and Mctominay in our midfield..

Thought Matic and Donny played well but Mctominay and Fred are a better pair.

 

[Galactic]

VDB does well in this system, we know that already. One touch quick tempo football against team defending high line. But our problem has always been playing against mid/low table counter attacking low block teams that sit back.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Which is why I want to play Bruno as a false 9 and get Ndidi.

Rashford-------Bruno--------Sancho
------Pogba-----Ndidi-----DVB

Now that would be something

 

[Classical Mechanic]

To be fair this was the same midfield we had against Leicester and they had a mare. We tried Mata+VDB combination earlier in the season and again it gave us very inconsistent results. The real takeaway from this game is that VDB may have a future at a deeper position still, as he has shown something there. Let's hope he can build from this performance.

There was pressure in the Leicester game it had an intensity to it because of Leicester's position. Yesterday was a free hit, a nothing game. There's not too much to be read into it.

 

[Bwuk]

It was a dead rubber. Let's not get carried away.

 

[ivaldo]

There was pressure in the Leicester game it had an intensity to it because of Leicester's position. Yesterday was a free hit, a nothing game. There's not too much to be read into it.

This.

 

[Sky1981]

There was nothing to play, its always the theme when there's nothign to play, U23 and youngster and deadwood impresses, nothing strange.

Not saying they're bad, but they still need to prove themselves in matches where it actually matters.

 

[dal]

I think this is VDB’s position, he’s not good enough in the hole, he needs the ball a lot more and he’s quite tidy with it, he will get better next season I feel.

Fred, Mctominay, VDB, Carrick-type.

I think that’s good enough considering how we play.

Cavani, Rashford, Bruno, Greenwood, Grealish, Sancho.

Pogba, martial, Lingard Out.

If we can do that for next year I think we can challenge.

That’s the Calibre we need. Replace Cavani with a similar type and I’m happy.

 

[Olecurls99]

Which is why I want to play Bruno as a false 9 and get Ndidi.

Rashford-------Bruno--------Sancho
------Pogba-----Ndidi-----DVB

Now that would be something

That would be good.

No Greenwood in your first team though?

 

[Red_toad]

I always found Neves overrated to be fair.

People out there wanting us to splurge 40 million on the guy. He was an exceptionally talented youngster but hasn’t really kicked on at Wolves, scores some cracking goals which seems to increase the hype, but looks one paced and not the greatest positionally which enhances that problem.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

People out there wanting us to splurge 40 million on the guy. He was an exceptionally talented youngster but hasn’t really kicked on at Wolves, scores some cracking goals which seems to increase the hype, but looks one paced and not the greatest positionally which enhances that problem.

Think Wolves were quoting £100m for him at one point.

 

[Bebestation]

People out there wanting us to splurge 40 million on the guy. He was an exceptionally talented youngster but hasn’t really kicked on at Wolves, scores some cracking goals which seems to increase the hype, but looks one paced and not the greatest positionally which enhances that problem.

Yeah, I won’t really change topic for too long but all he is to me is a player with a good creative pass (there was a nice cross/pass from out wide that bypasses everything in our team)- yet people assume that’s all you need to be dictating the midfield tempo of a top team like an orchestra in the deep. Players like Carrick, Pirlo, Xabi Alonso etc have something about the way they play and the time they play to that Ruben Neves doesn’t really have. Just a good passer because he doesn’t dominate or dictate the game that much.

 

[11101]

It was the final game of the season and neither team had anything to play for.

We know Matic has the ability but he's no longer able to operate at the pace required i.e in any game other than this one. Mata has been running in treacle for a couple of years and will likely retire this summer. DVB has been poor so far and even yesterday in his best game of the season was still miles off either Pogba or Bruno, the players he might hope to replace.

Put them in against Liverpool or City, or even a Wolves with something to play for, and those three get bypassed like they're not there.

 

[Bobcat]

Think we arent talking enough about it and it deserves some credit.

Mata, Matic and Donny. Technically they were just brilliant. Released the ball quickly and they were always available for a pass which really helped our defence. Wolves really pressed us high but we did quite well. So refreshing to see a different option to McFred.

I love Pogba and Bruno but they loses the ball very often.

Just show what we can do with a decent midfielder capable on the ball.

Those three no doubt have a lot more ability on the ball than McFred and yes, Bruno tends to lose the ball quite a bit because of his high risk style, but i think they would really struggle vs a more competent midfield than the one we played yesterday.

Both Mata and Matic struggle badly when they face high energy midfields. If we had an anti-aging potion that made Mata and Matic 5 years younger we would be golden, but sadly we dont

 

[DWelbz19]

It was an absolute nothing game against a side that had nothing to play for — but I agree with the crux of what the OP is getting at.

Our midfield should be playing like that; controlling the ball, being comfortable in tight places under the press etc. Fred and McTominay have their uses but they’ll never be those types of midfielders.

 

[Dante]

Wolves have been the least intense pressing team in the Premier League for a few seasons now.

NES is an uber defensive counter-attacking coach. His sides tend to sit very deep and give the opposition plenty of time on the ball. That's the reason why they've always been Ole's bogey team. And also the reason why our talented but physically unimposing second string looked better than normal against them.

Matic and VDB was a Serie A level midfield playing against Serie A level team. Don't get wrong. It was a promising game from all of them. But not one to pin your hopes to. More of a 'this is what they could be' than a 'this is what they will be'.

 

[Glorio]

They started well but I thought when Wolves started pushing for an equaliser, the lack of dynamism in that midfield showed. There was a period we just couldn't get near to ball - simply didn't have the legs or strength, and therefore couldn't capitalise on the pacy players up front to counter and put the game out of reach

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I've said for 6 - 7 months now that the only way I see VDB having a future here is in that deeper CM role. I don't really care about the player he was or even the player we signed but his attributes right now suggest he can be most effective for Man Utd in that deeper position. He has the technical ability and press resistance and if he could adjust to the position I think he could learn defensive awareness as he's a highly intelligent player. I think Ideally he would be paired with a true DM like Matic but on paper he could work very well with Rice. He's been written off by many this season but I think its clear there's a talented player in there, we just need to find the best way to utilise it.

 

[Ace of Spades]

The gist of it is true, but it was a dead rubber game, we saw the limitations against Leicester.

Mata and Matic are not the answer to anything.

 

[Devil may care]

I think what we've seen for 60-65 minutes in Matic's last two performances is a balance to the double pivot that has been missing all season.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

I always found Neves overrated to be fair.

He doesn't seem to really do anything other than lash at at goal form 25 yards, which he's pretty good at. His all-round game is average.

Though yesterday, he was pretty good at committing a foul and then pretending it was him that was fouled. He did it about 4 times.

 

[bond19821982]

Well, may be I should clarify. The point is not about keeping a 35 year old Matic and Mata .it's about having midfield who is competent on the ball and controlling the game.
We could actually go a level up if we upgrade on the McFred. We aren't going to win a title with a first choice midfield of McFred. The quality difference was so huge.

 

[bond19821982]

I always found Neves overrated to be fair.

He is extremely overrated. Does nothing.

 

[bsCallout]

I think what we've seen for 60-65 minutes in Matic's last two performances is a balance to the double pivot that has been missing all season.

We were overran in midfield against Leicester with Matic being involved in a lot of the issues.

When you see what Matic CAN offer it is obvious why we want Rice stylistically.

 

[Oranges038]

It was a nothing match, aside from Elanga scoring, there was nothing to write home about from either side.

 

[Devil may care]

We were overran in midfield against Leicester with Matic being involved in a lot of the issues.

When you see what Matic CAN offer it is obvious why we want Rice stylistically.

Matic ran out of steam after an hour without a doubt, but what we saw prior, the dynamic of a proper #6/#8 double pivot were evident.

 

[Lentwood]

DvB showed again that he has quality but that’s useless if he can’t find more ways to win the ball and generally get on the ball

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

McFred definitely isn't the answer for top ambitions and we need a better defensive midfielder to release other players and other types of players.

But (as others have pointed out), last day of season, average opponents, poor v Leicester and personally, I didn't see anything from DvdB... didn't see him demand the ball, didn't see him marking well and at one point in 2nd half (posted in match day thread), we lost the ball and Matic ran back quicker.

I don't know whether he's not good enough or not used in right system (his Ajax performances were ok) or has lost a lot of confidence.

We definitely need to pass the ball better (as a team) and forwards more quickly, but I'm not convinced DvdB is part of the solution personally.

Seems polite though so swings and roundabouts?

 

[tomaldinho1]

VdB in the two is exactly what we should be doing against lower teams in the table who are 'defensive' by default. If you are against VdB s a player then at least that 'type' of more possession orientated/positional player.

Leeds, Palace, Chelsea, WBA, Arsenal, Pool, Leicester draws away from home got us 7 points, it would have been much better to go all out to win all those games and lost some whilst chasing maximum points - you could literally win 3, lose 4 and still be better off. This goes for home games as well, we drew too many games this season and last season. We need to put a much bigger emphasis on trying to win rather than not losing and not having a limited midfield pair is the biggest and easiest change that will see immediate improvements.

Keep McFred for those few big games (bolded) but it's overkill, plus they're not actually that good defensively when you look at goals we concede, when you go play someone like WBA who will sit in for 90mins and offer next to no offensive threat.

 

[V.O.]

I always found Neves overrated to be fair.

Portuguese Matty Taylor.

 

[Sandikan]

It was a dead rubber. Let's not get carried away.

Exactly this.

People are obsessed with trying to make massive statements from minimal recent evidence.

You'd get battered in midfield playing that lineup too often.

 

[DoomSlayer]

I thought Wolves were atrocious and didn't show their usual intensity. Whether that's due to worse fitness preparation or lack of anything to play for, whilst knowing your manager is leaving, I don't know. But I don't think this midfield would do wonders if played more regularly, though DVB and Matic did play well.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

The last game for their manager who was much loved against Manchester United and you lot think they weren’t up for it. Did we make them look turd or did they just bottle it. I just can’t see a team under those circumstances with a free hit not being up for it.

Note also a lot of people here who don’t watch Wolves and don’t watch a lot of Neves or for the “stats lovers” not looked up his stats. Lot of people felt the same way about Carrick though so...

I’ve been saying this for ages but Pogba and Bruno can’t/won’t do what this midfield trio did and putting whatever DM you want in isn’t going to change that unless Pogba and Bruno change. VDB, Fred, Mata are genuinely the only midfielders we have that will play a pass and instantly move to another position to receive the ball or just give an option. The rest just watch and admire their pass which means we don’t really move the ball through midfield well or even move the opposition defence about.

No doing Pogba and Bruno will always be 1st choice and overall have shown they have far better quality but if they could start doing what VDB and Mata did for me we’d vastly improve.