The Modern Draft QF1: Skizzo vs crappycraperson | Votes have been reset - vote again

At players peaks who will win the match?


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Edgar Allan Pillow

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vs


........................................... Team Skizzo ................................................................................. Team crappy ......................................

Team Skizzo

The Team

Our team will be lining up in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Samir Handanovic will be our man between the sticks. The back four is made up of three members of the great Athletico Madrid defence which has been so stingy over the last few seasons. Diego Godin and Miranda form the central partnership, a partnership which has been able to shut out opposing teams, and score quite a few themselves with set pieces. Patrice Evra and Juanfran take the full back spots.

In Midfield we have Estaban Cambiasso and Toni Kroos. Cambiasso will be the slightly more withdrawn of the two, focusing more on the defensive side, looking to break up attacks and track runners. Kroos will use his fantastic positioning and reading of the game to look to close down passing lanes, and disrupt the flow of the opposition's attack. Once winning back the ball, Cambiasso will be tasked with recycling the play and keeping possession with his tidy passing. Kroos will be responsible for dictating play from deep with his fantastic range of passing and vision.

The front four is made up of a fluid unit, consisting of Raheem Sterling, Thomas Muller, David Silva, and Robert Lewandowski leading the line. The three attacking midfielders are all mobile, and will look to constantly be moving, causing a huge problem for the opposition. Lewandowski has been called the most complete forward in the World over the last few years, and he would thrive on the movement, passing, and ability of the men behind him.


Why we would win
Quite simply, because he wouldn't be able to stop us scoring. We have a huge goal threat from all of our front 4, and their movement would cause chaos amongst his defence. Sterling on the left side, with his pace and direct running, would mean Caceres would need to be at his best. Sterling has given defenders all kinds of headaches with his speed. On the other side, Muller is playing wide right, looking to drive into the box, or find passes to link up with the other attackers. Muller drifting into space would play into his strength's against someone like Coentrao, who can occasionally leave something to be desired with his defensive awareness. Silva will now be playing centrally, having more of a direct influence on our playmaking, and a little deeper than in the previous match. Silva will thrive in pockets of space between the defence and midfield, and will wreak havoc with the movement ahead of him. Lewandowski runs. A lot. With a central pairing of Varane and Vidic, they can be got at. Vidic is a huge improvement for his defence, but as a whole unit, they lack the overall ability to be able to deal with a potent an offence as this.

On the defensive side, we're set up well to stop his attacking threat. Ribery, Gerrard, and Aguero are his biggest danger men. Juanfran has already shown he can deal with tricky wingers, by shutting down Hazard when Atletico met Chelsea. Ribery offers a similar threat, but Godin will be positioned on that side, swapped with Miranda to offer more protection when Ribery tries to cut inside. Joaquin will look to run down the line and try to get the ball across. Evra has the pace to deal with that. And with Godin and Miranda in the middle, they have enough height to deal with balls into the box. Gerrard will be looking to drive into the box, but Cambiasso would match his physicality, and look to minimize his influence. Lastly, we come to Aguero. A definite match winner on his day, but would struggle to find much space to attack with Godin and Miranda.

Overall, there's goals in this game, for both sides. I can safely say, however, that our team is much better equipped to deal with the opposition's threats, than vice versa. We have more than one avenue, and more influential players who can change the game in our favour.

Good luck Crappy!

===================================================================================================

Team Crappy

Team Tactics

Attack

Aguero, Ribery and Joaquin form a dynamic trio upfront. Joaquin will play the traditional winger role out wide, Ribery plays in his favoured role on the left where he will have the freedom to cut in and link up with Aguero and Gerrard. The team is capable of attacking in every possible sense - going out wide to cross, dribbling past defenders towards goal, surging midfield runs, through balls from deep, intricate passing in final third, long range shots etc.

Midfield

The ever understated Carrick, one of the bed rocks of United's consistent run through the latter half of last decade, plays the role of fulcrum in the midfield. Partnering him will be Portugal's best midfielder of recent times, Moutinho. He is as complete midfielder as one can be, capable of playing great through balls from anywhere on the pitch and not a defensive liability in any sense. Gerrard gets to play in his best role as the front man of a MF 3, where he will have the freedom to make those forward runs. Make no mistake though, he will still be part of the midfield battle unlike some other number 10s.

Defense

Varane and Vidic form one of the best CB partnerships in this draft. No words need to be spoken about Vidic at his peak while Varane is the best young defender about. Both complement each other really well and should be able to tackle any kind of threat thrown at them. Coentrao out wide on left provides great engine to the side while Caceres adds some tenacity. Moreover, the Portuguese will get to link up with Ribery who will relish his overlapping runs ala Alaba at Bayern. Petr Cech, a monster in his proper prime for Chelsea, forms the bed rock of the defense.

Key Points

- Lewandowski up against Vidic-Varane is a match up in my favor. Vidic faced plenty better strikers during his prime and I don't see pole making any kind of impact here.

- I have a ridiculous number of players capable of creating openings for goal in Ribery, Joaquin, Gerrard, Moutinho and Carrick. Heck even Coentrao skipping down left can put in a cross or two. Too much creative quality in the side not to result in a goal.

- Gerrard's biggest asset while playing as a part of MF 3 was the fact that he could produce as much impact as other number 10s while still being part of the midfield battle.

- 3 of his back 4 are from Atheltico's team but I don't believe they can be as effective here since for starters they don't have to cover for an as attacking full back as Evra for their club team. They are also part of a much more organised set up with better protection in front of them. Likes of Sterling and Silva won't provide any kind of defensive protecting out wide that a side like Atheltico's relies on.

- I know people don't give keepers any credence but a prime Cech circa 2004-2007 is streets ahead of Handovic. There is only one keeper on the park that can potentially keep everything out.[/QUOTE]
 

Skizzo

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Some opening points just to touch on that I think are, um, somewhat exaggerated to say the least.

Lewandowski up against Vidic-Varane is a match up in my favor. Vidic faced plenty better strikers during his prime and I don't see pole making any kind of impact here.
Lewandowski can cause problems for any defence. Vidic isn't going to single handedly shut him down. Not to mention that he's also on the same side as Muller, who will be running riot against Caceres. Muller has been a handful for much better full backs and defenders than Caceres, and Vidic is going to need to keep an eye on him. There's absolutely no way he's spending the game shutting down Lewandowski, a 1 goal every 2 game striker throughout his career, and provide the necessary backup for Caceres.

I have a ridiculous number of players capable of creating openings for goal in Ribery, Joaquin, Gerrard, Moutinho and Carrick. Heck even Coentrao skipping down left can put in a cross or two. Too much creative quality in the side not to result in a goal.
You're just listing your attackers and saying they're capable of creating chances. So are mine. Plus mine are up against a mostly inferior defence (only Vidic would have a chance of getting in to my defensive unit) Too much creative quality on our side, against a team less equipped to handle it, and it would result in even more goals for us.

3 of his back 4 are from Atheltico's team but I don't believe they can be as effective here since for starters they don't have to cover for an as attacking full back as Evra for their club team. They are also part of a much more organised set up with better protection in front of them. Likes of Sterling and Silva won't provide any kind of defensive protecting out wide that a side like Atheltico's relies on.
Cambiasso say's hello. Plus Evra and Juanfran are both capable of defending the flanks on their own defensively. Juanfran showed that against Hazard. Evra has shown that for years for United. Joaquin won't be cutting inside, he's going straight for the byline, perfect one dimensional set up for Evra to stay on top of.

I know people don't give keepers any credence but a prime Cech circa 2004-2007 is streets ahead of Handovic. There is only one keeper on the park that can potentially keep everything out.
This shouldn't even need a response, really. "potentially" keep everything out? Lewandowski can potentially put 4 goals in. Kroos can potentially slam some shots in from distance. Muller can potentially grab a couple of tap ins. As good a keeper as Cech is, he's not stopping my team from scoring. Especially considering you'd back your team to score goals against a superior set up.
 

crappycraperson

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Lewandowski can cause problems for any defence. Vidic isn't going to single handedly shut him down. Not to mention that he's also on the same side as Muller, who will be running riot against Caceres. Muller has been a handful for much better full backs and defenders than Caceres, and Vidic is going to need to keep an eye on him. There's absolutely no way he's spending the game shutting down Lewandowski, a 1 goal every 2 game striker throughout his career, and provide the necessary backup for Caceres.
I don't think the pole will be much cop against peak Vidic. You will obviously disagree, I will let voters make up their mind either way.

You're just listing your attackers and saying they're capable of creating chances. So are mine. Plus mine are up against a mostly inferior defence (only Vidic would have a chance of getting in to my defensive unit) Too much creative quality on our side, against a team less equipped to handle it, and it would result in even more goals for us.
I simply have a better attacking unit.

Aguero > Lewnandowski
Ribery >> Sterling
Gerrard > Silva

Only comparison in your favor may be Muller, but as a pure right winger Joaquin is better on the right than him.

Cambiasso say's hello. Plus Evra and Juanfran are both capable of defending the flanks on their own defensively. Juanfran showed that against Hazard. Evra has shown that for years for United. Joaquin won't be cutting inside, he's going straight for the byline, perfect one dimensional set up for Evra to stay on top of.
The reason behind Atheletico's defensive prowess is the whole team set up and as to how everyone defends from top to bottom. They do not have exception defensive quality (bar Godin perhaps) to otherwise account for it. That is missing from your team since neither Silva or Sterling are known for their graft nor have you set them up to play like Madrid

This shouldn't even need a response, really. "potentially" keep everything out? Lewandowski can potentially put 4 goals in. Kroos can potentially slam some shots in from distance. Muller can potentially grab a couple of tap ins. As good a keeper as Cech is, he's not stopping my team from scoring. Especially considering you'd back your team to score goals against a superior set up.
It is simply to point out that I have easily the better keeper here, unless you want to argue that we should not bring keepers into discussion? If voters do not want to give it any credence it is their choice, I quite rightly get to point out that my better keeper can swing this in my favor.
 

Skizzo

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I don't think the pole will be much cop against peak Vidic. You will obviously disagree, I will let voters make up their mind either way.
We can go back and forth on this as an individual battle...but like I said, Muller is gonna be tearing Coentrao a new one, and when he comes inside, Vidic can't stop both him and Lewandowski. One of them will be having some clear chances throughout the game...and both are clinical. (i think i said Caceres earlier instead of Coentrao. My mistake on that..although the fact still remains)

I simply have a better attacking unit.

Aguero > Lewnandowski
Ribery >> Sterling
Gerrard > Silva

Only comparison in your favor may be Muller, but as a pure right winger Joaquin is better on the right than him.
Just because you put arrows in there, and you speak it as fact, doesn't make it so. Aguero probably does edge Lewandowski, but Lewandowski fits our system better with technical attackers and can link up play. Gerrard and Silva I'd say were pretty even. Not to mention the fact you have no pure DM who would be able to stop Silva running the game from in front of your defence. Ribery against sterling, sure, I'll give you that one, but keep in mind, Sterling is up against Caceres, who is a decent defender, but will have his hands full still. And yes, Muller is just as far ahead of Joaquin as Ribery is Sterling, just about.

The biggest difference here is that your defence just flat out isn't good enough to stop my attackers. Bar Vidic, it's underwhelming, to say the least.

The reason behind Atheletico's defensive prowess is the whole team set up and as to how everyone defends from top to bottom. They do not have exception defensive quality (bar Godin perhaps) to otherwise account for it. That is missing from your team since neither Silva or Sterling are known for their graft nor have you set them up to play like Madrid
You say that, but I think you must have forgotten to look at your own defence here. Plus, and I'll say it again, your defence is already weaker than mine, plus with even less protection.


It is simply to point out that I have easily the better keeper here, unless you want to argue that we should not bring keepers into discussion? If voters do not want to give it any credence it is their choice, I quite rightly get to point out that my better keeper can swing this in my favor.
you do have the better keeper, although your claim of "potentially stopping everything" was what I took issue with. If we had equal defences, and the game was balanced on a knife edge, yes, keepers might make the difference...but that just isn't the case here. Your defence would struggle to stop my team making chances, and Cech would give up goals.
 

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Votes still aren't visible.

7:0, whew.
 

Barney

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Crappy's attack is significantly better than Skizzo's IMO. Aguero, Ribery and Gerrard are all better than their counterparts. The rest of Skizzo's team is better, however. I think Skizzo has one of the best teams left. If he replaces Sterling, he'll have a brilliant team.

That's only looking at things from an individual perspective though.
 

crappycraperson

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We can go back and forth on this as an individual battle...but like I said, Muller is gonna be tearing Coentrao a new one, and when he comes inside, Vidic can't stop both him and Lewandowski. One of them will be having some clear chances throughout the game...and both are clinical. (i think i said Caceres earlier instead of Coentrao. My mistake on that..although the fact still remains)



Just because you put arrows in there, and you speak it as fact, doesn't make it so. Aguero probably does edge Lewandowski, but Lewandowski fits our system better with technical attackers and can link up play. Gerrard and Silva I'd say were pretty even. Not to mention the fact you have no pure DM who would be able to stop Silva running the game from in front of your defence. Ribery against sterling, sure, I'll give you that one, but keep in mind, Sterling is up against Caceres, who is a decent defender, but will have his hands full still. And yes, Muller is just as far ahead of Joaquin as Ribery is Sterling, just about.

The biggest difference here is that your defence just flat out isn't good enough to stop my attackers. Bar Vidic, it's underwhelming, to say the least.



You say that, but I think you must have forgotten to look at your own defence here. Plus, and I'll say it again, your defence is already weaker than mine, plus with even less protection.




you do have the better keeper, although your claim of "potentially stopping everything" was what I took issue with. If we had equal defences, and the game was balanced on a knife edge, yes, keepers might make the difference...but that just isn't the case here. Your defence would struggle to stop my team making chances, and Cech would give up goals.
I reject your assertion that your defense is better. It is mainly founded on the fact that you have 3 of Athletico's defense together. But that is not the point of a "fantasy draft" at all.

I mean on which planet is Miranda a better defender than Varane? He can't even get into the Brazilian team ahead of Luiz.

Vidic is better than Godin and I see no reason why Varane-Vidic would not be a better partnership than them if they had gotten the chance to play together.

Coming to full backs, Evra is the clear standout. Just being part of Athletico's team does not elevate JuanFran to another level here. I would have Coentrao ahead of him in terms of pure quality.

And this talk about Muller tearing a new one. He is not a winger like Robben or Ribery to do so, just seem like an odd statement to make for him. He will have an impact on the game but I don't see him being the deciding factor, no more so than someone like Ribery is capable of being.
 

crappycraperson

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Crappy's attack is significantly better than Skizzo's IMO. Aguero, Ribery and Gerrard are all better than their counterparts. The rest of Skizzo's team is better, however. I think Skizzo has one of the best teams left. If he replaces Sterling, he'll have a brilliant team.

That's only looking at things from an individual perspective though.
How is his defensive paring better than Vidic-Varane. If drafting is just going to reduce to finding successful club pairs, then we should remove the "fantasy" part. Varane has everything in his locker to be a great partner for peak Vidic. A peak Vidic could do every thing than Godin can and then some more.

Also @antohan once told me that Godin does not fancy himself playing as a RCB and it is always LCB for him. If I (he) is not wrong about that, I don't think Skizzo's switch would help him at all here.
 

crappycraperson

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I picked the 11 and it was 6-5 to Skizzo

Cech
Juanfran Godin Vidic Evra
Carrick kroos
Muller Silva Riery
Aguero

Should be closer than 7-0
So Gerrard is a factor :D

I hate 'pool as much as anyone , heck I even hate Owen even when he was with us! But peak Gerrard > peak Silva for me. I am fine if others disagree but peak gerrard in right set up is better.
 

antohan

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How is his defensive paring better than Vidic-Varane. If drafting is just going to reduce to finding successful club pairs, then we should remove the "fantasy" part. Varane has everything in his locker to be a great partner for peak Vidic. A peak Vidic could do every thing than Godin can and then some more.

Also @antohan once told me that Godin does not fancy himself playing as a RCB and it is always LCB for him. If I (he) is not wrong about that, I don't think Skizzo's switch would help him at all here.

Well, no, I don't think I would say he doesn't fancy himself, more that any pairing or trio he has ever been involved in he has taken the left spot. Invariably. Whether that is him not fancying the right or him always being better than his partner on the left is a separate matter.

I do agree though this whole swapping defenders around as if they were easily interchangeable is very odd. If you always have Godín-Miranda then play Godín-Miranda and if you switch to Miranda-Godín for whatever kneejerk reason then don't expect to get the same proven partnership.

Can't have your cake and eat it, basically.
 

Kazi

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Juanfran-Godin-Miranda is pure cheating tbh. Meanwhile Kroos is proving to be the best regista of the generation, taking over that mantle from Xavi.
 

Skizzo

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Well, no, I don't think I would say he doesn't fancy himself, more that any pairing or trio he has ever been involved in he has taken the left spot. Invariably. Whether that is him not fancying the right or him always being better than his partner on the left is a separate matter.

I do agree though this whole swapping defenders around as if they were easily interchangeable is very odd. If you always have Godín-Miranda then play Godín-Miranda and if you switch to Miranda-Godín for whatever kneejerk reason then don't expect to get the same proven partnership.

Can't have your cake and eat it, basically.
Kneejerk reason makes it sound like we just threw it in there with no reason. We explained why he was swapped, since we actually set our defence up and explained why we would counter his attack.

All we got in response was

my guy>your guy
my guy > your guy
my guy >>your guy
 

Skizzo

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How is his defensive paring better than Vidic-Varane. If drafting is just going to reduce to finding successful club pairs, then we should remove the "fantasy" part. Varane has everything in his locker to be a great partner for peak Vidic. A peak Vidic could do every thing than Godin can and then some more.

Also @antohan once told me that Godin does not fancy himself playing as a RCB and it is always LCB for him. If I (he) is not wrong about that, I don't think Skizzo's switch would help him at all here.
The part we're focusing on is that not only are they both good (or great in Godin's case) defenders anyway...but that the added benefit of them playing together helps.

Why do you think Barney was trying to get Gerrard-Xabi-Masch. Or we also see Rio-Vidic/Terry-Carvalho/Seedord-Davids.

obviously it's a factor. You are arguing that Varane and Vidic could work. I'm proving that ours will.
 

NoPace

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I don't really trust that Varane-Caceres-Carrick-Joaquin right side against Lewandoski/Silva-Sterling-Kroos-Evra, so I voted for Skizzo.

Rest seemed sort of equal.

The 10's are Silva finding gaps wide of and between Moutinho and Carrick might be a tad more promising than Gerrard having to deal with Cambiasso in his face all game, though Moutinho might be a key figure with Gerrard occupying Cambiasso's attention and Silva not really getting back to stop Moutinho from pulling strings.

Cech and Aguero vs Handanovic and Lewandowski at the ends of the pitch mean that if the chances were equal, you'd have to fancy Crappy slightly.
 

MTR

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I picked the 11 and it was 6-5 to Skizzo

Cech
Juanfran Godin Vidic Evra
Carrick kroos
Muller Silva Riery
Aguero

Should be closer than 7-0
Mine would be 6-5 to @crappycraperson but if he wants my vote he needs to convince me that Martin Caceres isn't a liability. The only thing about him I can recall it's that he often gets sent off.
 

Skizzo

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Mine would be 6-5 to @crappycraperson but if he wants my vote he needs to convince me that Martin Caceres isn't a liability. The only thing about him I can recall it's that he often gets sent off.
Here's a few quotes regarding his defending.

Cáceres is a bit of a risk-taker, and this makes him a defensive liability at times as well. He is also not hesitant in going feet first into challenges, which has led to injuries and disciplinary issues. As a right-footer playing on the left for Uruguay, there is the potential risk for Tabárez's side that he could be caught out by a strong winger looking to keep the ball on the outside
Here he is on the right, up against Sterling who will look to cut inside. Risky challenges against pace and trickery...won't end well.

And some quotes from the Juve forum from their own fans

Caceres is a liability. He's a decent cover for RB
This is far from the first time, he's been at fault on far too many goals over the years.
He's not a reliable defender, but his name is not Bonucci so he gets a free pass.
Not bad today but certainly not helpful IMO. Gotta be one of the more frustrating defenders to watch (when in possession and trying to move forward), he ALWAYS passes back to Bonucci and has absolutely no ideas about anything happening in front of him.
and people here want him ahead of licht.

licht is a world class right back. caceres is just a useful utility player
That moment went Caceres went to head the ball and Fiorentina started a counter basically summed up his game.

Absolutely dreadful, him and Padoin were absolutely dreadful.
I like him, but we should put him in the market this summer. We can still get something for him. The guy is always injured, is also error prone. He was the one who $#@!ed up against Roma.
Just a few comments. That was from a page and a half.
 

Isotope

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I think crappy's midfield would over-power Skizzo's midfield. But Skizzo's has better defence and a tad better attack.

What matter most is, who has the better looking sisters.
 

MJJ

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I like crappy attack more, is more explosive, midfield I would say is about even while in defense there is a clear winner but cech counters that a bit.will vote later after thinking a bit more and hearing from both managers.