Very much my thoughts. Boris' spine is robust but, for all the talk of Torres, Eto'o also gave Vidic a torrid time in 09 (and scored leaving him stranded iirc). Suarez has had the upper hand over Kompany numerous times, and then there's Mata in his element...
The Modern Draft: R1 - Isotope vs Boris
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Riiight, so basically Kompany and Vuduc with a shit tonne of protection get hammered, but Pepe and Chivu are sound, grand.
Isotope has built a good team in fairness, definitely needs a more solid defensive box to box midfielder going forward though IMO.
Anyway, just for the sake of a bit of difference, I shall make a change @Edgar Allan Pillow
In this formation, I have better attacking threat from my full backs, Arbeloa was okay going forward in the sense that he was capable of making a 15 yard pass, and Kehl was in three tournament squads for Germany based on the fact that he was a good full back, and in this situation is aided by his ability on the ball. In midfield De Rossi is the defensive minded player and Rakitic will look to get on the ball more and play incisive passes forward.
Clearly with thus change my defence is more open, but I feel my midfield in terms of individuals is at least good enough to match Isopopre's, and I still have that completely obvious threat from the flanks and on the counter.
Isotope has built a good team in fairness, definitely needs a more solid defensive box to box midfielder going forward though IMO.
Anyway, just for the sake of a bit of difference, I shall make a change @Edgar Allan Pillow
In this formation, I have better attacking threat from my full backs, Arbeloa was okay going forward in the sense that he was capable of making a 15 yard pass, and Kehl was in three tournament squads for Germany based on the fact that he was a good full back, and in this situation is aided by his ability on the ball. In midfield De Rossi is the defensive minded player and Rakitic will look to get on the ball more and play incisive passes forward.
Clearly with thus change my defence is more open, but I feel my midfield in terms of individuals is at least good enough to match Isopopre's, and I still have that completely obvious threat from the flanks and on the counter.
Sub made. Tbh, I really don't think the gap is as big as the votes.
@BorisDeLeFora you really should've kept Kehl out, he's not offering more to the defensive line as a LB than Richards does at RB.
Cavani and walcott hardly set the pulse racing but the rest of Boris' side looks pretty solid. That said Boris' strength i.e. his centre-back pairing could not be up against a worse centre-forward match up. They would be run ragged by Eto'o and Suarez.. you need quicker, more intelligent CB's to handle their movement.
@Isotope, please upgrade your defence bud.. it doesn't match up to the rest of the side. Against a half decent attack, this game would be helluva lot closer.
@Isotope, please upgrade your defence bud.. it doesn't match up to the rest of the side. Against a half decent attack, this game would be helluva lot closer.
@Raees I'm wondering, which type of attacker would you think fits going against Vidic/Kompany? As in good matchup for the defense.
Ibrahimovic. They'd handle him.. anyone big and strong, they'd relish it. If they're small and not particularly strong, they'll be fine.. but pacey, mobile, aggressive.. nope they'll definitely struggle.
An ideal CB pairing against a strike force like that is Ferdinand-Nesta/Thiago Silva/Carvalho, or one of those four paired up with say a Chiellini if you had to pick a slightly aggressive CB (like a Vidic obviously not as good but slightly more mobile to compensate).
In fact even Terry paired up with the right type of defenders, could handle them because he has superior positioning and reads mobile players better than Vidic/Kompany in my opinion despite not being quick off the mark.
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Agree there. Anyone who isn't going to stretch the play or drop deep or go wide or run behind, they'd handle with ease. Problem is that's exactly what Eto'o and Suarez do and whilst Vidic is world class, and Kompany is good, I'm not sure that their matchup provides a ying yang synergy like Ferdinand and Vidic does.
Wouldn't go as far as saying "they'd handle him" but they'd certainly relish it. The issue is of course that a player like Ibrahimovic or Drogba would also relish a physical fight as much as Vidic or Kompany would and it would be a great battle.
I think Kompany and Vidic would be at their best against strikers like RVN/Villa/RVP/Rooney and so forth, great goalscorers who aren't capable of beating them with pace and trickery.
Going for Iso. Suarez, Eto'o and Mata will be too much for Vidic and Kompany- pacy tricky forwards expose their few weaknesses. Also Iso would really want a better passer to launch quick counters
Drogba is different. He's a beast and better than Ibra. Ibra would flap it against most top defenders and especially prime Vidic.
Everything else you said.. spot on.
I live Isotope's MF and attack. Etoo and Suarez have the potential to work together and they seem like the kind of forwards Mata would prefer playing behind as well. Mascherano as the DM is perfect to shield his defense and Koke provides an option to go out wide and whip in those crosses.
For Boris, it is simply a bad match up. His strongest part is his defense, which is negated by the striker duo of the opposition. As already covered, this is pretty much the worst kind of duo that Vidic and Kompany can face.
For Boris, it is simply a bad match up. His strongest part is his defense, which is negated by the striker duo of the opposition. As already covered, this is pretty much the worst kind of duo that Vidic and Kompany can face.
I disagree, he should have started like this. I had no idea why he had a fullback in midfield. Assumed it had to be the fullbacks being great, but Richards? Really?
Kehl is originally a DM isn't he? Not a RB iirc?
I don't rate him there as much as at LB. He has no business being in this draft as a DM.
I don't think he has much business at all at this draft, except for another strong man in midfield next to DeRossi to negate the influence of the diamond.
And it's really the first time I'm hearing he's better at LB than DM. Not saying you're wrong, but I've always thought he is a DM being sometimes played at full back. @Balu ?
I think he played one or two seasons as a leftback, but always wanted to be a central midfielder. He only played 2 or 3 great seasons in midfield before that strange laceration, that didn't heal for months and continued to cause problems for years, pretty much ruined his career. He never fulfilled his potential.
I don't really care which position you choose for him, he's a solid and reliable pick in both, but nothing special in either.
Cheers Balu.
@antohan I'd even argue that it doesn't really matter where his prime is, because even if his best years came as the LB the whole idea of playing the 2 DMs is to counter the diamond(which lacks width anyway) and Kehl, who is a reliable DM/full back, is perfect to be the DM who can drift wide and help with Suarez/Eto'o/Marchisio/Koke drifting in order to create fake width for @Isotope .
Anyway, I stand behind what I thought early on in this game, Kehl-DeRossi are really good together in DM to negate that diamond, and I don't see Suarez or Eto'o enjoying this match so much which will mainly go through the middle were @BorisDeLeFora 's original formation countered wonderfully. Seems like most voters disagree with me anyway.
@antohan I'd even argue that it doesn't really matter where his prime is, because even if his best years came as the LB the whole idea of playing the 2 DMs is to counter the diamond(which lacks width anyway) and Kehl, who is a reliable DM/full back, is perfect to be the DM who can drift wide and help with Suarez/Eto'o/Marchisio/Koke drifting in order to create fake width for @Isotope .
Anyway, I stand behind what I thought early on in this game, Kehl-DeRossi are really good together in DM to negate that diamond, and I don't see Suarez or Eto'o enjoying this match so much which will mainly go through the middle were @BorisDeLeFora 's original formation countered wonderfully. Seems like most voters disagree with me anyway.
@VivaJanuzaj I don't know much about Kehl. But I can't see how, by simply put him and Rossi there in DM, could negate Mata, Koke and Marchisio. Not to mention Suarez who don't shy dropping deep between DM and CB.
When Eto'o going wide to the right, Kehl has to help Arbeloa (not a natural LB), thus leaves de Rossi on his own against Koke and Mata.
When Eto'o going wide to the right, Kehl has to help Arbeloa (not a natural LB), thus leaves de Rossi on his own against Koke and Mata.
I don't get this diamond-countering argument. In a team with de Rossi in it and such a solid CB pair, if you have Rakitic and Kehl you play Rakitic. No need to over-analyse that.