NM's front 3 is very unsexy except Bale. Malouda and Gomez is very meh. He shades the central defense duo and his full backs are two levels above. MF, wise I would just about give the edge to NM as well but not by much. Problem is Kaka at his best is a great weapon for MJJ, add to that peak Torres and MJJ looks to have a real advantage. For NM it comes down to Bale + Maicon over Baines. Matic or Pique would very much be full time involved in that battle which will affect the game too much. That does make me lean towards NM but I keep going back to Kaka.
The Modern Draft: R1 - NM vs MJJ
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
@harms I agree with you there, was expecting nm to play two men in midfield so Pjanic would have been able to roam since Essien and Matic would have handled their business but he opted for an additional midfielder instead, sacrificing his attack though.
@Annahnomoss agree with everything you said there, like mentioned above wasnt expecting him to play all three of those players.
One thing I will say is that if nm plays a high line he will get murdered with the pace of torres and Kaka while playing a deep line isn't ideal with none of his players exceptional long passers and Bale the only one who can run with the ball for long.
@Annahnomoss agree with everything you said there, like mentioned above wasnt expecting him to play all three of those players.
One thing I will say is that if nm plays a high line he will get murdered with the pace of torres and Kaka while playing a deep line isn't ideal with none of his players exceptional long passers and Bale the only one who can run with the ball for long.
I have no issues with him role wise, it is just the fact that Maicon is one of the best RB's in the draft and Bale is one of the best RW's in the draft. Piszczek is possibly the worst player in MJJ's team and he by far has the most difficult job ahead of him so he'd ideally have one of his best player for such a difficult game.
Piszxzek has fared well against Ronaldo previously and with all due respect Bale isn't even close to Ronaldo.
I agree with that. He wont play on the counter at all, which renders his attack quite useless. Kaka+Torres sounds like a great combination but I dont think that they would do a whole lot in this match.
You ca score with Bale or cross+Gomez, while I doubt that he can score through the middle. Thats why I voted for you despite lacking individual quality in midfield.
No doubt, any team that makes it an open game or attacks against you will be in danger. Kaka and Torres will grow for every game in the draft too as your opponents trades out Ji-Sung Park and Pedro etc for attacking greats.
Piszczek is a very good full back in my eyes too.
Even if Lahm was there though he'd need absolute top class quality cover defensively from the RCM(midfield in general) and CB's to handle it.Agreed on @Annahnomoss that the midfield trio of NM's looks a tad bit uninspiring and there is the lack of a playmaking, incisive player throughout the team imo.
Granted, his midfielders are generally good passers, esp Cambiasso who's brilliant at it but from a spreading and knitting play way and not a Alonso/Pirlo way. The latter type would be preferred here behind Fletcher-Strootman even if it came at the slight cost of defensive solidity. A worthy compromise imo, given the lack of a playmaker in the attacking positions and also that NM's playing a midfield trio where you'd ideally want at least one genuine playmaker.
That fairly functional midfield trio would be perfect if there was a creative genius ahead of them ala Iniesta/Silva/Ronaldinho/Kaka etc but that isn't the case here. There are some good crossers in his side but not enough incisiveness imo.
MJJ on the other hand has plenty of creativity and flair in Pjanic, Kaka and Cassano which the prolific Torres (and Kaka) will relish.
Maicon-Bale is an area where NM would potentially get some joy and maybe even cause Essien/Matic to be overburdened helping out Baines who I don't rate too highly from a purely defensive perspective. @MJJ how many matches has Baines directly played against Bale though? Bale mostly played on the left till his last season so there can't have been too many times he's squared up against Baines at LB. A potential repeat of your Sherwood-Matthews shenanigans eh?
On the other hand, Dante-Subotic is an area which really stands out the most to me. I honestly don't think they are complementary at all and they are both slow-ish and lumbering type CBs who'd look much more at ease alongside a pacier CB. Although I guess you could make a case of Subotic doing well with Hummels, a slow CB himself and that Pique-Sokratis is hardly the most athletic partnership either (Sokratis is fairly pacy though and even plays as a FB at times).
However, NM's duo is up against an electric and direct partnership in Kaka-Torres and I really can't see how they can be stopped here whilst Pique-Sokratis would be much more at home against Gomez. Then there is the strong flanks of NM's against the diamond of MJJ although MJJ has a truly gifted front trio going for him.
A lot to process
but I'm leaning towards MJJ as of now and will see how it plays out before voting.
Granted, his midfielders are generally good passers, esp Cambiasso who's brilliant at it but from a spreading and knitting play way and not a Alonso/Pirlo way. The latter type would be preferred here behind Fletcher-Strootman even if it came at the slight cost of defensive solidity. A worthy compromise imo, given the lack of a playmaker in the attacking positions and also that NM's playing a midfield trio where you'd ideally want at least one genuine playmaker.
That fairly functional midfield trio would be perfect if there was a creative genius ahead of them ala Iniesta/Silva/Ronaldinho/Kaka etc but that isn't the case here. There are some good crossers in his side but not enough incisiveness imo.
MJJ on the other hand has plenty of creativity and flair in Pjanic, Kaka and Cassano which the prolific Torres (and Kaka) will relish.
Maicon-Bale is an area where NM would potentially get some joy and maybe even cause Essien/Matic to be overburdened helping out Baines who I don't rate too highly from a purely defensive perspective. @MJJ how many matches has Baines directly played against Bale though? Bale mostly played on the left till his last season so there can't have been too many times he's squared up against Baines at LB. A potential repeat of your Sherwood-Matthews shenanigans eh?
On the other hand, Dante-Subotic is an area which really stands out the most to me. I honestly don't think they are complementary at all and they are both slow-ish and lumbering type CBs who'd look much more at ease alongside a pacier CB. Although I guess you could make a case of Subotic doing well with Hummels, a slow CB himself and that Pique-Sokratis is hardly the most athletic partnership either (Sokratis is fairly pacy though and even plays as a FB at times).
However, NM's duo is up against an electric and direct partnership in Kaka-Torres and I really can't see how they can be stopped here whilst Pique-Sokratis would be much more at home against Gomez. Then there is the strong flanks of NM's against the diamond of MJJ although MJJ has a truly gifted front trio going for him.
A lot to process
but I'm leaning towards MJJ as of now and will see how it plays out before voting.
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@Joga_Bonito no shenanigans this time. In his final season, bale did roam from position and would have faced Baines, although his opposite number coleman isn't much better defensively or Neville. I stressed over that as I knew nm would paint Baines as a defensive liability which he isn't.
Am acknowledging that he will beat Baines a few time by having Essien positioned there and double teaming Bale where possible.
Fair enough, it was just a tongue in cheek comment mate
Hahah I know but draft games are serious business ^^Fair enough, it was just a tongue in cheek comment mate
So, this isn't going well. I maintain that MJJ has bigger names, but my lads would beat them due to the organization.
Would James instead of Malouda make a difference?
Would James instead of Malouda make a difference?
Since NM seems to have gone AWOL, I'll post some comments on his behalf to keep this lively.
- Superiority on the flanks. NM has clearly better fullbacks. Both fullback's can own their flanks individually even without support from the wingers. He has a clear opportunity route to go for score from wide areas. Maicon's crosses added to Bale's talent will ensure a continuous flow of chances down that wing. Completely disagree that Essien being there will help MJJ. It will be Essien who will get double teamed there not vice versa.
- With lack of superiority in flanks, MJJ's sole route to goal will be through the middle and NM has 3 players Cambiasso, Strootman and Fletcher, who are just suited perfectly to blunt any playmaking Kaka or Pjanic can do. It will be quite crowded there and the way to goal is neither easy nor straight. It would have been better if MJJ had a Rooney type player who can drop and create for Torres. Cassano does not have the workrate to do it and Torres dropping deep will blunt MJJ attack to a great extent.
Simply put, though MJJ may have better individual players in Kaka/Torres, the attack will be centred around Bale for most of the match.
- Superiority on the flanks. NM has clearly better fullbacks. Both fullback's can own their flanks individually even without support from the wingers. He has a clear opportunity route to go for score from wide areas. Maicon's crosses added to Bale's talent will ensure a continuous flow of chances down that wing. Completely disagree that Essien being there will help MJJ. It will be Essien who will get double teamed there not vice versa.
- With lack of superiority in flanks, MJJ's sole route to goal will be through the middle and NM has 3 players Cambiasso, Strootman and Fletcher, who are just suited perfectly to blunt any playmaking Kaka or Pjanic can do. It will be quite crowded there and the way to goal is neither easy nor straight. It would have been better if MJJ had a Rooney type player who can drop and create for Torres. Cassano does not have the workrate to do it and Torres dropping deep will blunt MJJ attack to a great extent.
Simply put, though MJJ may have better individual players in Kaka/Torres, the attack will be centred around Bale for most of the match.
Feckin hell, I just pitched in since you seem to be gone...
@Joga Bonito Kaka would be up against my midfielders, not the centerbacks. I have a direct plan and route to goal. Gomez is perfect for his role here and is being repeatedly overlooked. But the ask is simple. Get on the end of the crosses and score. Pique and Sokratis will not be able to deal with him.
I'm gone again. Busy day at work.
The vote is 16-11 to MJJ right now with plenty of managers left t vote
Can you elaborate on this mate? That seems a very strange comment to make about a team containing Kaka and Torres, both of whom were lightning quick. Piszczek is very fast as well, and Essien was fast enough at his peak too.
@Edgar Allan Pillow I want to withdraw but can't change my vote in the poll options, any chance of fixing it?
Yeah, I stand by that. Your timeframe (2012 - 15) confused me a bit, he has been injured all the time since 2013 and never hit his peak again. But for 2 seasons, he was absolutely fantastic.
NM's team will win the midfield battle and ensure that Torres/Kaka won't have much joy.
i really don't like MJJ's midfield and defence, he has got a better attack.
I think @NM could improve his chances a bit by replacing Malouda
i really don't like MJJ's midfield and defence, he has got a better attack.
I think @NM could improve his chances a bit by replacing Malouda
Do you know they call pjanic, the bosnian fletcher?
Also, dont see how the midfield battle is important since his midfield is boring, none of them are going to create a lot. Cassano, Pjanic, Kaka and Torres will drift wide so there will be space to operate. In a game with few chances, I would back torres(superior striker) vs curtois(inferior goalie) than gomez vs neuer.
I find both teams pretty underwhelming to be honest, sorry guys. I really don't rate Cassano and am not convinced that the diamond is a very good set-up here. I think Gomez' peak is a bit underrated, he was an excellent finisher, had great pace and smart movement in counterattacks and can see him connect well with Bale on the counter. Bale - Maicon vs Baines is by far the clearest route to a goal, so I went for NM. But whoever goes through needs great picks in the reinforcement round to go further in my opinion.
Which areas do you feel our the weakest in my team?
That's very harsh on Piszczek. At his best he was closer than anyone else in that back-line to being "best in the world in their position" and certainly not relatively weaker than Malouda in that context. Demanding job nonetheless with such a narrow formation.
I'll consider it withdrawn.
Ouch.Current score: NM 15 - 16 MJJ
Score NM
crappycraperson
Balu
Theon
Skizzo
.
Enigma_87
sajeev
ForlansHair
|Neo|x
paulscholes18
Kazi
PedroMendez
Score MJJ
Isotope
Barney
.
Wittmann45
Mani
berbatrick
Golden Nugget
Fergus' son
TheCorkman
MTR
ctp
Cassidy
BigDunc9
RobinLFC
Raptori
.
VivaJanuzaj (withdrawn vote)
Score NM
crappycraperson
Balu
Theon
Skizzo
.
Enigma_87
sajeev
ForlansHair
|Neo|x
paulscholes18
Kazi
PedroMendez
Score MJJ
Isotope
Barney
.
Wittmann45
Mani
berbatrick
Golden Nugget
Fergus' son
TheCorkman
MTR
ctp
Cassidy
BigDunc9
RobinLFC
Raptori
.
VivaJanuzaj (withdrawn vote)
Sorry mate, I just read through the entire thing and think I really can't decide between the two of you, both deserve an equal shot to qualify so I don't want to be the deciding vote
And thanks EAP, good solution
What would you guys think of a slight formation change to tip the scales?
James Rodriguez comes in for Malouda operating in a widish-central role. He will have a free role to drift wide or move in centrally to orchestrate attacks. Adds more creativity to the middle of NM's team without losing any advantage in flank.
- James is versatile and can can play as a AM, a winger, and a central midfielder.
- Ambidextrous to operate at both flanks.
- 2014 FIFA World Cup Golden Boot winner despite Colombia's elimination in the quarter finals.
James Rodriguez comes in for Malouda operating in a widish-central role. He will have a free role to drift wide or move in centrally to orchestrate attacks. Adds more creativity to the middle of NM's team without losing any advantage in flank.
- James is versatile and can can play as a AM, a winger, and a central midfielder.
- Ambidextrous to operate at both flanks.
- 2014 FIFA World Cup Golden Boot winner despite Colombia's elimination in the quarter finals.
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This is not on. You can either put the change in and see how it works or hold back. You can't ask people if they will vote for this particular change and then put it to more votes.What would you guys think of a slight formation change to tip the scales?
James Rodriguez comes in for Malouda operating in a widish-central role. He will have a free role to drift wide or move in centrally to orchestrate attacks. Adds more creativity to the middle of NM's team without losing any advantage in flank.
- James is versatile and can can play as a AM, a winger, and a central midfielder.
- Ambidextrous to operate at both flanks.
- 2014 FIFA World Cup Golden Boot winner despite Colombia's elimination in the quarter finals.
I still think my side has more chances as Kaka will find spaces outwide and cut inside, my midfielders are better able to find kaka and torres while pjanic's through balls to torres will result in more chances. Also, having neuer as oppose to curtois should count for something.
I want MJJ to go through and see the best of that Torres/Kaka set up he had going for him but I can't be so biased as for me in this game NM should win more often than not.
Could you put this in the OP instead for MJJ's team? The current one is too asymmetrical and almost looks retarded which I think hurts our chances with the casual voters. Presentation goes a long way.
Done.
I don't think Neuer is so many levels above Courtois, so that won't be the key factor.
I do think your team is more likely to create even though I don't like Pjanic in that role despite of what you've shown about him. Fletch-Cambiasso-Strootman is much less shiny than your midfield, but against the diamond I think it works, especially with that sort of defense behind it.. I really can't vote for Malouda as I didn't rate him even at Chelsea's CL final campaign, so thats one of the reason that held me back from voting for NM. Overall, I think neither team will score really. Torres-Cassano with Kaka behind it is superb, but with the lack of width and with that defense it will be difficult to score, and although I rate Gomez pretty highly at his Bayern prime(I think he was superb at the box), I'd bet he won't score here either.
I think that out of 10 games, 5 will end in a 0:0 or 1:1, and one of you guys will win 3 games while the other wins 2. I'd guess you'll win the 3, but I'm not enough sure to place my vote on it. Plus, 5 draws out of 10 matches is a lot.
Very even teams, neither of which are particularly inspiring. In reality it would probably end up 1-1.
I'm abstaining
I'm abstaining