Could see him retiring early due to repeated ankle problems
The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?
- Thread starter Fortitude
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Well well, what a fallen star.
Transfers to Saudi Arabia and most peoples (rightful) reaction is just a shrug. Who would've thought that his career went like that after being on top of everything in 2015.
Transfers to Saudi Arabia and most peoples (rightful) reaction is just a shrug. Who would've thought that his career went like that after being on top of everything in 2015.
I guess the question "has Neymar blown it?" has finally been answered with this move.
I will always maintain that he is a great player. But he hasn't had luck with injuries and he seems to have lost his way a bit in the last couple of years.
He was unlucky to have the retirement/ageing/leaving of Xavi,Iniesta & Pep.
Would have won plenty more with the Barcelona core.
Would have won plenty more with the Barcelona core.
Only salvation is leading his nation to the WC now. I doubt that's going to happen.
People will always say that leaving Barcelona and going to PSG was a mistake but I'm not sure. He was awesome those first couple of years in Paris but most didn't watch him there. And of course PSG couldn't get over the hump in the CL, though they came close. If they win that final....or if Brazil don't lose to Croatia on pens after Ney's fantastic goal....or if he simply didn't get injured all the time....what could have been. A lot of Brazilian legends fall off in the latter part of their careers, the shame for Neymar is that he didn't get either of the big ones (World Cup, WPOTY) before the fall....
I think his career would have been infinitely more interesting if he had stayed with Barca.
I'm not sure. He gets little to no credit for winning the CL with them as the tournament's joint top scorer, a scorer in the final and the driving force behind their epic comeback against PSG, so it's clear that he would have continued to get little to no credit had he stayed.
Generational talent, but I'm not sure he ever had the proper determination/mindset, and he was too injury prone.
Nevertheless, it's kind of a shame that one of the most talented players of this generation is going to the Saudi league this early. Hard to imagine he'll play a part in the next World Cup.
Nevertheless, it's kind of a shame that one of the most talented players of this generation is going to the Saudi league this early. Hard to imagine he'll play a part in the next World Cup.
I think that's more down to barca fans having hard feelings about him leaving for PSG. And his persona which is universally disliked
I've always thought leaving Barcelona wasn't the problem as much as people cite that move. Joining them was. He and his entourage should have chosen Real Madrid in 2013. He would never have become the best player in the world at Barcelona or got the credit as you said but he was destined for greatness at Santos and in that 3 peat team he would have gone down as a GOAT.
He's never been the best player in the world and never would be in that era. It was always Messi and Ronnie.
I actually think he left Barcelona a couple years too early, while I agree leaving Barcelona wasn't the problem given their management. He should have join an EPL club instead of PSG as well.
I think it was the right decision to step out of Messi's shadow. He was great at Barca but played second fiddle, had to stay wide or run behind, etc. At PSG, he essentially played Messi's role.
But I still think his career trajectory had much to do with PSG. It's not good for a team if it is so far ahead of the domestic competition. There's less tension, less discipline, less competition. Off the pitch distractions like nightlife or unhealthy food get more tempting when you know you'll win the league anyway. Exceptions become bad habits - e. g. when Tuchel took over, he fired the team doctor because he used to smoke hookah with the players. Chanceless opponents are more frustrated, you get to showboat more and showboating actually got Neymar injured quite a few times. And when there's no other elite team in the league and all your high pressure games occur in the UCL, you're not used to the intensity, even if you're good enough to play at this intensity in general. The coach has less power in a club that puts so much emphasize on star players as well.
Neymar in a team like City, Bayern, Real, Barca or the likes would have been much, much different.
He was better than Ronaldo and even Messi for a period. End of 2015 for example. And he was the one leading the remontada in 2017 over Messi. He was certainly the best player in the world then. Individually there was barely anything seperating him and Ronaldo, it's not as clear cut as you think.
There was no way he could win at Barcelona. It was Messi's club. If you win the CL/Liga Messi is the Ballon Dor and if you dont Ronaldo wins.
He would have been an actual rival to Messi if he had gone to Real Madrid and challenged the status of Ronaldo.
Fair points, can't really disagree that much
He has clearly blown it. For the ability he has it’s been a really underwhelming career, to top it off by going to a league that bad at his age is just dreadful. Obviously there are good players going there just for absolutely crazy money, but a player like him should be above it seeing as he’s still surely got plenty to offer at one of Europe’s big clubs.
Between Neymar and Bale who had the better career?
I'd choose an injury free Neymar over CR7 for my team without any doubt.
He's possibly the player with the worst ratio legacy/potential in the last 50 years.
He's possibly the player with the worst ratio legacy/potential in the last 50 years.
Nostradamus here
3/4 of the Brazil squad will be there by the time the WC comes along.
I always wonder if, as a player, you win the Champions League, then is everything you do after this a bonus? Say for example you win the CL by 22 years of age, would you decide your career based on money and make sure you have generational wealth or earn less money but have a greater chance at winning titles? The CL is the pinnacle. People say Neymar has blown his career, but he has won the CL, played for Barcelona and his country. He has more money than God and is adding to it.
If it was me I’d still want to win titles but I’d go where the money is first and foremost. Most players still have over half their lives ahead of them when they retire.
If it was me I’d still want to win titles but I’d go where the money is first and foremost. Most players still have over half their lives ahead of them when they retire.
Mane, Mahrez, Kante are in Saudi now, Hazard is currently clubless. These are all guys in Neymar age bracket and 3 of them were EPL players of the season in recent times. 163m a year, 3m per week is hard to turn down. Football is a career for them and to make the most money in a short while, This Saudi money is here now, Players are trying to grab as much of it as they can.
If you have won the CL and over 30yrs, there is nothing new for you to achieve in Europe, Just go grab the money
I would say it applies more to the World Cup than the Champions League and in terms of Neymar’s career the WC for a Brazilian is far more important. But for Dwight Yorke for example, he said that once he won the treble that was his motivation to be elite gone, he even asked Fergie for a year off to party. Can be hard to motivate after such achievements. I think Neymar though had more goals than that despite winning the treble. The World Cup and Ballon d’Or have eluded him.
That’s not really the case. You get guys like Ronaldo whose priority is to get absolutely everything possible from his football career in terms of medals and achievements. How many players over 30 just half arse it once they have one Champions League winners medal in the bag? A hell of a lot of the top players keep going for more and more. He’s only really got 2 Spanish league titles as major honours outside of his CL, and for his talent that’s rubbish.
Mahrez and Kante aren’t close to his talent level and were never going to leave a memorable legacy anyway, albeit both spent their primes in one of the top 2 leagues in the world, their league win with Leicester probably eclipses anything Neymar has too; so better more fulfilled careers with half the talent. Hazard has other issues. But
Let's not go overboard, now...
It's interesting to view his career now.
Thing is, those injuries at PSG kept piling up. I think prior to his injury in 2017-2018, he was at worst the 2nd best player in the world(that's how good he was that season). And even though I think he declined slightly after that injury, he was still excellent the following seasons, but the injuries never stopped piling up. He's just been unlucky with injuries.
I honestly think he's got more natural talent than CR7 did, but he doesn't have that insane motivation/drive to extract more from his career at this point in time, because he's way too good for that league even with his injury woes.
Thing is, those injuries at PSG kept piling up. I think prior to his injury in 2017-2018, he was at worst the 2nd best player in the world(that's how good he was that season). And even though I think he declined slightly after that injury, he was still excellent the following seasons, but the injuries never stopped piling up. He's just been unlucky with injuries.
I honestly think he's got more natural talent than CR7 did, but he doesn't have that insane motivation/drive to extract more from his career at this point in time, because he's way too good for that league even with his injury woes.
Bale. But Neymar the higher peak as a player.
Pretty sure Neymar's collected more team honors and individual honors. So how has Bale had the better career?
5 Champions leagues
He barely featured in 2 of those titles.
Using this logic - does Anderson have a better career than Gerrard since he's got way more Premier League titles?
I think the biggest argument would be that Neymar only spent 4 years in a top league (La Liga).
Bale mainly spent his career in the Premier League and La Liga (15 years total, the last being a blank one)
I don't like the trophies argument as that is more about the team than about any individual player. Although 5CL vs 1 is a pretty big difference.
Neymar of course was way more talented and had an insane peak.
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I wonder if it's only a matter of time before we see 25 year old world class players leave Europe
Bale.
Depends on if you think winning trophies are important or not, players certainly do, and Bale has 5CL winner trophies sitting in his cabinet, the premiere club competition in world football. Neymar has 1 and a bunch of French titles. For individual honours it is a lot closer, Bale probably edges this also however.
Bale was the man for the big occasion. The CL final overhead bicycle kick vs Liverpool one of the more outrageous goals scored in a CL final I have seen. His solo run from inside his own half around Bartra to win the Copa Del Rey final, there is always talk about 'doing it on the big stage against top opposition', well you don't get bigger than those two goals in terms of competition and opposition.
How does Bale have more individual honors?
Neymar has 80 goals + assists in the UCL, while Bale has 37.
In a lot of those UCL titles, Bale was hybernating during the season and would show up in the final, much more comparable to Isco than Ronaldo in a lot of those teams. Also rich to include the 2022 UCL in Bale's trophy cabinet
Go to transermarkt or Wikipedia and look them up I am not writing them all down. Yes Neymar won a lot of Chuteira de Ouro's and a couple Bola de Prata, and a lot of other South American individual accolades before moving to European football. I am talking more European competition, got to remember Bale hoovered up every single individual accolade for Wales since forever, top goal scorer, footballer of the year, etc. Then a bunch of PL accolades once he moved to Spurs, the usual, young player of the year, player of the year, PFA team of the year etc etc, before even moving to Spain.
He is a brilliant player but moving to Saudi is a sad way to end it at age 31. Sure he has had injuries but he has so much talent that surely he could have had 2 more seasons in one of the big leagues. The sad shrug reaction is a reflection of just how far he ended up from what could have been expected.