The Oasis Draft - QF: Sjor/harms vs Jim Beam

With players at their career peak, who would win?


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Physiocrat

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Sjor/harms



Jim Beam



Sjor/harms Tactics

Classic 433 with lots of fluidity in possession. Defensive-wise we've built a great foundation for the team to shine with the ball. All of our players have good workrate and defensive nous, so the team as a unit will be very formidable, backed with a GOAT defensive core of Yashin-Nesta-Rio & proper grafters in midfield.

Offensive-wise the setup is pretty much built to get the best out of every player in the team. All players are great on the ball, a lot of movement and outstanding supporting cast should make Xavi, the best midfielder of all time, shine. Surrounded by players that fit like a glove to the system, Xavi should be on the very top of his game, and when that happens his team always plays brilliant football.

Individual Roles

Defense

Yashin is the first brick of our 3-men GOAT wall in defence, one of the rare classic keepers that seamlessly fits the mould of a modern keeper. In front of him we have 2 stylish defenders — one of the rare stoppers that is amazing and elegant on the ball (which is crucial for our system) in Alessandro Nesta and our very own Rio Ferdinand, defender that dominated the post-Nesta era. Pace, power, brains and class on the ball, pretty much everything you want in a defender. Then there're two of our fullbacks, Bessonov on the right and one of the best ever in Andreas Brehme on the left. Both had great engines, and were comfortable both with and without the ball in both phases of play.

Midfield

Xavi is the most dominant midfield playmaker of all-time and many would argue that he's simply the greatest ever midfielder. We've built the team around him to give him the most freedom & fitting partners. Like Jean Tigana — arguably the best ever ball-winning midfielder for a possession-based system that acts in a supporting role to a star playmaker instead of challenging him. Certainly the most elegant one, with his incredibly smooth dribbling style and inventive passing.

Olympique de Marseille had won the Champions League in 1993, becoming the first and, until this day, the only French club to win the competition. In the second half of the 90's Juventus became the best club side in the world, reaching 3 CL finals in a row (winning one) & almost beating United's treble-winning side in the semis on their way to the 4th. France of the 98-00 was an unstoppable juggernaut that had won 2 major international tournaments in a row. Now what (or who) did those team had in common? Didier Deschamps. He never was the biggest star, but he was the ultimate water-carrier; fantastic workrate, leadership and underrated passing, there's not many upgrades for him in that role.

Attack

On the left there's Ribery, Bayern's creative genius and also a proper grafter that will run all day long (and form an unstoppable duo with Brehme). On the right with more of a free role we have the underrated Raymond Kopa, that many consider to be an equal to Platini and Zidane. He absolutely dominated the late 50's, gaining 4 consecutive top-3 Ballon d'Or inclusions as well as winning one in 1958. He had led Reims to a European Cup final and won 3 more with Real Madrid.

We felt like this team lacked a ruthless finisher to make the most of our team's endless creativity, and we've got one of the best — Jimmy Greaves, a man who had scored more than 500 goals throughout his career (counting only official matches), including 44 goals in 57 games for England and 357 goals in English top-flight football — more than anyone else (even Shearer & Rooney). He finished as the First Division top scorer in six seasons.

Jim Beam Tactics

I N T R O (An Ode to Il Capitano)

Will borrow the words, well, some parts of the sentence from one other draft freak that in the end had a bit different meaning to describe what is above.


After all, that is the meaning or the rush as we junkies (hi bepo) would say it. To put combination we never been able to see in reality and envision how would they operate for 90 minutes on that pitch.

So, here you go Il Capitano, you will get one thing you never been able to get in 25 long year of your illustrious career. A fantastic team to walk out with.


"There are many star players in Italy, but the only one I would bring to Bayern Munich would be Totti."
- Franz Beckenbauer​


Tactics: 4-3-3, 4-5-1, 4-6-0... you name it, it is hard to nailed it, as the purpose is to completely outwit opposition which will never knew from which side will come a goal-threat. As all great things, conducted by accident or injury of Roma forward players at the time.

Playing style: direct, fast, with immense counter-attacking ability

Conclusion: The opposition will have to find another way to win this then what's shown in the 1st round and how the team was built as no way they will win the midfield battle and Xavi being close to optimal

More to follow...
 

harms

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Yeah, that won't work this time.
Why? Your team is very direct and you have 2 pure wingers, while we have 3 midfielders centrally and also Ribery and Kopa who will participate more in the midfield battle. We're still going to have more of the ball (especially since you're not trying to win possession there).

On the other hand, Totti plays as a false 9 with more traditional wingers (cue for GSTQ to join and argue about Czibor) against 2 center backs that he has abysmal (Rio) and quite average (Nesta) record against. This front 3 is built for someone like Sheva, imo.
 

harms

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Peak Xavi also dominated Schweinsteiger-led teams for a while. When he became too old, other teams like Bayern began to take an advantage of it, but before that he was untouchable.
 

Jim Beam

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Why? Your team is very direct and you have 2 pure wingers, while we have 3 midfielders centrally and also Ribery and Kopa who will participate more in the midfield battle. We're still going to have more of the ball (especially since you're not trying to win possession there).

On the other hand, Totti plays as a false 9 with more traditional wingers (cue for GSTQ to join and argue about Czibor) against 2 center backs that he has abysmal (Rio) and quite average (Nesta) record against. This front 3 is built for someone like Sheva, imo.
Avarage record against Nesta? Can you check again and come back.

Will post soon on that point. My team is direct in attack, compact and sits back while you're attacking with Bastian on Xavi (0-7). No way you will get best of Xavi against this midfield.

He can pass back, sideways all day long like in that game. As soon he enters the other half of the pitch it will be that night in Munchen all over again.

No way you win midfield battle.
 

Jim Beam

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Peak Xavi also dominated Schweinsteiger-led teams for a while. When he became too old, other teams like Bayern began to take an advantage of it, but before that he was untouchable.
Yeah, he didn't. First time they met and Bastian was in the middle was WC 2010. Check the position of Bastian before that.
 

Jim Beam

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And here is Nesta against Totti as number 9.

Totti show, that's how Gazzeta called it also...


More Nesta against Totti to follow.
 

harms

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Avarage record against Nesta? Can you check again and come back.

Will post soon on that point. My team is direct in attack, compact and sits back while you're attacking with Bastian on Xavi (0-7). No way you will get best of Xavi against this midfield.

He can pass back, sideways all day long like in that game. As soon he enters the other half of the pitch it will be that night in Munchen all over again.

No way you win midfield battle.
Gomez and Thomas Muller dropped deep and one always occupied Sergio Busquets, preventing him from starting attacks. Barcelona’s two centre-backs and the other two central midfielders were all given more time on the ball than Busquets.

The other two attackers, Arjen Robben and Franck Ribery, were extremely disciplined in tracking Barcelona’s full-backs. Ribery was pushed back by Daniel Alves’ forward bursts and had a couple of nervous moments, but overall Bayern were compact and their two banks of four moved across the pitch together seamlessly.
That night in Munich was based on the very active participation by all of the attacking line in the defensive stage. Finney won't do it. Totti shadowing Deschamps? I doubt it.

We have an advantage in midfield. In numbers as well as in structure (as our system is more focused on retaining possession, while yours is very direct). The "no way" here is a bit OTT :)
 

harms

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And here is Nesta against Totti as number 9.

Totti show, that's how Gazzeta called it also...


More Nesta against Totti to follow.
Nice. Okay, I've made my points, so I'm going to slow down a bit. There's no joy in trying to downplay the likes of Robbo, Kaiser, Schweiney & Finney or even Patrice for me. Such a likeable squad.
 

Jim Beam

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Nice. Okay, I've made my points, so I'm going to slow down a bit. There's no joy in trying to downplay the likes of Robbo, Kaiser, Schweiney & Finney or even Patrice for me. Such a likeable squad.
Sheeeit. Ok, will take a short break. :D
 

Jim Beam

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That night in Munich was based on the very active participation by all of the attacking line in the defensive stage. Finney won't do it. Totti shadowing Deschamps? I doubt it
Yeah, Lewa work rate was immense. Totti was fantastic on the defensive side.

Just 2 notes.
 

Jim Beam

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Bastian-Beckenbauer-Robson

vs

Deschamps-Tigana-Xavi

I mean...

Ribery, Kopa tucking in. Yeah, I would go with that story.
 

Jim Beam

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@Physiocrat can you change the thread title please? I do have a soft spot for shaving queen, but we will go together another time.

Edit: was on the phone, thanks
 

Jim Beam

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Totti making Nesta average part 2 of 8


Tbf, it's not Totti at 9, or false 9 (like in previous clip), but he constantly goes in Nesta zone.
 

Jim Beam

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I give up. They had me swinging and punching for first few rounds and will finish me in the morning.

Feckers.
 

Jim Beam

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On the other hand, Totti plays as a false 9 with more traditional wingers (cue for GSTQ to join and argue about Czibor) against 2 center backs that he has abysmal (Rio) and quite average (Nesta) record against. This front 3 is built for someone like Sheva, imo.
Like wingers who are not elite scorers? Finney played as an outside right. Czibor had a freedom to roam around.

I should put Sheva as a playmaking forward? In this system? If I put Ruud this game would be over.... The beauty of Spaletti system is that you didn't know from which side it will hit you at any time because of Totti.

I will do leave last question here. Who do you think has better platform to preform. Xavi or Beckenbauer? Leaving Totti aside.

I will now go and prepare pasta for dinner (that happens when you end up in thread arguing with yourself).
 

harms

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I will do leave last question here. Who do you think has better platform to preform. Xavi or Beckenbauer? Leaving Totti aside
I genuinely think that Xavi does although you’re free to disagree. I have this thing for Beckenbauer as a libero... he’s probably a top-5 as a midfielder, but there’s a reason why he himself preferred a libero position, where he is simply unmatched by anyone.

Also, Beckenbauer having a great game doesn’t bring the opposition down as much as Xavi having a great game. Xavi just takes the ball from you and you’re done; Kaiser can do many other different things (and he’s definitely has a bigger skillset), as well as do actual defending at another level, but he doesn’t make the opposition simply irrelevant.

Our team reminds me of the more boring, but incredibly effective version of Spain, with 5 midfielders and 1 striker; and the advantage that we lose on the wings we gain by adding Ribery and Kopa as an options for Xavi’s endless triangles.
 

Jim Beam

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I genuinely think that Xavi does although you’re free to disagree. I have this thing for Beckenbauer as a libero... he’s probably a top-5 as a midfielder, but there’s a reason why he himself preferred a libero position, where he is simply unmatched by anyone.

Also, Beckenbauer having a great game doesn’t bring the opposition down as much as Xavi having a great game. Xavi just takes the ball from you and you’re done; Kaiser can do many other different things (and he’s definitely has a bigger skillset), as well as do actual defending at another level, but he doesn’t make the opposition simply irrelevant.

Our team reminds me of the more boring, but incredibly effective version of Spain, with 5 midfielders and 1 striker; and the advantage that we lose on the wings we gain by adding Ribery and Kopa as an options for Xavi’s endless triangles.
You have Deschamps on the back of Xavi. Tigana who I absolutely love, but it isn't needle type of player like Iniesta. Bastian marked Xavi out of the game (post peak Xavi maybe), but he did it. It was actually a man marking job if you look at that game.

Beckenbauer having a great game isn't like Xavi having a great game? Like penetrating you all over again or dictate the game?

Where do you honestly think Franz would play in today's game?
 

Jim Beam

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he’s probably a top-5 as a midfielder, but there’s a reason why he himself preferred a libero position, where he is simply unmatched by anyone.
And it's not about him being top 5 midfielder, it's about him:

- having Bastian to cover him when he goes forward
- Totti having a perfect partner in Robson to free the space
- in that midfield of yours relying on Xavi to produce magic operating between 3 players who not in the whole, but each one of them having an ability to stop him

But hey ho, let's agree to disagree
 
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Physiocrat

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Der Kaiser is playing where he probably would in the modern game. It's not his 66' role nor his 70s libero role. It is as a mobile DLP who can drive forward at will since he has Bastian and Robson to cover him. In a way Beckenbauer is playing a more cerebral version of the old centre-half from the 235 days.

Xavi will do ok here although a better one touch passer at DM would be more ideal such as Senna (I know they block each other) Tigana is a good fit and adds physicality. Xavi did well in the relatively direct Euro 2008 side but I'm not sure it would be as direct as this side.

I think Czibor vs Bessonov could be a winner for Beam here. Out of possession I see Beam playing wide diamond with Totti at 10 and Czibor and Finney high and wide. Whilst this makes him more porous in defence the counter could be devastating
 

harms

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Beckenbauer having a great game isn't like Xavi having a great game? Like penetrating you all over again or dictate the game?
I was very wary of my wording so I’ll post again. Beckenbauer’s penetrative passing, dribbling etc. contributes to the result, but it doesn’t really stop Xavi or others from playing their game. When Xavi is at the top of his game, the opposition’s midfield is completely negated - not by his attacking or defensive skills, but for a simple reason that they don’t see the ball.
 

harms

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I think Czibor vs Bessonov could be a winner for Beam here. Out of possession I see Beam playing wide diamond with Totti at 10 and Czibor and Finney high and wide. Whilst this makes him more porous in defence the counter could be devastating
I've posted a video of Bessonov having a good game against the peak John Barnes, but Czibor would suddenly be too much for him? I wonder why you don't have any reservations about Gerets facing Ribery & Brehme in that case. I'd actually rate Bessonov higher defensively (with Gerets having an edge attacking-wise).
 

harms

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- in that midfield of yours relying on Xavi to produce magic operating between 3 players who not in the whole, but each one of him having an ability to stop him
Yeah, it's not like he has Kopa, Ribery & Tigana as a brilliant and all-rounded creative threat...
 

Physiocrat

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I've posted a video of Bessonov having a good game against the peak John Barnes, but Czibor would suddenly be too much for him? I wonder why you don't have any reservations about Gerets facing Ribery & Brehme in that case. I'd actually rate Bessonov higher defensively (with Gerets having an edge attacking-wise).
Will have a watch of that. I really like Barnes but Czibor is a level above especially at international level. I was also never a huge fan of Ribery so not concerned about him against Gerets.

My main point in my previous post was that Der Kaiser is in his complete element, more so than Xavi - that point still stands
 

harms

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Xavi will do ok here although a better one touch passer at DM would be more ideal such as Senna (I know they block each other) Tigana is a good fit and adds physicality. Xavi did well in the relatively direct Euro 2008 side but I'm not sure it would be as direct as this side.
And, by the way, I'm not at all sure that Senna is a better one-touch or any amount of touch passer than Deschamps. He's usually seen as a hard-working non-entity in those drafts, which is understandable if you compare him to Rijkaard or even more fancy players like Voronin/Cerezo, but he was a brilliant passer and very quick passer as well.


There's also Sjor's compilation vs United somewhere, I'll post it when I'll find it.

 
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Jim Beam

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I was very wary of my wording so I’ll post again. Beckenbauer’s penetrative passing, dribbling etc. contributes to the result, but it doesn’t really stop Xavi or others from playing their game. When Xavi is at the top of his game, the opposition’s midfield is completely negated - not by his attacking or defensive skills, but for a simple reason that they don’t see the ball.
Yeah harms, now tell me what happens if Xavi isn't on top his game here? What will happen in this game?
 

Jim Beam

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As you know if Robson, Bastian (who did it by himself) and Beckenbauer can't slow him down, who will?
 

harms

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Yeah harms, now tell me what happens if Xavi isn't on top his game here? What will happen in this game?
Well, we're going in circles here. I think that with Ribery and Kopa helping, they'll have enough options to outplay your midfield trio, keeping the ball with us at most times. You think differently, which is fair enough. If he wouldn't be at the top of his game, the opposition will see more of the ball than they would've when Xavi was at his best, that's quite obvious.
 

Jim Beam

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Well, we're going in circles here. I think that with Ribery and Kopa helping, they'll have enough options to outplay your midfield trio, keeping the ball with us at most times. You think differently, which is fair enough. If he wouldn't be at the top of his game, the opposition will see more of the ball than they would've when Xavi was at his best, that's quite obvious.
No, we would let Xavi pass until going in our half, you having about 60+ possession and kill you on the counter.

Heynckes style. :o
 

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@Invictus What do you make of Der Keiser's role? It reminded me of one of your sides built around him
I like it a lot, reckon that might actually be very close to the type of role he would reprise in the contemporary game because he can act as a hybrid defender/conduit/midfielder/playmaker and have a major impact on the team. The overall dynamics of Robson (slightly poorer man's Matthäus) — Schweinstger — Beckenbauer are pretty sound as well...tons of industry, organisational nous and penetrative ability in there, with Schweinsteiger acting as an optimal buffer between Robson and Beckenbauer considering he often single-handedly balanced/stabilized Bayern and Germany's midfield. On the other hand, Bepo/harms' midfield is quite good in an understand way, too — a bit more direct than what Xavi was typically used to, but Xavi will have more freedom to move around here and he's intelligent enough to maximize the potential of Tigana's tireless runs from the deep — to be honest, I like the tandem because Xavi + needle midfielder like Iniesta/Rivelino/Laudrup in some sort of ultra-high possession setup gets tiresome after a while! :lol: