I think people are overreacting. Yes losing 4 games in our 6 opening games of season does look bad, but there is no shame losing away to Bayern and Arsenal at all. While Brighton simply beats us all the times so its not something totally unexpected. People could argue we should at least get a draw at White Hart Lane, but no shame in losing away to any top 6 teams in the league, it could happen to any team bar City.
The "OK Calm Down Everyone, We'll Be Fine" Thread
- Thread starter bosnian_red
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People just look at results now and numbers. There’s no context, there’s no understanding, in the match day thread you could tell some people weren’t even watching the game yesterday, it’s like a Samaritans help line in there for people to vent and moan. We have a fanbase who say they want to see a different style of football whilst simultaneously wanting it yesterday, who want more possession but want us to be direct and high risk, who want Bruno sold, Rashford sold, ETH sacked, Onana is a write off, Martinez is average and too small again, Casemiro was always terrible but just played with Kroos and Modric, it’s the full cycle completing after a long period without winning and the RAWK transformation is upon us. Maybe we and Glazers deserve each other.
I think the tough start to the season can’t be overstated. But for me the fact as you say that we’ve shown fight in the last game when all had written us off is commendable. Even if we still lost.
Words like context, patience and hindsight come to mind when I read some peoples comments and while I can understand the frustrations, I’d rather not add to the negativity without trying to add something positive too.
For me we’ve yet to see the best of new signings and due to this the capacity of the team when it’s up and running. We are still finding the patterns, form and confidence to play well, and then win. Never mind to win when we’re not playing well.
I’d normally say proper assessment takes a couple months at least. Definitely with all the moving variables the manager has to contend with in comparison to his peers.
Words like context, patience and hindsight come to mind when I read some peoples comments and while I can understand the frustrations, I’d rather not add to the negativity without trying to add something positive too.
For me we’ve yet to see the best of new signings and due to this the capacity of the team when it’s up and running. We are still finding the patterns, form and confidence to play well, and then win. Never mind to win when we’re not playing well.
I’d normally say proper assessment takes a couple months at least. Definitely with all the moving variables the manager has to contend with in comparison to his peers.
Injuries
Mason
Antony
Sale
VAR blunders
All with in 5-6 matches of the season.
If we were given a penalty at Spurs or if the goal was allowed at Arsenal, we would be talking of a title challenge .
Fine margins. I always think things will even out over the season. Have some fecking patience
Mason
Antony
Sale
VAR blunders
All with in 5-6 matches of the season.
If we were given a penalty at Spurs or if the goal was allowed at Arsenal, we would be talking of a title challenge .
Fine margins. I always think things will even out over the season. Have some fecking patience
I'm normally not one for panic/overreactions/etc. but I'm not going to lie and say I think we'll be just fine. We absolutely have had an injury crisis, but I also don't see an obvious spot of improvement even when everyone is healthy right now. The fact is we don't have a defining trait as a side to lean on when everything else is failing. We aren't extremely pacey or powerful as a team, we aren't very technical overall, and we don't outwork other sides either. Our squad is a blob of contrasting styles of players, and the manager seems stuck in between how he wants to play as well.
Even last year, for as toothless as we were scoring goals often times we could rely on being rock solid through our spine with Case/Varane/Licha.
Even last year, for as toothless as we were scoring goals often times we could rely on being rock solid through our spine with Case/Varane/Licha.
Believe me bro I am tryingCome on now. Show some optimism mate. We are getting there
I do like the look of Hojlund, Casemiro was better last night and we do need a lot of injuries to get resolved. It's the defending and conceding goals, we look hopeless at stopping it.Put it this way. Name me a team in the premier league (other than City) that wouldn't struggle with 12 first team players out.Believe me bro I am trying
Bayern were bringing on Coman and Muller, we had people in here begging for Hannibal to come on. We'll get better don't worry too much.
Over the years we used to laugh over RAWK posts and threads there. The deluded optimism even at the time of their darkest hours. At times those posts were funny, but more often than not bad. Then many posts here incorrectly started being labeled by others as RAWK posts just cause they were bad, to the point that people have forgotten what a RAWK post/thread is.
A RAWK post/thread is a post/threat where the posters imagine really good but completely unfounded scenarios based on nothing more than blind hope. Like the OP, who is also sure that Antony, Mount and Onana will come good.
So yes, this is a very RAWKish thread. Of course, it does not make it necessary a bad thread. Just that it makes a particularly deluded one.
A RAWK post/thread is a post/threat where the posters imagine really good but completely unfounded scenarios based on nothing more than blind hope. Like the OP, who is also sure that Antony, Mount and Onana will come good.
So yes, this is a very RAWKish thread. Of course, it does not make it necessary a bad thread. Just that it makes a particularly deluded one.
Just keep ETH. That’s what’s most important. No one else will do it better and Erik actually seem to be able to tackle both media and bad egg players. Continue to support him during transfer windows and give the man a break.
Dunno, it's better than this kind of smug condescension if we're honest.
Bullshit and probably wum.
Antony? Where the feck did I say Antony would come good
Sorry if I'm not jumping on the panic train after 1 month when we are in an injury crisis. And yeah, Onana has proven he's a quality goalkeeper.
Shit post, you're better than that.
I don't really see the cause for significant optimism. Injuries should start to clear up but none of the players we are missing are particularly game changers for us.
Varane will improve the defence but we know he'll get injured again within a couple of games.
Shaw and Wan Bissaka are out long term. Dalot isn't good enough.
We've no idea when Antony and Sancho will come back. Neither are anything special but combined with our best fullbacks being out it's a large part of the team (FB and RW) that is going to be weak for a while.
Amrabat is an unknown. Unlikely to hit the ground running in the PL.
It's going to be a long season chasing the top 6.
Varane will improve the defence but we know he'll get injured again within a couple of games.
Shaw and Wan Bissaka are out long term. Dalot isn't good enough.
We've no idea when Antony and Sancho will come back. Neither are anything special but combined with our best fullbacks being out it's a large part of the team (FB and RW) that is going to be weak for a while.
Amrabat is an unknown. Unlikely to hit the ground running in the PL.
It's going to be a long season chasing the top 6.
The midfield is literally game changing for us. Casemiro is struggling as he can't cover for a complete 0 off the ball like Eriksen and it makes him look much worse. We've had bad luck in big games this season, while also being incapable of rotating between games due to injuries nor during games. The Arsenal game swung massively towards them as we had no sub for Eriksen. Amrabat makes a huge difference as he's an actual DLP. Mount will be a big difference too, if nothing he'll still bring depth and pressing (though I think he'll be good for us and hope to see him on the right).
We've had the shot show of everything coming at once. The scandals dropping the morale which was already fragile due to the sale, the focused injuries on certain areas rather then spread in a covetable way, bad luck with big decisions, bad fixtures during this period.... it's a small period with it all going against us, but it passes as it always does. Tends to pass with injuries easing and fixture difficulty easing, which it is now.
We have a great chance at qualification from our CL group (Galatasaray and copenhagen drawing the opening game is a big plus), and it's the first month of the season. We'll be fine.
We don't know whether Amrabat will make a huge difference or none at all. Better players than him have struggled in the PL. It won't change that Casemiro's legs have gone.
I'm not as down on Mount as others, I'd play him at 10 and move Bruno to some kind of inside right role. I'd hope for improvement there.
Casemiro's legs haven't gone. He's still a quality player. He didn't fall off a cliff. He just can't cover quite like he used to, which has a massive impact up against a player like Musiala, and partnering someone like Eriksen. And it absolutely will change next to amrabat. Amrabat has bundles of energy, is a natural in deep areas, knows how to cover players and is easily far better than Eriksen in that role. Where he might not be as good as Eriksen is his passing when he gets the ball, but amrabat is much more press resistant, and will in all likelihood be our most reliable passer, just not a particularly creative one. Decent progressor, but more than anything a reliable guy in the deep phase. Whether he shows the same level in the prem remains to be seen, but he's not a shit player. We know what type of player he is, and he slots in very easily which tends to help players adapting. And not only that ... literally any natural defensive minded midfielder would be a massive improvement on Eriksen in terms of supporting casemiro. Eriksen is a 0 off the ball these days. Especially playing in successive games, not being able to be rotated.. sometimes you just need rotation options. We haven't had any of this. The worst case outcome for this transfer (ignoring a season ending injury) is still a big plus for the squad.
Well you are not wrong that the results are not too different to the corresponding fixtures last season. Also of course we have had a terrible run of injries so far this season.
But there are areas of concern for me even so this early on:
a) The players we have bought in. Of coruse some havent even played or barely played yet and its far too early to judge, but I was only excited about Hoijlund as a signing this summer from a £200m spend and nothing seen so far with the other players has been a surprise so far, almost expected tbh
b) The positions we didnt sign. Not upgrading our cb options whatever the circumstances with moving players on was a huge mistake and is already costing us results with Varanes contining niggle. I also think not signing a second young CF option will prove to be an error over the season., There are other areas and cant do everthing at once, bt they were for me critical squad signings and they will be costly mistakes this year.
c) The alarming dip in form or fitness of some of our older players. We ave seen it with Van Persie before who seemed to have his Indian smmer here and then declined. Casemeiro, Varane, Eriksen...big concerns there decline could be terminal rather than temporary
s) This is the biggest one for me. Ole, Mourinho both had first seasons of success and it looked like we were moving in the right direction. Then the next season we were dreadfl, the players seeme to down tools, wor rate and body language were awful....big players like Fernandes and Rashford were awful for large parts of the season, there wasa also a sgn of toxic energy betwee certain players and the manager. Some of our off field problems, press reports, body language and the form of some of the big player sso far. Its showign signs already of decending that way.
For me Burnley is a huge game and a possible turnign point with our fixtures and players returning but a couple mor ebad results which are in fixtures we wre winning last season.......we could be in serious trouble again for the season becomng another second season under a new manager that is farcical
Michael Laudrup was the commentator on danish TV, when we played against München. He said that in somewhere between 1-3 months United will look much different from now, and will be much better. I have always trusted his opinions football wise as he provides some excellent analysis. So I am cautiously optimistic about the future, even if the immediate future will be difficult.
Totally mate you've pinpointed the exact reason United are doing badly. We should all be just as miserable as you, and sack every manager after 6 weeks, then we'll be even better than Liverpool.
We'll be 'fine' in the sense that we're not gonna get relegated or anything. We'll always be 'fine.'
We're just not gonna win anything or finish in a CL spot, which is frustrating.
We're just not gonna win anything or finish in a CL spot, which is frustrating.
Building a football structure that is in charge of transfers and sacking underperforming managers before the entire season is ruined would actually be a great idea. A bit like how any other club operates nowadays.
Or we can continue adjusting the entire purpose of Man United as a worshipping temple of mediocre managers while the gap with teams like City continues to increase. While ‘being fine’.
You cannot categorically say that at this stage in the season thus why threads like this exist because people overreact and every bad point is a crisis.
I don't blame the panicked, the vortex of mediocrity we exist in does a number on cognition.
I feel very confident he will be spot on. The signs of improvement are visible. If we can keep our players healthy, it’s no doubt we will win matches and be very competitive.
We have a piss easy run coming so I expect us to grab some unconvincing wins which will alleviate the pressure from Ten Hag a little bit before getting humiliated again by the first decent team we face and we resume our cycle.
Of course, any negative result in that coming easy run will be hilarious but won't be surprising for the current United.
Of course, any negative result in that coming easy run will be hilarious but won't be surprising for the current United.
Some here have convinced themselves Ten Hag is gonna be United's savior and the new Alex Ferguson so it's hard for them to come to the conclusion he's clearly not what they thought him to be. They won't admit it because they put too much effort into defending him and believing he's gonna save United, and they probably don't know where we go from here if he fails and gets sacked. For them he's basically their last resort.
From that view I get why they relentlessly keep on defending him. What I don't get is them bullying anyone who isn't delusional like them.
We have a starting 11 of injured or suspended players. I think we’ll come on in the 2nd half of the season and secure champions league football and scrape thru to another FA cup final.
Liverpool played 63 matches in 2021-2022 then 5 preseason matches across the globe before 2022-2023. Looked a shell of themselves to start the season 4-4-4 and also lost 4-1 away to start their CL campaign. Eventually they figured things out and started playing like themselves.
I know it's not exactly the same situation but I hope we can get some results soon to knock back the sharks for a bit and let things settle. But we all know that won't ever happen.
Different standards for different clubs:
I know it's not exactly the same situation but I hope we can get some results soon to knock back the sharks for a bit and let things settle. But we all know that won't ever happen.
Different standards for different clubs:
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I’ve come the realisation these players need the presence of Varane to give them a confidence boost. Now he is back, watch the confidence and some semblance of self belief return into the team.
Im sure it has been pointed out before, but you compare the 5 league games we have played this year to the results from last season, we are only a point back due to losing against Spurs away, rather than the 2-2 draw last season.
We have a serviceable striker in Hojland this year.
When Mount, Mainoo and Amrabat are fit, we have genuine competition in midfield.
Just need a win against Burnley to get us going.
We have a serviceable striker in Hojland this year.
When Mount, Mainoo and Amrabat are fit, we have genuine competition in midfield.
Just need a win against Burnley to get us going.
a) Understand there might be some early concern there, but you've got to give new players chances and some time to adapt. Its been said many times but Evra and Vidic have had terrible 6 months here in the beginning, and then they went on to become our key players for many years. Apart from Hojlund, who is apparently most exciting out of this lot, we've got to give chances for the likes of Mount, Amrabat, Onana etc to take their time and adapt into this team. They could be good or bad signings, we just don't know yet.
b) Agree, but thats all down to Maguire refusing to leave, isn't it? Maybe we could have pay up Maguire extra 10m to asked him to leave, but I think we are running tight of budget, having spend around 400m over past 2 summer.
c) Agree there is concern on decline of of our ageing players, but we've got to be have faith in our young midfielders too, and the one we've just bought. Maybe the likes of Mainoo, Hansen-Aaroen, and Gore could replace Casemiro and Eriksen one day. Maybe Amrabat would be ideal replacement for one of them too.
e) I think we will need to wait and see. We almost beat Arsenal remember if not for the inch-offside disallowed goal and the defensive howler in the end, and we did put up a good fight against Bayern away too, and almost got a good result out of it.
I'll be confident when we can consistently strings 10 passes in a row, with players knowing where to run and where to pass. That's all. I don't really care about pts.
And define fine? Top 5 Finish? Top 4? Challenging?
I don't think this team will ever challenge for the title in its current condition, even if we're 100% fit. The tactical and personal errors is too glaring to build consistently. Rashford and Bruno being the biggest rabbit in the limelight with their inability to keep the ball and pass as a well functioning unit.
So Unless I see total improvement in mentality on Rashford and Bruno started to get dropped for more technical players, we'll be going nowhere. Streaks of lucky win with brilliant performances is the best we can hope for. It's not progress, it's playing the dice. Mind you if we dropped Bruno, we might have teething problem at first but at the long run we'll be building a solid foundation for ETH brand of football. I'd personally feel we might as well make this season another transition and dropped everyone not capable of technical football. It doesn't looks like we're winning anything anyway
And define fine? Top 5 Finish? Top 4? Challenging?
I don't think this team will ever challenge for the title in its current condition, even if we're 100% fit. The tactical and personal errors is too glaring to build consistently. Rashford and Bruno being the biggest rabbit in the limelight with their inability to keep the ball and pass as a well functioning unit.
So Unless I see total improvement in mentality on Rashford and Bruno started to get dropped for more technical players, we'll be going nowhere. Streaks of lucky win with brilliant performances is the best we can hope for. It's not progress, it's playing the dice. Mind you if we dropped Bruno, we might have teething problem at first but at the long run we'll be building a solid foundation for ETH brand of football. I'd personally feel we might as well make this season another transition and dropped everyone not capable of technical football. It doesn't looks like we're winning anything anyway
If we hire back Rangnick or whoever the best name available, and his first order was to sell Rashford and Bruno.
What do you think will happen? Serious question.
Do you have some examples of clubs sacking managers every 3 months and coming out better for it? That doesn't sound like the actions of a well run organization that knows what it's doing.
You know what? Don't bother answering. I should have stopped reading your idiotic posts after you pretended to know what a standard deviation was.
I think yes we have to have patience and give time to the new signings butjust from a personal point of view I dont have faith in new signings I dont rate, that istnt just referring to this window bt many others under different managers, even under Alex Ferguson. Wont jdge new players until been here a while but dont have faith in most signed the lsat two smmers. I do however have faith in some of our youngsters.
On point (b) thogh I disagree. It played a part obviosly when t happened with Maguire, but this window is similar to last summer for me. It wasn just failure to move on players and bring revene. Not only in cases do I think we bought the wrong players, I think we over spent on nearly every signing, even within the crrent climate. We spent abot £100m on Mont and Onana and they may go on to be good players, but look at what other clubs around us in the leage spent on good keepers this summer, look at some other midfield deals were also done by clubs around us in the league as well as other options availabel this summer.
ALso dont forget we turned down a bid for Mcominay, even f it was low....that wold have bought a centre back and we could have spent £20m or so less on similar transfers this summer.
It seems or planning was go for premier targets, then try and sell players, then go for other options.....it was all a bit one thing at a time and if and of these three buildign blocks ddnt work (which they didnt) the while thing goes into dissaray, our transfer bsiness has simply been poor for some time and I fear this is yet another summer being the case, a big reason why we need faith in a couple of youngsters
I think once players become available , we start getting a couple of results and new players bed in properly we will see a completely different team.
F**k this hysteria nonsense, it’s like people are letting the media tail wag their emotional dog. People need to take a step back.
“But it’s Manchester United” , “But he’s spent 400 million”… Yadda yadda yadda meaningless nonsense.
How has spewing out those sayings helped the last 10 years?
“That doesn’t mean we don’t point out when ETH is doing things wrong”. Nobody said it doesn’t, but people are losing their sh*t and letting “worst number of defeats Since Jesus Christ” hyperbolic sh*t get them riled up.
There are serious issues a manager can’t control. These are issues that were here long before he joined. I’m not repeating the issues because if you don’t know them, you aren’t really paying attention.
The Sancho situation is a prime example of how some people have tried to spin it as a problem caused by the manager. The player is a dud. He hasn’t trained properly and even after the guts of a year of pampering he’s still a child. Even if ETH hadn’t said what he said about his training he still wouldn’t be available because he still wouldn’t be working hard enough to warrant a starting spot. So why are people saying the manager should of handled it better? Is it far better if Sancho is still not playing but not whining on twitter?
I will tell you why. Because this idea that managers are responsible for everything is a nonsense idea peddled by media and players/pundits (who are all too happy to make managers solely responsible when players aren’t performing). You never consistently hear “the players are a disgrace”. Like the season Ranieri won the league and his team capitulated the next season, that wasn’t his fault but he got sacked.
Our teams regularly, under all managers, look like they haven’t been coached a day in their lives. This is clearly a player issue and a player culture issue. You can’t keep saying “well clearly the manager isn’t up to it” when we know that there are many players who consistently aren’t up for it. Managers can’t make players who fall apart under pressure not fall apart under pressure.
Managers shouldn’t be just picking who the club signs. That’s on the club for not having an actual functional transfer infrastructure. Managers don’t decide on contracts or transfer fees, that’s our moronic club who keep making mistakes that allows other clubs and signed players make a mug of us.
United are particularly adept at hiding behind managers. So ETH wanted Greenwood back? Really? That’s why the club kept him? Why didn’t the club take its own moral stance? Why would ETH say “ok we will integrate the player into the team”? His job is to manage the squad , we needed strikers and last year uniteds solution was Weghorst. You do the maths. The club wanted Greenwood back and had its fallguy in the manager.
Im just sick of managers being the goto rage targets. It’s pathetic
F**k this hysteria nonsense, it’s like people are letting the media tail wag their emotional dog. People need to take a step back.
“But it’s Manchester United” , “But he’s spent 400 million”… Yadda yadda yadda meaningless nonsense.
How has spewing out those sayings helped the last 10 years?
“That doesn’t mean we don’t point out when ETH is doing things wrong”. Nobody said it doesn’t, but people are losing their sh*t and letting “worst number of defeats Since Jesus Christ” hyperbolic sh*t get them riled up.
There are serious issues a manager can’t control. These are issues that were here long before he joined. I’m not repeating the issues because if you don’t know them, you aren’t really paying attention.
The Sancho situation is a prime example of how some people have tried to spin it as a problem caused by the manager. The player is a dud. He hasn’t trained properly and even after the guts of a year of pampering he’s still a child. Even if ETH hadn’t said what he said about his training he still wouldn’t be available because he still wouldn’t be working hard enough to warrant a starting spot. So why are people saying the manager should of handled it better? Is it far better if Sancho is still not playing but not whining on twitter?
I will tell you why. Because this idea that managers are responsible for everything is a nonsense idea peddled by media and players/pundits (who are all too happy to make managers solely responsible when players aren’t performing). You never consistently hear “the players are a disgrace”. Like the season Ranieri won the league and his team capitulated the next season, that wasn’t his fault but he got sacked.
Our teams regularly, under all managers, look like they haven’t been coached a day in their lives. This is clearly a player issue and a player culture issue. You can’t keep saying “well clearly the manager isn’t up to it” when we know that there are many players who consistently aren’t up for it. Managers can’t make players who fall apart under pressure not fall apart under pressure.
Managers shouldn’t be just picking who the club signs. That’s on the club for not having an actual functional transfer infrastructure. Managers don’t decide on contracts or transfer fees, that’s our moronic club who keep making mistakes that allows other clubs and signed players make a mug of us.
United are particularly adept at hiding behind managers. So ETH wanted Greenwood back? Really? That’s why the club kept him? Why didn’t the club take its own moral stance? Why would ETH say “ok we will integrate the player into the team”? His job is to manage the squad , we needed strikers and last year uniteds solution was Weghorst. You do the maths. The club wanted Greenwood back and had its fallguy in the manager.
Im just sick of managers being the goto rage targets. It’s pathetic
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We are trying to implement things to our game and if we are successful at doing it, it will only be a gain for us in the long-term. I guess that's what he's seeing, parts of what can become a bigger picture.
There seems to be this internal struggle at United, when the team is not playing well, to revert to our comfort zone and focus and band-aid solutions for short-term gains. Solskjaer whole tenure was practically based on this notion that there's not much need to force great on pitch changes. It helped him survive at the club far more than his managerial skills would have probably allowed him if that wasn't the case, but everyone and his dog could tell you that we weren't really going nowhere. The bigger the changes, the greater the risks.
Other than that, it's always nice to hear Laudrup's opinions. The best playmaker i've watched in my lifetime.
We’re decimated with injuries as has been said, and our opening fixtures have been somewhat tricky. Arsenal away, Spurs away and Bayern away in the first six games is a fairly difficult start (I’d argue Spurs are still a pretty decent side despite last season), but these things themselves out as we’ll go on a run of much easier fixtures for a while. The hardest CL game in the group is out the way and we can focus on beating Galatasaray and Copenhagen, hopefully getting at least 10 points from those 4 games.
I think we’ll look much better a month or so from now when we have players back.
I think we’ll look much better a month or so from now when we have players back.
That's a good comparison, we had the world cup last season as well, which added to players' work load. This is why the heavy preseason schedule was alarming.