The Overlap - Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

[Dion]

The team talk at half time was about whoever wants to play can play, get your hand up if you don't want to play, made a few changes

Exactly…
That reads out as he made changes due to players putting their hands up. That’s how a lot of people read it too. Dunno why you’re acting as if I’m in the minority here.
If you follow up the bit about putting hands up with immediately mentioning “I made a few changes”. A normal person would think the meaning was you made subs due to players putting their hands up and not wanting to play. The fact you’re saying Mitten clarifies what happens tells you a lot of people thought Ole meant players asked to be subbed. Otherwise why would he need to clarify it? And if you didn’t know Mitten and Ole were close (I didn’t until this thread) why would you perceive what Mitten said as anything but a contradiction.

I mean you’ve got numerous people in this thread and online who came to the same conclusion.

And yet you posted that Mitten should "wind his neck in" when presented with evidence to the contrary.

The statement was ambiguous, which is the point. When presented with an ambiguous statement that can be interpreted one of three ways (either people asked to come off, or people wanted to come on, or a combination) it's nonsense to 1) jump to the worst conclusion, especially when there's evidence that Rashford was actually injured that game and 2) then tell people to "wind their neck in" when they clarify the situation, especially when you admit yourself you had no idea how close Mitten and Solskjaer were.

 

[Dion]

He basically did. He said he asked them if you want to come of raise your hand so he made changes based on that.

He literally didn't.
He said two things
1) Asked who wanted to come on
2) Asked players who didn't want to play to raise their hands

From those two things he said he made changes. Any combination of those 2 statements leads directly into the third making sense and that's why it was nonsense people jumping to conclusions (especially while trying to make excuses for McTominay) when the statement itself was so vague. Only your own personal biases against the players involved could make it seem a definitive statement.

 

[lsd]

He basically did. He said he asked them if you want to come of raise your hand so he made changes based on that.

When you have to put basically into that statement you know it's a lie but you just want to push your agenda.

He has clearly said he subbed Rashford as he was injured and Mctominey for tactical reasons. They did not put their hands up and all to come off.

 

[Eriku]

I lose respect for Ole every time he speaks. All he does is throw others under the bus to save face, he's a pure snake. No wonder our dressing room had a lot of backstabbing while he was here. It starts from the leadership and trickles down.

Pure snake

Hard to believe some people on here really are United fans.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I lose respect for Ole every time he speaks. All he does is throw others under the bus to save face, he's a pure snake. No wonder our dressing room had a lot of backstabbing while he was here. It starts from the leadership and trickles down.

What the feck are you on about?

 

[Dion]

What the feck are you on about?

It's mad that someone can watch an interview where his big takeaway was "I knew it was time to try and be more than we were and I wasn't good enough" and come out with shit like this.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Pure snake

Hard to believe some people on here really are United fans.

Spoiler: Solid Snake

Spoiler: Liquid Snake

Spoiler: Old Snake

Spoiler: Actual Snake

Spoiler: Pure Snake

 

[DJ_21]

He literally didn't.
He said two things
1) Asked who wanted to come on
2) Asked players who didn't want to play to raise their hands

From those two things he said he made changes. Any combination of those 2 statements leads directly into the third making sense and that's why it was nonsense people jumping to conclusions (especially while trying to make excuses for McTominay) when the statement itself was so vague. Only your own personal biases against the players involved could make it seem a definitive statement.

Is that not the same thing though? The players who wanted to come on would have replaced the players who didn’t want to play anymore?

 

[DJ_21]

When you have to put basically into that statement you know it's a lie but you just want to push your agenda.

He has clearly said he subbed Rashford as he was injured and Mctominey for tactical reasons. They did not put their hands up and all to come off.

They all should have got took of anyway and none of them should still be at the club now. I remember when Ole said he’d outlast the players and a lot of them wouldn’t be there the year after…

 

[Dion]

Is that not the same thing though? The players who wanted to come on would have replaced the players who didn’t want to play anymore?

Or they replaced players who were 1) playing poorly, 2) injured...

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It's mad that someone can watch an interview where his big takeaway was "I knew it was time to try and be more than we were and I wasn't good enough" and come out with shit like this.

Yeah, bizarre.

You can say what you will about Ole's managerial qualities/abilities, but to accuse him of throwing people under the bus in order to protect his reputation is...just bizarre (again).

 

[DJ_21]

Or they replaced players who were 1) playing poorly, 2) injured...

They all played poorly Either way you look at it the players were cowards and let the manager down. He even said some was in tears at half time. We really want that mentality in our team?

 

[Eriku]

Spoiler: Solid Snake

Spoiler: Liquid Snake

Spoiler: Old Snake

Spoiler: Actual Snake

Spoiler: Pure Snake

I appreciate the effort that went into that!

 

[Gator Nate]

Spoiler: Solid Snake

Spoiler: Liquid Snake

Spoiler: Old Snake

Spoiler: Actual Snake

Spoiler: Pure Snake

 

[Ludens the Red]

And yet you posted that Mitten should "wind his neck in" when presented with evidence to the contrary.

The statement was ambiguous, which is the point. When presented with an ambiguous statement that can be interpreted one of three ways (either people asked to come off, or people wanted to come on, or a combination) it's nonsense to 1) jump to the worst conclusion, especially when there's evidence that Rashford was actually injured that game and 2) then tell people to "wind their neck in" when they clarify the situation, especially when you admit yourself you had no idea how close Mitten and Solskjaer were.

Except that’s not what happened is it. Because that was my initial response to the tweet without that knowledge.

 

[Dion]

Except that’s not what happened is it. Because that was my initial response to the tweet without that knowledge.

I think you've misread the meaning of that post. The "presented with evidence to the contrary" is referring to Mitten telling people it wasn't what they thought it was with regards to people asking to come off. When that happened you immediately suggested he should wind his neck in despite the fact you didn't know anything about Mitten. This alone should have been reason enough for you to reconsider your stance without lashing out because it challenged your preconceived ideas, as the old quote Ted Lasso lifted from someone who wasn't Walt Whitman goes; "Be curious, not judgemental". Knowing what you don't know is important. There's a lesson in being open minded in there.

 

[Ludens the Red]

I think you've misread the meaning of that post. The "presented with evidence to the contrary" is referring to Mitten telling people it wasn't what they thought it was with regards to people asking to come off. When that happened you immediately suggested he should wind his neck in despite the fact you didn't know anything about Mitten. This alone should have been reason enough for you to reconsider your stance without lashing out because it challenged your preconceived ideas, as the old quote Ted Lasso lifted from someone who wasn't Walt Whitman goes; "Be curious, not judgemental". Knowing what you don't know is important. There's a lesson in being open minded in there.

As I’ve said. It’s a view and reaction shared by many because that’s the normal reaction. The tweet read as a challenge to what Ole said.
It simply isn’t a remit of mine to have knowledge of every relationship between a journalist and manager especially as mitten made no mention of it in the tweet. So please, spare me the sanctimonious tripe.

 

[Dion]

As I’ve said. It’s a view and reaction shared by many because that’s the normal reaction. The tweet read as a challenge to what Ole said.

That's not the normal reaction though, it's your reaction and the reaction of some other reactionary people. You cannot wear ignorance like a badge of pride.

It simply isn’t a remit of mine to have knowledge of every relationship between a journalist and manager especially as mitten made no mention of it in the tweet. So please, spare me the sanctimonious tripe.

Nobody said it was, but by default that automatically makes it not your remit to out of hand dismiss what a journalist is saying. So please, next time, spare us all the uninformed, toxic, reactionary dismissiveness for subjects you admit you know nothing about.

 

[Plant0x84]

The fact we have two players who burst into tears and asked to come off during a game still here, is surely the biggest thing to emerge.

[@AndyMitten] And another thing. This suggestion that players put their hands up not to play the second half at Watford is not true. They all wanted to play. Scott McTominay and Marcus Rashford were subbed. Ole’s decision. Rashford had been injured. Scott wasn’t playing well. That’s it

 

[tombombadil]

Absolutely loved the interview. Lots of fun banter and lots of insider knowledge.

Good times.

 

[Malons]

[@AndyMitten] And another thing. This suggestion that players put their hands up not to play the second half at Watford is not true. They all wanted to play. Scott McTominay and Marcus Rashford were subbed. Ole’s decision. Rashford had been injured. Scott wasn’t playing well. That’s it

Who to believe, Ole himself or a journalist those who fear they were going to be identified as being the ones in the story that they've leaked the info to?

What reason would Ole have to lie like that? Moreover, who has most motivation to lie, Ole or the usual the usual PR obsessed merchants in our dressing room?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Oh yeah.

"The name's Solskjær."

* Presses EMP thingy. All of City's oil money vanishes from their accounts, Pep is disintegrated and replaced by Stuart Pearce. *

"Welcome to the title race."

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I appreciate the effort that went into that!

Thanks, mate.

[I apparently used an "inappropriate meme image", though. Odd warning to get, but whatever.]

 

[Plant0x84]

Who to believe, Ole himself or a journalist those who fear they were going to be identified as being the ones in the story that they've leaked the info to?

What reason would Ole have to lie like that? Moreover, who has most motivation to lie, Ole or the usual the usual PR obsessed merchants in our dressing room?

Solskjaer didn’t actually say anybody put their hands up to not play. All he said was ‘I made a couple of changes’.
People believing what they want to believe here, engineering another excuse to shit on Rashford.

 

[Dion]

Who to believe, Ole himself or a journalist those who fear they were going to be identified as being the ones in the story that they've leaked the info to?

What reason would Ole have to lie like that? Moreover, who has most motivation to lie, Ole or the usual the usual PR obsessed merchants in our dressing room?

Are you aware of who Andy Mitten is and what his relationship to Solskjaer and Rashford is? I feel like you're missing some critical information.

 

[eire-red]

I think Ole's view on the Liverpool loss at OT highlights a lot of the challenges and issues of being Man United.

I think we all felt after that summer, where we got Sancho, Varance and Ronaldo, that this was the moment to step up and challenge. But did anyone really feel confident that was the case?

There's a constant pressure to simultaneously rebuild and also challenge. That's very hard to do. Ole admitted almost using that game as a litmus test of where we were, going toe to toe with Liverpool.

It horribly backfired, and it highlights an ultimately flawed view of what we've been doing for the past decade. It's the same thing this season, the obsession with getting Top 4. What does it even mean if we're still 20 points off the ultimate champions?

We played CL football this year and were nowhere near it after finishing 3rd. We've been in and out of the CL for the last 6/7 seasons, and getting Top 4 hasn't been anything we could point to in terms of success, other than the monetary windfall that we've ultimately wasted anyway on transfers.

It's like we suffer from this weird form of imposter syndrome, whereby any poor form exposes the players as the frauds when compared to the United greats of old, and these guys sink constantly under that pressure.

I'm not advocating for "oh, it's OK to be 6th in the table" or anything like that. But I fear that this "We are Manchester United, we should win every game" mentality needs to dial down at this moment in time.

I'm confident Ineos and 'marginal gains' Brailsford ultimately see the wood from the trees here and it's realise this is a 4/5 year project and no one season or period suddenly makes us "Manchester United" again. The club and us as fans have hung our hat on short term goals far too much in the last 10 years.

 

[Grande]

I think Ole's view on the Liverpool loss at OT highlights a lot of the challenges and issues of being Man United.

I think we all felt after that summer, where we got Sancho, Varance and Ronaldo, that this was the moment to step up and challenge. But did anyone really feel confident that was the case?

There's a constant pressure to simultaneously rebuild and also challenge. That's very hard to do. Ole admitted almost using that game as a litmus test of where we were, going toe to toe with Liverpool.

It horribly backfired, and it highlights an ultimately flawed view of what we've been doing for the past decade. It's the same thing this season, the obsession with getting Top 4. What does it even mean if we're still 20 points off the ultimate champions?

We played CL football this year and were nowhere near it after finishing 3rd. We've been in and out of the CL for the last 6/7 seasons, and getting Top 4 hasn't been anything we could point to in terms of success, other than the monetary windfall that we've ultimately wasted anyway on transfers.

It's like we suffer from this weird form of imposter syndrome, whereby any poor form exposes the players as the frauds when compared to the United greats of old, and these guys sink constantly under that pressure.

I'm not advocating for "oh, it's OK to be 6th in the table" or anything like that. But I fear that this "We are Manchester United, we should win every game" mentality needs to dial down at this moment in time.

I'm confident Ineos and 'marginal gains' Brailsford ultimately see the wood from the trees here and it's realise this is a 4/5 year project and no one season or period suddenly makes us "Manchester United" again. The club and us as fans have hung our hat on short term goals far too much in the last 10 years.

I think you are probably right that the outside expectations is a brake more than a help at this point. We should remember that a lot of the fan frustration came from the suspicion that Glazers were in fact content with 4th place to the extent that they would only strengthen the team when we were outside the CL spots. The last Ome season disproved that, they were simply completely inept at owning and running a football club.

What made me enjoy the Ole period and last season, was the fact that we started to feel more like football club again, more like the United I knew (even before 1993) and I enjoyed the small steps forward without expecting us to challenge for gold necessarily. When I was a kid, my dream was that United should at least one time be within reach of the league title, winning an FA Cup was extatic, and any European cup was a dream. It was much more enjoyable watching football then than under Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho. Expectations are for the dressing room really, in the stands it’s more a pest, and much inferior to plain hope

 

[mintyred]

Finally watched the whole interview and it’s much better that the Rooney one.

Something that’s obvious is that Ole doesn’t have a mentality of a manager. Same as the others in the room.

He doesn’t have a good tactical understanding of the game nor does he seem to understand in depth why certain things didn’t work. He chalks a lot up to “it just didn’t work out”

One thing that stood out was that he actually showed he had a good understanding of Sancho’s game, yet he never played in a way to utilise it.

Ole clearly does have a skillset it’s just not management.