The Overlap - Ole Gunnar Solskjaer

[RedDevil@84]

But I would've liked more insight on why he believed bringing him back was a good idea in the first place. Felt like a wasted chance, that's all.

Again, Ole had a veto decision to make.
The club said Ronaldo was available to move. Ole had to decide very quickly. So unless he could predict the disaster, or had a solid reason to think one of the top scorers of all time would scupper the team, he could not say no. He also mentioned that he thought the likes of Rashy, Greenwood and Sancho would benefit immensely from Ronaldo's experience and work ethic.

 

[Abhinav]

Ole is an absolute legend of the club and have a lot of respect for him. He shouldn’t probably have been made the permanent manager of the club but he has done no worse than some very decorated managers in the post SAF era. So maybe he is not as clueless as people want to believe.

 

[madzo2007]

Yeah the 2nd place season is looked upon far more fondly than it should be in my opinion. It was a lot of Bruno penalties, some really crap football outside of Europa while we managed to never lose away from home, and the springtime was just us falling behind before Greenwood/Cavani/ or Pogba came to save the day.

19-20 will always be my favorite United team of the post SAF era, just sucks that the peak of that season was spent in lockdown.

We weren't great for slightly more than half that season. The final game before Bruno signed we lost 2-0 at home to Burnley and then went unbeaten for the rest of the season, with a 3 month break in between.

 

[DJ Jeff]

We weren't great for slightly more than half that season. The final game before Bruno signed we lost 2-0 at home to Burnley and then went unbeaten for the rest of the season, with a 3 month break in between.

Yeah we were definitely bad longer than we were good that season, but when it clicked and Greenwood/Rashford/Martial/Bruno seemed to be scoring every week it was the most I've enjoyed watching United since SAF.

 

[erikcred]

Again, Ole had a veto decision to make.
The club said Ronaldo was available to move. Ole had to decide very quickly. So unless he could predict the disaster, or had a solid reason to think one of the top scorers of all time would scupper the team, he could not say no. He also mentioned that he thought the likes of Rashy, Greenwood and Sancho would benefit immensely from Ronaldo's experience and work ethic.

But we must also factor in that he was a 37 year old who would obviously not contribute defensively and who would not accept a role from the bench. So he would definitely scupper the team shape and Ole must have planned for that. I would find some insights into the behind-the-scenes discussions on this transfer quite interesting. Especially within the coaching team. Was there not even a single person who voiced some concern?

 

[Laurencio]

It's not about throwing specific people. But didn't seem very reflective. I got the impression that he doesn't seem to think that he did anything wrong. Like circumstances conspired against him all the time.

Roy pointed out the stupidity in his logic of going toe toe against City and Liverpool at OT despite Ole being aware that they are much better teams. Ole didn't agree that that was a mistake. He just kept saying that at home we must dominate etc.

Same thing with the Ronaldo signing. At no point did he seem to believe or say that was a mistake or what he'd learned from it. Just said that Ronaldo agreed to be rested a game for every 3 played and then sulked when he got rested. So the mess made by his return was all Ronaldo's fault.

With Sancho, he just brushed it off with I didn't spend time with him, so can't say anything at all beyond what his favorite position was. Like what exactly was his plan when signing him, what did he see in Sancho as a person that suggested this was a man utd player, no insight into things like that.

I don't understand this take. He more or less said they weren't ready, that they knew they had the fourth best squad and that they were lacking legs in midfield to play the way they wanted.

On Cristiano he was fairly clear that the pressure around him to play Crisriano was quite significant (Owners, Sir Alex and Cristiano himself) even when his legs couldn't cope, which made the dynamics (I assume in the dressing room) difficult. Only a few minutes later he said; "But honestly I had no trouble with Cristiano, we knew each other well - it probably would have worked out better both for him and me if he hadn't signed though. It wasn’t really until after I left things really went sour for him, there was a lot of respect between the two of us." Which is something Cristiano said in his ill-adviced interview as well.

As for Sancho, he said he came into the club with an ear infection, was in hospital for a while, struggled to find fitness and didn't really get going during the 4 months he was there. He was clear that Sancho was "the one" for everyone at the club, and that they knew he wouldn't be the kind of player to run in behind, but needed to be part of a more build up oriented system - which is what they wanted to move towards. He briefly mentioned earlier on that the squad had more players suited for counter-attacking football and that they needed someone like Rice - who he pushed for for that reason.

I think the most revealing thing he said really was how hard players these days take pundit criticism. That they shy away from difficult moments, because they are afraid of how they will be talked about, and that some of the players were devastated with "over-the-top" criticism (Pogba, Rashford and Sancho seem the obvious people here). He also mentioned that he didn't expect there to be so much mental health involved - and more or less told his pundits friends "You aren't aware of how big an impact your comments have on these lads".

At no point did I think he was throwing anyone under the buss, he was quick to defend individual players when brought up, defended Ed Woodward, the scouting team, Maguire, Cristiano - even dismissed Glazer interference and penny pinching as "just part of signing a contract and having a job with a remit".

I felt he was guarded, specifically trying to avoid saying too much and avoid pinning the blame on anyone.

 

[Sunny Jim]

Its such a shame he didnt win in Gdańsk.

 

[Alpha 1]

Would Roy Keane succeed as a United manager? He has the personality and is demanding. He did well at Sunderland in the championship obviously not so well after but what if he was given the resources and the players? The obvious concern is that he'd be too fiery for the big baby's of mordern football but he seems to have mellowed quite abit.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Would Roy Keane succeed as a United manager? He has the personality and is demanding. He did well at Sunderland in the championship obviously not so well after but what if he was given the resources and the players? The obvious concern is that he'd be too fiery for the big baby's of mordern football but he seems to have mellowed quite abit.

Definitely not, if for no other other reason that he hasn't been a manager for well over a decade. I don't think he is coming back to it now, and he would likely be quite rusty. He has even hinted at it a few times on the podcast, that he is groving pretty comfortable in the media role.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Legend.

 

[Bastian]

I really enjoyed that. Shame Keane kept talking over Ole the couple of times he was onto something interesting. Especially when he was talking about how he wanted to go toe to toe with Liverpool and City at home and Keane kept saying there's nothing wrong with soaking up pressure and hit them on the counter at home if you genuinely have a worse squad, but Ole tried to make a point there in between when he said not all of them were up for running, which they really should have gone more into.

 

[horsechoker]

I really enjoyed that. Shame Keane kept talking over Ole the couple of times he was onto something interesting. Especially when he was talking about how he wanted to go toe to toe with Liverpool and City at home and Keane kept saying there's nothing wrong with soaking up pressure and hit them on the counter at home if you genuinely have a worse squad, but Ole tried to make a point there in between when he said not all of them were up for running, which they really should have gone more into.

And you believed him?

 

[matsdf]

And you believed him?

What do you mean?

 

[Bastian]

And you believed him?

Horsey it's difficult to know where you're coming from here. As always. You echoing Keane who made that joke 3 times during the show?

I was curious whether he'd have spoken more about the players who weren't giving enough or if he'd have dissected the tactical lopsidedness of the squad further. At least he mentioned that McTominay, Fred and Matic were all reliable in that sense.

 

[horsechoker]

What do you mean?

I was trying to do the new Keane gag "and you believed him?" he says it a couple of times in the recent episode like when Ole was talking about Fergie promising to give him more minutes

 

[horsechoker]

Horsey it's difficult to know where you're coming from here. As always. You echoing Keane who made that joke 3 times during the show?

That's my job

 

[SalfordRed18]

And you believed him?

 

[Bastian]

@horsechoker

and there's your payment

 

[RedDevil@84]

And you believed him?

 

[AndyMUFC]

Enjoyed it.

I don't think the Ronaldo signing helped matters but by the sounds of it he was always going to try and play a more expansive style anyway, and I'm not sure that was ever going to do well with this same group of players. We still can't play that football now.

 

[baskinginthesun]

I don't understand this take. He more or less said they weren't ready, that they knew they had the fourth best squad and that they were lacking legs in midfield to play the way they wanted.

On Cristiano he was fairly clear that the pressure around him to play Crisriano was quite significant (Owners, Sir Alex and Cristiano himself) even when his legs couldn't cope, which made the dynamics (I assume in the dressing room) difficult. Only a few minutes later he said; "But honestly I had no trouble with Cristiano, we knew each other well - it probably would have worked out better both for him and me if he hadn't signed though. It wasn’t really until after I left things really went sour for him, there was a lot of respect between the two of us." Which is something Cristiano said in his ill-adviced interview as well.

As for Sancho, he said he came into the club with an ear infection, was in hospital for a while, struggled to find fitness and didn't really get going during the 4 months he was there. He was clear that Sancho was "the one" for everyone at the club, and that they knew he wouldn't be the kind of player to run in behind, but needed to be part of a more build up oriented system - which is what they wanted to move towards. He briefly mentioned earlier on that the squad had more players suited for counter-attacking football and that they needed someone like Rice - who he pushed for for that reason.

I think the most revealing thing he said really was how hard players these days take pundit criticism. That they shy away from difficult moments, because they are afraid of how they will be talked about, and that some of the players were devastated with "over-the-top" criticism (Pogba, Rashford and Sancho seem the obvious people here). He also mentioned that he didn't expect there to be so much mental health involved - and more or less told his pundits friends "You aren't aware of how big an impact your comments have on these lads".

At no point did I think he was throwing anyone under the buss, he was quick to defend individual players when brought up, defended Ed Woodward, the scouting team, Maguire, Cristiano - even dismissed Glazer interference and penny pinching as "just part of signing a contract and having a job with a remit".

I felt he was guarded, specifically trying to avoid saying too much and avoid pinning the blame on anyone.

He was trying to take the group down this alley but, naturally someone made an annoying badly timed joke and they burst out laughing. I was really hoping we could get more insight to this as none of them have coached or played with the younger generation in years. But, social media has really turned the tide in how footballers get their information on how they've played and how instant it is these days. And I'm sure, the bigger the club, the louder the criticism is. This is one of the moments where just let the guest talk and as the host, just listen.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I don't understand this take. He more or less said they weren't ready, that they knew they had the fourth best squad and that they were lacking legs in midfield to play the way they wanted.

On Cristiano he was fairly clear that the pressure around him to play Crisriano was quite significant (Owners, Sir Alex and Cristiano himself) even when his legs couldn't cope, which made the dynamics (I assume in the dressing room) difficult. Only a few minutes later he said; "But honestly I had no trouble with Cristiano, we knew each other well - it probably would have worked out better both for him and me if he hadn't signed though. It wasn’t really until after I left things really went sour for him, there was a lot of respect between the two of us." Which is something Cristiano said in his ill-adviced interview as well.

As for Sancho, he said he came into the club with an ear infection, was in hospital for a while, struggled to find fitness and didn't really get going during the 4 months he was there. He was clear that Sancho was "the one" for everyone at the club, and that they knew he wouldn't be the kind of player to run in behind, but needed to be part of a more build up oriented system - which is what they wanted to move towards. He briefly mentioned earlier on that the squad had more players suited for counter-attacking football and that they needed someone like Rice - who he pushed for for that reason.

I think the most revealing thing he said really was how hard players these days take pundit criticism. That they shy away from difficult moments, because they are afraid of how they will be talked about, and that some of the players were devastated with "over-the-top" criticism (Pogba, Rashford and Sancho seem the obvious people here). He also mentioned that he didn't expect there to be so much mental health involved - and more or less told his pundits friends "You aren't aware of how big an impact your comments have on these lads".

At no point did I think he was throwing anyone under the buss, he was quick to defend individual players when brought up, defended Ed Woodward, the scouting team, Maguire, Cristiano - even dismissed Glazer interference and penny pinching as "just part of signing a contract and having a job with a remit".

I felt he was guarded, specifically trying to avoid saying too much and avoid pinning the blame on anyone.

Thank the lord we still have posters here with good listening comprehension skills because this Is bang on and frankly fairly obvious for most people. There's a small selection on here, that just can't accept he was a decent manager who played our best football and they let it stop any rational thought.

 

[Strats]

And you believed him?

 

[redcucumber]

He was trying to take the group down this alley but, naturally someone made an annoying badly timed joke and they burst out laughing. I was really hoping we could get more insight to this as none of them have coached or played with the younger generation in years. But, social media has really turned the tide in how footballers get their information on how they've played and how instant it is these days. And I'm sure, the bigger the club, the louder the criticism is. This is one of the moments where just let the guest talk and as the host, just listen.

Nothing more annoying. See it often nowadays with podcasts which are typically comedians and non professional journalists and interviewers doing interviews. It's a skill.

 

[RedSky]

What are stats for Klop and Pep?

Manager​	Win %​	Loss %​	CS​	Games​	W​	D​	L​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Pts​
Pep​	73.72%​	12.97%​	128​	293​	216​	39​	38​	721​	242​	479​	687​
Klopp​	63.16%​	13.93%​	129​	323​	204​	74​	45​	692​	315​	377​	686​
Arteta​	58.39%​	25.47%​	57​	161​	94​	26​	41​	304​	174​	130​	308​
Jose​	53.76%​	18.28%​	38​	93​	50​	26​	17​	151​	86​	65​	176​
Ole​	52.58%​	19.59%​	31​	97​	51​	27​	19​	175​	105​	70​	180​
Ten Hag​	56.92%​	30.77%​	24​	65​	37​	8​	20​	95​	82​	13​	119​
LVG​	51.32%​	23.68%​	29​	76​	39​	19​	18​	111​	72​	39​	136​

Given the sheer quantity of games that Pep/Klopp and Arteta have had i've condensed some of the stats down to Per Game Ratios instead:

Manager​	CS​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Pts​
Pep​	0.4​	2.5​	0.8​	1.6​	2.3​
Klopp​	0.4​	2.1​	1.0​	1.2​	2.1​
Arteta​	0.4​	1.9​	1.1​	0.8​	1.9​
Jose​	0.4​	1.6​	0.9​	0.7​	1.9​
Ole​	0.3​	1.8​	1.1​	0.7​	1.9​
Ten Hag​	0.4​	1.5​	1.3​	0.2​	1.8​
LVG​	0.4​	1.5​	0.9​	0.5​	1.8​

Looking at the second table you can see what a machine Peps City side are. Averaging 2.5 goals a game while conceding just 0.8 per game. The other interesting note of worth is that Ole's and Artetas stats are pretty much identical. Arteta has won more games but also lost more hence the draws that Ole got equalised the points per game. Shut your eyes and don't look at Ten Hags GD ratio.

​

 

[Grande]

Manager​	Win %​	Loss %​	CS​	Games​	W​	D​	L​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Pts​
Pep​	73.72%​	12.97%​	128​	293​	216​	39​	38​	721​	242​	479​	687​
Klopp​	63.16%​	13.93%​	129​	323​	204​	74​	45​	692​	315​	377​	686​
Arteta​	58.39%​	25.47%​	57​	161​	94​	26​	41​	304​	174​	130​	308​
Jose​	53.76%​	18.28%​	38​	93​	50​	26​	17​	151​	86​	65​	176​
Ole​	52.58%​	19.59%​	31​	97​	51​	27​	19​	175​	105​	70​	180​
Ten Hag​	56.92%​	30.77%​	24​	65​	37​	8​	20​	95​	82​	13​	119​
LVG​	51.32%​	23.68%​	29​	76​	39​	19​	18​	111​	72​	39​	136​

Given the sheer quantity of games that Pep/Klopp and Arteta have had i've condensed some of the stats down to Per Game Ratios instead:

Manager​	CS​	GF​	GA​	GD​	Pts​
Pep​	0.4​	2.5​	0.8​	1.6​	2.3​
Klopp​	0.4​	2.1​	1.0​	1.2​	2.1​
Arteta​	0.4​	1.9​	1.1​	0.8​	1.9​
Jose​	0.4​	1.6​	0.9​	0.7​	1.9​
Ole​	0.3​	1.8​	1.1​	0.7​	1.9​
Ten Hag​	0.4​	1.5​	1.3​	0.2​	1.8​
LVG​	0.4​	1.5​	0.9​	0.5​	1.8​

Looking at the second table you can see what a machine Peps City side are. Averaging 2.5 goals a game while conceding just 0.8 per game. The other interesting note of worth is that Ole's and Artetas stats are pretty much identical. Arteta has won more games but also lost more hence the draws that Ole got equalised the points per game. Shut your eyes and don't look at Ten Hags GD ratio.

​

It shows what any patient person should recognize: Pep and Klopp are outliers, Arteta is much better than ‘LegoPep’ given time, Solskjær did pretty well, and Ten Hag (look at his points per game ratio against the first seasons of the others) did unusually well in his first season, while crashing backwards in the stats with this injury ridden season.

 

[Grande]

Its such a shame he didnt win in Gdańsk.

It’s such a shame about the 115.

 

[RedSky]

It shows what any patient person should recognize: Pep and Klopp are outliers, Arteta is much better than ‘LegoPep’ given time, Solskjær did pretty well, and Ten Hag (look at his points per game ratio against the first seasons of the others) did unusually well in his first season, while crashing backwards in the stats with this injury ridden season.

Depends what you quantify as first season. Klopp, Ole and Arteta joined mid way through the season. ETH had a very good start at United, but it's been a year of bad form, it's not just this season. As soon as Rashfords purple patch of form ended we've crashed and burned.

ETH's GD has always been poor, it's been a consistent issue throughout his time here. At no point has he ever managed to get a GD higher than +20, the highest in fact is +16, achieved twice.

I'd say it's pretty clear that both Ole and Jose's teams performed the best out of the United Managers with LVG and ETH being a step or two below. Anyway this is an Ole thread, lets take the ETH talk elsewhere.

 

[UnitedSofa]

Love Ole, but we needed better managing than "just be Man United"

This never happened

 

[horsechoker]

Ole's downfall came when he started to believe he was 50 Cent. There were reports of him showing up to training in a white vest and telling people he was shot 9 times. The players grew tired of him trying to do an American accent which just sounded heavily Norwegio-Mancunian.

 

[tenpoless]

Ole's downfall came when he started to believe he was 50 Cent. There were reports of him showing up to training in a white vest and telling people he was shot 9 times. The players grew tired of him trying to do an American accent which just sounded heavily Norwegio-Mancunian.

Players grew tired of him when he kept asking how to sign up to 'Cafe of the Red' on his iPad so he can defend himself against the masses, Fred in particular responded "it is something no worth, boss" but he insisted.

 

[hobbers]

Imagine just how shit our goals for and goal difference columns would look if Rashford didn't have a blip last season.

Every passing game ETH makes Ole look more and more like a managerial savant in comparison.

Ole and Jose look like respectable managerial tenures in hindsight whereas LVG and ETH get relegated to the dumpster fire of 'Dutch managers out of their depth abroad'.

 

[Andersonson]

Love the series and loved this episode

 

[Red Devil 26]

The part about him being a player -- loved it.
The part about his time being our manager -- feck me. He's either a fool or loves acting like one.

Completely agree. The segments about him as manager were painful to listen to. Ridiculously out of his depth.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

The part about him being a player -- loved it.
The part about his time being our manager -- feck me. He's either a fool or loves acting like one.

True.

 

[Malons]

A lot of focus on the Ronaldo stuff, but he's gone and so has Ole. More interesting stuff about players crying and demanding to be taken off vs Watford at half time, refusing to talk to press, refusing captaincy... aren't those lads still here?

Ronaldo didn't work, we all know that. But some of this stuff he's said relevant to the players in the dressing room today is scandalous. I honestly don't get how any of the Ronaldo stuff is the lead here. Didn't work, big ego. If you're finding that out for the first time then welcome to planet earth.

The fact we have two players who burst into tears and asked to come off during a game still here, is surely the biggest thing to emerge.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Players who refused to be the captain for a single game should be booted out of the club as soon as possible.

I find that remarkable.

 

[Insanity]

Keano's one-liners are one of the best feature of this show. There is good chemistry between all the hosts and always good rapport with guests. The 1+ hr goes by without much effort. The latest episode was good too. Loved the banter between Keano and Ole. Good insights on Ole the player, his mentality being the super sub, the Bayern goal, the team environment etc.

However, the discussion on Ole's management disappointed me. I felt there weren't enough probing questions or good followups to this answers. You didn't get much insight from that part of the show. What I would have tried to find out is:

- Ole, Sancho was chased for so long, you say that he preferred wide left, so why were we so adamant on signing him when you wanted someone to play on the right and already had Rashford as a starter on the left?

- You say Sancho was a pass and move player, but did you have other players who were capable of that type of football? If not, why was he signed when all your other players were suited for a more direct style of play?

- Ole, you wanted to play front foot, dominating football, but were your signings suited to that? Could a midfield of Fred and McTominay with DeGea, WanBissaka and Maguire in defense & Bruno and Rashford in attack suited to that style of football?

- Why didn't you recruit players who were more comfortable on the ball if you wanted to dominate?

- You say you liked Lingard, Dan James, Pereira & McTom as they could run all day; however were those players good enough to dominate?

- Why didn't you make a sub till the 100th minute in the Europa League final when you had attacking subs on your bench?

I think they dealt with him with kid gloves and didn't try to get to the bottom of the stuff.

Also, it showed how out of depth Ole was as our manager. Although, he had the passion and love for the club, he just didn't have enough tactical nous or the recruitment acumen for the job. You just can't simply decide one day that "this is Manchester United, we need to dominate" and start playing an expansive style without first getting the tools necessary to play that away. It showed tremendous naivety.

 

[MichaelRed]

I will never get used to hearing Ole drop an F bomb.

 

[Insanity]

The part about him being a player -- loved it.
The part about his time being our manager -- feck me. He's either a fool or loves acting like one.

Came across as very naive. Also, showed that he shouldn't have continued beyond the interim job.