Television The Pro Graps Thread

Randall Flagg

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He needs to pop Cena one, that would make me happy.

Cena legitimately had a go at Rock a few years back from what I can remember.
I dont anything legit has ever happened in the World of Wrestling sadly.

Even the Monteal Screwjob was a fake. Brett was in on it all the time.

Although I do seem to recall Kurt Angle getting taken out by some young lad who had some MMA experience some years ago.
 

Ekeke

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One thing I must add to this thread is that WWE signed Mistico at the end of Jan. If you dont know who he is, he's the biggest name in Mexican wrestling today and very entertaining


hopefully we see more of la mistica in the wwe than we've seen of Daniel Bryan's cattle mutilation - apparently thats not good enough for wwe programming
 

jveezy

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I'm amazed that anyone would openly admit to watching, much less enjoying, the pantomime that is WWE.
I actually didn't watch much when I was a kid during the glory days, but now more and more I find it interesting from a business perspective. Stuff like how they can build up a character to play to the crowd in a certain way and how they can then twist the character and turn him from the most likeable guy on the brand to the most hated one or how they take a villain but actually give him some legitimate wins to build up his credibility in that role, etc.

That said, it really isn't much better than an athletic soap opera (especially in recent years), and I do sometimes find myself fast forwarding through some of the lame charades they go through during the middle of a match, because you know it's just going to follow mostly the same routine, but some of the crazy moments are still worth tuning in for. From a storytelling perspective it has its own niche that makes it not exactly a scripted drama like House and not exactly a sport like football, so in a way it's interesting to see that whole dynamic play out. That said if it weren't for streaming, I'd probably never watch because I certainly wouldn't pay to watch this aside from Wrestlemania.
 

Ekeke

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There's almost as much pantomime in football these days, especially la liga and champions league matches. At least with this its supposed to be the case and doesnt try to hide it like 20-30 years ago. Cant hold a candle to MMA though obviously
 

jveezy

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There's almost as much pantomime in football these days, especially la liga and champions league matches. At least with this its supposed to be the case and doesnt try to hide it like 20-30 years ago. Cant hold a candle to MMA though obviously
Oh come on, that's a bit of an exaggeration. You can argue all you want about who has influence where, but there's still a huge gulf between the nature of an unscripted sport vs a scripted drama.
 

Ekeke

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Oh come on, that's a bit of an exaggeration. You can argue all you want about who has influence where, but there's still a huge gulf between the nature of an unscripted sport vs a scripted drama.
Its really not, almost any game in la liga and most in the champions league, if a hand touches a face even barely the player falls down like they've been hit with a flurry of straights

Its absolutely pathetic and nowhere close to being legit, so I find it funny when a football fan makes those kinds of comments.

Its better that something thats meant to be scripted, but "fake" (and safe) is a pantomime, than something which is meant to be a proper sport but is also fake and a pantomime.

One is true to itself even if you dont like what it is, the other is cheating professional athletes even if you do like what it is.
 

jveezy

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Its really not, almost any game in la liga and most in the champions league, if a hand touches a face even barely the player falls down like they've been hit with a flurry of straights

Its absolutely pathetic and nowhere close to being legit, so I find it funny when a football fan makes those kinds of comments.

Its better that something thats meant to be scripted, but "fake" (and safe) is a pantomime, than something which is meant to be a proper sport but is also fake and a pantomime.

One is true to itself even if you dont like what it is, the other is cheating professional athletes even if you do like what it is.
To me that doesn't make football a pantomime. That just makes it a legitimate game of rules that is poorly administrated. Outcomes are played out on a pitch, not chosen during a collaborative writing process. Of course we're getting into semantics here, though. I just interpreted Wibble's meaning as the difference between scripted and unscripted.
 

MUFCgal

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I dont anything legit has ever happened in the World of Wrestling sadly.

Even the Monteal Screwjob was a fake. Brett was in on it all the time.

Although I do seem to recall Kurt Angle getting taken out by some young lad who had some MMA experience some years ago.
Nah, the Montreal screwjob was totally legit.

I do remember the incident with Kurt Angle and Daniel Puder. Kurt was proper fuming that this lad showed him up in front of millions on national TV. I remember the ref even had to help out and make it look like Angle had won so he (and the WWE) wasn't embarrassed, even though Puder completely owned him on that one.
 

golden_blunder

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I would say that he's been offered huge huge money to return, which is probably worth it for them as its become very stale in the years since The Rock, Stone Cold & Kurt Angle disappeared. At this point in time they really need a good focal point, someone good on the mic to bring the fans back. The Rock is exactly what they need.
 

Boss

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I would say that he's been offered huge huge money to return, which is probably worth it for them as its become very stale in the years since The Rock, Stone Cold & Kurt Angle disappeared. At this point in time they really need a good focal point, someone good on the mic to bring the fans back. The Rock is exactly what they need.
that's spot on


but since wwe is now pg I don't know if the rock can say his usual classic stuff
 

Diablodave

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that's spot on


but since wwe is now pg I don't know if the rock can say his usual classic stuff
He was saying it on monday night but i the mic/tv cameras were blanking out every time he said ASS because of the John Cena furore when he said ass and they recieved 1000s of complaints
 

Diablodave

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Though he blatantly says he is after the Miz and Cena. So there you have it....Cena will win elimination chamber, Miz will beat JK Lawler.

The next few weeks will show Rock interfering their matches, giving them a pasting and rockbottoming and peoples elbowing the pair of them, causing them losses or spoiling their victory parties.

Wrestlemania will be Miz vs Cena and Rock will guest referee it. Does get predictable
 

jveezy

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Though he blatantly says he is after the Miz and Cena. So there you have it....Cena will win elimination chamber, Miz will beat JK Lawler.

The next few weeks will show Rock interfering their matches, giving them a pasting and rockbottoming and peoples elbowing the pair of them, causing them losses or spoiling their victory parties.

Wrestlemania will be Miz vs Cena and Rock will guest referee it. Does get predictable
I doubt he'll be around the next few weeks. I think he's still shooting a movie. The reason he was able to make Monday's show was because it was in Anaheim which is close to Hollywood.
 

Ekeke

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I would say that he's been offered huge huge money to return, which is probably worth it for them as its become very stale in the years since The Rock, Stone Cold & Kurt Angle disappeared. At this point in time they really need a good focal point, someone good on the mic to bring the fans back. The Rock is exactly what they need.
Huge money for wrestling, no doubt. But whatever he is on it'll pale in comparison to what he gets paid for doing a movie.

So while he's obviously not going to be doing it for free, I think he feels more so that he has something to prove.
 

jveezy

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Huge money for wrestling, no doubt. But whatever he is on it'll pale in comparison to what he gets paid for doing a movie.

So while he's obviously not going to be doing it for free, I think he feels more so that he has something to prove.
Could also be an investment in his future as well. His Facebook and Twitter pages exploded in the past few days and this is generating enormous buzz. That attention and popularity certainly won't hurt him when trying to land his next movie. Putting on a hell of a show at the biggest event in the wrestling business (and subsequently drawing the largest PPV audience in recent WWE history) will certainly remind Hollywood just how big of a draw he is in case they've forgotten.
 

noodlehair

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What's the deal with Cena then?

I stopped watching before he came into it but from the snippets I caught I always thought he was a kind of wrestling Eminem rip off, rather than some PG merchant?

I've tuned in a few times when bored for the nostalgia effect, but the problem is apart from Chris Jericho I never have any idea who anyone is. Wade Barrol?...feck off. Come back when you've at least got a real wrestling name.
 

jveezy

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What's the deal with Cena then?

I stopped watching before he came into it but from the snippets I caught I always thought he was a kind of wrestling Eminem rip off, rather than some PG merchant?

I've tuned in a few times when bored for the nostalgia effect, but the problem is apart from Chris Jericho I never have any idea who anyone is. Wade Barrol?...feck off. Come back when you've at least got a real wrestling name.
I wasn't watching at the time, but I think he turned face after doing the rap thing for a while and the kids loved him and that sort of appeal facilitated the transition to PG programming. He also went on this ridiculous fairy tale run where he just didn't lose for a long time which made him look like this superman who could overcome all odds. That's the sort of thing the kids lap up like dogs but really really irks people in the 18-25 demographic that the company used to appeal to.

I think a lot of people believe that a heel turn would do wonders for his image among older fans, but would probably devastate and turn off a lot of kids. The heat he gets is probably unfair because he's only doing the stuff that the writers write for him, but the fact that he's the company's biggest draw in an era where kids make up the primary audience automatically makes him a target. Being in that position means you'll always be compared to The Rock and always compared to Stone Cold, and if that's the case you're always going to come up short, especially when your work is restricted to appeal to a younger audience.
 

Boss

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I wasn't watching at the time, but I think he turned face after doing the rap thing for a while and the kids loved him and that sort of appeal facilitated the transition to PG programming. He also went on this ridiculous fairy tale run where he just didn't lose for a long time which made him look like this superman who could overcome all odds. That's the sort of thing the kids lap up like dogs but really really irks people in the 18-25 demographic that the company used to appeal to.

I think a lot of people believe that a heel turn would do wonders for his image among older fans, but would probably devastate and turn off a lot of kids. The heat he gets is probably unfair because he's only doing the stuff that the writers write for him, but the fact that he's the company's biggest draw in an era where kids make up the primary audience automatically makes him a target. Being in that position means you'll always be compared to The Rock and always compared to Stone Cold, and if that's the case you're always going to come up short, especially when your work is restricted to appeal to a younger audience.
not only is he corny as hell


the writers never made him lose which just irked people
 

Ekeke

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Cena uses the same 5 moves, in a similar pattern, to beat everyone. And hardly ever sells something - there have been occasions where he's "relentlessly" attacked by a guy with a chair, until he's beaten down and all the kids are crying. Then by the time the camera has followed the chair guy out of the ring, Cena is standing up in the middle of the ring screaming

When Cena first came he had the gimmick of "ruthless aggression" and actually wrestled a bit. The white rapper gimmick wasnt too bad either. But then they changed it to him being some kind of U.S army guy and since then he just tries to be funny and "never give up". Despite being the most popular face around, in pretty much every match there will be chants of Cena sucks. He also used to have a good name, "Prototype" but they got rid of that when they called him up to the wwe

When Cena had funny gear, and when the wwe should have signed Danielson

 

jveezy

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not only is he corny as hell


the writers never made him lose which just irked people
Well yes, the cornyness can be attributed to the PG though. In the Attitude Era there were a lot of wrestlers who weren't well received when they first started (The Rock being one of them) and they were able to grow into roles that worked for them partly because they had the freedom to be a bit more explicit and entertaining. The Rock built his entire career on being able to ad lib the best promos in the business and did it mostly by making fun of people, making all kinds of sexual innuendo, and threatening to turn sumbitches sideways and stick em straight up people's candy asses. He and Stone Cold fully embraced that freedom they had, whereas we'll never know what some of the current era wrestlers could've done with their careers if they had the same liberties.
 

Zen86

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That's the joke.
I flicked onto it ages ago, what the feck did they do to Kane, he used to be pretty cool once upon a time. Now, no mask or anything. Could always rely on D-Generation X to be funny as well.
 

UnitedBoy

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stopped watching the day rock left,
started watching the day rock returned.!!
 

golden_blunder

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I hate Cena, the whole image is rubbish

for me, the company took the wrong direction when they split the show into different 'products', with half the wrestlers going to RAW and the other half to Smackdown.

Smackdown is for kids, RAW was always the better product with hardcore matches etc. Now that its gone PG..well..feck, boredom city.
 

beardsleybob

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Any chance they will actually lose this PG rating?

Surely the kids that started to tune in when the "Cena" era started will start to mature now. I stopped watchin properly like 8 or 9 years ago. That was Wrestlemania 17, im 21 now and PG was never a necessity. Surely it be better to bring it back some rudeness?
 

Zebs

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The day Trish Stratus returns is the day I watch wrestling again.

Stacey Keibler will suffice.
 

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Wow, Rock's back? I may have to watch the occasional show again.

99-01 was my favourite period. Triple H in that period was the perfect heel (and my personal favourite), and the battles between himself, Stone Cold and The Rock were epic. Throw in Mankind and Undertaker and it was an incredible era.

The moment Vince McMahon bought out the WCW it started turning to shit. Seemed to be a combination of Triple H's injury at that period (which he's never been quite the same since), Stone Cold's injuries piling up, The Rock starting to look towards Hollywood, bringing in some has-been's from the WCW, and perhaps Vince and the story-writters taking their eye of the ball as they didn't have to worry about competing with the WCW. I stopped watching it soon after.
 

jveezy

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I think you guys might need to temper expectations a bit. The Rock isn't "back" full time. He's going to host Wrestlemania and then who knows what will happen. I highly doubt he'll be around very much and he's said on his Facebook page that he's not going to wrestle again. His personality is a godsend right now and he'll be worth tuning into Wrestlemania for, but I think people who haven't been watching that are now saying they're going to tune in every so often to see The Rock are getting the wrong idea about what's happening here.

Geebs is definitely right about the brand extension though. It would make sense to cater both brands to different audiences. It makes sense to split if you have a lot of superstars. But most of the top superstars either left or retired and both brands are catering to the same audience, so there's no point to it anymore and the talent pool is just being diluted.

And yes, Kane should put the mask back on. I don't care how uncomfortable the damn thing is. That's nice that he got to play with expressing a bit more human emotion for a time, just like it was nice that Undertaker got to be Mark Calloway for a while with the biker thing, but it's getting stale and it's time to go back to what made some of these guys stars in the first place (like Undertaker returning to the deadman gimmick). They've turned him from a badass, absolutely wrecking beast of a machine to a humanized oaf. Before the flames and the music hit and you knew that shit was gonna go down and somebody was gonna get fecked up. But now when he makes his entrance it's just "Here comes the angry old giant from down the street. Kick him in the knees."
 

x42bn6

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I don't think WWE ever recovered from the losses of wrestlers such as Austin, The Rock, Chris Jericho, Brock Lesnar, Kurt Angle and Eddie Guerrero (amongst others) - huge personalities and capable of evoking huge amounts of heat or sympathy with ease. Jericho, Angle and to a lesser extent Eddie were also very capable of putting-over new talent - how many new careers has Jericho helped start within the WWE?

I think this is the issue Cena has - he's got to the point where he cannot really lose any small matches without things like interference, whilst retaining a persona that is hugely annoying.