The Reality Draft - Finals: VivaJanuzaj vs antohan

Who will win with players at their peaks?


  • Total voters
    35
  • Poll closed .

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,432
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
vs


........................... Team @VivaJanuzaj ....................................................................................................... Team @antohan .........................


Team VivaJanuzaj

Tactics:

My team is a team who is capable of playing in two ways - either possession or counter attacks. My midfield is built from three complete box to box midfielders, the idea behind it is to have 3 players who have an incredible work rate to cover huge parts of the pitch and dominate the midfield using their strength and work rate, when all three of them are equally comfortable in going forward as defending.
My team won't have a strict tactics in terms of possession or counter attacking, and it will shift around it as the game goes on, most real life teams do that and aren't being dependent on a single route to goal, so that will work superbly. My midfield is facing a difficult challenge in Neeskens-Sammer-Baggio, but I think it's a fair challenge that my team could triumph with strength and work rate.

Attack - My attack just screams goals against any defense to be honest. Romario is the most prolific goalscorer in this draft, and he has amazing distribution here with Breitner-Rummenigge pulling the strings on the right and Kalle's movement to draw defenders away from Romario leaving him 1v1 with T.Silva more than once during the match. Francescoli is the main creating player in the final third, and he will pull the strings moving from LiF to LAM and having a somewhat of a free role to use his incredible understanding of the game to pull the strings and passing balls to one of the lethal strikers in Romario and Rummenigge.
Antohan's defense is his relatively "weak part". He does got great shielding on his defense from his midfield with all of Sammer, Neeskens Nedved and Boniek known for their defensive work rate, but if Nedved will want to help Abidal on the left against Breittenge(and he would) it will take an amazing toll of his attacking, and the same goes for all other players.
Abidal, as highly as anto ranks him, is the worst defender on the pitch. T.Silva is a close second, and as many Baresi comparisons quotes anto will pull here, he's still played very little time in the real highest level of football on a weekly basis, and has yet to prove himself in big tournaments constantly. Just take the 7:1 beating against Germany or the 3:0 against the Netherlands in the recent WC, T.Silva had a great defense next to him as the leader of it but he just couldn't marshall it, before that Brazil didn't face a proper attacking team with top class players. Place Romario and Rummenigge against him and he be as good as he is on PSG against average strikers. I think T.Silva is really complete and a superb man marker and good on the ball, but between him and Abidal I don't see antohan's defensive line being up for the task.

Midfield - The midfield battle is a very interesting one, you've got Breitner-Seedorf-Keane in my side, a midfield trio which is built behind a vision of 3 box-to-box midfielders with plenty of power, work rate and stamina to just run around frustrating the opponent because they're all over the place. You know the midfielders you see everywhere across the pitch? Think of three of them, with great defensive awareness and very good on the ball. Important - Keane is not in a DM holding role, as opposed to his time with Scholes in United, Keane has two much better midfielders defensively next to him, so he will definitely not get restricted to "watching Baggio". Keane will get his chances to roam and either one of the two other CMs cover and stays back or the full backs won't roam, leaving Keane as the most defensive midfielder, because he's the best of them defensively, but not as a defensive minded midfielder as he's got more defensive cover than he ever got throughout his career.
I concede that I might lose the midfield battle here, anto has created a superbly balanced midfield from Sammer's defensive abilities to Neeskens' complete package and Baggio-Sammer-Neeskens on the ball linkup, but I think I just might be able to nick it although anto is the favorite in midfield, thank to my work rate. I was considering playing Veron at first, but against a midfield of this calibre when I need to defend, the only way to do it is by having three hard working horses to simply frustrate the hell out of the opponent, giving them no room to breath in midfield, and that's the plan in order to nullify this better midfield.

Defense - I have the better defense. No question about it. I already explained which of his defenders are the weaker deal, but my defense is just as good as it comes. antohan will need to decide wether to play Vieri or Raul, which decides on his playing style. If it's Raul, than jee, you don't get any better to man mark a quick tenacious player like Raul than Vierchowod. If it's Vieri, Kohler is just taller than him and incredibly commanding on the aerial battle. Anto has much more tools going forward, from Boniek and Nedved to Baggio and Neeskens, but I think that since my full backs won't roam constantly, and only do it when they've got Keane/Seedorf/Breitner covering for them, plus my midfield trio's solid shielding of defense, I'm not sure if anto's forwards will get too many chances of breaking the deadlock. Again, like in the last game, when you've got players of this calibre in the opposition's attack, it's ignorant to say they won't score for sure, but it will definitely take something special from Baggio or one of them to break my defensive line here.

Why I will win the match:
  • Romario and Rummenigge - These two scream goals. Both can create their own goals or to play one another to goal, add to that the proven combination of Breitner-Rummenigge, or the passing from the free moving Francescoli, or the fact that their facing the side with Abidal(and I guess T.Silva too), and you've got a winning formula of goal route. And that's the biggest mismatch of the game to be honest. Even with the protection from Nedved on this wing, which is huge, Nedved can't be expected to threat that Reuter wing while always defend here, and is bound to get a few times off defensive position.
  • Defensive lockdown - When I defend, I have a brick wall in midfield. With Baggio-Vieri/Raul I don't think there's a real route to goal from the middle with Keane-Vierchowod-Kohler, I mean seriously, you can't get any better defensive wall in the middle than that, and Raul/Vieri are simply not good enough to break that Vierchowod-Kohler partnership which is as good as it gets. Give me five more reinforcement rounds and I won't change it. The only real route to goal from antohan is wing play. Lucky for him, he's got superb wingers in Nedved and Boniek, but there's two reasons why I'm not sure he'll score from the wings. The first one is that I have great players in the middle to cut out crosses, and I can even afford to have a CB go to the winger if he cuts inside and beats the full back, with the second CB sticking with the striker(both Vierchowod and Kohler can comfortably deal with Raul/Vieri. They're not Romario). The second reason, is that I really trust my full backs. Zanetti is playing in the LB and not RB role, yeah, we know, but Zanetti played several seasons and was one of the best at both RB and LB. Versatility shouldn't be used against him. Reuter is partnered by his German associates with Kohler and Breitner helping him against the threat of Nedved. Reuter might have his hands full here with Nedved, but with the cover he'll have from Breitner or Kohler incase of need he'll cope. The second reason, is that I think Boniek and Nedved are going to be instructed to help out a lot in defense using their work rate. A solid tactic because of my dangerous wings, but it might backfire as it will take a toll of their attacking duties. Yes, they will still be incredibly dangerous, but just not as much. You can't expect them to do both at the same level.

To be fair, at the final stage there's no real an absolute weakness, only relative small weaknesses. As I conceded antohan has the better and more complete midfield here(although I still might win the battle), the relative weakness for this stage are his defenders. I have a much, much better defensive quartet, and with both of us having tremendous protection from our midfields, it's just a matter of who has more chances to score against the opposing defense, and I'll put my money on my team. Romario against T.Silva/Hierro/Ferrara, or Rummenigge against Abidal? I know where my money is.

*If antohan decides to play 3-5-2 with Silva-Hierro-Ferrara in CB, Nedved-Sammer-Neeskens-Effenberg-Boniek as midfield and Baggio-Raul/Vieri as strikers, I think it will even be more simple for me to triumph this, as the threat from Francescoli and Rummenigge will be insufficiently covered causing his defensive line to collide and let Romario cause chaos.[/QUOTE]
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,432
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Team antohan


TACTICS

A picture is worth more than a thousand words, but a GIF is even better.



It would be disingenuous to talk about players' individual quality at this stage. Everyone on the pitch is a great player. What makes the difference at this level is the system, how appropriate the players are for it, how they gel and whether they can realistically perform at the peak of their abilities.

This was the side and playing style I was aiming to nail from the outset, so I'm pretty chuffed, but more so that it happens to also be the most effective way to counter Viva's strengths:

1) HIGH LINE: I mentioned this in the semi between Viva and MJJ but didn't go into detail. Romario's most lethal attribute is his burst of pace over a few yards, that's where he left defenders for dead and why you don't want him anywhere near the box but facing a long boring slog to goal. Abidal is perfect for a high-press high line, there's no one in this draft with better credentials. Thiago is precisely the sort of player you want in that central role, and Ferrara the sort of pesky man-marker Enzo requires.

2) MOVEMENT, 1-TOUCH PLAY AND HIGH PRESS: Viva's midfield promises a battle, but it is one he will lose. My five midfielders are more adept on the ball and will keep them running themselves into the ground chasing the ball as Neeskens orchestrates the triangles total football relied on. He is in his element here. Conversely, when/if Viva recovers the ball all five midfielders will be superb at pressing and there's no one there with the creative or technical ability to live with that pressing. I will get far more from my possession, while he will most likely lose it very quickly.

3) FLANKS: In Boniek and Nedved I have the ideal pair to influence the game upfront, press upon losing possession and track back if required. They are both at ease on either wing, so Boniek will be on whichever side Zanetti is. Since Zanetti is the most astute defender, I'd rather commit him to the thankless task of being mentally and physically exhausted by Boniek's continuous movement and allow the more creative Nedved greater freedom on the defensively weaker Reuter/Alaba.

4) THE BIG MO: We all know how important form and MOMENTUM is. We've been on an upward trajectory of constant improvement, while Viva has been stagnating. This was only a few weeks ago:

Somewhere in the distance i can hear Anto playing this:



You've done okay with the random picks mate :D. Your team's looking great. Vivajanuzaj has hit the jackpot though!
:lol: Anto can't catch a break here, and I'm starting to think Viva's bribing EAP!

HOW I WIN

In short: I have the ball most of the time and can punish him, when he does finally get the ball he is hard-pressed and lacking any genuine creative outlet that can perform in that setting, when he rarely does get a good ball upfield Romario isn't in his ideal setting either, and I can seamlessly fall back into an impenetrable defensive shape.

Will he score? probably, would be daft to plan for nicking a 1-0 here.

I'll just score more.

PLAYER PROFILES
 
Last edited:

VivaJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
7,723
Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
There goes my tactics with that formation antohan. Neeskens as the AM? Seriously?
I think Kalle will enjoy this match with this formation, going to run havock here. For me on the counters it's Romario and Rummenigge against Sammer-Silva-Abidal. Bound to get a goal sooner rather than later
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,029
Location
Moscow
4) THE BIG MO: We all know how important form and MOMENTUM is. We've been on an upward trajectory of constant improvement, while Viva has been stagnating. This was only a few weeks ago:
Something is missing here?
 

Raees

Pythagoras in Boots
Joined
May 16, 2009
Messages
29,469
That gif is amazing .. great brainwashing tool for the scan voter haha. Hmm.. for me this is a Viva victory, I like his defence more. The midfield battle is in Anto's favour, but the three box to box players in Viva's side are not average joes..

I can see Antohan's side attacking ferociously, very high pressure and pushing back Viva's side.. but any interception and with the likes of Seedorf, Brietner running with it and that front three v Antohan's defence I can see it being one winner.. Romario is the best player on the pitch for me. Viva's full backs are excellent on the counter-attack too, very pacey and strong going forwards. Abidal is the weak link for me in your defence Antohan, as his battle v Rumenigge on the counter could be decisive.

Viva.. what subs do you have?
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
There goes my tactics with that formation antohan.
Nowhere in your tactics do you seem to have had the faintest idea how I would play this or who exactly would be on the pitch, from Hierro to Raúl or Vieri. In real life, that would be relevant, not on drafts of course.

Neeskens as the AM? Seriously?
I think Kalle will enjoy this match with this formation, going to run havock here. For me on the counters it's Romario and Rummenigge against Sammer-Silva-Abidal. Bound to get a goal sooner rather than later
As one of the prime exponents of total football, Neeskens is best suited to that role, which ultimately is about movement and keeping the triangles in place so that I waltz (pass) my way around your midfielders.

As opposed to tiki taka, this is Dutch style. The point of their passing wasn't hogging possession but vertical and goalboound. The only point in the passing and movement was to create the openings to turn direct and attack the gaping holes that emerged.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
Viva Januzaj's tactics said:
Abidal, as highly as anto ranks him, is the worst defender on the pitch. T.Silva is a close second, and as many Baresi comparisons quotes anto will pull here, he's still played very little time in the real highest level of football on a weekly basis, and has yet to prove himself in big tournaments constantly. Just take the 7:1 beating against Germany or the 3:0 against the Netherlands in the recent WC, T.Silva had a great defense next to him as the leader of it but he just couldn't marshall it
This is all complete nonsense.

First, please do enlighten me as to which leftback in this draft is better suited to play a high press high line. Answers on a postcard.

Second, you are lying here, scandalously. Thiago DID NOT PLAY against Germany. That's EXACTLY WHY they conceded 7 goals. He did NOT have a great defence next to him, very much the opposite with Marcelo/Luiz and Alves all being gung ho spackers, which is why they conceded seven goals, which could have been double-digits, in his absence. If anything, it was Thiago that saved their arses constantly. The Netherlands game is irrelevant as morale was rock-bottom, it was as predictable an outscome as you can get in a World Cup.
 
Last edited:

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
I can see Antohan's side attacking ferociously, very high pressure and pushing back Viva's side.. but any interception and with the likes of Seedorf, Brietner running with it and that front three v Antohan's defence I can see it being one winner..
How exactly do the front three get the ball then? I don't see anyone with the passing range to worry about. Seedorf running with the ball has to do away with Effenberg at the very least. Breitner has one (or both) of Sammer and Neeskens to "run past".

His transition is disfunctional at best. That's what wins or loses games when you have players of this calibre on the pitch.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
The ordering of the writeups is annoying, people will lose the will to live by the time they finish scanning through Viva's wall of text and my gif will be at some completely random stage by then :annoyed:
 

Gio

★★★★★★★★
Joined
Jan 25, 2001
Messages
20,338
Location
Bonnie Scotland
Supports
Rangers
There goes my tactics with that formation antohan. Neeskens as the AM? Seriously?
I think Kalle will enjoy this match with this formation, going to run havock here. For me on the counters it's Romario and Rummenigge against Sammer-Silva-Abidal. Bound to get a goal sooner rather than later
Agree on Rummenigge, but I like Neeskens in that role. It's refreshing when the likes of him and Matthaus are freed up to do what they do best, as opposed to the midfield holding postings they normally have to settle for by this time in a draft.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,029
Location
Moscow
Yep, Neeskens is great in this role, I don't understand Viva's confusion here. He is more than just complete box-to-box, he was constantly "attacking the space" that Cruyff left him, for example. And a hell of a goal threat too. Not every AM should be a Zidanesque-type №10 player

 

VivaJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
7,723
Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
Nowhere in your tactics do you seem to have had the faintest idea how I would play this or who exactly would be on the pitch, from Hierro to Raúl or Vieri. In real life, that would be relevant, not on drafts of course.
I agree. But it doesn't here.

As one of the prime exponents of total football, Neeskens is best suited to that role, which ultimately is about movement and keeping the triangles in place so that I waltz (pass) my way around your midfielders.

As opposed to tiki taka, this is Dutch style. The point of their passing wasn't hogging possession but vertical and goalboound. The only point in the passing and movement was to create the openings to turn direct and attack the gaping holes that emerged.
Okay, never said or intended to imply he won't be good in that role, just wanted to hear the reason for it.
This is all complete nonsense.

First, please do enlighten me as to which leftback in this draft is better suited to play a high press high line. Answers on a postcard.

Second, you are lying here, scandalously. Thiago DID NOT PLAY against Germany. That's EXACTLY WHY they conceded 7 goals. He did NOT have a great defence next to him, very much the opposite with Marcelo/Luiz and Alves all being gung ho spackers, which is why they conceded seven goals, which could have been double-digits, in his absence. If anything, it was Thiago that saved their arses constantly. The Netherlands game is irrelevant as morale was rock-bottom, it was as predictable an outscome as you can get in a World Cup.
My bad. I didn't remember he wasn't playing that match, EAP you can delete it please because I agree with anto it's bollocks if he didn't play.
I do think te Netherlands match is relevant, as they had a really high motivation to finish in a high and I don't think they were broken or anything, but other way around, they came with very high will to win
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
Agree on Rummenigge, but I like Neeskens in that role. It's refreshing when the likes of him and Matthaus are freed up to do what they do best, as opposed to the midfield holding postings they normally have to settle for by this time in a draft.
As I mentioned in the main thread:

1) Abidal may or may not be rated by people but no one can dispute at his peak he was a left back in what was largely a trio (Alves being way upfront) defending high up the pitch in a high-press side. He is made for this role.

2) You don't deal with a Rummenigge/Romario purely by playing "better defenders", what you need to do is minimise their impact by taking them out of their comfort zone, taking posession away from their sides, attacking their service, and having an adequate defensive setup/cover mechanisms. I would dispute Rummenigge getting to see much of the ball and, in any case, Abidal is primarily there to deal with him in the first phase of his counter and only really needs to keep tabs or delay him long enough for Sammer to drop into defence.

Anyone thinking it's Abidal vs. Rummenigge is completely ignoring Sammer, which is bizarre to say the least.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
I do think te Netherlands match is relevant, as they had a really high motivation to finish in a high and I don't think they were broken or anything, but other way around, they came with very high will to win
Bollocks, Scolari himself said the lineup would be based on which players were less mentally scarred by it all.
 

VivaJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
7,723
Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
Yep, Neeskens is great in this role, I don't understand Viva's confusion here. He is more than just complete box-to-box, he was constantly "attacking the space" that Cruyff left him, for example. And a hell of a goal threat too. Not every AM should be a Zidanesque-type №10 player

Never said he won't be good there, just wondered why he's playing that role.

Never mind, I still think Romario and Rummenigge against that defense is a huge mismatch and the biggest one in this match. With Enzo behind they don't need a midfielder creating from deep, they've got the final pass right there against a relatively weak defense.
Agree on Rummenigge, but I like Neeskens in that role. It's refreshing when the likes of him and Matthaus are freed up to do what they do best, as opposed to the midfield holding postings they normally have to settle for by this time in a draft.
Again, I never intended to imply he won't e good in that role, just surprised he started in it that's all.
That gif is amazing .. great brainwashing tool for the scan voter haha. Hmm.. for me this is a Viva victory, I like his defence more. The midfield battle is in Anto's favour, but the three box to box players in Viva's side are not average joes..

I can see Antohan's side attacking ferociously, very high pressure and pushing back Viva's side.. but any interception and with the likes of Seedorf, Brietner running with it and that front three v Antohan's defence I can see it being one winner.. Romario is the best player on the pitch for me. Viva's full backs are excellent on the counter-attack too, very pacey and strong going forwards. Abidal is the weak link for me in your defence Antohan, as his battle v Rumenigge on the counter could be decisive.

Viva.. what subs do you have?
That's a really good description of how the game will go imo.
My subs are Trezeguet, Savicevic, RvN, Veron, Alaba and Adams
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,432
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Neeskens against Keane. man, that would be some match up! But with Baggio there, I simple don't see viva stopping goals here. anto definitely has at least one goal there.
But at the same time, I really do not like anto's defence. The high press may work against Romario, but with Enzo and Rummenigge it is bound to backfire. A quick through pass would put them direct with the keeper. Though he has advantage in wode areas, I really think his defensive set up cannot contain Viva's front 3.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
I agree. But it doesn't here.
It should. In what planet does it NOT make a difference that one side prepared and planned for the exact lineup in front of it, while the other expected a completely different game?

For example, you didn't expect Neeskens there, nor the two strikers, nor the high line, nor the constant press. What team wouldn't be affected by suddenly finding itslef having the shit pressed out fo it and someone like Neeskens deployed as Lord of the Triangles? Everything they planned for the entire week is toast.

antohan will need to decide wether to play Vieri or Raul, which decides on his playing style. If it's Raul, than jee, you don't get any better to man mark a quick tenacious player like Raul than Vierchowod. If it's Vieri, Kohler is just taller than him and incredibly commanding on the aerial battle.
:lol: I should play Peter Crouch then. What sort of argument is that? Kohler is a great defender, absolutely, but no one can live with Vieri aerially, not all game long, it just doesn't work like that.

You are also of course ignoring that Nedved will be regularly beating Reuter, meaning Kohler isn't comfortable at all here.

And it's not just a height thing (which it isn't anyway), watch below. The defender is Thuram, the goalie is Buffon. Neither had a chance.

 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
Neeskens against Keane. man, that would be some match up! But with Baggio there, I simple don't see viva stopping goals here. anto definitely has at least one goal there.
But at the same time, I really do not like anto's defence. The high press may work against Romario, but with Enzo and Rummenigge it is bound to backfire. A quick through pass would put them direct with the keeper. Though he has advantage in wode areas, I really think his defensive set up cannot contain Viva's front 3.
Enzo is facing an excellent man-marker in Ferrara anyway, and knowing him he will be nowhere near challenging the back three but going deep to desperately try to provide some service to the men upfront because there simply isn't anyone who will otherwise.

Kalle is another cup of tea, and that's why Sammer is on that side to support Abidal.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
So if it's Sammer and Abidal vs Rummenigge on counters, and Francescoli vs Ferrara, so it's Romario vs T.Silva? Yes please.
Sammer is between Abidal and Thiago, will support as required, he is not stupid you know?

You are also woefully underrating Thiago Silva and massively overrating Romario's willingness to run half the pitch, then back up, sprint again chasing yet another aimless hoof... He will be very frustrated actually.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,530
* Neeskens. The complete and all conquering Neeskens. Can't argue against the fecker either, 'cause he clearly can play that kind of role. Very good at orchestrating, he was - very good at hitting those short, lethal passes you'd need for that role too.

* So, yeah - sure. He wasn't...whatshisface...the borderline senile one who doesn't like Aloysius very much, don't recall his name at the moment, pretty good, though, slightly better than Neeskens even - well, whatever, Neeskens wasn't as good as him. But he was pretty feckin' good.

* The gif has to be applauded. Of course. Ever since I was a wee lad I've always liked to watch cartoons.

* Abidal isn't nearly as good as his manager thinks. I mean, fer the sake of our saviour - he's a decent player but that's pretty much it in this context.
 

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
38,187
Location
Interweb
Sorry Anto, great tactics but I don't think your back 3 is good enough to make it work. Abidal especially is a weak link. I know you rate him highly so we probably won't agree there. Even Thiago is way way overrated by you.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,530
That said, I simply don't like Viva's set-up. I don't like Keane in that role. Don't like Zanetti in that role (yeah, yeah, he played on the left and blah feckin' blah - I know that, I've followed his career over the years and for me he was clearly at his best on the right). Don't even like that trio up front. They're beyond reproach, of course, in terms of quality - that goes without saying. But in a set-up like this - as a trio, as a feckin' trio. No.
 

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
* Abidal isn't nearly as good as his manager thinks. I mean, fer the sake of our saviour - he's a decent player but that's pretty much it in this context.
The way I see it there are two scenarios:

1) Viva struggles to get any sort of decent outball forward. Defence isn't relevant then.

2) What I think would happen, but can't assume since Viva hasn't said so: Enzo would drop deep to help with that need for service. Of course, in that case you no longer have three forwards hoping to get on the end of that pass, but two.

In both scenarios, I'm more than happy with what Abidal would do. And you should also remember, as should all those criticising my defence, that I have a player there who actually won the friggin' Ballon d'Or as a sweeper. What do sweepers do? Organise defences, detect dangerous developments and act accordingly. That's exactly the job required here.

Good as Kohler and Vierchowod are, they are up against it with Vieri and Baggio, let alone when either fullback gets beaten or completely loses his mark. Sammer is, comfortably, a far more valuable player given the task at hand. I would challenge you to come up with someone better suited than him for that role here and I don't mean in the draft but the history of the game.

Neeskens and Sammer where targets from the off, integral to the setup, one that was put together to exploit their strengths. In the meantime, you have Keane deep in a trio of box-to-box midfielders and without a Scholes, Seedorf without a Pirlo, Breitner without a Netzer, Stielike or Schuster...

Again, at this level it is no longer about players being good or not, it's about how appropriate they are for the setup, what the setup is, and whether it can get the best out of them. My players are all in their element, all of them.
 
Last edited:

antohan

gets aroused by tagline boobs
Joined
Apr 24, 2002
Messages
42,178
Location
Montevideo
Sorry Anto, great tactics but I don't think your back 3 is good enough to make it work. Abidal especially is a weak link. I know you rate him highly so we probably won't agree there. Even Thiago is way way overrated by you.
SAMMER!

Christ :rolleyes:

Thank god I made a GIF explaining it...
 

VivaJanuzaj

Full Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
7,723
Location
Tel Aviv, Israel
I did say Enzo will get a free role so of course he'll roam and help creating from deep. It goes without saying. Breitner and Seedorf are more than capable of making the transition from defense to attack. Any suggestion they can't is bollocks
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

Ero-Sennin
Joined
Dec 7, 2010
Messages
41,432
Location
┴┬┴┤( ͡° ͜ʖ├┬┴┬
Enzo is facing an excellent man-marker in Ferrara anyway, and knowing him he will be nowhere near challenging the back three but going deep to desperately try to provide some service to the men upfront because there simply isn't anyone who will otherwise.

Kalle is another cup of tea, and that's why Sammer is on that side to support Abidal.
I like the back 3, but not in this set up. A narrow 1-3 defence would be so much more effective in this. And since he is playing a standard back 4, think your team is top heavy.

....Abidal.....Silva......Ferrera....
................Sammer................

With Effenberg and Neeskens providing midfield defensive support. it really makes a compact counter to a 4-3-3.
 

Chesterlestreet

Man of the crowd
Joined
Oct 19, 2012
Messages
19,530
Viva's defense, in a purely defensive sense, ain't as impressive as he likes us to think - of course. Zanetti on the left (nevermind the fact that he's on the left - he ain't a brick wall on either side) and Reuter...who is more of an asset going forward than a prime defender (that is obvious if we're talking about the ability to...well, defend oneself).

His CBs are beyond reproach, however. Even against the physical threat of Vieri. He - Vieri - is up against a pair here who can plausibly shut him down, or up, completely.
 

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
38,187
Location
Interweb
I would have voted for anto if he would have gone for a boring 433 with Baggio as false 9 of sorts

Boniek--------Baggio-------Nedved
--------------Neeskens------------
----------Sammer--Effenberg-------
Abidal---Hierro----Thiago---Amoros
 

Annahnomoss

Full Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2012
Messages
10,101
I would have voted for anto if he would have gone for a boring 433 with Baggio as false 9 of sorts

Boniek--------Baggio-------Nedved
--------------Neeskens------------
----------Sammer--Effenberg-------
Abidal---Hierro----Thiago---Amoros

Neeskens---Effenberg
-------Sammer-------
and they are all in their best positions.
 

crappycraperson

"Resident cricket authority"
Scout
Joined
Dec 26, 2003
Messages
38,187
Location
Interweb
Viva's defense, in a purely defensive sense, ain't as impressive as he likes us to think - of course. Zanetti on the left (nevermind the fact that he's on the left - he ain't a brick wall on either side) and Reuter...who is more of an asset going forward than a prime defender (that is obvious if we're talking about the ability to...well, defend oneself).

His CBs are beyond reproach, however. Even against the physical threat of Vieri. He - Vieri - is up against a pair here who can plausibly shut him down, or up, completely.
To be fair, Zanetti on right has always gotten the status of brick wall in these drafts, you have likes of Aldo and anto coming in and drooling all over him and heis beyond reproach etc. That's just how it is with some players