The relative strength of the Premier League

[ThierryHenry14]

TV rights value by league

League/Total	2022/23 Domestic TV Deal	2022/23 Overseas TV Deal
Premier League: €3.47bn	€1.67bn	€1.8bn
La Liga: €1.35bn	€350m	€1bn
Bundesliga: €1.35bn	€1.1bn	€250m
Serie A: €1.195bn	€970m	€225m
Ligue 1: €680m	€600m	€80m

 

[adexkola]

No. Unless you think that Inter situation is normal and has nothing to do with ownership or if you think that the difference for West Ham between this season and two years ago is that they joined the PL.

I think you're choosing to rather believe both Milan and Inter are "just being mismanaged" (along with a club like Atletico Madrid) rather than give credit to West Ham (who haven't done much in the last 3 years apart from make an EL semifinal)

 

[jadajos]

In my opinion english plays an important role for the EPL popularity. Most countries in Asia the only 2nd language people can speak or understand is english.

Of all the reasons why the EPL is so popular the language is certainly one of the least important ones.

Serie A was the most competetive league in the 90ies and how many people speak Italian? It was the best because private owners like Agnelli and Berlusconi put a ton of money into the clubs and bought top players The same then happened in the EPL but eversince Abramovic it went on to a whole other level.

EPL games abroad usually aren’t even broadcasted in English but in the respective native languages, at least where I live.

 

[JPRouve]

I think you're choosing to rather believe both Milan and Inter are "just being mismanaged" (along with a club like Atletico Madrid) rather than give credit to West Ham (who haven't done much in the last 3 years apart from make an EL semifinal)

And I think that you are choosing to not make much sense. First because their increase in commercial revenue matches with their 6th and 7th finishing seasons and european Football, the EL part is important for potential sponsorS. And you choose to compare the worst figures of certain clubs with the best figures of West Ham while somehow finding convenient to state the obvious.

I could understand your point if West Ham didn't increase their commercial revenues after finishing 6th and 7th in the league and also with the prospect of continental Football. So if we go back to the point we were intially talking about West Ham didn't monetize games against the top 6-7, they joined the top 6-7(they weren't a midtable to bottom table team), they increased their exposure by playing continental Football and got better commercial deals out of it. If you want to translate that into it's because they are in the PL, then fair enough.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I think you're choosing to rather believe both Milan and Inter are "just being mismanaged" (along with a club like Atletico Madrid) rather than give credit to West Ham (who haven't done much in the last 3 years apart from make an EL semifinal)

It is factually true that Inter used to have much higher commercial revenue, it is not a matter of belief.

It is also factually true that Inter were mediocre for the better part of the 2010s.

 

[JPRouve]

It is factually true that Inter used to have much higher commercial revenue, it is not a matter of belief.

It is also factually true that Inter were mediocre for the better part of the 2010s.

To illustrate that fact, in 2020 their commercial revenues were 154m compared to West Ham 41m.

 

[FrankFoot]

Yet, PL teams fail to dominate European competitions unlike Italian and Spanish teams when Serie A and La Liga were at their peak.
Not to mention even with this revenue advantage, PL has never been a talent magnet like La Liga and Serie A especially for Latin, South American stars as usual..

Good weather can't be bought, that's why

 

[adexkola]

It is factually true that Inter used to have much higher commercial revenue, it is not a matter of belief.

It is also factually true that Inter were mediocre for the better part of the 2010s.

And Milan and Atletico? The same applies to them? It's pure coincidence that they're in the same bracket as the likes of West Ham and Leicester and Leeds... Leeds??? Who were in the championship 5 years ago? No residual benefits from being in the PL? Ok then.

And I think that you are choosing to not make much sense. First because their increase in commercial revenue matches with their 6th and 7th finishing seasons and european Football, the EL part is important for potential sponsorS. And you choose to compare the worst figures of certain clubs with the best figures of West Ham while somehow finding convenient to state the obvious.

I could understand your point if West Ham didn't increase their commercial revenues after finishing 6th and 7th in the league and also with the prospect of continental Football. So if we go back to the point we were intially talking about West Ham didn't monetize games against the top 6-7, they joined the top 6-7(they weren't a midtable to bottom table team), they increased their exposure by playing continental Football and got better commercial deals out of it. If you want to translate that into it's because they are in the PL, then fair enough.

If you have the full figures of commercial revenue for Inter and Milan and Atletico, you can definitely post them since you have intricate information on commercial revenue sourcing beyond the Deloitte link.

Alternatively if you want to believe that being in the most watched league in the world has no benefit (from a commercial aspect) to teams beyond the traditional top 6, that is also your right.

 

[JPRouve]

If you have the full figures of commercial revenue for Inter and Milan and Atletico, you can definitely post them since you have intricate information on commercial revenue sourcing beyond the Deloitte link.

Alternatively if you want to believe that being in the most watched league in the world has no benefit (from a commercial aspect) to teams beyond the traditional top 6, that is also your right.

I never said that and it wasn't the point that you initially made nor the question that you asked later. If you want to move the goalposts, go ahead though.

 

[Bluelion7]

This reminds me of the early days of promoting the SEC as a conference on college football instead of just individual teams.

I worked as volunteer writer for a recruiting service site for my alma mater, and there were a LOT of people that thought the idea of “conference loyalty” was stupid.

Fans were like “I’ll NEVER ever root for Georgia, FL, Bama, etc,etc”

Then it became: “You losers better not let the conference down!”

Then: “ SEC, SEC, SEC!” at every game and with every championship.

Growing to the tagline: “The SEC: It just means more.”

If all of that were just marketing, it wouldn’t amount to much, but it’s slowly, but surely turned into more money under the table to players. More money over the table to players. More money to the conferences and leagues. And about 20 years later, the SEC is now completely dominant.

The parallels are even closer when you consider that the only two real outliers are the historic powers of Ohio State, and Michigan that rely almost purely on their rivalry game for attention.

At some point the disparity between the leagues will get large enough, especially financially, that outside agencies like UEFA will try to artificially level the playing field between the leagues, and that is when I think you will see this come to ahead because the Premier league will not stand for having its growth halted, or slowed down by the failure of the other leagues’ product.

Fans of teams outside the Premiere league can get offended, or claim it’s not true all they want: Teams like Real and Barca wouldn’t be fighting so desperately, STILL, in court for the Superleague if they didn’t feel it was necessary.

 

[JPRouve]

This reminds me of the early days of promoting the SEC as a conference on college football instead of just individual teams.

I worked as volunteer writer for a recruiting service site for my alma mater, and there were a LOT of people that thought the idea of “conference loyalty” was stupid.

Fans were like “I’ll NEVER ever root for Georgia, FL, Bama, etc,etc”

Then it became: “You losers better not let the conference down!”

Then: “ SEC, SEC, SEC!” at every game and with every championship.

Growing to the tagline: “The SEC: It just means more.”

If all of that were just marketing, it wouldn’t amount to much, but it’s slowly, but surely turned into more money under the table to players. More money over the table to players. More money to the conferences and leagues. And about 20 years later, the SEC is now completely dominant.

The parallels are even closer when you consider that the only two real outliers are the historic powers of Ohio State, and Michigan that rely almost purely on their rivalry game for attention.

At some point the disparity between the leagues will get large enough, especially financially, that outside agencies like UEFA will try to artificially level the playing field between the leagues, and that is when I think you will see this come to ahead because the Premier league will not stand for having its growth halted, or slowed down by the failure of the other leagues’ product.

Fans of teams outside the Premiere league can get offended, or claim it’s not true all they want: Teams like Real and Barca wouldn’t be fighting so desperately, STILL, in court for the Superleague if they didn’t feel it was necessary.

The financial disparity between leagues is already massive and has been for a long time. It's not a new phenomenon, people just seem to talk more about it today probably due to better/more interactions with social media.

 

[FrankFoot]

Of all the reasons why the EPL is so popular the language is certainly one of the least important ones.

Serie A was the most competetive league in the 90ies and how many people speak Italian? It was the best because private owners like Agnelli and Berlusconi put a ton of money into the clubs and bought top players The same then happened in the EPL but eversince Abramovic it went on to a whole other level.

EPL games abroad usually aren’t even broadcasted in English but in the respective native languages, at least where I live.

Language and affinity helps, the most famous clubs in Latinoamerica are Real and Barcelona.

Asia due to british colonialism will always be more familiar with UK than with Germany or Italy.

 

[jm99]

Of course, money is important. The point is PL teams (when PL is at its peak) were not within the consideration set of Mbappe. Lewa would not even think about choosing United over Barca when Barca was having one of its worst season post-Messi, the guy left Bayern for Barca. Also, beyond a point, money loses its effect, other factors gain more importance. Ronaldo would stay in Europe instead of Saudi Arabia had he been offered a significantly lower salary by a top CL contender for example..

Think about all the top players (top-20) that left their mark in the last 20 years, very few spent their peak in the PL. I do not think this trend will change significantly any time soon.

I notice you left off that Messi was ready to go to man city before barcelona blocked him being able to leave on a free. You said lewandowski didn't come to us who'd finished 6th but he likely would have considered city or Liverpool if they were interested but city signed haaland instead who's also one of the most prized players in the world. I don't think mbappe will be totally out of reach for PL clubs when this psg contract runs out, particularly if us or Liverpool got taken over by an oil state

 

[JPRouve]

Language and affinity helps, the most famous clubs in Latinoamerica are Real and Barcelona.

Asia due to british colonialism will always be more familiar with UK than with Germany or Italy.

I remember an analysis mentioning that initially(in the early 90s) one of the appeal for international broadcast was that buyers could directly use Sky's feed, they didn't had to hire commentators. I remember that it was also the case in french speaking Africa with Canal Horizon, it was directly Canal Plus feed.

Nowadays it's not true though, the PL is a great product that has gained its own viewership, people like and want the product that it provides.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Good weather can't be bought, that's why

It is valid only when Real and Barca can still offer one of the best wages in the industry, otherwise it can be bought. Players do went to Saudi and China to play for the big contract .

 

[Acheron]

TV rights value by league

League/Total	2022/23 Domestic TV Deal	2022/23 Overseas TV Deal
Premier League: €3.47bn	€1.67bn	€1.8bn
La Liga: €1.35bn	€350m	€1bn
Bundesliga: €1.35bn	€1.1bn	€250m
Serie A: €1.195bn	€970m	€225m
Ligue 1: €680m	€600m	€80m

The Domestic deal from la liga is atrocious.

 

[wangyu]

Historically most of the all time greats never played in England (except for the British ones of course). England has never been a favorite destination for football players.
I was genuinely surprised when Haaland joined the EPL, I think he sees it as a step up to la liga though

 

[Red in STL]

It says a lot about the appeal EPL has outside of England, yes.
They get their money through TV-rights from the by far biggest league in the world, yes. EPL is that much bigger world wide than Serie A and Ligue 1. Most non Italians pays to watch Southampton - Leeds over Napoli - Lazio. It doesn't matter that Napoli is better and has a prouder history, Southampton is bigger than Napoli based on revenue.

That's the dynamic of world football right now for you.

PL football is exciting to watch generally even if the quality isn't always high, Italian football is boring even of the quality is higher, same in Spain sometimes, watching th e Spanish national team in the WC was mostly like watching paint dry

 

[Red in STL]

Historically most of the all time greats never played in England (except for the British ones of course). England has never been a favorite destination for football players.
I was genuinely surprised when Haaland joined the EPL, I think he sees it as a step up to la liga though

"England has never been a favorite destination for football players" - that's odd because there's probably less English players in England than overseas players

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

And Milan and Atletico? The same applies to them? It's pure coincidence that they're in the same bracket as the likes of West Ham and Leicester and Leeds... Leeds??? Who were in the championship 5 years ago? No residual benefits from being in the PL? Ok then.

Atletico has almost twice the amount of commercial revenue as West Ham. I don't see how that is the 'same bracket.' I don't really understand why you find the idea that Inter and Milan might not be the best-managed clubs to be so bizarre. Juventus had commercial revenue of 194m last season, that is more than Inter and Milan combined.

I think it is also worth remembering that leagues exist in countries with different economies; the UK and Germany are substantially wealthier than Spain and Italy. This might have an influence in how much money these clubs make.

 

[Long Time Red]

Whats happening with EPL is what happens in most industries in the world. One firm becomes dominant and its relative strenght attracts more power/money. The best managers and players will be attracted to play in the richest league which compounds the initial advantage.

While Barca, Juve, and all the other superleague teams may still be big enough to compete at the top, there is a clear financial advantage to smaller EPL clubs which can be argued is because of tv rights bit you could go a bit deeper and identify other factors like English being such a widely spoken language. Whatever it is, the EPL is starting to pull ahead and I don't accept the argument that its part of a cyclical process whereby another league will dominate later. The advantages that the EPL has are very sticky and won't change soon. The more top players and managers come over the more dominant the league will become which could lead to the EPL being seen as a superleague with little or no real competition.

The key to success is healthy competition making so called smaller clubs like Tottenham or Newcastle appealing to top players and the league being viewed as the ultimate test for the players who think they're the best.

The reason it's become the most popular league is because of it's competitiveness due to the distribution of TV money.

Both Italy in the 90s with Baggio, Batistuta and Ronaldo and Spain 2000 with the Galatico era and 2010s with Messi/Ronaldo era had the chance to be the dominant league but the top clubs wanted to protect their position at the top.

In the 90s the Premier League was miles behind.

Other than Alan Shearer who was bought for £15m, the second biggest transfer fee of the 90s was Stan Collymore for £8.5m

Compare that to La Liga and Serie who regularly had players bought and sold for £15-40m.

The people have voted and want to watch a product where the revenues are distributed more evenly which results in more competitive games.

The only way that the other leagues can compete with the Premier League is to distribute the revenue more evenly but clearly top clubs won't risk their position at the top and so disparity will continue to increase.

 

[adexkola]

The reason it's become the most popular league is because of it's competitiveness due to the distribution of TV money.

Both Italy in the 90s with Baggio, Batistuta and Ronaldo and Spain 2000 with the Galatico era and 2010s with Messi/Ronaldo era had the chance to be the dominant league but the top clubs wanted to protect their position at the top.

In the 90s the Premier League was miles behind.

Other than Alan Shearer who was bought for £15m, the second biggest transfer fee of the 90s was Stan Collymore for £8.5m

Compare that to La Liga and Serie who regularly had players bought and sold for £15-40m.

The people have voted and want to watch a product where the revenues are distributed more evenly which results in more competitive games.

The only way that the other leagues can compete with the Premier League is to distribute the revenue more evenly but clearly top clubs won't risk their position at the top and so disparity will continue to increase.

How does one even go about measuring the competitiveness of a league?

 

[Long Time Red]

How does one even go about measuring the competitiveness of a league?

The relative revenues of top teams in the league compared to the middle and bottom.

 

[genardk]

I notice you left off that Messi was ready to go to man city before barcelona blocked him being able to leave on a free. You said lewandowski didn't come to us who'd finished 6th but he likely would have considered city or Liverpool if they were interested but city signed haaland instead who's also one of the most prized players in the world. I don't think mbappe will be totally out of reach for PL clubs when this psg contract runs out, particularly if us or Liverpool got taken over by an oil state

If you read my previous post, I said stars at their prime. You do not see Messi, Ronaldo at their prime in the PL. Even Casemiro arrived way after his prime. Lewa considering Barca at their worst despite Bayern not wanting him to leave (Bayern can easily rival any top PL side) shows that his decision was not just about the current state of the clubs, and I doubt he would be interested in coming to the PL instead of Barca..

As I said, after a certain salary/financial benefits point, other factors such as familiar culture/language, whether the place is a world-class city or not, weather etc. become the key factors.. PL can partly overcome this disadvantage by completely dominating the CL, but that has not happened so far.. These years are really "the moment" for the PL teams to dominate the CL with La Liga, Serie A in bad shape, but even the undisputed PL king of the last 5 years, City could not win a single CL. So, we can discuss all day long how significant the financial gap is now between PL teams and others, but that has not been reflected in their results in the European competitions so far meaning PL teams have significantly underperformed.

 

[carvajal]

I've never been a big fan of comparing leagues, as being from Spain I go to watch la liga, whether it sucks or not, but for the last few months I've noticed more desperation/resignation from fans of other teams.
And not so much because of the football itself, but because of how the product is sold, ticket prices, TV package prices and above all because of the constant loss of players, either because there is no money or because it is simply impossible to compete.
I saw this recently with Betis fans and the signing of Álex Moreno with Aston Villa, although there are plenty of examples. I imagine that all this unrest will end up with opposition to Tebas, support for the super league (or whichever option gives them the most money).

 

[Pintu]

TV rights value by league

League/Total	2022/23 Domestic TV Deal	2022/23 Overseas TV Deal
Premier League: €3.47bn	€1.67bn	€1.8bn
La Liga: €1.35bn	€350m	€1bn
Bundesliga: €1.35bn	€1.1bn	€250m
Serie A: €1.195bn	€970m	€225m
Ligue 1: €680m	€600m	€80m

The Domestic deal from la liga is atrocious.

These figures are wrong. La Liga earns 900M form international rights (they were smart selling them in 2018, before Ronaldo and Messi left…Sold the 5 years between 19-24). I doubt they can make a similar number form the coming period…

La Liga’s domestic deal is similar to Serie A, just under €1billion/year.

 

[Long Time Red]

I've never been a big fan of comparing leagues, as being from Spain I go to watch la liga, whether it sucks or not, but for the last few months I've noticed more desperation/resignation from fans of other teams.
And not so much because of the football itself, but because of how the product is sold, ticket prices, TV package prices and above all because of the constant loss of players, either because there is no money or because it is simply impossible to compete.
I saw this recently with Betis fans and the signing of Álex Moreno with Aston Villa, although there are plenty of examples. I imagine that all this unrest will end up with opposition to Tebas, support for the super league (or whichever option gives them the most money).

How exactly will the Super League help Betis?

They can forget ever winning the Copa Del Rey again if it happens.

 

[jm99]

If you read my previous post, I said stars at their prime. You do not see Messi, Ronaldo at their prime in the PL. Even Casemiro arrived way after his prime. Lewa considering Barca at their worst despite Bayern not wanting him to leave (Bayern can easily rival any top PL side) shows that his decision was not just about the current state of the clubs, and I doubt he would be interested in coming to the PL instead of Barca..

As I said, after a certain salary/financial benefits point, other factors such as familiar culture/language, whether the place is a world-class city or not, weather etc. become the key factors.. PL can partly overcome this disadvantage by completely dominating the CL, but that has not happened so far.. These years are really "the moment" for the PL teams to dominate the CL with La Liga, Serie A in bad shape, but even the undisputed PL king of the last 5 years, City could not win a single CL. So, we can discuss all day long how significant the financial gap is now between PL teams and others, but that has not been reflected in their results in the European competitions so far meaning PL teams have significantly underperformed.

Well it was because you mentioned lewandowski going to Barca, I figured Messi being willing to go to city at 33, younger than lewandowski might be acceptable. I think la liga has been kept ahead by the Messi and Ronaldo super teams for the last decade, and then many young player growing up watching them, but the financial gap is widening, we've been crippled by poor ownership, so even though we've spent, we've spent badly. Newcastle will likely be another city. The only team in the league that's had the financial advantage and well run is an attractive prospect to players, and now there are likely to be 3 of those teams, 4 if Liverpool get rich owners

 

[carvajal]

How exactly will the Super League help Betis?

They can forget ever winning the Copa Del Rey again if it happens.

The current Champions League doesn't give Betis absolutely nothing either.
I was referring more to ceding authority to what Madrid/Barcelona say. Supporting the superleague, supporting the fight that both have to control la liga, in exchange for more income in the television distribution.
Superleague means strict control between members, which means more money for Madrid and Barcelona (and maybe Atletico, Valencia, Sevilla, etc in a supposed superleague B) and therefore better players and more chance of both a better TV contract and a decent investor.

 

[Pintu]

How exactly will the Super League help Betis?

They can forget ever winning the Copa Del Rey again if it happens.

Nobody can say exactly how it helps or hurts the smaller clubs... It depends on how the revenue of the ESL is shared... English clubs being 5 to 10 times richer didn't prevent Villareal from winning the EL. And we often see poorer teams than PSG/Bayern go on and win the domestic Cups over there...

One thing is sure, the way things have been going we are going to end up with the EPL concentrating all the wealth while the other top leagues in Europe will end up with much lower income, which will definitely harm smaller club in these leagues.

It is the strength of the big clubs that keeps the domestic league competitive in the global market... If Barca, Real (and others) are participating in the ESL and making shitloads of money and recruiting WC players, maintaining their global stature that will certainly make La Liga more attractive and that should benefit everyone. The same goes for other leagues. They all need their top clubs at the highest possible level for them to keep growing...

 

[Long Time Red]

Nobody can say exactly how it helps or hurts the smaller clubs... It depends on how the revenue of the ESL is shared... English clubs being 5 to 10 times richer didn't prevent Villareal from winning the EL. And we often see poorer teams than PSG/Bayern go on and win the domestic Cups over there...

One thing is sure, the way things have been going we are going to end up with the EPL concentrating all the wealth while the other top leagues in Europe will end up with much lower income, which will definitely harm smaller club in these leagues.

As I said in a previous post, these things go in cycles.

Inter bought Christian Vieiri for €49 million in 1999 while the Premier League record was still Alan Shearer for £15m.

The Super League isn't going to stop the Premier League from dominating.

It is the strength of the big clubs that keeps the domestic league competitive in the global market... If Barca, Real (and others) are participating in the ESL and making shitloads of money and recruiting WC players, maintaining their global stature that will certainly make La Liga more attractive and that should benefit everyone. The same goes for other leagues. They all need their top clubs at the highest possible level for them to keep growing...

That's a myth, how exactly did the Premier League manage to become the dominant league financially then when it's never had the stars like Italy and Spain did during the 90s and 2000s?

 

[Pintu]

As I said in a previous post, these things go in cycles.

Inter bought Christian Vieiri for €49 million in 1999 while the Premier League record was still Alan Shearer for £15m.

That's not about cycles... Inter weren't that much richer than English clubs back then. They just had sugar daddy Moratti investing massive money... They also made money selling players. Robbie Keane was sold to Leeds for big money... Serie A as a whole was somewhat richer than the PL, but the financial gap was never as big as it is now...

The Super League isn't going to stop the Premier League from dominating.

That's a myth, how exactly did the Premier League manage to become the dominant league financially then when it's never had the stars like Italy and Spain did during the 90s and 2000s?

It will not stop the PL domination over other domestic leagues, but it will reduce the financial gap significantly... And that's all they can hope for...

The PL made some very smart moves in the last 20 years. It attracted investors from all around the world, ( I think Abramovich was the main turning point), but it also built some strategic business alliances with massive groups, including media outlets. These groups are so invested in the PL that they will do anything to promote it. Murdoch, Abu Dhabi, NENT (MTG in the past) are some very powerful allies to have. Each played a massive role at some points.

I live in Sweden and I have seen over the last 6/7 years how Viasat went from first abandoning most European leagues to now abandoning the CL and focusing on promoting English football in ridiculous proportions, the Swedish kids will know West Ham and Leicester more than our own clubs and definitely more than Bayern and Juventus.

There are huge financial interests around the world invested in the PL that its promotion is vital to them. And if this continues the PL will become the de facto Superleague, no doubt about it.

It is not supply and demand. It is supply deciding what the demand is. Viasat (the owner NENT) is losing money on the short term because they invested insane money on the PL. There is no way that 6 year deal is profitable for them on the short term. But it might become profitable in 3/4 years if the PL reaches the status we are expecting it to reach in Sweden. And there are many initiatives around the PL, including fantasy games FPL and FIFA EA Sports, contributing to the promotion of the PL. So it is not a stupid bet.

When Mansour bought City, the Abu Dhabi sports group bought PL tv rights for the middle east -knowing they were losing money- and they drove the prices up, they kept driving them up and BeIN had to buy them at a much higher price the next time.

 

[wangyu]

"England has never been a favorite destination for football players" - that's odd because there's probably less English players in England than overseas players

Not many of the foreigners in England are world class. Correct me if I am wrong but who of the current greats have had a transfer to England at their peak level? Neymar? Messi?Lewandowski?Benzema? None of them...

Yes there was Cristiano but he was brought in as talent and left when he was world class, same for Suarez, same for Henry, same for Van Nistelrooy, same for Forlan etc
The only way you get world class players in the EPL is when they're looking for a final grand paycheck. Cristiano, Zlatan, Vialli, Shevshenko, Gullit, Schweinsteiger, Klinsmann when they have already dropped a level or two in quality etc
When foreign players reach their peak they're off to Barca or Real and when they were still great the big Italian teams.

This is just for the last 20 years. Before that foreigners were a rarity in England. Uncomparable with the Serie A for example who were able to attracts all the big stars in the world during the 80s and 90s (I'm not even starting a list of names there are just too many of them) just like what La Liga was doing but to a somewhat lesser extent. I remember at least 4 players of the mighty 1950s Hungarian national team that played in Spain, there was Di Stefano, Kubala, Breitner, Cruyff, Rep, Butragueno, Stoichkov, Laudrup, Simonsen, Litmanen, Kempes...

I mean I can go on, the list of names is endless. It is thanks to the incredible talent of British players over the years that English clubs have always maintained their competition for the big Spanish and Italian teams and not because they could attract world class foreign players because they clearly couldn't or were not willing to do so.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Not many of the foreigners in England are world class. Correct me if I am wrong but who of the current greats have had a transfer to England at their peak level? Neymar? Messi?Lewandowski?Benzema? None of them...

You can go on and on and all these players you mentioned went to only Barca and Real Madrid. As long as these two clubs can still offer one of the best wages in the industry top players will go to them due to the status, history, location of the club, and also the weather. No one is going to dispute that. However it does nothing to reduce the financial gap among the leagues in Europe.

Due to foreign investment there are top 6 clubs in EPL and soon to be top 7 with Newcastle, and it will make EPL even more competitive than before. Even clubs with resources like Man United, Liverpool and Chelsea can't guarantee CL qualification every season, let alone arsenal and Spurs.

ESL is a way out for these big clubs but it is bad for the small clubs in their domestic league. Who would pay broadcasting fee for la Liga and Serie A when u can watch real, barca and Juventus in ESL every week.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

The reason it's become the most popular league is because of it's competitiveness due to the distribution of TV money.

You can believe this if you want, but there is very little actual evidence for it. You've provided none.

It is just a comforting narrative for people because it tells them their/PL's wealth is a direct result of their moral virtue (their egalitarian desire to spread money evenly), helped out by the standard xenophobic bias that southerners/mediterranean people are hot-blooded idiots who don't understand money.

 

[Shai-Hulud]

TV rights value by league

League/Total	2022/23 Domestic TV Deal	2022/23 Overseas TV Deal
Premier League: €3.47bn	€1.67bn	€1.8bn
La Liga: €1.35bn	€350m	€1bn
Bundesliga: €1.35bn	€1.1bn	€250m
Serie A: €1.195bn	€970m	€225m
Ligue 1: €680m	€600m	€80m

Surprising numbers. The Spanish clubs get very little from their domestic market. The French league is interesting enough that it should get more than €80m from the foreign market.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

I'm not sure what the source for that number is. La Liga signed a domestic deal worth 4.95 billion euros over 5 seasons in 2021, which is almost 1 billion per season. That is the value that is listed in Wikipedia under "domestic football league broadcasts deals."

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

That's a myth, how exactly did the Premier League manage to become the dominant league financially then when it's never had the stars like Italy and Spain did during the 90s and 2000s?

You are responding to a post that said leagues depend on the strength of their top clubs, and that's not wrong.

I grew up in South America. When I started watching football in the early 00s, United and Arsenal had a similar standing as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, and Milan. Chelsea would soon be bought out and also be seen as a glamorous team. That is why the PL had standing there. It had nothing to do with the "competitiveness" of the overall league.

You are also downplaying the star quality of the PL at the time. From 1998 to 2008, there is a PL player in the top 5 of the Ballon d'Or votes every single year except for 2002. Henry, Beckham, Owen, Ruud, Lampard, Gerrard, were all highly regarded players.

Also, it is worth bringing up Chelsea again. The fact that two PL clubs, Chelsea and City, were bought by billionaires who turned them into some of the biggest, most succesful clubs in the country, makes it a terrible test case for 'increased competiveness due to equal distribution of TV deals.' It would be like if I wanted to study the health effects of a diet rich in seed oils and I chose to study a population that had nuclear waste dumped into their water reservoirs.

 

[Long Time Red]

You are responding to a post that said leagues depend on the strength of their top clubs, and that's not wrong.

I grew up in South America. When I started watching football in the early 00s, United and Arsenal had a similar standing as Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus, and Milan. Chelsea would soon be bought out and also be seen as a glamorous team. That is why the PL had standing there. It had nothing to do with the "competitiveness" of the overall league.

You are also downplaying the star quality of the PL at the time. From 1998 to 2008, there is a PL player in the top 5 of the Ballon d'Or votes every single year except for 2002. Henry, Beckham, Owen, Ruud, Lampard, Gerrard, were all highly regarded players.

Also, it is worth bringing up Chelsea again. The fact that two PL clubs, Chelsea and City, were bought by billionaires who turned them into some of the biggest, most succesful clubs in the country, makes it a terrible test case for 'increased competiveness due to equal distribution of TV deals.' It would be like if I wanted to study the health effects of a diet rich in seed oils and I chose to study a population that had nuclear waste dumped into their water reservoirs.

The Premier League had to develop it's own stars in the 90s and 2000s whereas La Liga and Serie A would just buy them.

Other than Ruud, all those players you listed above were developed.

None were bought as stars.

The whole reason Manchester United ascended to where it did was because of the class of 92 and was the only reason we were able to compete in Europe.

La Liga and Serie A are in a similar position to where the Premier League was 30 years ago and will have to adapt, innovate and produce their own stars and be better in the transfer market.

 

[troylocker]

CL KO-stage the last 5 years by country
England: 20
Spain: 17
Germany and Italy: 12
France: 8
Portugal: 5
Others: 6

CL QF-finalists the last 5 years by country
England:13
Spain: 10
Germany: 6
Italy: 4
France and Portugal: 3
Others: 1

CL SF-finalists the last 5 years by country
England: 7
Spain: 5
Germany and France: 3
Italy: 1
Others: 1

CL-finalists the last 5 years by country
England: 6
Spain: 2
Germany and France: 1

CL Champions the last 5 years by country:
England and Spain: 2
Germany: 1

EL QF-finalists the last 5 years by country:
England: 8
Spain: 7
Germany and Italy: 5
Portugla: 3
France: 2
Others: 10

EL SF-finalists the last 5 years by country:
England: 7
Spain: 4
Germany: 3
Italy: 2
France: 1
Others: 3

EL-finalists the last 5 years by country:
England and Spain: 3
Germany, Italy and France: 1
Others: 1

EL-winners the last 5 years by country:
Spain: 3
Germany and England: 1

It's not very hard to figure out which league(s) is most competitive or most appealing outside their respective countries. That the Broadcasting rights out of the country for EPL is 24 times more worth than for Ligue 1 is no surprise.