The shocking decline of Trent Alexander Arnold

Doracle

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I can see it being a tough decision whether to start TAA but it’s a no-brainer that he has to be in the squad. If we are a goal down in a knockout game, then you’d want him on the pitch, defensive frailties or not, for all his creativity.
 

cyberman

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I can see it being a tough decision whether to start TAA but it’s a no-brainer that he has to be in the squad. If we are a goal down in a knockout game, then you’d want him on the pitch, defensive frailties or not, for all his creativity.
They arent bringing on Trent over the attacking options they have on the bench.
 

DWelbz19

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Would be ridiculous to leave TAA at home. He’s so much better than Reece James I’m amazed it’s even a contest.
Honestly.

And the idea that we need defensive fullbacks is so mad to me. We have one of the better sides in the Euros. We should be going out there and attacking teams, not worrying about whether our right back might lose a 1 on 1 every now and again.
 

Adam-Utd

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They arent bringing on Trent over the attacking options they have on the bench.
If you've got a team pinned back and they're defending the centre of the pitch, I can't think of a better wide option right now to be honest.

his set piece delivery along with his crossing is the best in England. I'd definitely have him on the bench that's for sure.
 

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I would be surprised if he made the squad. His form has been erratic this season and international managers, especially Southgate, favour reliable performers.

Even amongst his decent performances, Alexander Arnold gives the ball away a lot, is often out of position and looks like the weak link defensively, which is some going considering the dregs they’ve had at the back at times this season.

Trippier, James and Walker will probably be the right sided defenders with their versatility also playing a part.
 

Berbasbullet

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The outrage from Liverpool fans on Twitter is hilarious. :lol:

I’d take him though, can’t leave that delivery at home especially when we score from so many crosses.
 

Bebestation

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I’m not the biggest fan of TAA but if we as a national team don’t get the chance to see the crosses of Shaw and TAA on either side then southgate should be sacked.
 

cyberman

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If you've got a team pinned back and they're defending the centre of the pitch, I can't think of a better wide option right now to be honest.

his set piece delivery along with his crossing is the best in England. I'd definitely have him on the bench that's for sure.
Sancho will be on the bench? Foden? Grealish? Even the RB in front of him are good going forward.
I see reasons why he could be brought but then other players have those reasons as well. Are we choosing Trent over Greenwood to stick on for a goal?
I just cant fathom having 3 rbs on the bench
 

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The outrage from Liverpool fans on Twitter is hilarious. :lol:

I’d take him though, can’t leave that delivery at home especially when we score from so many crosses.
Really? There's outrage? We're all secretly hoping he finally gets a long summer rest. Him and Robertson have looked knackered for months now. Won't be great for him personally but he's young enough to get other chances.

Just need the waistcoated genius to do his bit now.
 

Adam-Utd

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Sancho will be on the bench? Foden? Grealish? Even the RB in front of him are good going forward.
I see reasons why he could be brought but then other players have those reasons as well. Are we choosing Trent over Greenwood to stick on for a goal?
I just cant fathom having 3 rbs on the bench
You can only have so many attackers on the pitch at the same time. TAA can offer something very different that Grealish and the likes can offer.

Who is the joint record assister out of that list? it's TAA.
 

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Southgate was right to drop him earlier, but with him getting back in form it would be incredibly stupid to leave him home. Especially if he plans on using wingbacks.

Trippier is a decent player but he’s miles away from in-form Trent in terms of attacking input (and aside from his already mentioned crosses & set pieces he’s also a brilliant playmaker from the back). Walker should get in as he’s the best balanced option, but the second RB spot has to be Trent’s.

That said, I don’t care much about England and it would be hilarious to watch scouters complain if Trent doesn’t make the final team.
 

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According to the athletic, he's still not in Southgate's plans. He's got three other right backs he'd rather take.

It's genuinely bizarre. On form, he's one of the best players in the squad, let alone streets ahead of the other right backs.
Southgate has always been a conservative manager. He’s weary of players who might cost him a game, regardless of whether they’re more likely to win the game.
 

TwoSheds

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I think James has been a better crosser this year. Trent is second to none when it comes to pinging balls over the top though.
 

Zlatan 7

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I can see it being a tough decision whether to start TAA but it’s a no-brainer that he has to be in the squad. If we are a goal down in a knockout game, then you’d want him on the pitch, defensive frailties or not, for all his creativity.
I find it hysterical that England have foden, sancho, grealish, rashford, greenwood, Kane, Sterling and more but people think they better take Arnold incase they need a goal even though they have actual wingbacks they could use who can defend
 

Berbasbullet

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Really? There's outrage? We're all secretly hoping he finally gets a long summer rest. Him and Robertson have looked knackered for months now. Won't be great for him personally but he's young enough to get other chances.

Just need the waistcoated genius to do his bit now.
Yeah but those Twitter mentalists are taking it as a personal sleight. How dare the waistcoated man not rate the great Trent as highly as Trippier!

I’m with you I’m glad AWB is getting a breather.
 

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I find it hysterical that England have foden, sancho, grealish, rashford, greenwood, Kane, Sterling and more but people think they better take Arnold incase they need a goal even though they have actual wingbacks they could use who can defend
this 100%

I like TAA, but like you I can't believe people are saying we should be taking him in case we need a goal, it's absurd.
 

groovyalbert

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Not going to lie. I'd be more than happy for done of our best players to be left out of Euro squads after the season(s) they've just had to put themselves through, Rashford in particular.
 

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Yeah but those Twitter mentalists are taking it as a personal sleight. How dare the waistcoated man not rate the great Trent as highly as Trippier!

I’m with you I’m glad AWB is getting a breather.
Club fans really can't show the same enthusiasm for national teams. I would like England to win, obviously, but not at the cost of my club next season. If it's an either or call, then bye England.
 

RobinLFC

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this 100%

I like TAA, but like you I can't believe people are saying we should be taking him in case we need a goal, it's absurd.
The players mentioned would be replacing each other though. Foden, Grealish, Sancho, Sterling - first of all there can only be so many (probably two or three max) of them on the pitch at the same time and even if you're chasing a game and bring someone like Foden on, you're likely taking Sancho or Grealish off which means like for like creativity. If you have the option to bring TAA on for Trippier or Walker you get an attacking threat on top of your attacking players (and are more likely to overwhelm your opponents with players in their half).

Imo debate on whether he should start is fair but his inclusion in the squad should be a no-brainer.
 

Zlatan 7

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Club fans really can't show the same enthusiasm for national teams. I would like England to win, obviously, but not at the cost of my club next season. If it's an either or call, then bye England.
Speak for yourself
 

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As an England fan I want him in the squad but it would probably do him a load of good to have a summer off.

I don't know his numbers but I get they're similar to Mount, who has played more than 100 games in the past two seasons and it will be the second year in a row he doesn't get a proper rest over the summer.
 

Zlatan 7

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The players mentioned would be replacing each other though. Foden, Grealish, Sancho, Sterling - first of all there can only be so many (probably two or three max) of them on the pitch at the same time and even if you're chasing a game and bring someone like Foden on, you're likely taking Sancho or Grealish off which means like for like creativity. If you have the option to bring TAA on for Trippier or Walker you get an attacking threat on top of your attacking players (and are more likely to overwhelm your opponents with players in their half).

Imo debate on whether he should start is fair but his inclusion in the squad should be a no-brainer.
If say if England are chasing a goal it’s probably going to be against decent opposition as to be fair they usually walk over the smaller teams, and if you’re chasing a goal against France or the like then I’d want a better defender than Arnold covering that break away from the opposition.

what is Arnold going to do just pump long ball after long ball into the box for kane? That’s not really how England have played, plus Arnold never plays as a wing back does he? So he’d be going into a role where England are chasing a goal when he’s not even familiar with the role.

fair enough if England didn’t have other options but they are stacked with talent in that position
 

cyberman

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You can only have so many attackers on the pitch at the same time. TAA can offer something very different that Grealish and the likes can offer.

Who is the joint record assister out of that list? it's TAA.
But Trent has bever assisted a goal for England from the stats I see. Which is another problen of his, he doesnt play well for england anyway.
What Trent offers offensively against what Grealish etc do is less in every way.
 

B20

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But Trent has bever assisted a goal for England from the stats I see. Which is another problen of his, he doesnt play well for england anyway.
What Trent offers offensively against what Grealish etc do is less in every way.
As many big chances created as Grealish this season. Obviously the best set piece taker Southgate could choose. Has the best delivery of any he could choose.

He's one of the best players England has. It's a case where you pick him and then figure out how to use him. Not wonder if he should get the nod ahead of players like James or Trippier.

It's a failure of forward thinking, the mentality of a limited and fearful manager.

As a Liverpool fan, it'd be good for him to get a proper rest this summer. It's weird to see one of the few players who are genuinely world class when in form be overlooked based on a football mentality that should have been left behind in the 90s. You can be sure that every world class coach in the game would find a place for him in that team. That Southgate is contemplating not even taking him to euros is something beyond conservative.
 

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Southgate has always been a conservative manager. He’s weary of players who might cost him a game, regardless of whether they’re more likely to win the game.
That's not entirely true. For a while the England team was essentially built round Trent and the other Liverpool players. We played the 4-3-3 and we averaged 4 goals a game in European Championship qualifying and scored the most goals of any side in that campaign. It made sense on the surface as we had Trent, Gomez, Henderson and the Ox along with other workhorse type midfielders and dynamic wide forwards.

I think the first red flag was in the Nations League semi final against Holland when they pinned us in our half with the high press. Rice as the 6 just wasn't good enough on the ball to play that position and beat the high press. England doesn't have a De Jong type midfielder to play that key position in the formation. I think what killed that formation for Southgate was the 5-3 victory against Kosovo. We looked deadly in attack but really easy to play through against a well coached but unremarkable side.

Since then he's become more conservative with the 3-4-3 formation. I think it's based on the estimation that we're not good enough in centre midfield or at the back to be playing joga bonito against top sides coupled with very few international sides taking that approach anyway. In this formation you are more defensively secure and you can play two number 10 type players which suits Foden, Mount and Grealish. With 3 at the back we can also make more use of the high talent concentration at right back by using one of them as a right sided centre back in the three.

Referring back to the first point, even when the team was built for Trent he was invariably garbage for us. It's hard to justify his inclustion simply based on what he does for a different team.
 
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Adam-Utd

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But Trent has bever assisted a goal for England from the stats I see. Which is another problen of his, he doesnt play well for england anyway.
What Trent offers offensively against what Grealish etc do is less in every way.
Sancho hasn't played well for England either? do we leave him at home too?
 

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Honestly.

And the idea that we need defensive fullbacks is so mad to me. We have one of the better sides in the Euros. We should be going out there and attacking teams, not worrying about whether our right back might lose a 1 on 1 every now and again.
Agreed. It's part of the whole strategy for the team - is Southgate going to set the team up to take control of games? Or will Southgate revert to type (eg Croatia 2018) of the classic post-2000 England thing of being hard to beat and relying on a goal out of nothing up top? Playing to their strengths surely means using Foden, Mount, Grealish if fit, as part of an overall plan to dominate the ball. And in such a system TAA becomes more valuable. As you say, there isn't a debate elsewhere between defensive or attacking full-backs, as any elite club contesting for Champions Leagues of the last 15 years or so uses attack-minded full-backs positioned as high as possible. My only concern would be the injury to Gomez who was so effective at playing a high line and covering the space behind down the right hand side of the defence. But Southgate has plenty of options, and plenty of learning from the hugely successful City and Liverpool sides of recent years, giving him all the answers there.
 

DWelbz19

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Agreed. It's part of the whole strategy for the team - is Southgate going to set the team up to take control of games? Or will Southgate revert to type (eg Croatia 2018) of the classic post-2000 England thing of being hard to beat and relying on a goal out of nothing up top? Playing to their strengths surely means using Foden, Mount, Grealish if fit, as part of an overall plan to dominate the ball. And in such a system TAA becomes more valuable. As you say, there isn't a debate elsewhere between defensive or attacking full-backs, as any elite club contesting for Champions Leagues of the last 15 years or so uses attack-minded full-backs positioned as high as possible. My only concern would be the injury to Gomez who was so effective at playing a high line and covering the space behind down the right hand side of the defence. But Southgate has plenty of options, and plenty of learning from the hugely successful City and Liverpool sides of recent years, giving him all the answers there.
In which case someone like Walker is probably more effective in such a system. Totally not the right call, though.

Little off-topic, but I'm quite interested in what he does out wide. Sterling and [to a lesser degree] Rashford have both been in poor form in '21 (Sterling for pretty much the entire season), whilst the likes of Sancho and Foden have shot to life in the last few months. I think Mount is a cert through the middle. I'd be most worried about Grealish's position, honestly. He's the least established in Gareth's pecking order and he's had quite a lay-off.

As a NT manager -- do you start your established, tried and tested players, or do you go for those in the best form as of this minute?
 

cyberman

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Sancho hasn't played well for England either? do we leave him at home too?
Well he isnt going to start for a reason? Rumours were he wasnt actually going to make the squad from about 6 weeks back as well before he exploded back in form.
Trippier has 7 assists this season as well and he doesnt take set pieces while playing for a side leading La Liga in a defensively better set up while playing a lot better for England than Trent has. Why would Trent get ahead of him? Because hes had decent 6 weeks? Plus how many games will you actually be pegging sides back in anyway? You cant bring on a 3rd choice right back in edgey games to gain little offensively and suffer defensively imo.
 

TheLiverBird

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Well he isnt going to start for a reason? Rumours were he wasnt actually going to make the squad from about 6 weeks back as well before he exploded back in form.
Trippier has 7 assists this season as well and he doesnt take set pieces while playing for a side leading La Liga in a defensively better set up while playing a lot better for England than Trent has. Why would Trent get ahead of him? Because hes had decent 6 weeks? Plus how many games will you actually be pegging sides back in anyway? You cant bring on a 3rd choice right back in edgey games to gain little offensively and suffer defensively imo.
Trippier is quality

but Trent at his best trumps Trippier hands down by quite some way, Trents best is a class above Trippiers

Trent is by far the better “all round player”

He might not be king of just defending but all round, he is good at it though and offers a lot in attack

he’s not had his best season yet he’s got 2 league goals and 7 assists to his name to Trippiers 6 league assists

game time for England is limited in comparison to Club game time, obviously

so form for your Club is a major factor in wether you are selected or not, Trents form is back and he’s looking really good again, maybe not at his best yet but he’s in good form considering the season him and the Club have had

There is good competition for this position though from players that have had a more consistent season than Trent

but I’ll disagree with anyone that tells me our other options are better than Trent at his best, they just aren’t

I’ll admit consistency is what will make this a difficult decision

not his quality
 

Zlatan 7

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As many big chances created as Grealish this season. Obviously the best set piece taker Southgate could choose. Has the best delivery of any he could choose.

He's one of the best players England has. It's a case where you pick him and then figure out how to use him. Not wonder if he should get the nod ahead of players like James or Trippier.

It's a failure of forward thinking, the mentality of a limited and fearful manager.

As a Liverpool fan, it'd be good for him to get a proper rest this summer. It's weird to see one of the few players who are genuinely world class when in form be overlooked based on a football mentality that should have been left behind in the 90s. You can be sure that every world class coach in the game would find a place for him in that team. That Southgate is contemplating not even taking him to euros is something beyond conservative.
I’m still struggling to believe you think Arnold is streets ahead of Walker as a fullback
 

cyberman

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Trippier is quality

but Trent at his best trumps Trippier hands down by quite some way, Trents best is a class above Trippiers

Trent is by far the better “all round player”

He might not be king of just defending but all round, he is good at it though and offers a lot in attack

he’s not had his best season yet he’s got 2 league goals and 7 assists to his name to Trippiers 6 league assists

game time for England is limited in comparison to Club game time, obviously

so form for your Club is a major factor in wether you are selected or not, Trents form is back and he’s looking really good again, maybe not at his best yet but he’s in good form considering the season him and the Club have had

There is good competition for this position though from players that have had a more consistent season than Trent

but I’ll disagree with anyone that tells me our other options are better than Trent at his best, they just aren’t

I’ll admit consistency is what will make this a difficult decision

not his quality
There are better options. Its those 2 plus Reece James who has a great cross on him who also offers versatility as a wingback which is a better option for a 3rd choice RB surely? Then its on to tactics where Trent clearly suffered without hardworking protection around him and could be a reason why he hasnt done it for England. Kane etc arent going to cover for Trent nor should they. Then its if England going to play 2 bombing FBs either side against elite opposition and why would Gareth not focus the play down the left side which has the best attacking FB in europe this year.
If its Mason v Trent for the last spot then how can it be argued Trent is even having a better end to season to get in?
 

GlasgowCeltic

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In which case someone like Walker is probably more effective in such a system. Totally not the right call, though.

Little off-topic, but I'm quite interested in what he does out wide. Sterling and [to a lesser degree] Rashford have both been in poor form in '21 (Sterling for pretty much the entire season), whilst the likes of Sancho and Foden have shot to life in the last few months. I think Mount is a cert through the middle. I'd be most worried about Grealish's position, honestly. He's the least established in Gareth's pecking order and he's had quite a lay-off.

As a NT manager -- do you start your established, tried and tested players, or do you go for those in the best form as of this minute?
Foden and Grealish flanking Mount behind Kane for me, they're too good not to play if fit. Think itll be Sterling and Mount flanking Kane with two holding and a back five though.
 

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Makes no sense to bring Trippier, Walker and James when all of them offer largely the same qualities. At least TAA can provide something different from RB, even if he is in poor form.
 

RobinLFC

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fair enough if England didn’t have other options but they are stacked with talent in that position
Makes no sense to bring Trippier, Walker and James when all of them offer largely the same qualities. At least TAA can provide something different from RB
Exactly that.

If its Mason v Trent for the last spot then how can it be argued Trent is even having a better end to season to get in?
It won't come down to a striker/forward and a RB competing for the last spot.
 

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I would start Walker ahead of him against top opposition but he should go. If we are chasing a lead against a defensive side then a Arnold and DCL double sub is a great combo to throw on.
 

Zlatan 7

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Exactly that.


It won't come down to a striker/forward and a RB competing for the last spot.
Exactly what?

He’s not as good as the other 3 at defending but take him because he offers something different? But he never actually does when he’s played for England.
 

B20

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I’m still struggling to believe you think Arnold is streets ahead of Walker as a fullback
Maybe not streets ahead of Walker, though the others yes. Still a better player than Walker when both are fit and in form.
 

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Walker isnt good. He should be behind Trent, AWB, James in the pecking order and fighting it out with Matt Cash at Villa for 4th choice