The Three Leagues Draft - 2nd SF

Who will win with player peaks in the specified leagues (not career peaks)?

  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .

Enigma_87

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Wow what a turn around I think it was like 5-6 during the game. Commiseration to @Skizzo and @Pat_Mustard and no grudges held as always. Personally I think the formation that was posted near the end of the match should have been the starting one as it would've underlined your strengths better.

For the record I think most would've picked on that Moller/Totti combo from the start.
 

Skizzo

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Enigma_87 said:
Wow what a turn around I think it was like 5-6 during the game. Commiseration to @Skizzo and @Pat_Mustard and no grudges held as always. Personally I think the formation that was posted near the end of the match should have been the starting one as it would've underlined your strengths better.

For the record I think most would've picked on that Moller/Totti combo from the start.
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No hard feelings of course mate :) we knew we would be in for criticisms with the line up, and was part of a long discussion in PM beforehand. Thought we managed to explain it well enough, but obviously some disagreed.

Should be a good final with two good teams! Although don't let VDS start whatever you do :p
 

Enigma_87

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Chesterlestreet said:
A typical job for my proposed moderator, that: Demand an answer to that very question: Why exactly would it not work, or not work to a sufficient extent? Forget about proven combos and generic roles – look at the actual argument offered, and at the particular traits/skill sets of the players in question, and then undermine the thing.

For me the “proven” thing has always been a matter of personal preference, almost, when it comes to these drafts: You can choose to put a lot of emphasis on it – or you can choose to ignore it altogether (the latter being my natural inclination). Both are legitimate, as far as I'm concerned. But one thing should not be in doubt: It says nowhere that you have to field proven combos, or that you have to field players in roles they played in historically (to whatever degree).

The focus should be on what the manager claims will work/happen, based on his particular game plan. What is generically and/or historically true may be looked at to help undermine the arguments, but it can't be cited as some sort of irrefutable proof that a hypothetical/fantasy scenario would not unfold. The latter makes no sense whatsoever, and all it undermines is the very spirit of these little games: Use the evidence to demonstrate what sort of player X was, not to demonstrate what roles he played: The latter is irrelevant if the manager goes for an experimental set-up.
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I'm all up for that because I think a lot of points mix up in the debate. At some point yesterday I tried to explain in one post 3 points raised by physio, Skizzo and yourself and especially when the debate is going sometimes jumping from point to point doesn't help.

I've vowed it in the next idea as well. It's much cleaner just to make it as a bullet points or as you said the moderator asks the managers the questions posed and they put up the answer then we put it on the OP. Or something like that and it's up to the voters to judge. Otherwise we keep repeating ourselves over and over again and bore the voter a bit.

However I'm not sure how you can make that happen. To have a moderator I think he can't be involved in the draft otherwise it will undermine the credibility. I think Tuppet did something very good in one of his games, don't remember which one but he created it as a question and answers in the opening post. Maybe something like that, but it's up to the senior members to decide I guess.
 

Skizzo

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MJJ said:
:lol: Thats why I didnt vote in the gio-joga thread. Its hard not to vote against the team that you were just analyzing weaknesses of rather than judging it fairly.
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You should have taken those two with you to a corner somewhere :lol:

Haven't gotten anything from your opponent yet btw.
 

Enigma_87

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Skizzo said:
No hard feelings of course mate :) we knew we would be in for criticisms with the line up, and was part of a long discussion in PM beforehand. Thought we managed to explain it well enough, but obviously some disagreed.

Should be a good final with two good teams! Although don't let VDS start whatever you do :p
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I had about 5 or 6 possible formation including Mannini and Pogba as well. I've excluded the one you started with on the basis that I thought you'd never put them both in the same team and that would work.

The second formation was exactly what I'd thought you'd go with.

as for VDS I have another idea who to reinforce as I think is much needed, rather than the keeper. Chillavert IMO is comparable as a situation for Gio's team so hopefully won't be seen as a big disadvantage, but we'll leave that for the game.

Been a great game tho, well done both.
 

Chesterlestreet

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Enigma_87 said:
I'm all up for that because I think a lot of points mix up in the debate. At some point yesterday I tried to explain in one post 3 points raised by physio, Skizzo and yourself and especially when the debate is going sometimes jumping from point to point doesn't help.

I've vowed it in the next idea as well. It's much cleaner just to make it as a bullet points or as you said the moderator asks the managers the questions posed and they put up the answer then we put it on the OP. Or something like that and it's up to the voters to judge. Otherwise we keep repeating ourselves over and over again and bore the voter a bit.

However I'm not sure how you can make that happen. To have a moderator I think he can't be involved in the draft otherwise it will undermine the credibility. I think Tuppet did something very good in one of his games, don't remember which one but he created it as a question and answers in the opening post. Maybe something like that, but it's up to the senior members to decide I guess.
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Can - and should - be discussed further in the Next Draft thread, but yes: It's a potentially tricky thing. However, I think a possible way around at least some of the trickiness would be to agree on a model of sorts which the moderator has to stick to. In other words, he needs to stay within certain parameters, which would limit the possible impact of any bias - and would also make it possible to just share the moderator duty among non-playing managers and interested neutrals.
 

Theon

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Skizzo said:
:lol:

Good game @Enigma_87 good luck for the final! You too Gio!

Couldn't overcome the revenge votes from Edgar and Theon in the end :p
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:confused: I hope that bitterness isn't serious and I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Managers vote against each other all the time - it's all part and parcel of the game. I'm sure you've voted against me before and I wouldn't like to think that's anything to do with revenge/vendetta voting. Don't throw your toys out the pram.

I thought that Enigma had the better team. I think both sides started with incorrect formations but the difference is that he remedied it straight away whereas you played the majority of the match with your best player out of position.
 

Skizzo

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Theon said:
:confused: I hope that bitterness isn't serious and I genuinely have no idea what you're talking about. Managers vote against each other all the time - it's all part and parcel of the game. I'm sure you've voted against me before and I wouldn't like to think that's anything to do with revenge/vendetta voting. Don't throw your toys out the pram.

I thought that Enigma had the better team. I think both sides started with incorrect formations but the difference is that he remedied it straight away whereas you played the majority of the match with your best player out of position.
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:lol: im kidding mate. Did it sound like a personal attack on your integrity? No toys got thrown out of anything, so untwist your knickers and carry on :)
 

MJJ

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Skizzo said:
:lol: im kidding mate. Did it sound like a personal attack on your integrity? No toys got thrown out of anything, so untwist your knickers and carry on :)
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@Theon is lying, he even pmed me asking me to vote against you. I quote

"Knock the fecker out, thats twice he has bested my superior side and stolen pat away from me"
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Enigma_87 said:
Wow what a turn around I think it was like 5-6 during the game. Commiseration to @Skizzo and @Pat_Mustard and no grudges held as always. Personally I think the formation that was posted near the end of the match should have been the starting one as it would've underlined your strengths better.

For the record I think most would've picked on that Moller/Totti combo from the start.
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Congratulations mate. Aye, we knew we'd have our work cut out justifying the Totti/Moller combo, although I don't think we could have done much more to provide evidence for it. I'll be interested to see whether you're right and we don't rate it ourselves when the dust settles and we're looking back on this. It sure as feck doesn't feel that way in the heat of the moment :lol:

Cheers for organising the draft @Marty1968 . I really enjoyed all the research for this one, and it was nice to break our recent run of first round eliminations.
 

Enigma_87

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Pat_Mustard said:
Congratulations mate. Aye, we knew we'd have our work cut out justifying the Totti/Moller combo, although I don't think we could have done much more to provide evidence for it. I'll be interested to see whether you're right and we don't rate it ourselves when the dust settles and we're looking back on this. It sure as feck doesn't feel that way in the heat of the moment :lol:

Cheers for organising the draft @Marty1968 . I really enjoyed all the research for this one, and it was nice to break our recent run of first round eliminations.
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Thanks mate. One thing for sure - it was genuinely a surprise, and I thought I had that with Alaba in LCM :lol:
 

Marty1968

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Pat_Mustard said:
Congratulations mate. Aye, we knew we'd have our work cut out justifying the Totti/Moller combo, although I don't think we could have done much more to provide evidence for it. I'll be interested to see whether you're right and we don't rate it ourselves when the dust settles and we're looking back on this. It sure as feck doesn't feel that way in the heat of the moment :lol:

Cheers for organising the draft @Marty1968 . I really enjoyed all the research for this one, and it was nice to break our recent run of first round eliminations.
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No problem. After the teething problems initially I think it's been a cracker! Shame I can't do the next one.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Skizzo said:
:lol:

Good game @Enigma_87 good luck for the final! You too Gio!

Couldn't overcome the revenge votes from Edgar and Theon in the end :p
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The feck! :lol: I voted for you last round! And when I voted here it was 4 each or something.

Was busy and gave this only a passing glance whilst voting. I noticed late that VDS was playing and wanted to change my vote to you. Something came up and I forgot till now. Sorry!
 

Gio

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Pat_Mustard said:
Congratulations mate. Aye, we knew we'd have our work cut out justifying the Totti/Moller combo, although I don't think we could have done much more to provide evidence for it. I'll be interested to see whether you're right and we don't rate it ourselves when the dust settles and we're looking back on this. It sure as feck doesn't feel that way in the heat of the moment :lol:

Cheers for organising the draft @Marty1968 . I really enjoyed all the research for this one, and it was nice to break our recent run of first round eliminations.
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I tried to stay out of this one in the interests of neutrality, but it looked okay from here. I'm sure @Thisistheone and @Theon have had Totti operating well with multiple creative players in past drafts. My only preference would have been a 4-1-3-2 formation to give clear daylight between Moller and Totti, but that's marginal criticism at worst.
 

Enigma_87

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Gio said:
I tried to stay out of this one in the interests of neutrality, but it looked okay from here. I'm sure @Thisistheone and @Theon have had Totti operating well with multiple creative players in past drafts. My only preference would have been a 4-1-3-2 formation to give clear daylight between Moller and Totti, but that's marginal criticism at worst.
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I've went through some drafts but didn't see Totti playing at all in similar formation with similar personnel. The closest one was when he had Rivaldo(I think on the left) and 5-6 posts below it was commented right away that they will play in the same zone.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Gio said:
I tried to stay out of this one in the interests of neutrality, but it looked okay from here. I'm sure @Thisistheone and @Theon have had Totti operating well with multiple creative players in past drafts. My only preference would have been a 4-1-3-2 formation to give clear daylight between Moller and Totti, but that's marginal criticism at worst.
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Cheers Gio. Its hard to look at it objectively in the heat of the debate, but it still makes sense to me as a partnership. That said, I didn't even like the look of it at first glance myself when Skizzo and I first discussed it so it was always going to be a tough sell. Moller seems largely forgotten as a player as well which didn't help.
 
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