The Title Race 2017/18 | Done and dusted.

[Paul_Scholes18]

Luckily as supporters whatever we do or do not do has no bearing on the team's performance

As a collective we do. A positive atmosphere around the club can only help. That said as an individual our influence is not that big. Particular for those of us not living in England either.

 

[Bepi]

Can't understand some of the posts on here. All it takes is City drawing a couple and us winning at couple and its game on again. Honestly, some of you must have never seen Fergie's teams chase down a league leader.

This is a straw man perspective with a large credit here, though: City would still be stronger and deeper than United / Chelsea, even if their lead narrows to -4 / -2 or 0. The title is not assigned the night you or Chelsea catch them, is it? In the long run, the better overall quality & deeper roster prevails, bar unpredictable or disruptive events.

 

[Rory 7]

This is a straw man perspective with a large credit here, though: City would still be stronger and deeper than United / Chelsea, even if their lead narrows to -4 / -2 or 0. The title is not assigned the night you or Chelsea catch them, is it? In the long run, the better overall quality & deeper roster prevails, bar unpredictable or disruptive events.

Glad you clarified that. I'll instruct the FA to hand them the trophy during the week.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Wasn't it 8 points with 5 games left?

Anyway, much quoted, but I think that's a bit misleading since at the time, our (City) home form was ridiculous and one of your remaining games was coming to us. A game where you losing was always a strong possibility. I may be remembering it wrong, but I think we ended up P19, W18, D1, L0 at home that season?

Yes since you played us at home we could only drop 4 points in the other 5 ones. Still you would have thought we would manage 3 wins and 2 draws in those games.

That Wigan game though really fecked us. 1-0 defeat against a relegation fighting team cost us so much. It also gave you a lot of confidence and put pressure on us to win every game. 4-2 lead against Everton and the damn Fellaini scoring in the end making it 4-4 was terrible, but I think had we won against Wigan we would not have been so nervous in that game.

 

[Rory 7]

Because you have only halved the lead .. and City are effectively 9 points ahead because you are not going to match them on GD either. So now the scenario is City drawing 3 and losing one whilst United win all four, quite apart from matching them over the rest of the season. That's not even considering the ' all it takes ... ' comment, which totally omits form and squad depth as factors !
As for the 'Fergie chase teams down' comment : United usually had the best squad in those days and the competition was nowhere near the level of this City team/squad.

As per above. Thanks for clarifying. Good to know the race is over.

 

[Bepi]

Glad you clarified that. I'll instruct the FA to hand them the trophy during the week.

I agree it is a cold read but a disruptive event is in sight in the form of January transfer window, if United or Chelsea really care. So you are not wrong at all.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

We should also not underestimate the mental factors. Once they get that first defeat it can open up for other teams feeling more positive playing against them and they could also drop a bit in confidence and get some frustration. Pep is great tactically, but his biggest weakness is the mental side of the game. Hopefully we can take advantage of any poor form and put pressure on them!

 

[Hawks2008]

We have to keep up with them until we play them, and then we simply have to win. If not, it's a one horse race (if it isn't already).

 

[Ronetta]

Yes since you played us at home we could only drop 4 points in the other 5 ones. Still you would have thought we would manage 3 wins and 2 draws in those games.

That Wigan game though really fecked us. 1-0 defeat against a relegation fighting team cost us so much. It also gave you a lot of confidence and put pressure on us to win every game. 4-2 lead against Everton and the damn Fellaini scoring in the end making it 4-4 was terrible, but I think had we won against Wigan we would not have been so nervous in that game.

Funnily enough I called it at the time that you'd lose to Wigan. Everyone said I was mad, but I remember it well since Wigan had been playing really, really well. Martinez had them playing brilliant football and they'd beaten Liverpool away, and were robbed by terrible referreeing at Chelsea where they should have got a draw at least. They beat you lot (as you point out) and then went and beat Arsenal as well. It was always going to be a tough fixture going there with all the pressure on.

EDIT: You're right. You were 8 ahead with 6 to play. I had thought it was 8 and 5.

 

[Ronetta]

We have to keep up with them until we play them, and then we simply have to win. If not, it's a one horse race (if it isn't already).

I'd agree that if the gap is +11 after we've played you at OT, it's all over.

IF being the operative word! Who knows what will happen.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

We just need to keep winning our games and see what happens. And to stand any chance of winning the title we have to beat them in both fixtures. I think we've got a good chance of beating them at home but away at the Etihad will be tough.

 

[Ronetta]

We just need to keep winning our games and see what happens. And to stand any chance of winning the title we have to beat them in both fixtures. I think we've got a good chance of beating them at home but away at the Etihad will be tough.

It's what winners do. For me, the outcome of our head to heads will decide the title.

 

[The Irish Connection]

As a collective we do. A positive atmosphere around the club can only help. That said as an individual our influence is not that big. Particular for those of us not living in England either.

Judging from the tv, I thought the atmosphere in old Trafford was dead poor yesterday. It's a pity cos those are the type of games where you get less singers but it would be great if we could somehow encourage more singing.

Anyway, on topic, I said in September I'd be happy with top 3 in the league and a good cup run or two and I'm sticking by it, anything else is a bonus.
From the summer, we still need a good left back (fair play to Young, he's doing well but more of a stand in) and a top winger at least, so I think we're doing ok, but unless city get a few big injuries they look hard to stop.

 

[JASR]

None of those things factor in to what leads to a better squad. How much you sold Kolarov for isn't why Man City have the best squad in the league.

I was replying to someone about finances? And buying/selling.

But to answer your question.

City have the best squad in the league, this year, because:

1. There’s a core of great players who have been there for many years - aguero, Kompany, Silva, toure - and some slightly less like Fernandinho. And the togetherness of the squad, old and new, away from actual matches.

2. The squad has been considerably reenforced and made younger over the past 3 years with hardly any duff buys (14/15 was really bad) and many relative bargains, offset with many sold/let go.

3. The ability to not need to play a player every match. Ie no over reliance on individuals. A ‘2nd’ equivalent squad in effect.

4. A manager who can take a good individual player (new, recent or longtime) and make them a great team player.

5. A manager who can communicate attacking and solid defence (and to the fan - entertaining) ideas to the whole squad in training and see the fruits of that effort and time.

Off the top of my head.

 

[McGrathsipan]

All teams in the CL are not made equal.

A fellow PL & CL contender could get an easy draw whilst City end up fighting against a genuine top dog. That kind of clash can unsettle an entire club as it's impossible to ignore the hype and build-up, not to mention the pressure of pitting yourself against the best and verifying your own level.

Besides that, there's also the aspect of going deeper into the competition whilst your fellow title rivals fall by the wayside.

It takes a degree of experience and familiarity to not have one impact on the other. In fact, if anyone goes further than City in the CL and looks like they have a genuine chance of getting to the final, you may well see them abandon the league, or put it on the backburner in exactly the same manner we did last season with the EL.

I know what you mean but the same scenarios could happen to us or another team.

It's massive amount of luck that we need.
Maybe even City going to the last 4 of the CL and us getting knocked out earlier would benefit.

And there is no way City would abandon a shot at winning the league for the CL.

Us forgetting about top 4 was a no brainer.
The easier way to the same prize was thru the EL.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Funnily enough I called it at the time that you'd lose to Wigan. Everyone said I was mad, but I remember it well since Wigan had been playing really, really well. Martinez had them playing brilliant football and they'd beaten Liverpool away, and were robbed by terrible referreeing at Chelsea where they should have got a draw at least. They beat you lot (as you point out) and then went and beat Arsenal as well. It was always going to be a tough fixture going there with all the pressure on.

EDIT: You're right. You were 8 ahead with 6 to play. I had thought it was 8 and 5.

Jepp as you said they had good form. Still you had 2 draws and 1 defeat in the 3 games before that so we should have got a big confidence boost ahead of that game. Had we won it the title would have basically been won pretty much. We played really terrible though. They won the midfield and Rooney had a nightmare if I remember it right. With that said during the spell we didn't play good football in general and got smashed in the europa league. Lots of narrow wins before the Wigan game.

 

[Fortitude]

I know what you mean but the same scenarios could happen to us or another team.

It's massive amount of luck that we need.
Maybe even City going to the last 4 of the CL and us getting knocked out earlier would benefit.

And there is no way City would abandon a shot at winning the league for the CL.

Us forgetting about top 4 was a no brainer.
The easier way to the same prize was thru the EL.

That doesn't even have to be a conscious action - you get to the SF of the CL and some players may well play within themselves in the league trying to save themselves for the CL. The manager may even take that decision out of the hands of key players, which can equally unsettle a team.

I would also say that no club knows how it will react if the 'impossible' becomes a tangible possibility. The league is one thing, the CL is quantum leap above it in prestige. Manchester City's owners will have their eye on that prize over anything else. Not to say they bend Pep's ear about it, but at the same time, a serious chance at that prize can do very strange things to a club that is not used to being so far up the totem.

It wouldn't be the first time the CL has derailed a league campaign.

If I had to guess, I'd think they will have their eye on trying to get the league done and dusted as early as possible to focus on the CL. That's risky in itself because so much high intensity has the potential to fatigue players.

Anyway, the bottom line is everyone else has to do their job and be in touching distance to capitalise should any kind of unsettling occur. If they're not, all of this is redundant.

 

[Fortitude]

I’d say our more difficult away records in this league right now would be Leicester, Stoke, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Spurs, United. I’d say we have a reasonable record at the others. We’ve played 2/8 of those so far.

So do you feel like your problem teams will, in fact, be a problem this season, or is it bring on all-comers?

 

[RuudTom83]

If winning the title is the only way to enjoy a season, it might be a miserable season for lots of United fans.

BUT if United can keep a sustained chase going until the very end, then that will be good enough for me.

Don’t forget, just finishing in the top 4 has been a challenge since SAF retired.

 

[acnumber9]

I was replying to someone about finances? And buying/selling.

But to answer your question.

City have the best squad in the league, this year, because:

1. There’s a core of great players who have been there for many years - aguero, Kompany, Silva, toure - and some slightly less like Fernandinho. And the togetherness of the squad, old and new, away from actual matches.

2. The squad has been considerably reenforced and made younger over the past 3 years with hardly any duff buys (14/15 was really bad) and many relative bargains, offset with many sold/let go.

3. The ability to not need to play a player every match. Ie no over reliance on individuals. A ‘2nd’ equivalent squad in effect.

4. A manager who can take a good individual player (new, recent or longtime) and make them a great team player.

5. A manager who can communicate attacking and solid defence (and to the fan - entertaining) ideas to the whole squad in training and see the fruits of that effort and time.

Off the top of my head.

3 of those directly relate to your transfer spend and the last 2 are heavily dependent on signing better players. Which is why you weren't very good last season despite still probably having the best squad.

 

[Giant Midget]

If we're within 6 points come January 1, we'll win the league.

 

[antihenry]

Second would be a great achievement.

How's that a great achievement? You have the second most expensive squad in the league. Leicester winning the title in 2016 was an achievement.

 

[SkeppyRed]

City will wobble, we just have to make sure we can take advantage of it when it happens.

If anything is certain it's that things change very quickly in football.

 

[Manchester Dan]

If we're within 6 points come January 1, we'll win the league.

How come? Do you have easier fixtures?

Just interested.

 

[The Firestarter]

If we're within 6 points come January 1, we'll win the league.

Based on what? Or you are a psychic ?

 

[adexkola]

How's that a great achievement? You have the second most expensive squad in the league. Leicester winning the title in 2016 was an achievement.

How many points can a non-champion team accumulate in a season for it's position to be called great? Or is greatness only relevant if there is a trophy at the end of the season?

 

[antihenry]

How many points can a non-champion team accumulate in a season for it's position to be called great? Or is greatness only relevant if there is a trophy at the end of the season?

With the amount United spent over the last few years any position apat from the 1st place can't be considered great, in fact, if not winning the title, being a title contender under the circumstances should be viewed as an expectation rather than an achievement.

 

[Thunderhead]

If we're within 6 points come January 1, we'll win the league.

I see it slightly different as in if we're 3 points clear come the end of Jan (I expect) we'll piss the league

 

[TheReligion]

With the amount United spent over the last few years any position apat from the 1st place can't be considered great, in fact, if not winning the title, being a title contender under the circumstances should be viewed as an expectation rather than an achievement.

Don't get this. United haven't been a title challenger since SAF so if they now mount a challenge then of course it's an achievement as its an improvement.

 

[adexkola]

With the amount United spent over the last few years any position apat from the 1st place can't be considered great, in fact, if not winning the title, being a title contender under the circumstances should be viewed as an expectation rather than an achievement.

It was a more general question, not United specific, but fair enough. So what teams would this high bar of "league title or disappointing season" apply to?

I think that if you clear 90 points you've had a great season, whether you win the title or not. The title is a relative, not absolute marker of quality.

 

[manc exile]

Don't get this. United haven't been a title challenger since SAF so if they now mount a challenge then of course it's an achievement as its an improvement.

that would be an argument we could make if we (as a fanbase) hadn't said city should be title contenders in 09/10 and 10/11 and it would be a failure if they didnt win it, even though they hadnt been contenders for 30 years, not just 4. If we start using that argument now then we will look like cocks to anyone around 7/8 years ago

 

[antihenry]

It was a more general question, not United specific, but fair enough. So what teams would this high bar of "league title or disappointing season" apply to?

I think that if you clear 90 points you've had a great season, whether you win the title or not. The title is a relative, not absolute marker of quality.

United (£637m squad) and City (£690m) are in a league of their own when it comes to spending, so it's expected that two Manchester clubs should be contending. Chelsea (£453m) should be looking at the top four finish as a must and anything better as a bonus.

 

[adexkola]

United (£637m squad) and City (£690m) are in a league of their own when it comes to spending, so it's expected that two Manchester clubs should be contending. Chelsea (£453m) should be looking at the top four finish as a must and anything better as a bonus.

By that standard, Arsenal and Liverpool and Tottenham should be relatively immune from criticism this season. Obviously that will not happen.

 

[Sayan Roy]

Hi. City fan here. I was going through all the posts and I thought I should provide some input too.
The title race is certainly not over yet as some are claiming it to be. However, I what I believe that the 8 point gap would likely increase taking into account you guys have to play Watford and Arsenal away, both of which are relatively tough fixtures especially Arsenal. So, I think that even if we lose in the derby, we would have quite a healthy lead. But again, these are all predictions.
I also saw most posts regarding referee decisions that have gone for us and people are using that excuse as to why we are top.
Here is a link which will give you a better idea of what decisions have gone against us:
https://emojisarebald.com/2017/11/1...efereeing-favours-myth-balance-sheet-2017-18/
So, I believe, we absolutely deserve where we are at the moment and all these silly referee talk is nothing but just bitterness and jealousy which is understandable.

 

[TheReligion]

Hi. City fan here. I was going through all the posts and I thought I should provide some input too.
The title race is certainly not over yet as some are claiming it to be. However, I what I believe that the 8 point gap would likely increase taking into account you guys have to play Watford and Arsenal away, both of which are relatively tough fixtures especially Arsenal. So, I think that even if we lose in the derby, we would have quite a healthy lead. But again, these are all predictions.
I also saw most posts regarding referee decisions that have gone for us and people are using that excuse as to why we are top.
Here is a link which will give you a better idea of what decisions have gone against us:
https://emojisarebald.com/2017/11/1...efereeing-favours-myth-balance-sheet-2017-18/
So, I believe, we absolutely deserve where we are at the moment and all these silly referee talk is nothing but just bitterness and jealousy which is understandable.

That article is totally biased and skewed towards City. Come on now ha ha.

 

[Sayan Roy]

That article is totally biased and skewed towards City. Come on now ha ha.

If we are talking about this season, then I don't see how that's biased.

 

[minoo-utd]

Yes they are a great side a side that everyone one already gave them the league and made them champions while it's still 26 games to play not 10 no it is 26, injuries will happen things will happen, remember SAF days and have faith we have a good squad and it finally can compete, all we have to do is to keep chasing them keep fighting and just do what upon us, first game against them is at Old.Trafford things can change by then.

 

[TheReligion]

If we are talking about this season, then I don't see how that's biased.

The moment it called City a 'great team' I knew it was utter bollocks to be fair.

A great team that's won the sum total of feck all.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Hi. City fan here. I was going through all the posts and I thought I should provide some input too.
The title race is certainly not over yet as some are claiming it to be. However, I what I believe that the 8 point gap would likely increase taking into account you guys have to play Watford and Arsenal away, both of which are relatively tough fixtures especially Arsenal. So, I think that even if we lose in the derby, we would have quite a healthy lead. But again, these are all predictions.
I also saw most posts regarding referee decisions that have gone for us and people are using that excuse as to why we are top.
Here is a link which will give you a better idea of what decisions have gone against us:
https://emojisarebald.com/2017/11/1...efereeing-favours-myth-balance-sheet-2017-18/
So, I believe, we absolutely deserve where we are at the moment and all these silly referee talk is nothing but just bitterness and jealousy which is understandable.

It is quite clear that you have had a lot of luck with the referee so far this season in key times. Although it might not have made massive difference. Think you would have beaten Arsenal anyway no doubt. Mane red was probably correct as well and think you would have won that game. Against Bournemouth you got really lucky with the time that I think was the biggest favor. Also Kompany should have been off against Leicester. At the same time the Walker red card could have been a yellow. I think if everything was correct you would have had 2 points less at least, but you can never know for sure.

 

[Sayan Roy]

It is quite clear that you have had a lot of luck with the referee so far this season in key times. Although it might not have made massive difference. Think you would have beaten Arsenal anyway no doubt. Mane red was probably correct as well and think you would have won that game. Against Bournemouth you got really lucky with the time that I think was the biggest favor. Also Kompany should have been off against Leicester. At the same time the Walker red card could have been a yellow. I think if everything was correct you would have had 2 points less at least, but you can never know for sure.

This is a more unbiased opinion I have seen so far from a Utd fan. In truth, we are at the top because we deserve to be there. But some on here just attribute that to the referee decisions and that's why I wanted to give show that more things had gone against us than for. Same has happened to United for years but that hasn't stopped you from claiming you were the best team.