The top tier of greatest teams ever

[matbezlima]

For me, the top tier of greatest national teams ever is formed by:

Hungary 1950-1954.
Brazil 1958-1962.
Brazil 1970.
Germany 1972-1974
Holland 1974.
Brazil 1982.
France 1998-2000.
Spain 2008-2012.

For me, the top tier of greatest club teams ever is formed by:

Real Madrid 1955-1960.
Santos 1960-1969.
Ajax 1970-1973.
Milan 1988-1990.
Barcelona 2008-2012.

 

[adexkola]

Cool story man.

 

[NoneBmStore]

Silkeborg IF in 1994 had a pretty good team.

 

[Pink Moon]

Why Ajax's 70's side but not Bayern's that also won 3 European Cup's in a row?

For me the best ever club side is Pep's Barca and the best ever international side is that Spain side. I think they were at their absolute best in 2012. The way they took Italy apart in the final of Euro 2012 was so impressive.

 

[SilentStrike]

I have a hard time respecting Milan 1990 after I watched some hightlights of them the other day and came across that completely disgraceful shitshow performance of the referees during both of the semi-final legs against Bayern Munich, where Bayern got robbed.

Their reputation grew greatly for being the last team to successfully defend their CL title for 27 years until 2017, but that really should have never happened.

It was probably even more disgraceful than the infamous Barca - Chelsea of 2009.

Funny enough both Milan 1990 and Barca 2009 are now considered among the greatest teams, when it really should have been Bayern and Chelsea to advance to each final.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Surely Madrid team winning 3 CL in a row (total 4 CL) should be in the list too? Although domestically Barca was better.

1. Real Madrid 1955-1960 (5 CL, domestic/European domination)
2. Barca 2008-2011 (2 CL, most attractive passing football)
3. Real Madrid 2014-2018 (4 CL, European domination)
4. Ajax 1970-1973 (3 CL, total football)
5. Bayern 1974-1976 (3 CL, best Germany era)
6. Milan 1988-1990 (2 CL, many star players)

 

[harms]

Why Ajax's 70's side but not Bayern's that also won 3 European Cup's in a row?

There's an argument that Bayern wasn't even the best German side of the 70's. They also finished 10th in one of those European Cup winning seasons. Ajax was simply better, as they've proved in 1972/73 (the next year was the supposed peak of that Bayern team) by completely dismantling them at Amsterdam. Don't get me wrong, it was still an amazing side (peak Beckenbauer & Müller with the likes of Maier and young Breitner being around), but they're not quite at the level of that Ajax. The national side, with the best players from both Munich and Mönchengladbach though

 

[harms]

Perhaps an unpopular option, but there's an argument for Peñarol, which was chosen as the South American Club of the Century by IFFHS ahead of the likes of Santos. They had also won 2 International Cups beating Eusebio's Benfica in 1961 (1:0 loss, 5:0 win and a 2:1 win in a play-off) and Gento's Real Madrid in 1966 (two 2:0 wins over both legs).

 

[Peyroteo]

Surely Madrid team winning 3 CL in a row (total 4 CL) should be in the list too? Although domestically Barca was better.

They'll get a lot more respect a few decades from now when nobody's come close to replicating 4 CLs in 5 years in its current format. They didn't have the best squad out of the teams mentioned and they weren't the best team either but achievements wise they aren't behind anyone.

 

[stubie]

Milan 1991-96
Juventus 1994-1998

 

[Invictus]

Pre-World War II teams are almost entirely discredited in modern classifications because of the lack of extensive video-based evidence, but Uruguay and Italy were anecdotally quite revolutionary and obviously very, very accomplished — and probably should be considered among the greatest teams.

The bulk of the 1930 World Cup winning Uruguayan team also won two consecutive Olympic Gold medals and 3 Campeonato Sudamericano titles in 4 years. And the likes of Scarone, Andrade and Nasazzi were the equivalents of Pelé or Beckenbauer for that era.

Italy won two consecutive World Cups, an Olympic Gold medal and a Mitropa Cup from 1933 to 1938, and had their own legendary figures in Meazza (arguably the greatest player to grace the sport prior to the ascent of Di Stéfano and Puskás) and Pozzo (who left an indelible tactical mark on football with the Metodo advancement)...

The 2-3-2-3 formation was born...or 'Il Metodo', which is a much, much cooler name. Il Metodo would be the tactical innovation that would unlock the generational talents of Giuseppe Meazza, make Italy defensively impenetrable, win the country two consecutive FIFA World Cups, and - perhaps most importantly - change the Italian tactical outlook on calcio.

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/07/1...za-difficult-memory-two-time-world-cup-winner

For the club teams, you could have Peñarol (previously mentioned by @harms) or River's La Máquina in addition to Santos for the South American branch.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Regarding Utd, does anyone think that they are sometimes actually 'penalised' in discussions like this, because of how incredibly prolonged their success was under Fergie, and because they re-built after a few seasons of transition? Winning one of top leagues in the world (when they won 3 in a row from 2007-2009 it was clearly the top league in the world) almost two thirds of the time in period of just over two decades, and never coming close to finishing outside the top 3 during the seasons when they didn't win it, was incredible. I guess you could break into down in periods from 1995-2003 when they won 6 league titles, 1 Champions League (and reached 7 consecutive quarter-finals from 1997-2003), 2 FA Cups and 1 Intercontinental Cup during that period. and then 2006-2013 when they won 5 league titles (and the took the title race to the final day of the season on the other 2 occasions), 1 Champions League (and reached another 2 finals plus an additional semi-final and quarter-final in the 5 consecutive years from 2007-2011), 2 League Cups and 1 Club World Cup within 7 seasons.

Regarding Ajax in the 70s, I need to find some clips of their all-conquering treble winning season in 1971/1972.

On the subject of Gerd Muller who was mentioned earlier, he scored braces in the following big matches:

1969 DFB-Pokal Semi-Final vs. Nurnberg
1969 DFB-Pokal Final vs. Schalke
1970 World Cup Semi-Final vs. Italy
1972 European Championship Semi-Final vs. Belgium
1972 European Championship Final vs. Soviet Union
1974 European Cup Final vs. Atletico Madrid
1976 European Cup Semi-Final vs. Real Madrid

In the 1974 World Cup final vs. the Netherlands, of course he scored what turned out to be the winning goal near the end of the first half. But in the second half, he had a perfectly legitimate second goal wrongly disallowed for offside, otherwise he would have scored braces in World Cup, European Championship, European Cup and DFB-Pokal finals and semi-finals.

 

[matbezlima]

I have a hard time respecting Milan 1990 after I watched some hightlights of them the other day and came across that completely disgraceful shitshow performance of the referees during both of the semi-final legs against Bayern Munich, where Bayern got robbed.

Their reputation grew greatly for being the last team to successfully defend their CL title for 27 years until 2017, but that really should have never happened.

It was probably even more disgraceful than the infamous Barca - Chelsea of 2009.

Funny enough both Milan 1990 and Barca 2009 are now considered among the greatest teams, when it really should have been Bayern and Chelsea to advance to each final.

You did not watch the full matches of Milan against Bayern in 1990, did you? Please, watch.

 

[montpelier]

Can I throw in Red Star Belgrade of 1991.

Some array of names in the CL Final team and it doesn't look like Pancev played.

Were very defensive in the Final which was out of character.

Souness at Rangers had them scouted by Walter Smith for the R2 game. And WS is alleged to have offered up "We're fecked."

 

[Josh 76]

They'll get a lot more respect a few decades from now when nobody's come close to replicating 4 CLs in 5 years in its current format. They didn't have the best squad out of the teams mentioned and they weren't the best team either but achievements wise they aren't behind anyone.

4 CL in 5 years sounds crazy now. Not sure how it will sound in years to come.

 

[SilentStrike]

You did not watch the full matches of Milan against Bayern in 1990, did you? Please, watch.

I did not watch the full match. How abour you explain it to me then, rather than just say "please, watch" and walk away from any explanation/argument.

I also do not see how watching a full match will change the fact that ALL of Milan's goals in both ties should have been disallowed. And for them to then advance a.e.t. on away goals (which again, should have been disallowed) does not help either.

Again, I was watching highlights of Milan out of respect for great teams as well as the great Dutch trio playing there. But I could not help the fact that I felt they robbed Bayern big time. And without defending their title, and especcially being the last to defend it in almost 3 decades, history would have memorized them as a much lesser team.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Feyenoord 2002.

I know it's not true, but Pep's Barca and that Milan team with Van Basten have received enough praise.

In 2002 Van Hooijdonk converted free kicks like they were penalties. It was amazing and it was the last time a Dutch team won European honors.

 

[do.ob]

Pre-World War II teams are almost entirely discredited in modern classifications because of the lack of extensive video-based evidence, but Uruguay and Italy were anecdotally quite revolutionary and obviously very, very accomplished — and probably should be considered among the greatest teams.

The bulk of the 1930 World Cup winning Uruguayan team also won two consecutive Olympic Gold medals and 3 Campeonato Sudamericano titles in 4 years. And the likes of Scarone, Andrade and Nasazzi were the equivalents of Pelé or Beckenbauer for that era.

Italy won two consecutive World Cups, an Olympic Gold medal and a Mitropa Cup from 1933 to 1938, and had their own legendary figures in Meazza (arguably the greatest player to grace the sport prior to the ascent of Di Stéfano and Puskás) and Pozzo (who left an indelible tactical mark on football with the Metodo advancement)...

https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/07/1...za-difficult-memory-two-time-world-cup-winner

For the club teams, you could have Peñarol (previously mentioned by @harms) or River's La Máquina in addition to Santos for the South American branch.

It's not just because of video evidence, those teams were amateurs during a time when the sport as a whole was in its cradle.

e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Eklind

even if we leave aside the ability inflation that comes with time I find it hard to compare these matches to the post war era.

 

[matbezlima]

I did not watch the full match. How abour you explain it to me then, rather than just say "please, watch" and walk away from any explanation/argument.

I also do not see how watching a full match will change the fact that ALL of Milan's goals in both ties should have been disallowed. And for them to then advance a.e.t. on away goals (which again, should have been disallowed) does not help either.

Again, I was watching highlights of Milan out of respect for great teams as well as the great Dutch trio playing there. But I could not help the fact that I felt they robbed Bayern big time. And without defending their title, and especcially being the last to defend it in almost 3 decades, history would have memorized them as a much lesser team.

First, that Milan team was as amazing as everyone says. Their revolution and impact was way beyond their titles, though winning the UCL two consecutive times added a lot to the glamour. They were undeniably a special team and the best team in the world. Second, Milan bossed the first leg despite only winning 1-0. I think that there were potentially penalties not given, Bayern did not create a single chance and Milan was tremendously wasteful in front of the goal, a problem that had already happened in the second leg against Mechelen in the quarter-final.


About the second leg, I'm not sure if Borgonovo's goal was offside, there is not a good camera angle, but the same Borgonovo missed one of the easiest goals in history and Milan was superior in the match, specially the first half. Anyway, if you look well enough, virtually all of the great historical teams had controversial crucial moments in some of their titles. In the 1989 title, Milan got past through Werder Bremen with a dubious penalty. But the same Milan had a goal wrongly ruled out against Real in the 1-1 draw, first leg of 1989 semi-finals.

Also, I want to know what you think of this below, when Milan played against Real in the 1989-1990 Round Of 16. This is the first leg, which Milan won 2-0. What do you think about Milan's second goal, coming from a penalty? The referee was wrong in signaling the penalty since and it was a foul outside the box, but at the same time he did not send off Real's goalkeeper, Buyo, and Buyo's intervention saved Real from a sure goal. If Buyo did had not fouled Van Basten, Van Basten would be clean in front of the goal to score. We need common sense. Look below:


And Barcelona 2009 was a truly amazing team, a single game, no matter how influential and important, does not fantastic they were otherwise in the other games of the season. Bar Chelsea, they destroyed every team in that season

 

[matbezlima]

4 CL in 5 years sounds crazy now. Not sure how it will sound in years to come.

I classify Ancelloti's Real and Zidane's Real as different teams. Don't get why people mash them together.

 

[TsuWave]

I begrudge that Barcelona team so much

If it wasn’t for them it would have been us. 3 CL finals in 4 years. We had one hell of a team, and to me our team then is one of the best football club sides of all time. History/others don’t much care for runner-ups though.

 

[adexkola]

I begrudge that Barcelona team so much

If it wasn’t for them it would have been us. 3 CL finals in 4 years. We had one hell of a team, and to me our team then is one of the best football club sides of all time. Simpletons don’t much care for runner-ups though.

Fixed

 

[Peyroteo]

I classify Ancelloti's Real and Zidane's Real as different teams. Don't get why people mash them together.

It's pretty much the same players, the core of that team goes a long way back. From 2012 to 2018: out of 7 CLs they won 4, lost to Bayern in the semifinals on penalties, lost to Dortmund in the semifinals 4-3 and lost to Juve in the semifinals 3-2. 2 goals and a penalty shootout away from being to 7 consecutive CL finals, they should have won all 3 semifinals they lost in that period.

 

[Dave Smith]

Personally, I think this is too hard to answer properly as there are too many variables as some teams played in an era that predates video/european/international football, some played in eras that has weak peers, transfers in previous decades were domestic or even city based, some teams got lucky etc. As a result, the only things you can really put things down to are trophies, which means that if you attempt all time you cannot really go beyond Real 1956-60 and Brazil 1958-70. After that I really think you have to go by decades and then caveat the difference between pre and post war eras.

That said, one team I do not have much respect for are Barca cira 2009-15. For me the referring decisions they got in that time were too much, people talk about the Chelsea game as if it was an isolated incident when in fact it was just the most egregious. Further, like Liverpool, they have that arrogant nonsense about being 'more than a club' and think of themselves as particularly special/superior.

 

[berbasloth4]

if that barca team wasnt around would we have been talked off in the same breath as the rest. Our 1998-01 side and the 3 finals outta 4 side deserve mentioned the later obviously not the best cause barca was there. Its like Nadal would be down as the greatest tennis player ever but federer is there doesnt make him not one the best.

 

[matbezlima]

Personally, I think this is too hard to answer properly as there are too many variables as some teams played in an era that predates video/european/international football, some played in eras that has weak peers, transfers in previous decades were domestic or even city based, some teams got lucky etc. As a result, the only things you can really put things down to are trophies, which means that if you attempt all time you cannot really go beyond Real 1956-60 and Brazil 1958-70. After that I really think you have to go by decades and then caveat the difference between pre and post war eras.

That said, one team I do not have much respect for are Barca cira 2009-15. For me the referring decisions they got in that time were too much, people talk about the Chelsea game as if it was an isolated incident when in fact it was just the most egregious. Further, like Liverpool, they have that arrogant nonsense about being 'more than a club' and think of themselves as particularly special/superior.

That Barcelona team played the best football I ever saw. Their technical level was beyond anything seen before or after. No wonder teams were so scared to play against them. The 5-0 against Real Madrid was, in my opinion, the ultimate football performance when it comes to technical level. They were awe-inspiring and by far the best team in the world beyond doubt.

And if you thinking about the Arsenal tie in 2011, Arsenal did not shoot once in the entire second leg and were so badly outclassed. Barcelona had also a goal wrongly ruled out as offside in the first leg. Barcelona played great in that 2-1 defeat, they lost because they became too complacent in the second half with a 1-0 victory instead of trying to kill Arsenal once and for all (Barcelona let their own hype go to their heads and thought that they were going to win by inertia), while Arsenal had very good technical quality, specially in that match, and never stopped believing shocking Barcelona with a fast comeback. Overall, the first leg of Arsenal against Barcelona was one of the greatest games I watched with crazily high technical level in constant display. In these times of quarantine, I highly recommend that match

 

[Harry190]

You never saw those teams perform OP. Stop pretending.

 

[Winrar]

Think the Bayern treble side deserves a mention here somewhere. They came back with a vengeance after finishing everything runners up the year prior and were utterly ruthless. Their finest moment was systematically dismantling a close to peak Barca side that easily won the league that year and were one of the favorites to win CL.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Think the Bayern treble side deserves a mention here somewhere. They came back with a vengeance after finishing everything runners up the year prior and were utterly ruthless. Their finest moment was systematically dismantling a close to peak Barca side that easily won the league that year and were one of the favorites to win CL.

That Bayern team had incredible tactical versatility. I think that they had the second best possession and pass completion stats in Europe after Barcelona that season. They had the ability to press high up the pitch, or sit deeper and spring rapid counter-backs. It was like they had an ideal combination of skill, speed and strength.

Of the 5 trebles that I've seen, Bayern's in 2013 was definitely the most dominant.

Utd's in 1998/1999 was of course the most exciting and dramatic across all 3 competitions, with the thrilling title race including coming from a goal down to beat Tottenham on the final day, FA Cup drama against Liverpool and Arsenal, CL drama against Juventus and Bayern etc, but that's not to downplay the tremendous quality of course.

Barca in 2008/2009 had the controversy at Stamford Bridge in their CL semi-final, and 'wobbled' slightly when they had opportunity to secure the La Liga title themselves at the Camp Nou, failing to hold on to a 3-1 lead at home to Villarreal. The champagne was put on ice although a week later they were champions after Real Madrid lost away to Valencia.

In 2009/2010 Inter from memory had a 13 point lead over Roma in Serie A just past the halfway stage, before Roma pegged them back and moved 1 point ahead with 4 games left, but lost at home Sampdoria, allowing Inter to regain the lead and seal the title on the final day of the season.

Barca in 2014/2015 looked to be in crisis around the turn of the year, especially after that defeat to Moyes's Real Sociedad, with Enrique and Messi reportedly feuding, Enrique constantly chopping and changing tactics and close to getting sacked, before he settled on a fixed starting line-up with Messi on the right and Suarez in the centre, and that front 3 became unplayable during the 2nd half of the season.

In 2012/2013 Bayern were just a ruthless, unstoppable, all conquering juggernaut. Yes that they had that scare against Arsenal in their CL last 16 tie, and they were clearly complacent going into the 2nd leg, but I did think they were the clearly the better team over the 2 legs and so weren't lucky to go through.

 

[The Urban Goose]

For me the best ever club side is Pep's Barca and the best ever international side is that Spain side. I think they were at their absolute best in 2012. The way they took Italy apart in the final of Euro 2012 was so impressive.

That was certainly a great EPOch for Spanish football.

 

[hasanejaz88]

That Bayern team had incredible tactical versatility. I think that they had the second best possession and pass completion stats in Europe after Barcelona that season. They had the ability to press high up the pitch, or sit deeper and spring rapid counter-backs. It was like they had an ideal combination of skill, speed and strength.

Of the 5 trebles that I've seen, Bayern's in 2013 was definitely the most dominant.

Utd's in 1998/1999 was of course the most exciting and dramatic across all 3 competitions, with the thrilling title race including coming from a goal down to beat Tottenham on the final day, FA Cup drama against Liverpool and Arsenal, CL drama against Juventus and Bayern etc, but that's not to downplay the tremendous quality of course.

Barca in 2008/2009 had the controversy at Stamford Bridge in their CL semi-final, and 'wobbled' slightly when they had opportunity to secure the La Liga title themselves at the Camp Nou, failing to hold on to a 3-1 lead at home to Villarreal. The champagne was put on ice although a week later they were champions after Real Madrid lost away to Valencia.

In 2009/2010 Inter from memory had a 13 point lead over Roma in Serie A just past the halfway stage, before Roma pegged them back and moved 1 point ahead with 4 games left, but lost at home Sampdoria, allowing Inter to regain the lead and seal the title on the final day of the season.

Barca in 2014/2015 looked to be in crisis around the turn of the year, especially after that defeat to Moyes's Real Sociedad, with Enrique and Messi reportedly feuding, Enrique constantly chopping and changing tactics and close to getting sacked, before he settled on a fixed starting line-up with Messi on the right and Suarez in the centre, and that front 3 became unplayable during the 2nd half of the season.

In 2012/2013 Bayern were just a ruthless, unstoppable, all conquering juggernaut. Yes that they had that scare against Arsenal in their CL last 16 tie, and they were clearly complacent going into the 2nd leg, but I did think they were the clearly the better team over the 2 legs and so weren't lucky to go through.

Was about to mention the Bayern team myself. Like you said, I can't think of any team recently that was so dominant in all competitions over a year, they dominated every side they faced that year, which included the winners of the Italian and Spanish league.

That one Arsenal tie did eventually go close but it was complacency, they rested Schweinstiger, Boateng and Ribery for that match (or maybe some were suspended, cant quite remember) as well, and missed a ton of chances.

Another team I would want to put out is Germany from 2006-2016. If course it does intail maybe 2 squads as the team from 2014 was vastly different from 2006 but I don't any national team has shown as much consistency during such a long period than Germany during that spell.

2 finals, one won, and 4 semi finals. Similar to United from 2006-2011 with Barca, had Spain not been there against Germany during that spell I think they would've won atleast one more competition.

If I would have to pick of the teams from the two, I would go for the squad from 2010-2016 as I think they were better but ultimately did underachieve a bit by only winning one competition. The semi final exit in 2012 and 2016 was particularly bad as I think they should've won both of those.

 

[thepolice123]

I classify Ancelloti's Real and Zidane's Real as different teams. Don't get why people mash them together.

TBF there were only like 2 key changes to the starting XI? Di Maria and Alonso got replaced by Casemiro and Kroos.

 

[Zehner]

They'll get a lot more respect a few decades from now when nobody's come close to replicating 4 CLs in 5 years in its current format. They didn't have the best squad out of the teams mentioned and they weren't the best team either but achievements wise they aren't behind anyone.

I don't think so. Nowadays few casual football fans know about the achievements of those Bayern, Ajax and Real Madrid squads which won a few in a row - at least if they aren't fans of the teams that won them. I mean, if you visit a random pub at match day and ask a random fan about Sacchi's Milan or Lattek's Bayern, how many people do you expect to give an at least somewhat profound answer? I mean, I have many friends who are really interested in modern football but I have my doubts if they even know who Sacchi was.

What sticks to mind primarily is the success of teams you are associated to in one way or another and then a very selective few which amazed people back in the day with Cruyff's Ajax and Dutch team being the most popular example. Barca and Spain belong in that category, Zidane's Madrid I think rather is in the Sacchi's Milan/Lattek's Bayern mould. People interested in football history will obviously remember them but that's probably it.

 

[GuybrushThreepwood]

Was about to mention the Bayern team myself. Like you said, I can't think of any team recently that was so dominant in all competitions over a year, they dominated every side they faced that year, which included the winners of the Italian and Spanish league.

That one Arsenal tie did eventually go close but it was complacency, they rested Schweinstiger, Boateng and Ribery for that match (or maybe some were suspended, cant quite remember) as well, and missed a ton of chances.

Yes they still created quite a few chances in that 2nd leg against Arsenal which they lost.

In all competitions that season, they played 54, won 46 (85%), drew 5 and lost 3, so incredible dominance. From memory I think they drew both Bundesliga matches against Dortmund, who had beaten them 5 times in a row during the 2 previous seasons. But they beat them in the DFL-Supercup, the DFB-Pokal quarter-finals (they won 1-0 but dominated the match), and of course the Champions League when Dortmund were probably the better team for the first 30 minutes before they were the better team for the remaining 60 minutes.

Also I think for spells during the first half of the season, Robben started on the bench, with Henyckes preferring to use Muller on the right wing and Kroos in the centre. But when Kroos got injured and missed the last couple of the months of the season, Robben became a regular starter again. They had strong depth with the likes of Mario Gomez and Luiz Gustavo as back-ups.

Going into the 2nd leg of their semi-final at the Camp Nou, I think they had 6 players who were a yellow card away from suspension in the final, including Lahm, Schweinsteiger and Martinez who started, and none of them were booked (and in midfield Schweinsteiger and Martinez still didn't back down and made far more tackles than the Barca midfielders).

 

[Josh 76]

The German dominance of the early to mid 70s is not really talked about. Most of the German national team was made up of Bayen player.
As captain of both, this is what the Kaiser lifted.

1971 German Cup
1972 European Championship
1972, 1973, 1974. German league
1974 world cup
1974, 1975, 1976 European Cup

That is mind boggling.

 

[Synco]

The German dominance of the early to mid 70s is not really talked about. Most of the German national team was made up of Bayen player.
As captain of both, this is what the Kaiser lifted.

1971 German Cup
1972 European Championship
1972, 1973, 1974. German league
1974 world cup
1974, 1975, 1976 European Cup

That is mind boggling.

And Bayern already started to seriously perform in the late 60s. In addition to what you posted:

1967 Cup Winners Cup (+ 2 semis)
1969 German league (+ 2x close runners up)
1966, 1967, 1969 German Cup

I think besides Ajax' brilliance, one problem in terms of full recognition for that Bayern team is that domestic dominance and the big European successes didn't come simultaneously. (And that the ECs weren't always won in convincing fashion.) They started to win their European Cups at the beginning of their wind-down process, and after 1974 the league mostly belonged to Gladbach.

 

[Josh 76]

And Bayern already started to seriously perform in the late 60s. In addition to what you posted:

1967 Cup Winners Cup (+ 2 semis)
1969 German league (+ 2x close runners up)
1966, 1967, 1969 German Cup

I think besides Ajax' brilliance, one problem in terms of full recognition for that Bayern team is that domestic dominance and the big European successes didn't come simultaneously. (And that the ECs weren't always won in convincing fashion.) They started to win their European Cups at the beginning of their wind-down process, and after 1974 the league mostly belonged to Gladbach.

1974 was the peak then.
The golden treble:
League
European Cup
World cup.

 

[Dave Smith]

That Barcelona team played the best football I ever saw. Their technical level was beyond anything seen before or after. No wonder teams were so scared to play against them. The 5-0 against Real Madrid was, in my opinion, the ultimate football performance when it comes to technical level. They were awe-inspiring and by far the best team in the world beyond doubt.

And if you thinking about the Arsenal tie in 2011, Arsenal did not shoot once in the entire second leg and were so badly outclassed. Barcelona had also a goal wrongly ruled out as offside in the first leg. Barcelona played great in that 2-1 defeat, they lost because they became too complacent in the second half with a 1-0 victory instead of trying to kill Arsenal once and for all (Barcelona let their own hype go to their heads and thought that they were going to win by inertia), while Arsenal had very good technical quality, specially in that match, and never stopped believing shocking Barcelona with a fast comeback. Overall, the first leg of Arsenal against Barcelona was one of the greatest games I watched with crazily high technical level in constant display. In these times of quarantine, I highly recommend that match

Personally, I never liked tika taka football as I found it boring and I am happy that football seems to gradually be moving away from it again.

As for that Arsenal tie, you are forgetting about the absolutely ridiculous red card for RVP in the second leg who got a second yellow for kicking the ball away when he just went to have a shot because he didn't hear the whistle.

 

[Synco]

1974 was the peak then.
The golden treble:
League
European Cup
World cup.

Yeah, the year when it all came to together, at least in terms of titles. (Performance peaks may have been in other years, as far as I can tell.)

 

[RooneyLegend]

Why isn't the Liverpool side of the 80's getting a mention here?