The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Wibble

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The US does not care a dime about Crimea and the well-being of people of some poor eastern European state that 98 % of the US population couldn't spot on a map or how authoritarian Putin is. All of that is pretext. Saudi Arabia is arguably the worst country in the world right now in terms of human rights, exporting extremism and genociding yet Saudi-Arabia is a close ally of the US to which the US exports military equipment for billions of Dollars.

Now please explain why Russia is portrayed as the number 1 evil in the world to the US masses in a logical manner. Because a Russian troll bot network posted memes in social media for ad revenue purposes during the US election campaigns? Unreal how easy it is for 12 Russians to regime-change the US, meanwhile the US spends billions on Intelligence Services and fails in Syria.

The fact that Trump's meeting with Saudi Arabia, where he sold weapons to an Islamist kingdom where women aren't even allowed to drive cars, did not even receive 1/10 of the outrage that Trump's Russia meeting did, does not irritate anyone here? No one? Okay.

It is in the best interest of the US to build up Russia as an evil force which will invade us all if we do nothing about it, I totally get that. The US can sell their military weapons to everyone in Europe who must protect themselves from the bad Russians. They can sanction any deals with Russia so Europe can buy the expensive but totally democratic US fracking gas. Russia was also a nuisance in the attempt to overthrow Assad. I get all that. But the aggressive geopolitical interests of the US have nothing to do with us in Europe. Trump is honest. The US is not a friend of the EU. If Trump helps the EU to emancipate itself from the US his presidency will be a success (for us Europeans).
You don't have to be a fan of the US to recognise Putin and Russia and an anti-democratic force for much that is bad in the world.

Trump honest? :lol: He lies like most of us drink water.

Pull the other one. It has bell on.
 

2cents

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America shares values with Communist Russia? WTF?
When you believe that international Communism and liberal Capitalism are both Jewish conspiracies designed to subjugate the white race then this makes perfect sense.
 

Abizzz

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The US does not care a dime about Crimea and the well-being of people of some poor eastern European state that 98 % of the US population couldn't spot on a map or how authoritarian Putin is. All of that is pretext. Saudi Arabia is arguably the worst country in the world right now in terms of human rights, exporting extremism and genociding yet Saudi-Arabia is a close ally of the US to which the US exports military equipment for billions of Dollars.

Now please explain why Russia is portrayed as the number 1 evil in the world to the US masses in a logical manner. Because a Russian troll bot network posted memes in social media for ad revenue purposes during the US election campaigns? Unreal how easy it is for 12 Russians to regime-change the US, meanwhile the US spends billions on Intelligence Services and fails in Syria.

The fact that Trump's meeting with Saudi Arabia, where he sold weapons to an Islamist kingdom where women aren't even allowed to drive cars, did not even receive 1/10 of the outrage that Trump's Russia meeting did, does not irritate anyone here? No one? Okay.

It is in the best interest of the US to build up Russia as an evil force which will invade us all if we do nothing about it, I totally get that. The US can sell their military weapons to everyone in Europe who must protect themselves from the bad Russians. They can sanction any deals with Russia so Europe can buy the expensive but totally democratic US fracking gas. Russia was also a nuisance in the attempt to overthrow Assad. I get all that. But the aggressive geopolitical interests of the US have nothing to do with us in Europe. Trump is honest. The US is not a friend of the EU. If Trump helps the EU to emancipate itself from the US his presidency will be a success (for us Europeans).
Do you seriously not understand why western countries care more about a foreign country that attempts to meddle in their elections (and spare me the memes part, Putin is pumping money into every right wing movement across Europe) than about a foreign country's record on human rights towards its own citizens?

I do agree with your last sentence.
 

Fridge chutney

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Because a Russian troll bot network posted memes in social media for ad revenue purposes during the US election campaigns?
You are confusing targeted messages on social media to manipulate the US election (where revenue from Russia was paid towards Facebook for targeted messaging) with the domain spoofing scam which directed revenue from advertisers to owners of those domains based in Russia.

It is widely accepted in the US that Russia interfered in the US election. Not sure why you take issue with this.
 

Cait Sith

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Do you seriously not understand why western countries care more about how a foreign country that attempts to meddle in their elections (and spare me the memes part, Putin is pumping money into every right wing movement across Europe) than about a foreign country's record on human rights towards its own citizens?

I do agree with your last sentence.
The new US ambassador in Germany recently and openly said he wants to help the conservative forces in Europe to blossom and the less is said about the NSA scandal and spying on Merkel's personal phone the better.

Any sanctions against the US? Haha. Imagine Russians did this in the US, boy oh boy.

USA says jump - Europe asks: "How high?" Maybe the Trump presidency will change that.

Trump's policies are more or less in line with any other president before him anyway, it's just his rhetorics which differ (in that sense he is a lot more honest).
 

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The new US ambassador in Germany recently and openly said he wants to help the conservative forces in Europe to blossom and the less is said about the NSA scandal and spying on Merkel's personal phone the better.

Any sanctions against the US? Haha. Imagine Russians did this in the US, boy oh boy.

USA says jump - Europe asks: "How high?" Maybe the Trump presidency will change that.

Trump's policies are more or less in line with any other president before him anyway, it's just his rhetorics which differ (in that sense he is a lot more honest).
Trump also said the EU is a foe.
 

Adisa

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To be honest, the CIA and the US deep state in general are amongst the most heinous and shady outfits on the planet.

It’s ridiculous to implicate them for the 9/11 attacks but it’s hardly outrageous to question their sincerity. They are in the business of deceit and manipulation after all.

Having said that, the US president throwing their credibility under the bus at the behest of an adversary is some truly cowardly stuff.
I don't think anyone trust them. But to distrust them and trust Putin is ridiculous. That's the point here.
 

Abizzz

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The new US ambassador in Germany recently and openly said he wants to help the conservative forces in Europe to blossom and the less is said about the NSA scandal and spying on Merkel's personal phone the better.

Any sanctions against the US? Haha. Imagine Russians did this in the US, boy oh boy.

USA says jump - Europe asks: "How high?" Maybe the Trump presidency will change that.

Trump's policies are more or less in line with any other president before him anyway, it's just his rhetorics which differ (in that sense he is a lot more honest).
The US ambassador to Germany is already a walking joke (he was after one week in the job). Trump could send any third tier Kardashian and that person would get as much attention and respect as Richard Grenell, or lack thereof. I don't know what that has to do with anything though!? Imagine the Russians did what in the US?

When the US say jump it's only the UK that asks "How high". I don't see any French, German or Italian troops in Iraq, do you?

Trump doesn't have policies.
 

Cait Sith

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Trump also said the EU is a foe.
Which is correct economically. If the EU emancipated itself from the Dollar System and became allies with Russia and its ressources and thus made NATO obsolete and on top of that intensified economic relations with China the US would end as a world power. Unfortunately the US has planted their transatlantic bots all over Europe so our mainstream media are all singing the same (American) tune and acting against their self-interest.

 

Adisa

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Fareed Made a good point yesterday. European nations taking more control over national security never ends well.
Imagine Germany started spending rediculouls amounts on defense? As ridiculous as it sounds, they're would be eyebrows raised in Poland and France.
 

JPRouve

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Fareed Made a good point yesterday. European nations taking more control over national security never ends well.
Imagine Germany started spending rediculouls amounts on defense? As ridiculous as it sounds, they're would be eyebrows raised in Poland and France.
No, we are good.
 

Abizzz

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Which is correct economically. If the EU emancipated itself from the Dollar System and became allies with Russia and its ressources and thus made NATO obsolete and on top of that intensified economic relations with China the US would end as a world power. Unfortunately the US has planted their transatlantic bots all over Europe so our mainstream media are all singing the same (American) tune and acting against their self-interest.

Any more info on this Swiss Propaganda Research? I checked the website and it seems they are very comfortable with naming and shaming others while staying anonymous themselves out of fear.

You could make a graph like that with any of Bundeskraftfahrtamt, djv or any other large organization, it says nothing really...
 

JPRouve

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But don't you agree that if it's not EU orchestrated, it could lead to some sort of arms race which is never a good thing?
No, I think that Germany and France should be genuine and very close allies but as long as the EU isn't a federation they have no business orchestrating our respective military spendings.
 

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I feel like a broken record, but nothing will come out of this. People's outrage will last another day or two, then Trump will say some other silly thing on Twitter and the wagon moves on to that.

Aside from hard evidence of criminal or treasonous contact, nothing will harm Trump. It won't. We're still overestimating the collective IQ of the citizens of the US. Sure, there's people with brains, but the whole reason we're in this mess and can't get out, is that "intellectuals" somehow can't admit the truth: a lot of people are either too dumb to see Trump for what he is, or too cnutish to care and this group is huge.

His followers will never abandon him, ever. They won't.
 

The Firestarter

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But don't you agree that if it's not EU orchestrated, it could lead to some sort of arms race which is never a good thing?
It won't be a good thing for uncle Puty, that's cerrain. Its scary to think if that huge industrial infrastructure in Germany, France, etc. suddenly starts sprouting tanks , APCS, jets, etc, en masse.
 

nimic

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It won't be a good thing for uncle Puty, that's cerrain. Its scary to think if that huge industrial infrastructure in Germany, France, etc. suddenly starts sprouting tanks , APCS, jets, etc, en masse.
War between Russia and Europe/NATO is already preposterous. Germany, France, etc. don't need to suddenly start sprouting tanks, APCS, jets, etc. An arms race will be bad for everyone. Except Putin might actually personally gain from it, being able to play on his siege mentality even more than he does now.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Which is correct economically. If the EU emancipated itself from the Dollar System and became allies with Russia and its ressources and thus made NATO obsolete and on top of that intensified economic relations with China the US would end as a world power. Unfortunately the US has planted their transatlantic bots all over Europe so our mainstream media are all singing the same (American) tune and acting against their self-interest.

 

The Firestarter

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War between Russia and Europe/NATO is already preposterous. Germany, France, etc. don't need to suddenly start sprouting tanks, APCS, jets, etc. An arms race will be bad for everyone. Except Putin might actually personally gain from it, being able to play on his siege mentality even more than he does now.
Europe is depending heavily on US currently. We may hold the initial invasion by ourselves, however for the pushback we need the US. That's how it has been planned since the establishment of NATO.
 

Adisa

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It won't be a good thing for uncle Puty, that's cerrain. Its scary to think if that huge industrial infrastructure in Germany, France, etc. suddenly starts sprouting tanks , APCS, jets, etc, en masse.
But that's sort of where we are heading. If NATO can't be relied on as a unit, the individual countries are under presssure to increase security spending on individual basis. All it takes is for one of the bigger countries to start, then others are compelled to follow suit.
You already have senior German officials saying US cannot be relied on for German security.
 

nimic

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I feel like a broken record, but nothing will come out of this. People's outrage will last another day or two, then Trump will say some other silly thing on Twitter and the wagon moves on to that.

Aside from hard evidence of criminal or treasonous contact, nothing will harm Trump. It won't. We're still overestimating the collective IQ of the citizens of the US. Sure, there's people with brains, but the whole reason we're in this mess and can't get out, is that "intellectuals" somehow can't admit the truth: a lot of people are either too dumb to see Trump for what he is, or too cnutish to care and this group is huge.

His followers will never abandon him, ever. They won't.
This is overly simplistic. You're right that it's definitely not certain that this is going to be a huge thing going forward, but the idea that Trump avoids any consequences for his scandals is mistaken. It hasn't gotten him impeached yet, which is already probably a better result than more "normal" presidents would get, but there's a reason his approval rating is consistently -10 or worse. He probably can't go any lower than 30-odd percent, but he needs more than his base to win another election.
 

JPRouve

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Europe is depending heavily on US currently. We may hold the initial invasion by ourselves, however for the pushback we need the US. That's how it has been planned since the establishment of NATO.
Honestly, I think that it's a pretty big exaggeration, European countries have big armies, it seems that people underrate European armies while overrating Russia army.
 

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But that's sort of where we are heading. If NATO can't be relied on as a unit, the individual countries are under presssure to increase security spending on individual basis. All it takes is for one of the bigger countries to start, then others are compelled to follow suit.
You already have senior German officials saying US cannot be relied on for German security.
Imagine a new nuclear arms race. With more weapons more chances of things going wrong.
 

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You got to be joking with that chart.
Dunno, we've got Bildeberg Group shenanigans and 9/11 trutherism. Just waiting for the false moon landing trifecta and I'll hand in my betting slip.
 

Adisa

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Another thing people don't take into account.
Russian meddling has real consequnces in former Soviet states. Especially ones with significant Russian speaking population. Let's not forget, Russia has invaded two neighbours in the last decade. If the US president doesn't give a feck about Putin meddling in his own country, what message does that send to them?
 

do.ob

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I feel like a broken record, but nothing will come out of this. People's outrage will last another day or two, then Trump will say some other silly thing on Twitter and the wagon moves on to that.

Aside from hard evidence of criminal or treasonous contact, nothing will harm Trump. It won't. We're still overestimating the collective IQ of the citizens of the US. Sure, there's people with brains, but the whole reason we're in this mess and can't get out, is that "intellectuals" somehow can't admit the truth: a lot of people are either too dumb to see Trump for what he is, or too cnutish to care and this group is huge.

His followers will never abandon him, ever. They won't.
Things don't change over night, they change in incremental steps and republicans being dissatisfied with his handling of Russia may be a step in the right direction.
 

The Firestarter

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Honestly, I think that it's a pretty big exaggeration, European countries have big armies, it seems that people underrate European armies while overrating Russia army.
Just by the overwhelming amount of armour(tanks). Not sure what the matchup in CAS aviation is. I think the EU has advantage in aircraft numbers but I couldn't find a breakdown on those . Their hardware may not be top quality but they've always depended on quantity Vs quality.
 

Raoul

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America shares values with Communist Russia? WTF?
There's a strain within the paleo-conservative (and white identity) movements that is infatuated with Putin because they think he has restored some sense of order in Russia for the advancement of white identity, a perceived strengthening of "family values" (as in being anti-gay), the church, preserving a sense of Russian history as well as its homogenous population etc. Ignoring of course that he has turned it into a full on dictatorship, replete with sham elections, the murdering of journalists, stealing land from neighboring states, who is ostensibly running a state sponsored organized crime syndicate masquerading as a nation state.
 

JPRouve

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Just by the overwhelming amount of armour(tanks). Not sure what the matchup in CAS aviation is. I think the EU has advantage in aircraft numbers but I couldn't find a breakdown on those . Their hardeare may not be top quality but they've always depended on quantity Vs quality.
Yeah, but that's bullshit, it's USSR numbers. You can't even tell which ones actually works nowadays.
 
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