Television The Wheel of Time - BOOKS and TV show thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED

[Dargonk]

Really not sure where we are roughly sitting now stories/book number wise. Still feels like things are rushing forward very quickly, as plenty of things are starting to happen that I didn't think happened until much later. Still enjoying it though, though likely helps that I've forgotten most of the details since reading the books years ago.

Not sure how Mat not going through the portal works.

 

[WI_Red]

Really not sure where we are roughly sitting now stories/book number wise. Still feels like things are rushing forward very quickly, as plenty of things are starting to happen that I didn't think happened until much later. Still enjoying it though, though likely helps that I've forgotten most of the details since reading the books years ago.

Not sure how Mat not going through the portal works.

They had no choice, the actor left the show In the middle of shooting,

 

[padr81]

Ha! So I was right with my guess then.

I since had it spoiled simply from googling names so I could converse about the characters and their actors, which is why I’m in this thread. It was just a random little blurb giving it away so…I’m not googling anymore. Even for a map, which I still need.

You were spot on, I'd say about 30% of people were, Rand was the most picked. I didn't wanna answer till we get the big reveal. Also you scared the shit outta me when you quoted, I was like "Please say I didn't just post that in the wrong fecking thread".

 

[Bobski]

The lack of development of Rand, Mat and Perrin has been irritating, really could have done without the episode and a half of Stepin melodrama, if they wanted to explore the Warders bond they could have easily done that through Lan and Moraine. The whole Dragon mystery was not really needed, but I have read some opinions they might go for some Multi Dragon option, and that would be the death of it for me.

I would suggest that the whole Dragon mystery has been a mistake, they have limited the development of younger characters to maintain a mystery when they would have been better off just fleshing them out even if it made it obvious.

 

[nimic]

The lack of development of Rand, Mat and Perrin has been irritating, really could have done without the episode and a half of Stepin melodrama, if they wanted to explore the Warders bond they could have easily done that through Lan and Moraine. The whole Dragon mystery was not really needed, but I have read some opinions they might go for some Multi Dragon option, and that would be the death of it for me.

Rand is the one and only Dragon in the show. Those opinions are dumb.

 

[Pexbo]

It’s annoying me that Loial is half the size he should be. Absolutely no physical presence at all.

 

[Bobski]

Rand is the one and only Dragon in the show. Those opinions are dumb.

I am 99% certain you are correct and Friday should prove it. Some of the spoiler pics I have read about of LTT in the AOL, in a highly advanced future society really make me excited to see what they do with that, should have the non readers scratching their heads a bit, and if done well really establish what the breaking meant and explain the distrust of Aes Sedal.

 

[Dargonk]

They had no choice, the actor left the show In the middle of shooting,

Ah right, I had assumed he left at the end of the season. Going to be weird seeing a different actor suddenly take his place.

 

[Pexbo]

Ah right, I had assumed he left at the end of the season. Going to be weird seeing a different actor suddenly take his place.

Ok I’m half avoiding this thread as I’m only on book 4 and don’t have much free time to read it at the moment so please don’t tag me with any spoilers from there onwards but I’ll chip in on my thoughts of Matt so far in the book and the series:

Matt’s whole journey so far has been incredibly rushed in the show and it’s a shame because in my opinion he’s been the most interesting character and best acted (probably equal with Moraine). The actor, while a little darker than he came across in the book for me, really nailed the complexity of Matt being a joker who is inherently good but because he’s not as smart as the others or as disciplined has a real struggle with his sense of worth and believes it makes him inherently bad.

In the books, his corruption by the ruby hilted dagger was spread over a much longer period and Moraine was able to heal him somewhat but not separate him from it altogether - that would require more Aes Sedai and a angreal at the white tower.

Padan Fain stole it before he could get to the white tower and this ended up with them joining the great hunt with Rand looking for the horn of Valere and Matt looking for the dagger. To cut a long story short - that series of events lead to Matt blowing the horn of valere which is obviously very important (the prophecy that the dragon would blow the horn at the last battle but Rand is the dragon and Matt is the owner of the horn and would have to die for the power to be restored to the horn and it used again - I assume that will be relevant in later books).

Anyway it’s only after all this happening that Matt finally gets carried, almost dead, to the white tower and a group of powerful Aes Sedai use an angreal to separate him from the dagger. He‘s then blessed with unbelievable luck which he uses to gamble his way to riches as he meets Thom again and they head to Tear and eventually meet everyone else there as Rand finally wields Callandor and fights and defeats the dark one and a forsaken again.


So it seems like they’re skipping key details which make up a chain of events which are core to the book. I assume whatever it was with the actor playing Matt must have been bad because it seems like they have rushed to rewrite him out of it.

 

[padr81]

Ok I’m half avoiding this thread as I’m only on book 4 and don’t have much free time to read it at the moment so please don’t tag me with any spoilers from there onwards but I’ll chip in on my thoughts of Matt so far in the book and the series:

Matt’s whole journey so far has been incredibly rushed in the show and it’s a shame because in my opinion he’s been the most interesting character and best acted (probably equal with Moraine). The actor, while a little darker than he came across in the book for me, really nailed the complexity of Matt being a joker who is inherently good but because he’s not as smart as the others or as disciplined has a real struggle with his sense of worth and believes it makes him inherently bad.

In the books, his corruption by the ruby hilted dagger was spread over a much longer period and Moraine was able to heal him somewhat but not separate him from it altogether - that would require more Aes Sedai and a angreal at the white tower.

Padan Fain stole it before he could get to the white tower and this ended up with them joining the great hunt with Rand looking for the horn of Valere and Matt looking for the dagger. To cut a long story short - that series of events lead to Matt blowing the horn of valere which is obviously very important (the prophecy that the dragon would blow the horn at the last battle but Rand is the dragon and Matt is the owner of the horn and would have to die for the power to be restored to the horn and it used again - I assume that will be relevant in later books).

Anyway it’s only after all this happening that Matt finally gets carried, almost dead, to the white tower and a group of powerful Aes Sedai use an angreal to separate him from the dagger. He‘s then blessed with unbelievable luck which he uses to gamble his way to riches as he meets Thom again and they head to Tear and eventually meet everyone else there as Rand finally wields Callandor and fights and defeats the dark one and a forsaken again.


So it seems like they’re skipping key details which make up a chain of events which are core to the book. I assume whatever it was with the actor playing Matt must have been bad because it seems like they have rushed to rewrite him out of it.

I don't think Matt is fully healed in the show. Especially now with the actor staying behind, by necessity they'll write him in as trying to get the dagger back for sure. Saying he didn't go with them because he wanted to try and steal it back.

 

[WI_Red]

Very interesting interview here with Brandon Sanderson and his thoughts on TV vs. Book. Pretty much spoiler free too.


@Pexbo , @padr81 really interesting bit on Mat around 13:30.

 

[nimic]

That's not an interview, it's a podcast hosted by two writers

 

[nimic]

I don't think Matt is fully healed in the show. Especially now with the actor staying behind, by necessity they'll write him in as trying to get the dagger back for sure. Saying he didn't go with them because he wanted to try and steal it back.

Padan Fain will for sure steal the dagger, and it will become obvious in season 2 that Mat needs the dagger and he can feel where it is. So off on an adventure.

 

[WI_Red]

That's not an interview, it's a podcast hosted by two writers

Is it a Podcast or an attempt to set a world record for most signatures written in 50 minutes? How did his hand not fall off??

 

[padr81]

Very interesting interview here with Brandon Sanderson and his thoughts on TV vs. Book. Pretty much spoiler free too.


@Pexbo , @padr81 really interesting bit on Mat around 13:30.

Nice cheers dude can't wait to get stuck in.

 

[nimic]

I've just gotten to the intro of episode 7, but feck me what a great opening. Perfect.

My prediction isn't looking too bad:

Also, I bet next episode starts or ends with the Aiel War, with the snippets we saw in the trailer of Shaiel fighting an Illianer. We'll get Tam (who was second in command (?) of the Companions) finding her giving birth, maybe helping her. Probably Moiraine will tell the gang the story of Gitara's foretelling during the siege of Tar Valon during the episode, then it is revealed throughout. Rand's hair and all that.

 

[nimic]

Okay so I wasn't completely correct, but I'll take it. Really good episode, though.

 

[padr81]

Okay so I wasn't completely correct, but I'll take it. Really good episode, though.

Loved it, best of the season. Wasn't huge on Perrin fancying Egwene so hard, in the books he's pissed at Aram but I always thought more because of Rand.

The opening for me was best scene in the show so far. Good call on helpful Tam. The way Shail dies alone in the books not knowing Rand's fate is harsh, this was more bittersweet

 

[Revan]

Might be biased, but really a good episode. Again. The calm before the storm!

I think they exaggerated a bit with Tigraine, to be fair. She was supposed to be badass, but that badass?

Like that they sped up Nynaeve-Lan relationship, and them already confirming that Lan is a king. Obviously, the big thing in the episode was Rand being confirmed as the Dragon Reborn, though not sure I liked him accepting this so easily. In the books, he is very stubborn against that, until the third book when he has to accept it.

Also, 'three beautiful women' from Min phrase makes me believe that they are really going with Rand having 3 wives.

 

[nimic]

Might be biased, but really a good episode. Again. The calm before the storm!

I think they exaggerated a bit with Tigraine, to be fair. She was supposed to be badass, but that badass?

Like that they sped up Nynaeve-Lan relationship, and them already confirming that Lan is a king. Obviously, the big thing in the episode was Rand being confirmed as the Dragon Reborn, though not sure I liked him accepting this so easily. In the books, he is very stubborn against that, until the third book when he has to accept it.

Also, 'three beautiful women' from Min phrase makes me believe that they are really going with Rand having 3 wives.

We know very little about Shaiel in that sense, though we know she was accepted as and trained as a Maiden. This was a good way of combining sine plot advancement with establishing how badass the aiel are, at least.

I bet the 3 beautiful women thing is going to be Rand having to choose, but I'm less sure than before.

 

[padr81]

Said it before but for 3 beautiful women we'll get a 4 way kinda everyone loves everyone as opposed to rand and 3. The books have aviendha and Elayne attraction anyway so it's just add Min.

 

[Revan]

Said it before but for 3 beautiful women we'll get a 4 way kinda everyone loves everyone as opposed to rand and 3. The books have aviendha and Elayne attraction anyway so it's just add Min.

Yup, I think that is the more likely and less controversial option.

 

[nimic]

They're not going to make all the young women bisexual, that's almost a trope in itself.

 

[Revan]

They're not going to make all the young women bisexual, that's almost a trope in itself.

Only those three. Many like Nyn or Egwene aren't.

 

[nimic]

The problem is that it's already a bit of a teen boy fantasy what happens in the books, with three beautiful girls who love him. Making the girls bisexual doesn't exactly dampen that vibe. I just don't think they're going to do that.

 

[Dargonk]

Bit of a slower episode, though I'm glad they have finally stopped the whole who is the dragon stuff. It will be interesting to see now if the Rand actor can actually step into the role, as I'm still not sure about him.

 

[WI_Red]

Any of you book fans watching The Witcher over on Netflix? That is one of my other favorite book series and I think Netflix has done a fantastic job with season 2. I kinda hope we see a similar improvement with WoT season 2.

 

[nimic]

Any of you book fans watching The Witcher over on Netflix? That is one of my other favorite book series and I think Netflix has done a fantastic job with season 2. I kinda hope we see a similar improvement with WoT season 2.

I never read the books, but I love the games. I started watching the series, but I lost interest about half-way through. The time-skips were a bizarre choice, though not as bizarre a choice as the Nilgaardian armor.

I just don't understand how that made its way all the way from a suggestion and a concept, through to actually filming it. It's just so obviously, ridiculously bad. It's so bad. It almost makes me stay up at night wondering what kind of world we live in where a lot of someones thought that was a good decision.

Apparently they fixed it for season 2, so maybe I should try to pick season 1 back up.

 

[WI_Red]

I never read the books, but I love the games. I started watching the series, but I lost interest about half-way through. The time-skips were a bizarre choice, though not as bizarre a choice as the Nilgaardian armor.

I just don't understand how that made its way all the way from a suggestion and a concept, through to actually filming it. It's just so obviously, ridiculously bad. It almost makes me stay up at night wondering what kind of world we live in where a lot of someones thought that was a good decision.

Apparently they fixed it for season 2, so maybe I should try to pick season 1 back up.

As I posted in the Witcher thread (last post in here on The Witcher) it is amongst my favorite seasons of any show ever. They cleaned it all up and the production quality is so much better. No time jumping either.

 

[V.O.]

I never read the books, but I love the games. I started watching the series, but I lost interest about half-way through. The time-skips were a bizarre choice, though not as bizarre a choice as the Nilgaardian armor.

The feck is that?

 

[padr81]

I never read the books, but I love the games. I started watching the series, but I lost interest about half-way through. The time-skips were a bizarre choice, though not as bizarre a choice as the Nilgaardian armor.

I just don't understand how that made its way all the way from a suggestion and a concept, through to actually filming it. It's just so obviously, ridiculously bad. It's so bad. It almost makes me stay up at night wondering what kind of world we live in where a lot of someones thought that was a good decision.

Apparently they fixed it for season 2, so maybe I should try to pick season 1 back up.

I think they had no choice but to go with the time skips in series 1 because Yen's story starts well before Geralts and Geralts well before Ciri. Had they done it in the right timeline all those lunatics calling it the Yennifer show would have went insane when Geralt wasn't in the first 3 episodes and Ciri didn't appear till the last couple of episodes. I don't think there was any way around it without having a major player off screen for a long time.

The rubbish bag armor was hilarious but thankfully much better this season.

 

[nimic]

I think they had no choice but to go with the time skips in series 1 because Yen's story starts well before Geralts and Geralts well before Ciri. Had they done it in the right timeline all those lunatics calling it the Yennifer show would have went insane when Geralt wasn't in the first 3 episodes and Ciri didn't appear till the last couple of episodes. I don't think there was any way around it without having a major player off screen for a long time.

The rubbish bag armor was hilarious but thankfully much better this season.

We're getting way off topic for the thread now, but I should just mention that I'm not opposed to a time skip per se. I just thought they were doing it in an almost deliberately confusing manner. I've got some knowledge of Witcher lore from playing the games, but I was pretty confused. I guess that might actually have made me more confused than a fresh viewer.

 

[padr81]

We're getting way off topic for the thread now, but I should just mention that I'm not opposed to a time skip per se. I just thought they were doing it in an almost deliberately confusing manner. I've got some knowledge of Witcher lore from playing the games, but I was pretty confused. I guess that might actually have made me more confused than a fresh viewer.

It was def confusing just the only logical reason I can find for it was to keep everyone in every episode.

 

[Bobski]

Making Tigraine/Shaiel a killing machine while on the verge of labour made for some impressive choreography, but was it a good choice for the show?

From what I remember(and someone correct me if I am not) her acceptance into the Maidens of the Spear was as much for her stubbornness, strength of will and spirit as her martial skill. It does show how formidable the Aiel are, but then again she is not Aiel, though they may make her so in the Show. Best fight scene of the show so far, if a little absurd.

That whole Machin Shin CW network love triangle sequence was the worst part of the episode. Overall they have not developed the core characters as much as I would have liked by this stage, needed more than 8 episodes and less time on Steppin and co. Hopefully in the next season it makes the kind of quality jump that the Witcher made.

On an unrelated note I have read some stuff on Reddit suggesting the actress from The Expanse playing Avarasala for Cadsuane and that seems ludicrously perfect casting. Make it happen Amazon.

 

[wr8_utd]

Where exactly is Elayne?

 

[nimic]

Where exactly is Elayne?

In season 2. They cast a really Elayne-looking actress.

I liked Ishy in the finale, but overall it was pretty bad. Maybe the worst episode for me, disappointing. Still cautiously optimistic for season 2, particularly if they can avoid Covid troubles, but we'll see.

 

[Revan]

I liked the episode but felt that there was too much change. The part at Eye of the World was completely different from the source material. I also really hope that they are not stilling Moiraine this early, she has to play some large part for another couple of seasons.

Oh, the Saenchan had only 10 seconds and they looked as lunatic as in the books.

Ishamael was excellent!

 

[)_(]

I'm half way through the episode and I'm wondering why the dark one is wearing an outfit designed by Kanye West.

 

[padr81]

Weakest episode for me too. I don't mind the changes overall but some stuff was just weird.

Looks like we're getting Rand with the Aiel this season, Matt and Perrin on the hunt to find the horn/dagger to save Loial, Egwene and Nyneave to the White Tower and Moiraine is shielded not stilled imho so Rosamund has something to do this season otherwise she'd be sidelined. I can live with how everything turned out.

But man they get the episode wrong... very wrong.
I'll start with my big cons.
Nyneave being linked so easy was weird to me given she can't access her own powers. The entire scene made the sacrifice of the King and all the men of Fal Dara kinda pointless too, the burnout scene was over the top and Nyn's sacrifice whilst very much in character to save Eg came across hamfisted. She looked way too dead and it will look like revival by Eg to some especially non-readers. Too far imho. It would have made more sense for Eg to be hurt and Nyn to heal. I did like the way they did the one power in that scene bar the zombie dancing, those tiny lines from the other a strong line from Eg and this massive bright line for Nyn but a hamfisted scene. It all came together poorly.

Fake deaths everywhere Nyn, Loial, Uno and potentially Agelmar and Ishy... too many, I'd say the only one that will stick in season 2 is Agelmar.
Also Lan was lucky Nyn told him what that tell was or he'd of been fighting in the fort.

Perrin being sidelined again, I know his struggles and I know he does feck all in the end of eotw too but it just felt clunky everytime it cut to him, felt a bit like the actor was phoning it in too.

It looks like covid restrictions and cgi trollocs hit the battle scene hard (we got no real battle in the fortress)

What I liked
Ishy was cool and Aginor was a pointless Forsaken anyway. I really like the temptation of Rand and that entire section was good with Moiraine holding the dagger to his throat and no clue what he would choose. Easily the strongest part of the episode for me.

Moiraine being shielded, was good to me because it means she's not getting sidelined in season 2. It will be interesting.

Paidin Fain - that shit was top notch and well done, the way he followed them throughout the season and it all came together well. Quite enjoyed it.

I'd give the episode maybe a 5/10 saved by Rand and Moiraine from a 3. Hopefully the weakest part of the book series is also the weakest part of the show.

I have a feeling season 2 and 3 are gonna be a little all over the place to be honest (not in a bad way but bookwise). I think we may get the doorway moved to Falme and we could get Moiraine doorwayed there after getting her powers back to tackle Lanfear.
I think we might get Rand and the Aiel arrive there along with Mat and the Horn. Lanfear and Moiraine get doorwayed, Rand fight Bal and the Seanchan fight Mat and the heroes and maybe Aiel vs Whitecloaks or something in a huge finish.

 

[padr81]

I'm half way through the episode and I'm wondering why the dark one is wearing an outfit designed by Kanye West.

He's wearing the cool clothes from 3000 years ago.