Thiago is all flair, zero substance.
Thiago Alcântara | 2016/17 Performances
- Thread starter BlueCelery
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He never really hit the heights he was suppose to. He was to retire Iniesta at one point.
At 27 now, he's in his peak but yet you never hear about him in the media. Hell, he only got his 2017/18 thread on the Caf yesterday
At 27 now, he's in his peak but yet you never hear about him in the media. Hell, he only got his 2017/18 thread on the Caf yesterday
What do you mean with "actually effective"? Thiago plays as a CM, not a CAM. He was brillant under Guardiola and Ancelotti and did exactly what he was supposed to do. I think people criminally underrate him because they still don't appreciate players like him or Modric until they win big titles with their teams. He isn't on the same level as Iniesta, Xavi, Kroos or Modric since he sometimes plays too risky but is still comfortably among the best CMs on the planet. I think a good example is his performance against Real. He had one bad half (actually, it was probably more like 15 bad minutes) after being benched initially and this overshadows that he was very good in the second half and the second leg. Initiated many attacks, had important tackles, kept possession brillantly and moved the ball quickly around the playing field. Bayern has completely different problems than Thiago. I'd say it is primarily the lack of national competition and the related lack of battle hardedness in international duels as well as the aging wingers. Maybe even Lewandowski who really looks completely out of form on the big stage.
Well, i dont like the term "overrated" because its overused here..i think we should have called Jorginho, though. Arthur-Jorginho-Fabinho would probably be better than what we have now.
I'm not going to claim that I'm an expert on this player, but the one year where Guardiola had everyone available in the CL and Bayern actually looked like they would win the thing Pep benched him until extra time for the return leg against Juventus, subbed him off in Madrid and benched him entirely for the return leg. When Bayern played in Dortmund that season (in March - a victory would've put Dortmund within 3 points of Bayern, making the title race wide open) he was also benched for 90 minutes.
Listening to Bayern fans talking about Thiago... you'd think it was United fans talking about Pogba!
Seems like Guardiola is also one of those criminally underrating him. Just like do.ob showed you already:
Guardiola in his last season at Bayern rightfully benched him more often than not in important games, even though it was the one season where Thiago was actually mostly healthy. Thiago simply didn't develop over those 3 years. If anything, he got worse with each passing season until Ancelotti took over. Which makes @Zehner 's claim that he'd flourish under Guardiola so silly.
This makes me feel like Utd would stand a chance of signing him if we really went for him.
It's a fair comparison, really. Both Pogba and Thiago more than have the skillset to be the best central midfielders in the world, but both have issues with consistency and maturity in their play.
You can maybe add Verratti in there, also. A midfield three of those would've been the average football fans wet dream a few years back. And whilst all three have gone on to win major trophies and stamp their marks as excellent players, none has yet to impose themselves as a true top three in the position-tier.
In 16-17 Thiago was the best midfielder in the Bundesliga by some distance so some of the critiquing of him is a little over the top. James can not be the all around midfielder Thiago can be at his best.
Well, hopefully Bayern's board feel the same and can't wait to get rid of him for £40m or less
He had a very good first half of a season in 16/17 but that's pretty much it. When it really mattered, in the games against madrid, he didn't deliver.
The last half season I have seen James boss the midfield in ways that Thiago doesn't even dream of. He showed that he can go Vidal-like DM if it is required of him, something Thiago never did so far, making James the more complete midfielder.
You are United, so you will be ripped off as is tradition. I actually really hope you go for him because you would surely pay around 70 odd million euro.Well, hopefully Bayern's board feel the same and can't wait to get rid of him for £40m or less
And then he will go on to be injured 70% of the time. Also tradition. Do you want Vidal as well?
Yes, but in the role we need to be filled, James is much, much better. Doesn't matter if Thiago is 80% the player James is in his best position everywhere in midfield. Quite simply: Thiago is 80% the defensive midfielder Martinez is, he's 70% the CAM James is and 80% the CM Vidal is. No doubt he's a far better CAM than Martinez would be and a way better CDM than James (you get the picture), but: what exactly do we need him for then if we can get an enormous amount of money for him from some silly PL club?
Can't say much about this since I don't really remember after three or four years. Maybe he was in bad form during these matches, maybe he wasn't fit due to minor injuries or whatever. It is, however, a fact that he was the one player Guardiola demanded at his arrival. It is also a fact that he was so important for Guardiola that he rushed him back from major injuries time and time again.
It is also not uncommen that a player who has been injured for such a long time needs a complete season to get back to his best again. So I think this kind of evaluation is a little bit unfair. In the Bayern matches I watch, Thiago usually is comfortably the best midfielder on the pitch. But maybe I just pay attention to different aspects.
It depends on the setup. Vidal is a brillant midfielder for teams like Juventus or Chelsea. But your whole approach since van Gaal was based on being the active, constructive team and for that concept Thiago is a much, much better fit and among the best in the world. If Vidal is a better midfielder in your team than Thiago, you are making something fundamentally wrong.
Would love to have him here tbh but if we were going to do the impossible with Bayern I prefer Corentin Tolisso.
Thiago is still clearly our best midfielder. But the expectations around him are completely ridiculous.
He is the best 8 - without any doubt. But he is not the best 10 or 6. Vidal is the biggest fighter - but not the best player.
Since Bayern fans didn't stop moaning about him and Lewa since that Madrid game, hope you sell them both. Maybe you'll get better.
Some of us have been moaning about him for far longer than since that game. It's not something new in Thiago's case.
So, you would let him go? And get who in his place?
No one. We have Vidal, Martinez, Sanches, Goretzka, James, Tolisso and Rudy for the cm. We have to get rid of someone first.
You'll get rid of Vidal and Sanches. Thiago maybe didn't fulfil the expectations of Bayern fans, but I personally don't see anyone who could play his role that effectively.
Tolisso and Rudy at best are depth while Sanches can not be considered a realistic option at this point.
Would be madness to sell him, there are better candidates to get rid of. He is still highly talented and at a good age. They wont get a better midfielder anyway.
It wouldn't surprise me if Bayern would screw this up. Thiago is by far the best and the most complete midfielder in the Bundesliga and yet he has no lobby in Germany. The german media doesn't care about his good performances at all. I never heard Hoeness or Rummenigge saying something positive about him in an interview. They wouldn't even notice his existence if Guardiola wouldn't have brought the idea up to sign this guy. After Bayern signed James, Hoeness admitted that he actually didn't know this player but he trusted Ancelottis expertise.
When you have such a world class player in your team like Thiago then you have to do everything to keep him. Bayern already lost Kroos though he didn't even want to leave the club. Rummenigge once told that the intention behind signing Renato Sanches was to make him Alonsos successor. Wtf? You got Thiago and they're talking about Sanches as the future playmaker. Bayern just doesn't show enough appreciation for Thiago. No wonder he's rethinking his future in Munich. Kovac is not the kind of coach who can handle such perfection and that's why he won't be able to convince Thiago of staying in Munich. I very much hope that he stays but I don't have a good feeling in that case.
https://www.football365.com/news/prem-clubs-on-alert-after-matthaus-savages-shadow-thiago
Reminds of some of the ex utd players being overly critical of Pogba, we should be all over this. Seems like Bayern would sell at the right price.
Reminds of some of the ex utd players being overly critical of Pogba, we should be all over this. Seems like Bayern would sell at the right price.
What is Matthaus' position? Just a pundit?
Agree that we should try to get Thiago if at all possible.
Wouldn‘t say pundit. Clown would be more accurate.
Can't have been that long back that people were raving about him. Think it was this season just gone. Seems that a lot of supposedly good players have struggled at various times for Bayern in the last couple of years - Douglas Costa, Alaba, Coman, Lewandowski and now Thiago.
Talent to some people is completing 98% non risky passes to Kimmich Boateng and Hummels or showboating on social media. Talent to me is application on the field.
Despite Vidals age and misconducts(getting drunk, bar fights) many fans are ready to stick for him because he gives it all on the field.
James at the beginning many Bayern fans not enthusiastic about his purchase but he has won us over because he played hard, driving lay forward and earned it,
There are still errors in James midfield game which cause turnovers like vs Frankfurt but we can see the effort and forward play while trying to make thing happen, not just playing sideways safe passes to complete some 60 passes in our half on whoscored.
Bayern biggest problem is our slow transition where we have been emphasizing sterile midfield passes and possession over actually taking shots. We dominate possesion and looks like we lose focus of what to do with the ball. I won't mind surrendering some of those possession for more risky forward and penetrative plays
In Thagos 5 seasons his best game has been vs Arsenal last year in Munich. Other top games he has disappeared.
Still I wont want him sold yet, Renato and Vidal(sadly) can leave before Thiago. Maybe Kovac can make him a deep lying playmaker like Pirlo and have Tolliso/Goretzka and James do the running in front of him
Despite Vidals age and misconducts(getting drunk, bar fights) many fans are ready to stick for him because he gives it all on the field.
James at the beginning many Bayern fans not enthusiastic about his purchase but he has won us over because he played hard, driving lay forward and earned it,
There are still errors in James midfield game which cause turnovers like vs Frankfurt but we can see the effort and forward play while trying to make thing happen, not just playing sideways safe passes to complete some 60 passes in our half on whoscored.
Bayern biggest problem is our slow transition where we have been emphasizing sterile midfield passes and possession over actually taking shots. We dominate possesion and looks like we lose focus of what to do with the ball. I won't mind surrendering some of those possession for more risky forward and penetrative plays
In Thagos 5 seasons his best game has been vs Arsenal last year in Munich. Other top games he has disappeared.
Still I wont want him sold yet, Renato and Vidal(sadly) can leave before Thiago. Maybe Kovac can make him a deep lying playmaker like Pirlo and have Tolliso/Goretzka and James do the running in front of him
Just came to know via @fcbforever , the blasphemy that is going on here. "All style, no substance".. dear God.
In a way, this is a good analogy for us Man United fans to see what's really happening with Pogba. The criticism and spotlight is more on Pogba, but it's more unjustified in the case of Thiago. The only thing against him is his injury record and even that has been better after the initial one which kept him out during the start of Pep's time at Bayern.
In a way, this is a good analogy for us Man United fans to see what's really happening with Pogba. The criticism and spotlight is more on Pogba, but it's more unjustified in the case of Thiago. The only thing against him is his injury record and even that has been better after the initial one which kept him out during the start of Pep's time at Bayern.
Dude, no. He has regularly failed to deliver in the biggest Champions League matches, he hasn't shown the mentality to be a great player; though he has the skills to be one. To play in his position means to be commanding on and off the ball, come deep to receive and distribute it, he hasn't shown the authority to lead the midfield, unlike Schweinsteiger, Vidal before him.
On current evidence, Bayern can simply not depend on him.
You have to feel for the guy. Since his favorite scapegoat for our misfortunes since 2013 left for City, he's been hyping up Ancelotti and Heynckes as the real sages who'd deliver what Baldy couldn't.
Well, we know where this got us.
So, logically, other candidates for the pyre need to be identified
Thiago isn't as bad as some folks are now trying to paint him. It's true however, that he failed to live up to his huge promise. He's not someone you can expect to turn the tides when the going gets tough, and many people thought he would be exactly that.
Still, there aren't many real DLPs out there, and if we were to sell him, I'd hope we have some kind of replacement. Otherwise James would end up being our only really creative CM player.
I understand your frustration @hasanejaz88 but Thiago is not the problem for Bayern in big games. The build-up has been more than fine in the last few years, it's being clinical in front of goal that has been their undoing. And that is in direct correlation with the gradual decline/absence of Robbery. Don't know if you watched the second leg against Madrid, but he was exceptional in the withdrawn role.
If anyone is a liability on and off the pitch, it's Vidal. Unlike Vidal, Thiago despite his injuries has played a season when he carried the team. But it's players like him and Pogba who are the first victims of criticism when the team underperforms, not "warriors" like Vidal.
I've grown tired of mentioning this, but Thiago's defensive work is also highly overlooked. The "zero substance" allegation has no basis except perception.
Tbh I'm not very hopeful of his future under Kovac, especially if the playing style becomes similar to Frankfurt. Hoeness is slightly old-school as it is, so we might see Thiago leaving maybe next season. But he has looked in good form since coming back from injury and I expect him to do well in the World Cup.
If anyone is a liability on and off the pitch, it's Vidal. Unlike Vidal, Thiago despite his injuries has played a season when he carried the team. But it's players like him and Pogba who are the first victims of criticism when the team underperforms, not "warriors" like Vidal.
I've grown tired of mentioning this, but Thiago's defensive work is also highly overlooked. The "zero substance" allegation has no basis except perception.
Generally agree with you. I'm not saying he's faultless, and his injury record does make him unreliable. But really, he's not the problem for Bayern, neither is the area of the pitch he operates in. We are praising James to the moon right now, didn't Thiago do as well in 2016/17? I think a player with his skill-set is an easy target, the first guy who becomes a scapegoat.You have to feel for the guy. Since his favorite scapegoat for our misfortunes since 2013 left for City, he's been hyping up Ancelotti and Heynckes as the real sages who'd deliver what Baldy couldn't.
Well, we know where this got us.
So, logically, other candidates for the pyre need to be identified
Thiago isn't as bad as some folks are now trying to paint him. It's true however, that he failed to live up to his huge promise. He's not someone you can expect to turn the tides when the going gets tough, and many people thought he would be exactly that.
Still, there aren't many real DLPs out there, and if we were to sell him, I'd hope we have some kind of replacement. Otherwise James would end up being our only really creative CM player.
Tbh I'm not very hopeful of his future under Kovac, especially if the playing style becomes similar to Frankfurt. Hoeness is slightly old-school as it is, so we might see Thiago leaving maybe next season. But he has looked in good form since coming back from injury and I expect him to do well in the World Cup.
Your Guardiola fandom really is appaling, you can't go a second without mentioning him can you? And yes: Heynckes got closer than Guardiola ever did to win it. With a squad far older, and he only took over halfway into the season. Speaks volumes in my opinion, but that's probably just me.You have to feel for the guy. Since his favorite scapegoat for our misfortunes since 2013 left for City, he's been hyping up Ancelotti and Heynckes as the real sages who'd deliver what Baldy couldn't.
Well, we know where this got us.
So, logically, other candidates for the pyre need to be identified
Thiago isn't as bad as some folks are now trying to paint him. It's true however, that he failed to live up to his huge promise. He's not someone you can expect to turn the tides when the going gets tough, and many people thought he would be exactly that.
Still, there aren't many real DLPs out there, and if we were to sell him, I'd hope we have some kind of replacement. Otherwise James would end up being our only really creative CM player.
Mate, you don't wtch Bayern games except a few highlight reels. And sorry, but Thiago is surplus to requirements. He's not bad, but he never will be what we actually need in midfield. Because yes, as others have said: in his mind, he's an Arsenal player.
Thiago is not a 10 or a 10 is not what we need in this matches. We have too much possession we cannot convert into goals and our offensives are toothless. And because of errors in the defense we always seem to be the one that are behind what makes it a lot more difficult as you cannot risk getting another goal but need to put risk into your play to break the defense. But Thiago is not the one that can solve this problems directly. He is the guy with the ball who has to play behind the offensives - and that always worked great when he has 4 offensives in front of him. And what is a big game - the match against Porto 3 years ago for sure was one when we were 1:3 back after the first match.