Did it have silky Cruyff turns, and then abrupt editing just before the ball rolls out for a throw in?
Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Did it have silky Cruyff turns, and then abrupt editing just before the ball rolls out for a throw in?
Sorry but I disagree, from the first 5 minutes of his debut it was very clear he was going to be huge. My recollection of the transfer was the fact that everybody who had been watching him was telling everyone who would listen as to how special he would be. I remember I taped the debut and made sure i didnt miss it because I got the impression from all reports I read that he was something special.
just 'I'm going to sign the contract on Monday'
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...et-thiago-is-more-than-anarchist-8669363.html
lf Manchester United can complete the signing of Barcelona’s Thiago Alcantara they will have captured one of European football’s most cavalier young talents – a free spirit whose penchant for trying the unexpected has attracted the interest of United, but also helped persuade Barça to let him go.
It now looks like their decision to set his buyout clause as low as £15m will go down as one of the gaffes of the summer – Barcelona could have raised considerably more after he starred in Spain Under-21s European Championship triumph this month. But the bargain price hints at a nagging doubt shared by certain members of the club’s technical staff, who believe he gives the ball away too much and is slow to win it back. They say he is an anarchist on the pitch.The observations should not raise too much alarm among United fans as this criticism is a result of him being judged by Barça’s standards. He has been measured against Xavi, who went through one Champions League game last season against Paris Saint-Germain without giving the ball away once. Similarly, the observation that Thiago can be slow to win it back is true only when applying Barça’s golden rule of regaining possession within seconds of having lost it. Opta stats had him excelling in the Euros at both winning and keeping the ball.Take away the Barcelona yardsticks and you are left with a wonderful player – one who former Barça coach Pep Guardiola was last night urging his Bayern Munich directors to try to sign having been made aware of Thiago’s decision to leave the Nou Camp.“I am not going to change my way of playing football,” Thiago said at the start of the 2011-12 season. “It is what has got me where I am today. I just need to polish up certain things and that will happen with time.”There have not been enough opportunities to do that at Barça. At the Under-21 Championship he stood out playing in the three behind the striker with the support of two holding midfielders behind him. At Barcelona that is a space occupied primarily by Lionel Messi, Cesc Fabregas, Andres Iniesta and now Neymar too. Thiago has to play deeper and, with fewer options to shoot or play the final killer ball, he is more likely to gamble with possession. In the more chaotic environment of the Premier League he will thrive as much as he did in Israel.As players from that successful Under-21 team returned to Spain this week the man who scored a hat-trick in the final against Italy juggled the match ball signed by his team-mates as he headed to the arrivals lounge. He is more “made in Brazil” than born to play for Barcelona, although he chose Spain over the country his father Mazhino played for 35 times.“I am who I am thanks to Spain,” Thiago said before making his pledge of allegiance. He is desperate to follow up this season’s success by starring in next summer’s World Cup, but knows he must find a better platform from which to do that than the Barcelona bench.
lf Manchester United can complete the signing of Barcelona’s Thiago Alcantara they will have captured one of European football’s most cavalier young talents – a free spirit whose penchant for trying the unexpected has attracted the interest of United, but also helped persuade Barça to let him go.
It now looks like their decision to set his buyout clause as low as £15m will go down as one of the gaffes of the summer – Barcelona could have raised considerably more after he starred in Spain Under-21s European Championship triumph this month. But the bargain price hints at a nagging doubt shared by certain members of the club’s technical staff, who believe he gives the ball away too much and is slow to win it back. They say he is an anarchist on the pitch.The observations should not raise too much alarm among United fans as this criticism is a result of him being judged by Barça’s standards. He has been measured against Xavi, who went through one Champions League game last season against Paris Saint-Germain without giving the ball away once. Similarly, the observation that Thiago can be slow to win it back is true only when applying Barça’s golden rule of regaining possession within seconds of having lost it. Opta stats had him excelling in the Euros at both winning and keeping the ball.Take away the Barcelona yardsticks and you are left with a wonderful player – one who former Barça coach Pep Guardiola was last night urging his Bayern Munich directors to try to sign having been made aware of Thiago’s decision to leave the Nou Camp.“I am not going to change my way of playing football,” Thiago said at the start of the 2011-12 season. “It is what has got me where I am today. I just need to polish up certain things and that will happen with time.”There have not been enough opportunities to do that at Barça. At the Under-21 Championship he stood out playing in the three behind the striker with the support of two holding midfielders behind him. At Barcelona that is a space occupied primarily by Lionel Messi, Cesc Fabregas, Andres Iniesta and now Neymar too. Thiago has to play deeper and, with fewer options to shoot or play the final killer ball, he is more likely to gamble with possession. In the more chaotic environment of the Premier League he will thrive as much as he did in Israel.As players from that successful Under-21 team returned to Spain this week the man who scored a hat-trick in the final against Italy juggled the match ball signed by his team-mates as he headed to the arrivals lounge. He is more “made in Brazil” than born to play for Barcelona, although he chose Spain over the country his father Mazhino played for 35 times.“I am who I am thanks to Spain,” Thiago said before making his pledge of allegiance. He is desperate to follow up this season’s success by starring in next summer’s World Cup, but knows he must find a better platform from which to do that than the Barcelona bench.
No, I went back and looked, it's a goal compilation. It has some badge kissing though..
Cat-F, Cat-F... Ca-....
Cheers, not that it makes a difference was just curious.
You're a Twat, bo
Goddamn, my inner muppet is beyond excitement. It's been so long since we signed a fidmeilder that I've forgotton how to say it.
I think your comment has made me work out just why this possible signing seems so huge to me, its our first proper cm in ages.
And a pure steal from under the noses of the biggest shithouses on the transfer market today, Barca.
Pinching Thiago just has so many wins.
That Independent article above has thrown me off a little. Where would he like to play? as a no.10?
Who made the observation that Thiago is slow winning the ball back, or was that just written as an excuse to say he was great at the u21 Euros? I always thought he was pretty energetic and decent defensively for an attack minded midfielder, so I'm guessing the latter.
I'm not normally one to really let my inner muppet out but for Thiago I have to.. what a fecking signing this lad would be for us. For £15m too it would be an absolute steal, I've always rated him higher than Wilshere and he'd cost £35m plus for reasons. The last time I felt this way about a potential transfer was Ronaldinho and we know how that ended up..
I'm not normally one to really let my inner muppet out but for Thiago I have to.. what a fecking signing this lad would be for us. For £15m too it would be an absolute steal, I've always rated him higher than Wilshere and he'd cost £35m plus for reasons. The last time I felt this way about a potential transfer was Ronaldinho and we know how that ended up..
I'm not sure whens the last time we've tried to sign a player like Thiago - young,potential to become one of the very best in the world and at a cut price too. I think Rooney was probably the most similar in that regard. Ronaldo had nowhere near the hype and wasn't seen as someone who could become the best in the world when he signed in 2003. Thiago is a bona fide world class player in the making.
I think it might be bit of lazy journalism... he has more flair then the likes of Xavi so maybe that somehow equates to being lazy in defence. Wouldn't be worried at all.
Ronaldo absolutely was seen as someone who could become the worlds best when he signed.
No, as a CM. His dad has stated in the past (admittedly quite a long time ago, the quote was around the last time we tried to get him) that he prefers the deeper role. Think he referred to it as the 'Xavi' role.
I don't know how much the Indy journo has actually watched him play. To me, and my eyes, he's more Xavi than Iniesta, though he's got something else about him. Kind of like Anderson when he picks up the ball from the centre back, then charges forwards with it about 40 yards, but instead of booting it out of the stands for a throw in when he was trying to pass it 5 yards to Carrick, Thiago has a bit of end product as well.
By Fergie, I don't think it was widely thought of. Jamie Redknapp spoke of Fergie telling him that Ronaldo we'd one day be the best player in the world and Jamie's response was something like "oh really?"
Problem found.
I was going to say I'm sure Jamie doesn't speak for the rest of the world...Cool, thanks guys.
Was only a 4 star player on my game. Guessing that means about 175 or something.
Maybe we should call it all off?
Well 12 million quid in 2003 was an awful lot of money to spend on an 18 year old.
20 passing on mine. Class for me. It's back on.
Can we not praise a player on the Caf without having a little dig at one of our current players?
I'm not so sure about that. There were a lot of question marks surrounding his overall game - no doubt he had fantastic talent but you weren't 100% sure whether all of it could be refined to produce a world class player. For example, someone like Rooney who we signed a year later was a more complete, refined player who was seen at the time as soemone who will 'more likely' become one of the best players in the world. I don't think I'm alone on that analysis.
Thiago is also someone who has enough trajectory in his development, but at the same time is displaying the skills right now which makes me think he is nailed on to become one of the best players in the world within a few years.
His PA is set at 180, and players over 180 PA are classed as world class. Sign him up.
Fair play. On.
There was loads of doubt about Ronaldo from all quarters just to add to what's being said in here, particularly throughout his second and third season. Rooney looked absolutely destined to be top drawer, but with Ronaldo this frankly ridiculous player just began to emerge from about February of 2006 onwards. There were signs of aerial ability, a goalscorer etc, but beyond excellent dribbling ability, control and technique he didn't excel in every way like he does now. It took him a while to really start looking like a consistent goal threat, and in many ways it was unimaginable that he'd end up like the player he is today. He's completely different. Maybe during that closing period of 05/06 you would've been sensible betting on him becoming about 70-80% as good as he was the following year, but still as a more orthodox winger. Can't remember anyone seeing him having a season that would draw comparisons with Best, nor did anyone forecast the goalscoring machine that came on the scene from 07/08 onwards.
Basically:
Rooney/Fabregas/Messi were seen as dead certs.
Ronaldo was in a category below that - maybe in a category similar to Rafael whereby you could definitely see a world class player, but only on the basis that flaws were ironed out and strengths were made more consistent.
Worth noting that Fergie did say something like "in a few years, these two are all you'll ever be talking about" in regards to Rooney and Ronaldo. He definitely saw it coming, just as he did with Rafael when he said 'sometimes...you just know".
Alan Hansen, is that you?
Ronaldo was always going to become one of the best players in the world, he was being labelled as a 'one trick pony' by some of the media and other fans because of the stepovers but anyone with a shred of sense could tell that he was heading for the top.
No doubt Rooney was more developed physically than Ronaldo at the time so he used it to bully players when he first started, and he had a mature understanding of the game for his age but those things were great for his 'current level' at 18 but were not areas you'd expect much further development. Ronaldo had a much more consistent touch and was a better technical dribbler, with a wide range of skills and great flair (he also had a decent strike on him and often hit the post or narrowly missed), yes he dwelt on the ball a bit too long and was inconsistent with his final ball- all of which you expect from a young inexperienced winger, but he seemed a very determined player and was always going to improve. Rooney had less room to improve because he was an early bloomer physically but could never reach the athletic prowess of Ronaldo in his peak- the kind of technical skill that Ronaldo has is something you can't train after a certain age so Rooney was never going to reach his level, IMO.
However yes, Thiago is more advanced at 22 after a few seasons in Barca's first team than Ronaldo was at 17 after 6 months in Sporting Lisbon's.
22 year old Ronaldo >>>> 22 year old Thiago too, that's for sure. No disrespect to Thiago's talent obviously (his progression will be different given his position), but Ronaldo was the best in the world at that age.
Definitely. Ronaldo is a top 10 of all time player, Thiago is (if he's lucky with injuries) probably going to be top 3 central midfielders of his generation but won't get anywhere near the GoAT list.
As a signing Thiago is a more juicy signing than Ronaldo was because of the differences in reputation and achievement in the game but that says nothing about potential.
Yeah, must admit that, whatever the comparison, this potential Thiago signing is the most exciting one in years. Probably since Rooney. A central fecking midfielder of that talent and development with so much room for improvement....
It's going to be so disappointing if we don't sign him. I'm gonna go round every thread ridiculing the possibility of every transfer just to avoid such a disappointment happening ever again.
Your post is correct but only with hindsight could you say all of that, especially what you said in the second paragraph.
My point was that at the time, you could not foresee all that. People weren't really talking about Rooney as a player that had developed ahead of his age group etc... he was seen a genuine world class talent regardless of all of that, and someone who could easily reach the very top of the game. Ffs are you forgetting about the White Pele hype in Euro 2004? And even when he made his Utd debut in the CL? For the first two years he was more complete and had more hype and more potential for growth than Ronaldo. Only with hindsight are you able to highlight the flaws in Rooney's game/potential... Ronaldo was a tricky winger for sure but he was someone we had to groom for a few seasons. Yes of course he was young, but he wasn't seen as a dead cert to become the best player in the world like Rooney was.
This post is exactly what my thoughts are on this issue... and there are less doubts/uncertainties in Thiago's game now than in someone like Ronaldo at the time we signed him. Of course, Ronaldo was 18 and Thiago is 22 so the comparison is not fair. But I wasn't taking into account of the player's age... I was saying simply 'the last time we signed a young player who was seen as a pretty much dead cert to become a world class player" was probably Rooney and Ronaldo doesn't fit in that bracket, irrespective of age.Fair play. On.
There was loads of doubt about Ronaldo from all quarters just to add to what's being said in here, particularly throughout his second and third season. Rooney looked absolutely destined to be top drawer, but with Ronaldo this frankly ridiculous player just began to emerge from about February of 2006 onwards. There were signs of aerial ability, a goalscorer etc, but beyond excellent dribbling ability and technique he didn't excel many ways like he does now. It really took him a while to really start looking like a consistent goal threat, and in many ways it was unimaginable that he'd end up like the player he is today. He's completely different. Maybe during that closing period of 05/06 you would've been sensible betting on him becoming about 70-80% as good as he was the following year, but still as a more orthodox winger. Can't remember anyone seeing him having a season that would draw comparisons with Best, nor did anyone forecast the goalscoring machine that came on the scene from 07/08 onwards.
Basically:
Rooney/Fabregas/Messi were seen as dead certs.
Ronaldo was in a category below that - maybe in a category similar to Rafael whereby you could definitely see a world class player, but only on the basis that flaws were ironed out and strengths were made more consistent.
Worth noting that Fergie did say something like "in a few years, these two are all you'll ever be talking about" in regards to Rooney and Ronaldo. He definitely saw it coming, just as he did with Rafael when he said 'sometimes...you just know".
You over-rate Rooney as a player...surprising for someone who no doubt reveres Monsieur Cantona (Dieu)Basically:
Rooney/Fabregas/Messi were seen as dead certs.
Ronaldo was in a category below that - maybe in a category similar to Rafael whereby you could definitely see a world class player, but only on the basis that flaws were ironed out and strengths were made more consistent.
Worth noting that Fergie did say something like "in a few years, these two are all you'll ever be talking about" in regards to Rooney and Ronaldo. He definitely saw it coming, just as he did with Rafael when he said 'sometimes...you just know".
Sorry cant agree, Ronaldo from the moment we signed him was always going to be a dead cert world class player, its why he was so expensive at the time. 12 million quid for an 18 year old in 2003 was a lot of money. He fitted that bracket, i remember it all very clearly. I made sure i got to watch his debut and his first few touches brought back memories of when i used to watch george best at OT. That debut 20 minutes confirmed what many at hinted at.
But I'm referring to the respective players' hype before they've kicked a ball - the moment they've signed. Not after their debut. And in any case, despite his fantastic debut there were still a lot of questions about him week in week out whether he can adapt to the English game because he was diving too much, being targeted by opposition players, end product was frustrating etc. I don't know, there is a lot of revisionism here from you I think.
And wasn't that 12.24 million or whatever we paid for him his release fee clause? (ironic Thiago has one too). Sporting didn't want to let him go but we triggered it so they had to let him go, and also we had first option ahead of any other club (Arsenal were in the hunt for him too). I don't think you can use the fee as a barometer of his world class potential in this case. Rooney for 27million at 19 years old in 2004? How is that for you then?
Ronaldo was less know before we have signed him (at 18 years of age which is the case), but saying that he was in a category similar to Rafael was way over. Remember after we have played Sporting in friendly the whole team was begging Fergie to sign him, so I think most who have played against him or watched him playing (not many) would think he is dead cert world class player.
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