This bit needs a lot of emphasis. Exactly why we would be getting nowhere if we had persisted with Mourinho or Moyes.
Things we learned from Liverpool
- Thread starter Isotope
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Marco Rose. German, 42, played under Klopp for six years at Mainz and manages RB Salzburg. He is off to Germany next season though, but I hope we keep an eye on him.
That you dont need a Paul Pogba type of player in midfield to be a success, in fact you dont have to have exceptionally gifted technical players in midfield.
Liverpool last night didn't have the usual deep lying playmaker that tend to lack in dynamism that a lot of fans want at their club, for example Basquets, Neves or Jorginho. Liverpool had Fabinho who is not as gifted on the ball as these players but far excels with his dynamism, aggression, imposing physicality and mobility to cover ground quickly with and without the ball. Maybe if solskjear wants to play this pressing style would it not be more wise to instead of relying on a slow, lumbering deep lying playmaker mould in Matic, we shift to a defensive midfielder more like Fabinho in Mctominay?
You look at their other midfielders last as well, Milner, Wijnaldum and Henderson shouldn't be able to compete with what Barca or city have in their midfield but they have shown they can overwhelm these sides with more athleticism, intensity, ability to carry tha ball up the pitch, dynamism and workrate when it is in sync with the whole team pressing correctly, Barca looked liked they didn't have the legs to match that intensity and we have even seen pep Guardiola actually play more conservative against liverpool of late.
So is it truly the end of the world if United lose Pogba this summer or have to sign some amazing technically gifted passer of the ball to replace him to get back to the top? There is proof out there that no it wont be.
Liverpool last night didn't have the usual deep lying playmaker that tend to lack in dynamism that a lot of fans want at their club, for example Basquets, Neves or Jorginho. Liverpool had Fabinho who is not as gifted on the ball as these players but far excels with his dynamism, aggression, imposing physicality and mobility to cover ground quickly with and without the ball. Maybe if solskjear wants to play this pressing style would it not be more wise to instead of relying on a slow, lumbering deep lying playmaker mould in Matic, we shift to a defensive midfielder more like Fabinho in Mctominay?
You look at their other midfielders last as well, Milner, Wijnaldum and Henderson shouldn't be able to compete with what Barca or city have in their midfield but they have shown they can overwhelm these sides with more athleticism, intensity, ability to carry tha ball up the pitch, dynamism and workrate when it is in sync with the whole team pressing correctly, Barca looked liked they didn't have the legs to match that intensity and we have even seen pep Guardiola actually play more conservative against liverpool of late.
So is it truly the end of the world if United lose Pogba this summer or have to sign some amazing technically gifted passer of the ball to replace him to get back to the top? There is proof out there that no it wont be.
That you don’t need megastars in your team and you shouldn’t turn your nose up at every player because they play for a deemed much lesser team.
“Mane? He plays for Saints. He won’t improve us”
“Robertson? Behave”
“Wijnaldum? Only if we’re aspiring for Europa League”
“Van Dijk? He played for Celtic. Say no more”
“Salah? Not even Mourinho could make him look good”
“Mane? He plays for Saints. He won’t improve us”
“Robertson? Behave”
“Wijnaldum? Only if we’re aspiring for Europa League”
“Van Dijk? He played for Celtic. Say no more”
“Salah? Not even Mourinho could make him look good”
Identify a style of play, then bring players in that suit that style.
Every player they’ve signed has been well scouted and easily accessible. In the time since Klopps been there or even since Fergie has left we’ve signed way more ready made stars. Pogba,Di Maria,Ibrahimovic and Sacnchez. It hasn’t worked because were signing and hoping for the best.
Liverpool have signed 3 players from relegated teams. Gini,shaquiri and Robertson. They were laughed at for signing Ox & spending the amount they did on VVD, but Klopp knew they’d fit is style and plan.
They sign players ready to make the next step up so they have that hunger to improve.
Every player they’ve signed has been well scouted and easily accessible. In the time since Klopps been there or even since Fergie has left we’ve signed way more ready made stars. Pogba,Di Maria,Ibrahimovic and Sacnchez. It hasn’t worked because were signing and hoping for the best.
Liverpool have signed 3 players from relegated teams. Gini,shaquiri and Robertson. They were laughed at for signing Ox & spending the amount they did on VVD, but Klopp knew they’d fit is style and plan.
They sign players ready to make the next step up so they have that hunger to improve.
100%
It is about a players character and mindset as well as football capability.
Are they hungry.
Do they put the team first.
Will they train hard enough.
Will they give everything they have when things get difficult.
Are they capable of executing team tactics.
How many of our players tick those boxes.
Hope no one is trying to compare Klopp with Solskjaer, they are two completely different managers, different careers, different philosophy, different ethos.
Just because you give Klopp time doesn't mean any manager can be given time. Klopp is a world class manager, the writing is still on the wall for Solskjaer but thus far (managerially) he's been quite poor.
Just because you give Klopp time doesn't mean any manager can be given time. Klopp is a world class manager, the writing is still on the wall for Solskjaer but thus far (managerially) he's been quite poor.
To create a comparison between two managers based on both of their first few months of form in the premier league rather than looking at the whole picture is crazy, I can remember when fans tried to make clutching at straws comparisons with Moyes and Alex Ferguson to make an argument for him being allowed more than a season at the club when it was blatantly obvious he was way out of his depth, some people never learn it seems.
Right on..give Karius a shot!
Fans moaning about fans moaning transfers should realise none of the moaning has any effect on the transfers.
That's the difference right there. If you want to get really basic about it, Liverpool play as a team. They've got stars and a supporting cast but they all seem to be on the same page and they're playing for each other. United just seem like a collection of 11 individuals thrown together in the hope they can make it work.
You speak a truth mate. That post is way too on point to be comfortable.
Each of the above have turned out to be outstanding signings. The thing that is most impressive is that Klopp seems to be able to operate at any end of the transfer market: picking up a bargain like Robertson for £8m, offering a way back to a Premier League flop like Salah for £37m or playing the waiting game and paying the asking price for a top centre back like Van Dijk for £75m. These and others have proved to be astute signings and, at today's prices, if the players you mentioned went on the market tomorrow, I doubt you'd get much change from £450m. That said Klopp's judgement has not always been good. He waited too long to replace Karius and that cost Liverpool the Champions League last season. But for the most part Klopp's business has been very good, not just for the players he buys, but also those he improves.
My concern is that we are looking for Hollywood signings. Big name players like De Maria, De Puy, Falcao, Pogba, Lukaku and Martial have only delivered disappointment. They have super-sized egos and are only too willing to kiss the badge of the highest bidder. I wonder when United recruit players what level of due diligence is done? Does the club find out what kind of friends the players have? Whether he has a stable relationship? What his extended family is like? What kind of extra curricular activities he engages in? How he responds to authority? Or do we just check his stats and hope for the best? It may seem way over-board on the face of it, but player investment is essentially risk capital, you have to know what you are getting or you will get what you're given. I have no idea what Liverpool's recruitment strategy or approach is, but there is no shame in football. If it works for them then it can work for United.
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Some times selling your best player is vital to start a proper rebuild.
These guys know alittle more about football than some give them credit for.
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Shouldn't this be in the 'Football Forum section'?Add "Things we learned from Spurs" -- same thing really.
I'm learning from Klopp and Pochetinho (and Guardiola) that any successful modern manager has to have a passionate relationship with his players. Liverpool and Spurs players look up to their manager like a respected and loved slightly older relative. They can't help but respond to the insane positive energy levels the manager gives off. Ole came in and his positivity was a remarkable breath of fresh air compared to the miserable slouch who'd just departed, but perhaps it was too much too soon. (Or perhaps these players are duds and Ole doesn't have a scooby tactically.) But you can't deny that Klopp and Poch are genuine monster motivators nor can you fake what they've got..
I know one thing we should pick up from Liverpool: "Next year".
Player for player we are better!
I still remember the reaction here when I suggest Shaqiri for Man Utd back in summer. He only cost 15m. Of course as always he is not good enough even for the bench and is only perfect for small clubs like arsenal, spur and Liverpool.
It will not change. There is always the next shiny toy to go after like 120m for Sancho, Felix, dybala etc, and you can't build a team without spending 700m.
Klopp basically built an entire new team. From attack to gk.
Surprising part is, we find these posts in transfer forum even today.
I'm talking about the playstyle not the players.
The turnaround in players wasnt over one season and the playstyle was similar so it was an easier to build on and gain momentum year on year.
We're going from longball to low risk possession to deep counter attacking to high press in four managers...
Entirely correct.
Individuals and hope. And not very much effort by the way.
Nothing more than that.
Yeh. It's amazing that the majority of his purchase has been spot on. Even Sir Alex was in the zone of 50:50 success ratio.
The biggest lesson we should have learnt isn't apparent to many posters on here obviously!
It is not all about Klopp - in fact, Klopp is just one piece of the jigsaw! We as fans, as a club, HAVE to get away from this Cult of the Manager that we have been obsessed with for so long.
The point at which Liverpool turned the corner was when they appointed Michael Edwards and his team of analysts to modernise the way they assessed footballers. I remember articles at the time ridiculing the owners and writing supportive articles of Brendan Rogers, claiming Edwards and the infamous 'transfer committee' where undermining him........well look at how badly those articles have aged!
ALL of the players currently tearing it up for Liverpool were recommended and bought in by Edwards and his team. Mane, Salah, Allisson, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Van Dijk, Firminho.....I could go on.....some of the them have been expensively purchased but they all without exception look like fantastic value now. Meanwhile, we have stumbled around making some of the most atrocious signings for huge money in modern history.
What Klopp does at Liverpool is important - but never overestimate the importance of a single manager to Liverpool or Manchester City, for that matter. What they have achieved is down to the modernisation of their structure and the staff they have bought in, often unheralded, who provide critical support for the manager
If you don't understand the above, you won't understand why we have struggled so badly
It is not all about Klopp - in fact, Klopp is just one piece of the jigsaw! We as fans, as a club, HAVE to get away from this Cult of the Manager that we have been obsessed with for so long.
The point at which Liverpool turned the corner was when they appointed Michael Edwards and his team of analysts to modernise the way they assessed footballers. I remember articles at the time ridiculing the owners and writing supportive articles of Brendan Rogers, claiming Edwards and the infamous 'transfer committee' where undermining him........well look at how badly those articles have aged!
ALL of the players currently tearing it up for Liverpool were recommended and bought in by Edwards and his team. Mane, Salah, Allisson, Wijnaldum, Robertson, Van Dijk, Firminho.....I could go on.....some of the them have been expensively purchased but they all without exception look like fantastic value now. Meanwhile, we have stumbled around making some of the most atrocious signings for huge money in modern history.
What Klopp does at Liverpool is important - but never overestimate the importance of a single manager to Liverpool or Manchester City, for that matter. What they have achieved is down to the modernisation of their structure and the staff they have bought in, often unheralded, who provide critical support for the manager
If you don't understand the above, you won't understand why we have struggled so badly