Most of our current squad haven't come from massive clubs either, bar Matic, Sanchez, Mata, Pogba. We just haven't recruited very well, at all.
Things we learned from Liverpool
- Thread starter Isotope
- Start date
Funny you mentioned Ronald and getting kicked in training. The same tactics were used back in The days of Busby on such young players as Best and Charlton just to toughen them up.
Pogba and Martial could do with one, up the arse on the way out of the door!
It’s amazing how far you can get from being well-coached, understanding your role in a system, and working hard. Of course, Liverpool have top quality players too, which is why they’re so good.
although I hope we can find one of the less medieval families to take over who don't resort to bone saws to settle disputes.[/QUOTE]
Oh I don’t know, I’d like to see most of our current squad threatened with one of those.
Oh I don’t know, I’d like to see most of our current squad threatened with one of those.
Yeah but we will still complain if we end up with the best players from mid-table clubs. See Doucoure thread.
I think we fans also need to learn from Liverpool fans.
Klopp came 8th in his first season in the league. Even if you put his other achievement of taking them into the LC and Europa League final, I'm sure any manager of ours would've been criticized if they had the same results. Liverpool fans though saw that he was developing the squad and making them play a more attractive style of football. They remained patient with him and I didn't hear any calls about whether he was the right manager or not.
This is a lesson for us with regards to Ole, there is no doubt that Ole has improved our style of play from what it was under Mourinho. Yes, results haven't gone our way lately but there is definite improvement from how we were playing before that. Yet there are many here who are now wondering why we gave him a full contract and that he's the wrong signing.
Liverpool fans realized that they were never going to be a title contending team anytime soon after Klopp came but rather his impact would be felt a few seasons on after he got some of his own players and the players were more attuned to his style of play. We have to realize the same as well, even if we spend 200 mil, we should still not expect Ole to put forward a title challenge. What we should rather hope to see is an improvement in our style of play and also a top 4 spot.
Klopp came 8th in his first season in the league. Even if you put his other achievement of taking them into the LC and Europa League final, I'm sure any manager of ours would've been criticized if they had the same results. Liverpool fans though saw that he was developing the squad and making them play a more attractive style of football. They remained patient with him and I didn't hear any calls about whether he was the right manager or not.
This is a lesson for us with regards to Ole, there is no doubt that Ole has improved our style of play from what it was under Mourinho. Yes, results haven't gone our way lately but there is definite improvement from how we were playing before that. Yet there are many here who are now wondering why we gave him a full contract and that he's the wrong signing.
Liverpool fans realized that they were never going to be a title contending team anytime soon after Klopp came but rather his impact would be felt a few seasons on after he got some of his own players and the players were more attuned to his style of play. We have to realize the same as well, even if we spend 200 mil, we should still not expect Ole to put forward a title challenge. What we should rather hope to see is an improvement in our style of play and also a top 4 spot.
Exactly. Also their DoF who is doing superb job was promoted from different role, but we complain if we are not linked with hyped DoF.
The importance of the manager. It's down to Klopp that the likes of Henderson, Matip, Fabinho (imv mediocre players) can perform as they did last night.
100% this.
The team is greater and more important than the individual. Anyone who does not buy into that simple concept is an expendable problem. That means individuals sacrificing, adapting to the needs of the team rather than the team adapting to their needs. Martial doesn't want to run off the ball, well then, out you go, Pogba gets bored playing in cm with responsibility to defend, go find another team to bow to your needs.
We hve prioritized the wrong qualities.
We hve prioritized the wrong qualities.
The club’s current narcissism unfairly rejects many potential transfers.
They have done well but the process is long and painful to endure. Give any manager a proper backing with direction, yeah you’ll get there.
Best team on paper and spending massive money on players doesn't usually work well in the CL.
Can be beaten by a supposedly inferior team with good coaching and motivation.
Last night very similar to the way Benitez won the CL in 2005 with a team that by all logic should have been far inferior to AC Milan and got through the semis agains the best Chelsea side in our history.
Can be beaten by a supposedly inferior team with good coaching and motivation.
Last night very similar to the way Benitez won the CL in 2005 with a team that by all logic should have been far inferior to AC Milan and got through the semis agains the best Chelsea side in our history.
Get a charismatic manager whos vision, attitude and character rubs off on his players.
I feel like we have gone down the road of buying random mercenaries. We don't have a style or vision that suits the players we buy. We don't buy them because they have the right mentality and are suited to be in our group . They also don't have special talents that we think we could develop into something better.
We just see some big names and bring them in and hope it will work. Also mainly attracting them by big money. If someone is hyped up we go for them because they are hyped up. It is like our owner wants to spend money since it looks like they are trying to improve us. Although they just want to keep earning money.
We just see some big names and bring them in and hope it will work. Also mainly attracting them by big money. If someone is hyped up we go for them because they are hyped up. It is like our owner wants to spend money since it looks like they are trying to improve us. Although they just want to keep earning money.
I would assist you in kicking them out. I belive in the need to keep things simple to a point. Train as hard as you play and never give an inch. Those not able to take that can be elsewhere. Depite all the talk of using different tactics and us needing to sign this player to make for instance Pogba work better as a player when the simple fact is that you have to be in the best physical condition possible and having the the mental strenght to keep going no matter what´s thrown at you. We sadly have a group of soft players that are not willing to do basic things like offensive runs, tracking back, winning tackles and so on. On top of that we have no leaders in the squad and Young being captain of Man Utd is just cringeworthy. We have gone from Robson,Keano,Schmeicel,Nev and others to A.Young. It´s like the Avangers being led by Boy George.
I would say the biggest thing you can learn, is how important it is to have a manager who works perfectly in concert with his sporting director and scouting network.
At Dortmund, Kloppo, Watzke and Zorc where called the Holy Trinity. And it looks to me like a similar situation is working at Liverpool - Klopp and their director Michael Edwards and scouts obviously work amazingly well together. Klopp may be a big personality, but he has no ego, and that goes a long way to making these relationships work.
And with that structure, there needs to be a methodology. Rather than go all out to change a team dramatically, rather, a patience to do so piece by piece. And the personality of the player is as important as the talent.
At Dortmund, Kloppo, Watzke and Zorc where called the Holy Trinity. And it looks to me like a similar situation is working at Liverpool - Klopp and their director Michael Edwards and scouts obviously work amazingly well together. Klopp may be a big personality, but he has no ego, and that goes a long way to making these relationships work.
And with that structure, there needs to be a methodology. Rather than go all out to change a team dramatically, rather, a patience to do so piece by piece. And the personality of the player is as important as the talent.
Patience with a manager with a clear playing style and track record to prove it.
As much as Ole could turn out to be a great manager there is no track record to keep us patient when we hit the rocks.
As much as Ole could turn out to be a great manager there is no track record to keep us patient when we hit the rocks.
It doesn't take an ex player to understand what the club, culture, history, fans, city etc is all about.
Add me to those who think that the indvidual players in Liverpool's first team squad are not measurably better than ours in ability, but they do appear to have heart, good attitude, and to care about their club and supporters - all of which the majority of our players appear to not give a shit about.
The sad truth is that not many of our players would be starting in XI of Liverpool and United. On current form perhaps none?
He got the attack right using players who the top clubs werent competing for. It wasnt instant or with the very first players that were there but he got there despite Liverpool selling Sterling and Coutinho along the way.Second time in a row, Liverpool has reached Champions League Final. This time by doing the "unthinkable", overturn a 3-0 defeat with no Salah and Firminho against the mighty Messilona.
Also this season, they're going neck to neck with City for League title, 94 points with one game to go.
There's Chinese proverb "When I walk along with two others, from at least one I will be able to learn."
So, what can we learn from Liverpool "the Cream of Europe" FC ?
I'll start:
- Klopp has a system, and he gets players that fit in his system instead of the other way around.
Klopp took over in October, so after the summer transfer window ^
Then he went to strengthen the back with a goalkeeper and CB that were both expensive but would otherwise have had competition for.
And finally he's strengthened midfield, but its a functional team oriented midfield that helps the defense have less work to do while Wjnaldum is the one player who is more forward thinking.
This is essentially the complete opposite way of doing things to what you see most posters here suggest. They complain that we need to start with the defense, even though we don't have an attack that scares teams. Next they complain about functional players like Ander because they don't do enough step overs. And then its the attack... 3rd, even though we've had no right winger since Sir Alex's final season and Valencia was playing there.
Liverpool have shown that the attack does a lot of heavy lifting, then comes the defense and having a midfield that supports the defense quite well is okay.
Get a good decent coach. Not past it idiots, toxic cnuts or inexperienced club legends.
Not sure I agree. Looking at the backline I would say VVD, Robertson and TAA are better than our options in the same positions. Particularly, Liverpool have the edge in central defence and right back. Also, do we have forwards of the same quality and Salah and Mane? I wouldn't say so - our main forwards either can't trap a ball to save their life or make terrible decisions on a consistent basis. Pogba is technically better than any of Liverpool's midfielders, but when he only puts in a performance half the time, that doesn't really matter.
I agree that the gulf in performance is not only down to player quality - tactics, motivation and cohesion are also big factors. But I do think that Liverpool have the better starting XI at this point.
This. I've been saying this for ages but our fans like our managerial appointments are also stuck in the middle ages.He got the attack right using players who the top clubs werent competing for. It wasnt instant or with the very first players that were there but he got there despite Liverpool selling Sterling and Coutinho along the way.
Klopp took over in October, so after the summer transfer window ^
Then he went to strengthen the back with a goalkeeper and CB that were both expensive but would otherwise have had competition for.
And finally he's strengthened midfield, but its a functional team oriented midfield that helps the defense have less work to do while Wjnaldum is the one player who is more forward thinking.
This is essentially the complete opposite way of doing things to what you see most posters here suggest. They complain that we need to start with the defense, even though we don't have an attack that scares teams. Next they complain about functional players like Ander because they don't do enough step overs. And then its the attack... 3rd, even though we've had no right winger since Sir Alex's final season and Valencia was playing there.
Liverpool have shown that the attack does a lot of heavy lifting, then comes the defense and having a midfield that supports the defense quite well is okay.
"Great attacks win games, great defenses win titles" or some shit soundbite like that.
We need an arrogant manager with big shiny teeth
Klopp fell into their lap. That's it.
Build from the front. Sort your attack and wingbacks out, then sure things up.
We'd certainly have had a better season if our movement up top, final balls, and finishing was better.
We'd certainly have had a better season if our movement up top, final balls, and finishing was better.
No doubt they have a better group of players - but I wouldn't put them individually a lot better ( like Citeh ) compared to our lot.
Salah and Van Dijk, perhaps, are much better than anything we've got, but the rest ??
I'd say that none of the others are much better than our lot should be and can be on the occasionsit when it suits them.
The difference, I'm sure, is attitude and, perhaps, management style the past couple of years.
Now listen fella. That’s not how things are done around here. For the purpose of the DIR the poster said “I hope that our lads grow some balls and want to beat these scouse bastards down”
I think they are though. Salah is better than Mata or Lingard, Mane is better than Martial and Sanchez (could argue it's their application, but that still counts), Firmino is better than Lukaku, VVD is better than Smalling and Lindelof, TAA is better than Young, Robertson is better than Shaw (at least at attacking/crossing and with pace). Their attitude is what pulls them through cup games like last night, but their quality is what's been winning games where they've not played particularly great.
It's quite telling when I respect and find this Liverpool team far more likeable than my own club.
That tells you the absolute state of the personality we've got at this club.
That tells you the absolute state of the personality we've got at this club.
Liverpool beat Barca because their players are faster, fitter and stronger... and they play tactics where the other team will get found out if they can't match them in those areas.
I think Ole understands this when he says he wants United to be one of the hardest working and fittest teams in the league. We're just way off the pace at the moment unfortunately.
I think Ole understands this when he says he wants United to be one of the hardest working and fittest teams in the league. We're just way off the pace at the moment unfortunately.
There will be over 100 pages of meltdown before the season kicks off in August.
I’ve said this several times, it’s about buying the right players, the ones that suits Ole style.
We need a top manager and we need to back him.
Mane, Arnold, Fabinho and Robertson are better then what we have. TBF, Robertson just edges Shaw. The rest, though, are much better than what we have.
We are on the same page, mate. I've been saying this for ages, we need to improve our attack. Our attack is weak. We need attackers more than any other position (well.. and right back as well). You get more points in the League by one win & one loss, than two 0-0 draws.He got the attack right using players who the top clubs werent competing for. It wasnt instant or with the very first players that were there but he got there despite Liverpool selling Sterling and Coutinho along the way.
Klopp took over in October, so after the summer transfer window ^
Then he went to strengthen the back with a goalkeeper and CB that were both expensive but would otherwise have had competition for.
And finally he's strengthened midfield, but its a functional team oriented midfield that helps the defense have less work to do while Wjnaldum is the one player who is more forward thinking.
This is essentially the complete opposite way of doing things to what you see most posters here suggest. They complain that we need to start with the defense, even though we don't have an attack that scares teams. Next they complain about functional players like Ander because they don't do enough step overs. And then its the attack... 3rd, even though we've had no right winger since Sir Alex's final season and Valencia was playing there.
Liverpool have shown that the attack does a lot of heavy lifting, then comes the defense and having a midfield that supports the defense quite well is okay.
I also thought that we could've win against Barca if only we had good attack.
It really is that simple. City became an unstoppable force after they got Pep In. Liverpool started being taken seriously after they got Klopp in. We have become running joke since the great man left. Having the right man in charge of your team is the single most important decision to get right. For a couple of decades we didn't have to worry, now sadly we do. It's particularly important when you're talking clubs with huge resources.
Does Kloop has any disciple?
The closest is Thomas Tuchel?
We need to get someone who play this modern football (heavy metal or gegenpressing) without spending crazy oil money. If not, we can't compete with City.
The closest is Thomas Tuchel?
We need to get someone who play this modern football (heavy metal or gegenpressing) without spending crazy oil money. If not, we can't compete with City.
Get rid of all deadwoods and hire modern coach with proven philosophy of attacking football to do it.