Most of our current squad haven't come from massive clubs either, bar Matic, Sanchez, Mata, Pogba. We just haven't recruited very well, at all.
Most of our current squad haven't come from massive clubs either, bar Matic, Sanchez, Mata, Pogba. We just haven't recruited very well, at all.
Funny you mentioned Ronald and getting kicked in training. The same tactics were used back in The days of Busby on such young players as Best and Charlton just to toughen them up.Agree with you totally on this, what makes me mad when watching United today is the lack of effort by many of the players. Of course you need talent but there is no matter how much talent you have if you do not do the basic work. One could argue that Henderson,Milner,Robertson,Winjaldum,Origi are not the most talented footballers out there but they sure did play well yesterday in a clear system setup by Klopp. I hate seeing players like Pogba and Martial with all the talent in the world but a lack of workrate that´s just terrible. Ronaldo for all the talent he has is a great example of a top sportsman doing all the right things in taking care of himself and giving his all in a game. He talks about being toughend up by Fergie methods and being kicked constantly in training. Why? To get him ready for what was coming. I´m not sure many of the currenct squad give much of an effort in training. It´s staggering that fitness wise and running wise we seem lightyears behind the other top teams. How can that be at a club like ours?
Yeah but we will still complain if we end up with the best players from mid-table clubs. See Doucoure thread.Wijnaldum - Newcastle
Robertson - hull city
Henderson - subderland
Mane - Southampton
Vvd - Southampton
Firmino - hoffenheim ( I think)
Klopp is a an example of improving players by coaching them and not just acquiring them from real or juventus.
Exactly. Also their DoF who is doing superb job was promoted from different role, but we complain if we are not linked with hyped DoF.Yeah but we will still complain if we end up with the best players from mid-table clubs. See Doucoure thread.
100% this.Be patient with the one who has a clear vision for the future. Stop being kneejerk for some bad results.
He was Jurgen Flopp here for a season or two IIRC.
The club’s current narcissism unfairly rejects many potential transfers.I’ve said that before, just look at some of the players we have signed in the past from smaller clubs:
M Phealen. Norwich
S Bruce. Norwich
P Parker. QPR
V Anderson. Forrest, or was it Arsenal, any way smaller clubs
B McClair. Celtic
G Pallister. Middlesbrough
R Keane. Forrest
B Robson. West Brom
D Irwin. Oldham
The Greenhoff brothers from Stoke.
S Coppel. Tranmere Rovers
The list isn’t exhaustive and there maybe some spelling mistakes. However each one of those players was a success, some more than others but they each played a part in achieving greatness for this club of ours.
And all are British, they knew the clubs history before they even joined they weren’t some Jonny from abroad with a fancy name who just wants too see how much money they can get, they wanted to play for the club, they were proud to play for the club, proud that they had been spotted and that Manchester United wanted them.
Is it too much to ask to get black to basics?
I would assist you in kicking them out. I belive in the need to keep things simple to a point. Train as hard as you play and never give an inch. Those not able to take that can be elsewhere. Depite all the talk of using different tactics and us needing to sign this player to make for instance Pogba work better as a player when the simple fact is that you have to be in the best physical condition possible and having the the mental strenght to keep going no matter what´s thrown at you. We sadly have a group of soft players that are not willing to do basic things like offensive runs, tracking back, winning tackles and so on. On top of that we have no leaders in the squad and Young being captain of Man Utd is just cringeworthy. We have gone from Robson,Keano,Schmeicel,Nev and others to A.Young. It´s like the Avangers being led by Boy George.Funny you mentioned Ronald and getting kicked in training. The same tactics were used back in The days of Busby on such young players as Best and Charlton just to toughen them up.
Pogba and Martial could do with one, up the arse on the way out of the door!
The sad truth is that not many of our players would be starting in XI of Liverpool and United. On current form perhaps none?Add me to those who think that the indvidual players in Liverpool's first team squad are not measurably better than ours in ability, but they do appear to have heart, good attitude, and to care about their club and supporters - all of which the majority of our players appear to not give a shit about.
He got the attack right using players who the top clubs werent competing for. It wasnt instant or with the very first players that were there but he got there despite Liverpool selling Sterling and Coutinho along the way.Second time in a row, Liverpool has reached Champions League Final. This time by doing the "unthinkable", overturn a 3-0 defeat with no Salah and Firminho against the mighty Messilona.
Also this season, they're going neck to neck with City for League title, 94 points with one game to go.
There's Chinese proverb "When I walk along with two others, from at least one I will be able to learn."
So, what can we learn from Liverpool "the Cream of Europe" FC ?
I'll start:
- Klopp has a system, and he gets players that fit in his system instead of the other way around.
Not sure I agree. Looking at the backline I would say VVD, Robertson and TAA are better than our options in the same positions. Particularly, Liverpool have the edge in central defence and right back. Also, do we have forwards of the same quality and Salah and Mane? I wouldn't say so - our main forwards either can't trap a ball to save their life or make terrible decisions on a consistent basis. Pogba is technically better than any of Liverpool's midfielders, but when he only puts in a performance half the time, that doesn't really matter.Add me to those who think that the indvidual players in Liverpool's first team squad are not measurably better than ours in ability, but they do appear to have heart, good attitude, and to care about their club and supporters - all of which the majority of our players appear to not give a shit about.
This. I've been saying this for ages but our fans like our managerial appointments are also stuck in the middle ages.He got the attack right using players who the top clubs werent competing for. It wasnt instant or with the very first players that were there but he got there despite Liverpool selling Sterling and Coutinho along the way.
Klopp took over in October, so after the summer transfer window ^
Then he went to strengthen the back with a goalkeeper and CB that were both expensive but would otherwise have had competition for.
And finally he's strengthened midfield, but its a functional team oriented midfield that helps the defense have less work to do while Wjnaldum is the one player who is more forward thinking.
This is essentially the complete opposite way of doing things to what you see most posters here suggest. They complain that we need to start with the defense, even though we don't have an attack that scares teams. Next they complain about functional players like Ander because they don't do enough step overs. And then its the attack... 3rd, even though we've had no right winger since Sir Alex's final season and Valencia was playing there.
Liverpool have shown that the attack does a lot of heavy lifting, then comes the defense and having a midfield that supports the defense quite well is okay.
Not sure I agree. Looking at the backline I would say VVD, Robertson and TAA are better than our options in the same positions. Particularly, Liverpool have the edge in central defence and right back. Also, do we have forwards of the same quality and Salah and Mane? I wouldn't say so - our main forwards either can't trap a ball to save their life or make terrible decisions on a consistent basis. Pogba is technically better than any of Liverpool's midfielders, but when he only puts in a performance half the time, that doesn't really matter.
I agree that the gulf in performance is not only down to player quality - tactics, motivation and cohesion are also big factors. But I do think that Liverpool have the better starting XI at this point.
Now listen fella. That’s not how things are done around here. For the purpose of the DIR the poster said “I hope that our lads grow some balls and want to beat these scouse bastards down”I really hope Manchester United players were watching last night, I really do. I hope that as they pack their bags to get ready to play Bate Borisov or Uzbekistan Rovers in next season's Europa League, that Liverpool's performance is on a constant loop in their heads, reminding them what it means to be a professional footballer. I really hope that as they think of how they have let the club down this season, they realise that Liverpool have now become the team that Manchester United used to be.
I hope that Ole Gunnar Solksjaer is seething this morning. I hope that Ole uses Liverpool's comeback as a further reason to clear out the dead wood from this United side. I hope Ole does as Alex Ferguson did and use Liverpool's success as the template for his own.
Do you want to know what else I hope? I hope that every United fan wakes up this morning as sick as dogs but full of admiration for what Liverpool have achieved. Do you know why? Because you can never improve if you judge yourself by other people's failure, you improve by judging yourself by their success.
In closing, well done Liverpool. I hope you go on to win the Champions League. I hope you make United's players jealous, I hope you provoke United fans to anger. I hope all these things because maybe, just maybe you can spur us on and remind us of our traditions and history, because if seeing you succeed can't do it then nothing will.
I think they are though. Salah is better than Mata or Lingard, Mane is better than Martial and Sanchez (could argue it's their application, but that still counts), Firmino is better than Lukaku, VVD is better than Smalling and Lindelof, TAA is better than Young, Robertson is better than Shaw (at least at attacking/crossing and with pace). Their attitude is what pulls them through cup games like last night, but their quality is what's been winning games where they've not played particularly great.Add me to those who think that the indvidual players in Liverpool's first team squad are not measurably better than ours in ability, but they do appear to have heart, good attitude, and to care about their club and supporters - all of which the majority of our players appear to not give a shit about.
There will be over 100 pages of meltdown before the season kicks off in August.Gomez but that's not the point. There is this thinking that if player is not great from young age then those players aren't all that good. If the young player shows promise then we should sign him at all costs.
For example, how would have CAF reacted if we signed Salah, Mane, Firmino, Robertson?
Mane, Arnold, Fabinho and Robertson are better then what we have. TBF, Robertson just edges Shaw. The rest, though, are much better than what we have.No doubt they have a better group of players - but I wouldn't put them individually a lot better ( like Citeh ) compared to our lot.
Salah and Van Dijk, perhaps, are much better than anything we've got, but the rest ??
I'd say that none of the others are much better than our lot should be and can be on the occasionsit when it suits them.
The difference, I'm sure, is attitude and, perhaps, management style the past couple of years.
We are on the same page, mate. I've been saying this for ages, we need to improve our attack. Our attack is weak. We need attackers more than any other position (well.. and right back as well). You get more points in the League by one win & one loss, than two 0-0 draws.He got the attack right using players who the top clubs werent competing for. It wasnt instant or with the very first players that were there but he got there despite Liverpool selling Sterling and Coutinho along the way.
Klopp took over in October, so after the summer transfer window ^
Then he went to strengthen the back with a goalkeeper and CB that were both expensive but would otherwise have had competition for.
And finally he's strengthened midfield, but its a functional team oriented midfield that helps the defense have less work to do while Wjnaldum is the one player who is more forward thinking.
This is essentially the complete opposite way of doing things to what you see most posters here suggest. They complain that we need to start with the defense, even though we don't have an attack that scares teams. Next they complain about functional players like Ander because they don't do enough step overs. And then its the attack... 3rd, even though we've had no right winger since Sir Alex's final season and Valencia was playing there.
Liverpool have shown that the attack does a lot of heavy lifting, then comes the defense and having a midfield that supports the defense quite well is okay.
It really is that simple. City became an unstoppable force after they got Pep In. Liverpool started being taken seriously after they got Klopp in. We have become running joke since the great man left. Having the right man in charge of your team is the single most important decision to get right. For a couple of decades we didn't have to worry, now sadly we do. It's particularly important when you're talking clubs with huge resources.That you need a manager that is worth his salt.