Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

TBF going by this threads history, most of AEW doesnt interest you yet you still watch it and comment on it :P


Well...






TBF, theyve been building it since March 6th. Its had a good six week build since the first dynamite after the last PPV.
Saying the guff about not wanting to be a champion is pathetic. Different to me calling him pathetic. Everybody will have a pathetic opinion about something, not everybody is pathetic

Anyway as you have run out of answers i'll assume you realise the error of your ways. Glad to help
 
Saying the guff about not wanting to be a champion is pathetic. Different to me calling him pathetic. Everybody will have a pathetic opinion about something, not everybody is pathetic

Anyway as you have run out of answers i'll assume you realise the error of your ways. Glad to help

So the stuff he says (which he follows through on) is pathetic, not him. Despite the whole convo being about him. Gotcha :lol:
As I said, ok mate. Im sure hes gutted somebody on a forum is calling him pathetic and lacking ambition.
 
Also Jericho winning and getting booed was expected. Surely they can put someone else over.

Yeah, that was standard Jericho. Hook gained far more from the Joe loss, because that was for the title against a dominant champion. Jericho hasn't been a big player in AEW for ages, in fact his booking reminds me a little of Cody's given how separate he seems from everything else.

TBF, theyve been building it since March 6th. Its had a good six week build since the first dynamite after the last PPV.

I think it's pretty generous to call it a build, it's mostly been them having matches with other people and an occasional staredown, there didn't seem to be much story beyond having the match for the sake of it.
 
So the stuff he says (which he follows through on) is pathetic, not him. Despite the whole convo being about him. Gotcha :lol:
As I said, ok mate. Im sure hes gutted somebody on a forum is calling him pathetic and lacking ambition.
I genuinely think you’re just confused and we’re talking about different things

“Im sure hes gutted somebody on a forum is calling him pathetic and lacking ambition.”

A) already explained I didn’t call him pathetic

B) do you understand the point of a discussion forum?
 
Yes a discussion forum, where youve already made your mind up he lacks ambition despite being told why he doesnt, and in this case, hes shown ambition by leaving the comfort of WWE so he can do more than he was doing. Right...

Yeah, that was standard Jericho. Hook gained far more from the Joe loss, because that was for the title against a dominant champion. Jericho hasn't been a big player in AEW for ages, in fact his booking reminds me a little of Cody's given how separate he seems from everything else.



I think it's pretty generous to call it a build, it's mostly been them having matches with other people and an occasional staredown, there didn't seem to be much story beyond having the match for the sake of it.

Its still a build though. Its about whos better, not just thrown together last second. If they could have had a different build, sure, that can be argued, but we cant say there wasnt any build to it or that it didnt matter.

If I speak, I big trouble.
I think AEW should have done a better job once they got him. IMO, they didnt follow up on his debut (along with Adam Cole) and that period where Punk debut'd. They had over 1m viewers per week, and just blew that.
The presentation of BD, who had main evented Mania before he joined, was weird. At least they did a better job with Punk and Moxley, when he first joined.
 
Bryan vs Ospreay was as awesome as expected, MOTY

Yeah just watched it now. Exceeded my expectations and it's as good if not better than the matches Will had with Kenny. The two of them had unbelievable chemistry and some of the spots were so crisp that it's not surprising the usual crowd can't comprehend what they're seeing. Nothing was unsafe.

Only minor criticism is I think it could've done without the Danielson pretend shoot injury at the end stuff. I know they're doing it to put Will over as the huge face of the company but he doesn't need it at all because he already is. The roof is going to come off at Wembley if/when he wins the title. I've run out of superlatives for him now. He's just too good.

Right last 2 matches up next...
 
Yeah just watched it now. Exceeded my expectations and it's as good if not better than the matches Will had with Kenny. The two of them had unbelievable chemistry and some of the spots were so crisp that it's not surprising the usual crowd can't comprehend what they're seeing. Nothing was unsafe.

Only minor criticism is I think it could've done without the Danielson pretend shoot injury at the end stuff. I know they're doing it to put Will over as the huge face of the company but he doesn't need it at all because he already is. The roof is going to come off at Wembley if/when he wins the title. I've run out of superlatives for him now. He's just too good.

Right last 2 matches up next...
Said it last year but ospreay has to main event all in this year. Winning the title would be a great moment after what will be inevitably a great match
 
Said it last year but ospreay has to main event all in this year. Winning the title would be a great moment after what will be inevitably a great match

Yeah defo. Wrap him up in cotton wool a solid month before though. Would just by typical if he gets injured.

This spot was something else...

 
Yeah defo. Wrap him up in cotton wool a solid month before though. Would just by typical if he gets injured.

This spot was something else...


I loved being at all in last year but was gutted about a few injuries like pac, Danielson, hayter. Hopefully they all get a good showcase this year
 
Yeah defo. Wrap him up in cotton wool a solid month before though. Would just by typical if he gets injured.

This spot was something else...



It was a cool spot, but it would have been better if they found a way to make the cutter attempt make sense - Danielson was on the floor when Ospreay went for it, so going for that move looked out of place.
 
I think AEW should have done a better job once they got him. IMO, they didnt follow up on his debut (along with Adam Cole) and that period where Punk debut'd. They had over 1m viewers per week, and just blew that.
The presentation of BD, who had main evented Mania before he joined, was weird. At least they did a better job with Punk and Moxley, when he first joined.
Fully agree
 
It was a cool spot, but it would have been better if they found a way to make the cutter attempt make sense - Danielson was on the floor when Ospreay went for it, so going for that move looked out of place.
That's what makes me laugh when see people waxing lyrical about "amazing storytelling" and all that rubbish for matches like that.

It's just moves that look cool.
 
Danielson is one of the best of the modern era unsure why there is any debate on that, the fact that he is on a retirement tour now into his 40's doesn't change that.

There's isn't a really a debate amongst anyone with any sense.

I've noticed something tonight in this thread funnily enough and it's that a lot of the bad faith arguments come from those with at least 1 mod user note on their accounts. Coincidence? Hmmm
 
Ospreay saying Triple H is beneath him is an incredible take.

To be honest, Ospreay just doesn’t do it for me at all. WWE could hire a top tier gymnast, stick him in the performance center for a year or two and he’d be what Ospreay is.

Dont agree with the Danielson being shite takes. He’s clearly doing what he wants now, but I agree it isn’t as interesting as he once was. If he was interested he’d still be a main eventer in the WWE.

I can’t get behind Swerve as champ. I don’t really follow wrestling as much as I used too, (I still check reddit/twitter/here) and I have no idea who he is.
 
The AEW fans in all honesty chant before people even do stuff. In WWE I feel the performers really need to earn those chants a bit more which makes the matches feel a bit more natural.

Granted the best part of the show was that insane knee in mid air from Bryan. That was incredible as a spot but the no selling from Will too many times I’m just not a fan of.

Gunther is my pick for best in the world currently. I feel as a pure wrestler and athlete he’s the top of the tree. His size, presence and prestige holding a big title so long. He seems to have it all.

No doubt the AEW match will get 6 stars from the Observer but in reality it probably wasn’t the best match this month.

The Mania main event was still bigger pops and overall a tonne more memorable at least for 95% of wrestling fans.
 
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Its still a build though. Its about whos better, not just thrown together last second. If they could have had a different build, sure, that can be argued, but we cant say there wasnt any build to it or that it didnt matter.

I don't really agree with this, just because you know a match is going to take place doesn't mean it's being built, that's just the passage of time between the announcement and the match.

As for the match, it didn't matter, there were no stakes, and as good as it was technically that's it could have not happened and in storyline it wouldn't affect either of them going forward. Ospreay can say he beat a guy that's already jobbed to all the big players on the roster, but that's the kind of match that belongs on an episode of dynamite, PPVs are for matches that matter.
 
:lol: fair point. Now I need to see Joe doing the walk off when he tries it.

It'll happen eventually. Given how pointlessly flippy some of the lower card AEW guys are, I'm surprised Joe hasn't had a match that's just entirely walking away from high moves until the opponent collapses. That actually sounds like fun to watch!

That's what makes me laugh when see people waxing lyrical about "amazing storytelling" and all that rubbish for matches like that.

It's just moves that look cool.

I don't think it's fair to say the match was only that, the majority of it was well put together, it was a really good match technically, but I agree that the reaction has been over the top.

While his athleticism is undoubtedly great, Ospreay needs to work on his selling, particularly facials. There were a few times that his face looked all wrong and it took me out of it, like when he was in the lebell lock, or the elbow thing Danielson does where Ospreay was just staring at him for when to react.

My biggest problem with the match is that it felt like a bit of a waste, as there didn't seem to be any reason for it. A better build with some animosity and some emotion involved would have really elevated it.
 
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It'll happen eventually. Given how pointlessly flippy some of the lower card AEW guys are, I'm surprised Joe hasn't had a match that's just entirely walking away from high moves until the opponent collapses. That actually sounds like fun to watch!



I don't think it's fair to say the match was only that, the majority of it was well put together, it was a really good match technically, but I agree that the reaction has been over the top.

While his athleticism is undoubtedly great, Ospreay needs to work on his selling, particularly facials. There were a few times that his face looked all wrong and it took me out of it, like when he was in the lebell lock, or the elbow thing Danielson does where Ospreay was just staring at him for when to react.

Disagree on that. His selling was really good in the match. He sold the arm well all the way through it and even pinned him with his other arm at the end. I think a lot of the people calling it no selling are just used to an entirely different style of wrestling really. The 1 kick outs, going hit for hit and bouncing back up on certain moves are more the fighting spirit/adrenaline style of NJPW. It's not for everyone but I like it personally (when it's done well as it was in this). The match had great pacing as well, started off quite slowly with some great chain wrestling from both and then really went for it around about when Danielson hit that tiger suplex from the top turnbuckle.
 
I don't really agree with this, just because you know a match is going to take place doesn't mean it's being built, that's just the passage of time between the announcement and the match.

As for the match, it didn't matter, there were no stakes, and as good as it was technically that's it could have not happened and in storyline it wouldn't affect either of them going forward. Ospreay can say he beat a guy that's already jobbed to all the big players on the roster, but that's the kind of match that belongs on an episode of dynamite, PPVs are for matches that matter.
But you can say that about any match that was on Mania that didnt include a title (about five matches). You can say that about most matches on AEW PPVs that dont include a title, if you really want to argue that.

Build can be different for each match. It doesnt need to include a title for there to be 'stakes'. It just matters whether you like it or not. You didnt like it obviously, so youre saying theres no build. Things just happened...
 
But you can say that about any match that was on Mania that didnt include a title (about five matches). You can say that about most matches on AEW PPVs that dont include a title, if you really want to argue that.

Build can be different for each match. It doesnt need to include a title for there to be 'stakes'. It just matters whether you like it or not. You didnt like it obviously, so youre saying theres no build. Things just happened...

This is a little defensive, you've put a lot of words in my mouth that I haven't actually said.

I absolutely agree you can have stakes that doesn't involve a title, I've never suggested otherwise. The best thing AEW has ever done was the Punk vs MJF feud, and that didn't involve a title, but it was masterfully built and when the match came around it was emotionally charged and almost everything that happened mattered, including the result. The approach this match took was the usual "I want to wrestle X person to see who's better" followed by barely interacting up until the PPV, it's a trap that AEW has fallen into too often. It wouldn't be as bad if they'd found a reason to dislike each other or added some needle after the announcement, but the only thing people will remember from the build is Ospreay taking shots at HHH.

You've also come to the conclusion that I'm saying there's no build because I didn't like it, that isn't true. I really enjoyed the match, I just don't think it was the generational match everyone keeps going on about (I can name a bunch of AEW matches off the top of my head that I think are better for example).
 
Disagree on that. His selling was really good in the match. He sold the arm well all the way through it and even pinned him with his other arm at the end. I think a lot of the people calling it no selling are just used to an entirely different style of wrestling really. The 1 kick outs, going hit for hit and bouncing back up on certain moves are more the fighting spirit/adrenaline style of NJPW. It's not for everyone but I like it personally (when it's done well as it was in this). The match had great pacing as well, started off quite slowly with some great chain wrestling from both and then really went for it around about when Danielson hit that tiger suplex from the top turnbuckle.

I think you may have read more into my post than I actually wrote. I think the pacing was really good, that's part of what I meant by technically great. I enjoyed the match, I thought it was really good, just that some of the praise and reaction is over the top.

With regards to Ospreay's selling, I'm focusing specifically on his face, there were a bunch of times that he was obviously looking for the next move, rather than showing the pain that he should be in given that he was getting battered, or was actively in a submission move.
 
This is a little defensive, you've put a lot of words in my mouth that I haven't actually said.

I absolutely agree you can have stakes that doesn't involve a title, I've never suggested otherwise. The best thing AEW has ever done was the Punk vs MJF feud, and that didn't involve a title, but it was masterfully built and when the match came around it was emotionally charged and almost everything that happened mattered, including the result. The approach this match took was the usual "I want to wrestle X person to see who's better" followed by barely interacting up until the PPV, it's a trap that AEW has fallen into too often. It wouldn't be as bad if they'd found a reason to dislike each other or added some needle after the announcement, but the only thing people will remember from the build is Ospreay taking shots at HHH.

You've also come to the conclusion that I'm saying there's no build because I didn't like it, that isn't true. I really enjoyed the match, I just don't think it was the generational match everyone keeps going on about (I can name a bunch of AEW matches off the top of my head that I think are better for example).

What have I paraphased you saying that you havent really said?

Also I wasnt saying you didnt like the match. I said you didnt like the build so youre saying there was no build.
 
Yeah just watched it now. Exceeded my expectations and it's as good if not better than the matches Will had with Kenny. The two of them had unbelievable chemistry and some of the spots were so crisp that it's not surprising the usual crowd can't comprehend what they're seeing. Nothing was unsafe.

Only minor criticism is I think it could've done without the Danielson pretend shoot injury at the end stuff. I know they're doing it to put Will over as the huge face of the company but he doesn't need it at all because he already is. The roof is going to come off at Wembley if/when he wins the title. I've run out of superlatives for him now. He's just too good.

Right last 2 matches up next...
It's the 2nd best wrestling match I've seen, I would have rather had Danielson and Ospreay shake hands at the end.
 
What have I paraphased you saying that you havent really said?

Also I wasnt saying you didnt like the match. I said you didnt like the build so youre saying there was no build.

That stakes = title mostly. Stakes is anything beyond having a match for the sake of it.

I didn't dislike the build, there wasn't a build for me to dislike, just an announcement and then some empty space until the match. There was more animosity between Ospreay and HHH than between him and Danielson.
 
That stakes = title mostly. Stakes is anything beyond having a match for the sake of it.

I didn't dislike the build, there wasn't a build for me to dislike, just an announcement and then some empty space until the match. There was more animosity between Ospreay and HHH than between him and Danielson.

I never said 'you' (@thehilton )said that. I said you (as in, in general) can argue the point that most title matches dont have stakes, hence why i added ' if you really want to argue that.'.

We gonna agree to disagree on the point. This wasnt the random 'dream match' scenario we see on tv shows. For me, it had build in its own way, just whether you like it or not, is upto you.
 
Other than the odd clips here and there I’ve not really seen much of ospreay. What is his gimmick?
 
They make Drew McIntyre very hard to disagree with when he's spot on about everything
Kinda hope with drew that they keep making him miss out on his moments…have him lose the title match in Glasgow due to shenanigans (punk), moments away from winning MITB only to have it snatched away (punk again) be the last guy eliminated in the rumble, becomes more bitter and twisted and so on.

Basically I just want more of this Drew, he’s fun. Feel like the title would take away from that.
 
Kinda hope with drew that they keep making him miss out on his moments…have him lose the title match in Glasgow due to shenanigans (punk), moments away from winning MITB only to have it snatched away (punk again) be the last guy eliminated in the rumble, becomes more bitter and twisted and so on.

Basically I just want more of this Drew, he’s fun. Feel like the title would take away from that.
Him losing in Glasgow would be a brave call.