[In Rainbows]

So you would play him ahead of Matic?

I don’t really understand the role you would expect him to play. Deep in front of the back 4 or energetic going box to box? Would he come deep to start the attacks between the centre backs like Matic does? I don’t think he has anywhere near the quality for that. I also think he would struggle with positional awareness in that position, especially if you partner him with Pogba and a pure playmaker. Playing further forward picking the ball up with his back to goal or on the half turn would be even worse.

You seem to suggest he would play in midfield for his defensive abilities which suggests a deep role but then expect him to lead the charge on the counter attack?

I realise it’s difficult to explain positional intricacies in text but it sounds a bit too much like “Kante is fast and athletic, TFM is fast and athletic. He can do the same as Kante does.” I don’t even think Kante would be anywhere near as effective in the United midfield because he has been at his best in 2 counter attacking sides and United really aren’t a good counter attacking side.

I don't see what's wrong with him being a destroyer, but if the situation presents itself, can start the counter attack after he himself wins the ball back. It's not like we'll be asking him to be out of position constantly. And finally, just because I describe him as being athletic doesn't mean I want him to be a box to box midfielder. I want him to win the ball back and recycle possession to Pogba and the other midfield partner. However, him being athletic is a natural advantage he has when defending as he constantly shows whether he's at CB or FB. He's an amazing tackler and it's his outstanding quality that puts him over the top. I've never seen a stronger tackler for the youth teams dating back to 2011 or United's first team in long time. I've shied away from labeling him this because I have wanted him to produce this at the first team level, but the more and more I watch of him, the more I feel that he can live up to that billing.

I've always liked a midfield 3 with Pogba to have a person who can run the game with their passing and another who can make up for Pogba's tendency to go forward and who can provide the energy Pogba doesn't always provide when tracking back. Pogba is fast, but he uses it in bursts to either dribble or to win the ball back. That's why I felt that Vidal and Pirlo were great partners to Pogba. Vidal provided the energy, and Pirlo ran the game from the back. With TFM, the qualities of the passer (Pirlo) and the athleticism (Vidal) would be reversed. Instead of the maestro from the back like Pirlo or older Carrick, the midfield 3 would have the destroyer who can quickly cover ground should the situation call for it, but is mostly there to protect the back 4. The passer on the other hand would be more mobile than Pirlo or older Carrick.

Essentially Pogba doesn't have to run the game through his passing and he doesn't need to stay back. That's what I think his partners should provide and you can go about it in two different ways.

 

[Bastian]

If we were to get a full back in January, like Sandro, I'd prefer to keep TFM at Palace and always play with Tony and Young dealing with RB. If we aren't getting anyone, we probably need to call him back.

 

[Red_toad]

Odd how the lad gets better and better in midfield, with zero actual playing time there and being a back up right back at Palace. Perspective sadly lacking in this thread.

 

[In Rainbows]

Odd how the lad gets better and better in midfield, with zero actual playing time there and being a back up right back at Palace. Perspective sadly lacking in this thread.

I don't think anyone has said this. People are capable of envisioning where a player can play in the future especially when those same people have watched him play multiple positions at youth level. People also understand that RB is the easier position to break into and seeing as he's young it makes sense why he's playing there now.

 

[Red_toad]

I don't think anyone has said this. People are capable of envisioning where a player can play in the future especially when those same people have watched him play multiple positions at youth level. People also understand that RB is the easier position to break into and seeing as he's young it makes sense why he's playing there now.

Read the thread, it’s already out there!

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Looks like he'll develop into an Ivanovic.

 

[utdman]

After looking at his performances this season, I’d happily ship Smalling off to give him more game time.

And the same goes for Jones with Tuanzebe.

In my eyes, Smalling and Jones are never gonna get any better than they are right now and that’s not the level we aspire to be at. Timbo and Axel have world class potential. Their ceiling is much higher than Smalling and Jones.

Are you serious?

Jones and Smalling are good players as it is and both can get better with more regular football and less injuries. They are getting into their peak. Fosu Mensah and Taunzebe are not even close to replacing them for the next couple of years at least (if they actually turn good enough)

 

[xplatformjedi]

How was his performance today. Palace kept another clean sheet.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

How was his performance today. Palace kept another clean sheet.

He put in a great showing apparently.

 

[xplatformjedi]

He put in a great showing apparently.

I think he's more a holding mid than a RB, but I think he's got the pace and physicality to be good at both. Backup for Valencia and Matic next season.

 

[xplatformjedi]

So...we just have to worry about him shutting down Lacazette? He won't have to worry about Sanchez.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

Feel like I'm in the minority here but always have thought RB is his strongest position.

 

[Womp]

Feel like I'm in the minority here but always have thought RB is his strongest position.

I'm leaning that way too. It'd make better use of his speed and physicality. He just needs to improve on the offensive aspect of being a FB.

 

[Seven Seas Sardines]

I'm leaning that way too. It'd make better use of his speed and physicality. He just needs to improve on the offensive aspect of being a FB.

He's been whipping in 3-4 beautiful crosses per game recently..

 

[Adisa]

Could very well be our first choice RB next season.

 

[Adam-Utd]

This palace loan will have done him wonders IMO.

He's felt both sides of it, being a on a huge losing run and looking like sure relegation, to going on a really impressive run and climbing up the table.

I haven't seen a huge amount of Palace this year but he dealt with Sane really well. Not many FB's in this league can keep with him.

 

[Nero]

Could very well be our first choice RB next season.

I expect him to the first back up to Valencia at first. Can't see Mourinho playing him ahead of Valencia just yet.

 

[RedMachine03]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[xplatformjedi]

What the hell happened to the Palace defense today? 4-0 in the first half?

 

[Red_toad]

What the hell happened to the Palace defense today? 4-0 in the first half?

They were shite especially the right hand side of defence.

 

[Adebesi]

I just cant imagine TFM coming back from his loan and then knuckling down and winning a place in this United team. Not because of him - I havent seen much of him but I gather he is doing pretty well there. But just because I cant imagine Mourinho giving him the opportunity. He can joke about killing kids and all that but there is a reason he has that reputation, it didnt just emerge from nowhere.

I really hope he can be a relatively rare success story of someone going out on loan, getting experience and then coming back and integrating into the squad. The system felt like it worked under SAF with the kids sent to Antwerp etc but I cant think of many - any? - examples of successful loan deals since SAF left. Who has gone away, got the experience under their belt, come back and then broken into the first team?

Its clearly not going to happen with Pereira as he doesnt want to come back here, but on the surface of it, TFM should have a chance. If it can work for anyone, maybe itll be him. Still, I dont expect him to ever make it at United. I hope Im wrong because it would be a real shame.

 

[Ephrem]

I just cant imagine TFM coming back from his loan and then knuckling down and winning a place in this United team. Not because of him - I havent seen much of him but I gather he is doing pretty well there. But just because I cant imagine Mourinho giving him the opportunity. He can joke about killing kids and all that but there is a reason he has that reputation, it didnt just emerge from nowhere.

I really hope he can be a relatively rare success story of someone going out on loan, getting experience and then coming back and integrating into the squad. The system felt like it worked under SAF with the kids sent to Antwerp etc but I cant think of many - any? - examples of successful loan deals since SAF left. Who has gone away, got the experience under their belt, come back and then broken into the first team?

Its clearly not going to happen with Pereira as he doesnt want to come back here, but on the surface of it, TFM should have a chance. If it can work for anyone, maybe itll be him. Still, I dont expect him to ever make it at United. I hope Im wrong because it would be a real shame.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...dreas-pereira-alex-ferguson-manchester-united

 

[charlenefan]

Jose replaced Cech with Courtois so it's not completely against the realms of possibility that a young player who looked no where near the first team this season is thrown straight in next year (thinking Pereira, TFM, Tuanzebe)

 

[Adebesi]

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...dreas-pereira-alex-ferguson-manchester-united

Oh that's encouraging. I must have missed the latest developments, about a month ago it felt like all the coverage was he had no intention of coming back.

Mind you the same basically applies - even more so. I cant imagine him making it here as much as I would love him to.

 

[Adebesi]

Jose replaced Cech with Courtois so it's not completely against the realms of possibility that a young player who looked no where near the first team this season is thrown straight in next year (thinking Pereira, TFM, Tuanzebe)

Definitely not outside the realms of possibility. Just seems unlikely. Without having any special insight or doing any particular research into exactly how well either player is doing.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Oh that's encouraging. I must have missed the latest developments, about a month ago it felt like all the coverage was he had no intention of coming back.

Mind you the same basically applies - even more so. I cant imagine him making it here as much as I would love him to.

I think I read that too. I think he didn't want to be recalled mid-season, rather than not at all. That interview above is very promising though. Sounds like he loves the club and its all about developing in to a United player. Next year should really be his year if Mourinho is paying attention. He's a key player in a team who are playing better than we are right now in terms of their unity and teamwork.

He could well be an upgrade on Herrera, and could save the club a huge transfer fee for a CM if he can slot right in, but that just sounds too good to be true for it to happen.

 

[limerickcitykid]

I just cant imagine TFM coming back from his loan and then knuckling down and winning a place in this United team. Not because of him - I havent seen much of him but I gather he is doing pretty well there. But just because I cant imagine Mourinho giving him the opportunity. He can joke about killing kids and all that but there is a reason he has that reputation, it didnt just emerge from nowhere.

I really hope he can be a relatively rare success story of someone going out on loan, getting experience and then coming back and integrating into the squad. The system felt like it worked under SAF with the kids sent to Antwerp etc but I cant think of many - any? - examples of successful loan deals since SAF left. Who has gone away, got the experience under their belt, come back and then broken into the first team?

Its clearly not going to happen with Pereira as he doesnt want to come back here, but on the surface of it, TFM should have a chance. If it can work for anyone, maybe itll be him. Still, I dont expect him to ever make it at United. I hope Im wrong because it would be a real shame.

Andreas has said he wants to come back, not just the recent interview but on a couple months back as well after everyone lost their shit since he said he wants to stay the whole season. Of course no one paid attention to that interview though because it doesn't fit the hystericals.

Lingard has broke through after SAF after going on loans. Other than John O'Shea who was actually loaned to Antwerp. Post-SAF is a very short period of time to be expecting any amount of players to have gone on loan and then broke through. How many academy players do you expect to make it? Andreas, Axel and TFM are the first set to go on loan post-SAF who are rated highly and with a chance of making it. If none are given a chance after their loans then it's time to make conclusions.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

Jose replaced Cech with Courtois so it's not completely against the realms of possibility that a young player who looked no where near the first team this season is thrown straight in next year (thinking Pereira, TFM, Tuanzebe)

wasnt Curtois on loan for like 3 years in one of the best teams in Spain? I am not sure if any of the players is on the same level in terms of experience and abilities to be ready to be a starter. For TFM, he's still very new to the RB position so if things go well for him at Palace I expect him to alternate with Valencia next season in 70:30 favour for Valencia at least.


Tuanzebe has no experience, we'll see how he turns out at Villa if he gets enough game time at all but ideally he should be loaned out for the whole season next year again because he has no little chance to get into the side on any position..

Pereira - like Mourinho said, he's playing in Valencia at position that doesn't exist in Manchester United, I think he's as good as gone. He'll be another Rossi, great talent probably having a great career elsewhere for a second tier team with a chance to get to a top team when he's about 24/25, shame but there's no space for him. We should be selling hm with a buy back clause

 

[Adebesi]

I think I read that too. I think he didn't want to be recalled mid-season, rather than not at all. That interview above is very promising though. Sounds like he loves the club and its all about developing in to a United player. Next year should really be his year if Mourinho is paying attention. He's a key player in a team who are playing better than we are right now in terms of their unity and teamwork.

He could well be an upgrade on Herrera, and could save the club a huge transfer fee for a CM if he can slot right in, but that just sounds too good to be true for it to happen.

Well put, that is exactly the right phrase for how I feel about it. It all just seems too good to be true, getting this highly rated midfielder who has done well elsewhere, who we might even consider signing if he wasnt already ours, coming back and making it.

Andreas has said he wants to come back, not just the recent interview but on a couple months back as well after everyone lost their shit since he said he wants to stay the whole season. Of course no one paid attention to that interview though because it doesn't fit the hystericals.

Lingard has broke through after SAF after going on loans. Other than John O'Shea who was actually loaned to Antwerp. Post-SAF is a very short period of time to be expecting any amount of players to have gone on loan and then broke through. How many academy players do you expect to make it? Andreas, Axel and TFM are the first set to go on loan post-SAF who are rated highly and with a chance of making it. If none are given a chance after their loans then it's time to make conclusions.

Fair point. I sincerely hope I am wrong and am just being unduly pessimistic in expecting Mourinho to identify a couple of 29-31 year olds to come in and play in their positions.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

He has it all. Impressive pace, heigh, physicality, decent technical ability for a defender, surprisingly good crossing too. Not sure where he will end up in term of position, but i definitely think he should be part of our squad next season.

 

[charlenefan]

Pereira - like Mourinho said, he's playing in Valencia at position that doesn't exist in Manchester United, I think he's as good as gone. He'll be another Rossi, great talent probably having a great career elsewhere for a second tier team with a chance to get to a top team when he's about 24/25, shame but there's no space for him. We should be selling hm with a buy back clause

Do you have those quotes to hand? What position is he playing at Valencia that doesn't exist here?

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

Andreas has said he wants to come back, not just the recent interview but on a couple months back as well after everyone lost their shit since he said he wants to stay the whole season. Of course no one paid attention to that interview though because it doesn't fit the hystericals.

Fair dos. I genuinely wasn't aware of that interview. Just the one about not wanting to be recalled, though I didn't read too much in to the latter anyway, as he signed an extension in September just gone.

 

[limerickcitykid]

Fair point. I sincerely hope I am wrong and am just being unduly pessimistic in expecting Mourinho to identify a couple of 29-31 year olds to come in and play in their positions.

I'm pessimistic myself Mourinho using them and will be very annoyed if it turns out that way. I just didn't think its fair to look at a short period of time as an assessment of the loan system when really you only expect someone to come back from loan and make it once every 2-3 years at most.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

In terms of players ever going out on loan and coming back to establish themselves as first team regulars it’s a very short list. Lingard is the most obvious recent example. Before him, I can think of Welbeck and Evans. Before them you'd probably be going back to David Beckham? Can't think of anyone else? So in the almost 25 years since Becks established himself as a first team regular we've barely had a handful of other examples that followed suit. Over a period of time where us fans got our hopes up about dozens and dozens of prospects. Many of whom did very well when out on loan.

All of which means it's incredibly unlikely that Pereira or TFM have a long term future at the club. The sheer weight of numbers goes against them. I'm a little more optimistic about Timothy because he is at least getting PL experience in a position where we have an obvious vacancy coming up in the next year or two. I'm always optimistic about our loanees, mind you, even though all the evidence points towards this optimism being far more likely to be misplaced than accurate. And that applied just as much under Fergie as it does now, under Mourinho.

 

[Adebesi]

Fletcher did it didnt he?

 

[Wowi]

Fletcher did it didnt he?

I don't believe Fletcher ever went out on loan. Wikipedia backs that up!

 

[pascell]

I just cant imagine TFM coming back from his loan and then knuckling down and winning a place in this United team. Not because of him - I havent seen much of him but I gather he is doing pretty well there. But just because I cant imagine Mourinho giving him the opportunity. He can joke about killing kids and all that but there is a reason he has that reputation, it didnt just emerge from nowhere.

I really hope he can be a relatively rare success story of someone going out on loan, getting experience and then coming back and integrating into the squad. The system felt like it worked under SAF with the kids sent to Antwerp etc but I cant think of many - any? - examples of successful loan deals since SAF left. Who has gone away, got the experience under their belt, come back and then broken into the first team?

Its clearly not going to happen with Pereira as he doesnt want to come back here, but on the surface of it, TFM should have a chance. If it can work for anyone, maybe itll be him. Still, I dont expect him to ever make it at United. I hope Im wrong because it would be a real shame.

With regards to TFM, Jose himself said we had a 3/4 year plan for him. 1st year was integrating him into the first team set up, ie training, being around the seniors and the odd minutes. 2nd year would be a full season of first team football out on loan and 3rd would be coming back to United and being back up to Valencia whilst getting more starts and then 4th year would be first choice RB.

 

[limerickcitykid]

John O'Shea, Richardson, Cleverley, and Gibson all went on loan.

That is about every youth player who has played a decent amount of game within in that time so it's not like the ones who didn't get loaned were benefiting better. We all know the academy declined a bit at times during that time which has nothing to do with loans. Sir Alex has admitted to neglecting (not sure thats the right word really) youth in later years which has nothing to do with loans.

Pique also would have made had he wanted to stay, which leads to another point of there being no space in the first team. When a huge group come through in one generation it means there is no space for the next group to come through.

The sheer weight of numbers means nothing as well. A large amount of loans are for players like currently Matty Willock or Charlie Scott. They aren't making it, no one thinks they will and no one ever thought they would. Them not making it after the loan has zero bearing on the loans of actual top talents.

 

[TheFlagStaysDown]

Do you have those quotes to hand? What position is he playing at Valencia that doesn't exist here?

He's playing mostly as RM or LM, Mourinho is playing quick wingers there, obviously Mata is exception as we have no other choice right now but we will buy a player for that position if not use Sanchez there..

“No, no. Pereira is happy. He’s playing. My only little concern is that he’s playing in a position that doesn’t exist in Manchester United.

“They’re playing in a total different system than us and he plays in a position that we don’t have. We will need an update in relation to that.

“But the experience he’s having, playing in a good competition, in a good club, in a difficult club because it’s a club with big fanbase, with pressure around, I think is an amazing experience for him and we are happy to let him [stay] there.”


Read more at http://www.squawka.com/news/andreas...is-little-concern/1008805#FCxKHhxoXQIeiCFj.99

 

[NoPace]

He's playing mostly as RM or LM, Mourinho is playing quick wingers there, obviously Mata is exception as we have no other choice right now but we will buy a player for that position if not use Sanchez there..

“No, no. Pereira is happy. He’s playing. My only little concern is that he’s playing in a position that doesn’t exist in Manchester United.

“They’re playing in a total different system than us and he plays in a position that we don’t have. We will need an update in relation to that.

“But the experience he’s having, playing in a good competition, in a good club, in a difficult club because it’s a club with big fanbase, with pressure around, I think is an amazing experience for him and we are happy to let him [stay] there.”


Read more at http://www.squawka.com/news/andreas...is-little-concern/1008805#FCxKHhxoXQIeiCFj.99

This all sound right, but it doesn't seem crazy for us to experiment with a narrow style 4-4-2 like Valencia use, in some of our big games.

-----Sanchez--Lukaku/Martial----
Pogba-Herrera/CM-Matic-Pereira

could work pretty well, right? Sanchez starting counter attacks and Pogba looking to join, Matic with a more mobile partner shielding and Pereira calmly using possession to start counters and hitting crosses to Pogba at the back post and Lukaku (if he's playing) up top.