If fatigue was a problem today, after getting a breather since the league ended, then we're in big trouble. There's no real time to rest after the Europa League before we start a new, full, season schedule.
Tired....again
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
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I don't think we have how or with what to do that. The only thing that worked for Solskjaer is that front 3 with Fernandes behind and Pogba further behind. We'll live or die on that, because anything else won't be nearly as good and we don't have much to offer from the bench.
Mata saying the team is tired
50+ performances... with an unprecedented break (mostly will lose fitness), so give them a break!
We’ve got no time to work on anything on the training ground either.
We've 6 days until the next game but the players have never had a season like this in terms of the long break, lack of fitness and then the intensity of restart.
I think we might have issues at the start of next season - United, Wolves and City's season has effectively gone on for an extra 3/4 weeks - I know our break will be longer but we will have to squeeze the games in a shorter time.
We could really use the 4 or 5 signings it would take for us to really effectively rotate our team and be competitive.
Liverpool handed a bit advantage
I think we might have issues at the start of next season - United, Wolves and City's season has effectively gone on for an extra 3/4 weeks - I know our break will be longer but we will have to squeeze the games in a shorter time.
We could really use the 4 or 5 signings it would take for us to really effectively rotate our team and be competitive.
Liverpool handed a bit advantage
Not really. It was 32 degrees at kick off tonight.
Why doesn't Ole make more substitutions on his key players whenever we are ahead (Pogba, Martial, Rashford, Maguire, Bruno)? They really look leggy and in need of less game time. Players like McTominay, Fred, Mata, Ighalo and Lindelof/Bailly are good enough to come on and keep things flowing when we are ahead. I know many on this forum have their issues with James but even he's a good option to bring on against tired defenders - take Rashford off for example.
I'm massively worried by how lethargic and slow we looked. How are we meant to attack the new season if we look like this now? Our squad is so thin, I get why Ole can't change it too much as the options are mostly terrible, but it's going to and is causing us issues.
So.. Copenhagen not tired?
Only us that are tired... feck off. Bullshit excuse!
Only us that are tired... feck off. Bullshit excuse!
The bs shit tiredness excuse aside, it's a fine "safe" interview.
Not surprising from Mata.
It'll be shit if even Ole made the same bs excuse.
Oh come on, Copenhagen also had tough schedule and tried, yet they played well (as best as they can with the quality of their players), and we were shit despite the far better quality of players we have.
We were not tired yesterday. More like struggling against a solid danish wall.
That, and the worst individual performance by Bruno this 2020. At least he scores the penalties, unlike Pog and Rashford.
That, and the worst individual performance by Bruno this 2020. At least he scores the penalties, unlike Pog and Rashford.
No they didn't. I had a look at their schedule and they came back to play on 22nd May. Played 15 matches till 5th Aug or in ~74 days. Or a match per 5 days.
Us 12 matches from 20th June to 6th Aug. Or ~ 47 days. Or roughly 4 days a match.
It doesn't sound a big difference but our schedule was much more congested imo.
And imo it was the heat. Both sides looked really tired and there were a lot of cramps.
Yeah Ive thought this since the Europa dates became apparent. Liverpool have been on a beach for three weeks now while our lads still have another 10 days, potentially, of football to play In 30 degree heat. In exchange we start all of one week later, which doesnt even begin to make up for It. I really think we’ll pay for playing these summer games mid season.
We’ve played 60 games this season, it’s been going on over a year. We got to the semi-final of two cups, and the second half of the season had required a ridiculous level of consistency to achieve third in the league. No easy/off-weeks, just 100% commitment all the time. The lads deserve credit, it’s not easy. All things considered, our energy levels are good and we can see the work that Ole and the staff have put in.
It’s physically draining but also mentally draining too, which is less-often considered but equally important. One or two games remain, but we really need a break now to regain energy and focus. A huge amount has been asked of these guys, not a great performance last night but I can’t be too critical of anything at this point. And on another night we might have scored 5.
Special credit to Harry Maguire, who has played 53 games this season and completed 90+ mins in all of them (I think?), yet still turned in a top performance yesterday.
It’s physically draining but also mentally draining too, which is less-often considered but equally important. One or two games remain, but we really need a break now to regain energy and focus. A huge amount has been asked of these guys, not a great performance last night but I can’t be too critical of anything at this point. And on another night we might have scored 5.
Special credit to Harry Maguire, who has played 53 games this season and completed 90+ mins in all of them (I think?), yet still turned in a top performance yesterday.
That’s way too strong. There’s plenty on here way more pessimistic than me. I’m just honest about the deficiencies in the team, something people really don’t like hearing on here. We are Manchester United and we haven’t come close to mounting a title challenge in close to a decade. Are we expected to be positive about this? We are going to make one signing this summer. I don’t think it’s enough. Although I was hyped in 2001 when he got RVN & Veron and underwhelmed in 2006 when we got Carrick & look what happened. I hope I’m wrong but I can’t see us challenging any time soon. We seem capable of good form in spurts, and then once the bubble bursts our form completely dies. We haven’t looked the same since Southampton.
You're actually expecting to see us challenge with the likes of current Liverpool and City in 18 months, two windows from that mess? In this crazy current market?
It's not FM mate.
That danish wall was more like a danish pastry, we had 26 shots. Had Rashford and Martial kept their nerve better 1on1 with the 'keeper, the scoreline would've reflected the game better.
They've played the same amount of games in July, and one more game then us since beginning of June, admittedly we started two and a bit weeks after them in June.
They didn't have the luxury of resting their star players in the leg before, most of the team that played last night played a few days ago against Istanbul.
So yeah, our fixtures were congested at the start, but not in July and having the luxury of resting players for the second leg needs to be taken into consideration.
They played 9 games from 21 June to 5 Aug. Us 12 games. It's not the same mate. And we have no idea how much they rotated during that time I think. But us, the result of us being so gashed that we had to play basically our first XI every matches except against Norwich and LASK. Not mentioning the fact matches in the PL should be much more demanding and exhausting than in the Danish league.
I think we can challenge with a CB, DM, RW & 2 squad depth players. That’s 5 signings, we could do that in 1 window. Look at Chelsea. They’ve already made 3 signings.
Now depending what side of the Ole coin you're on, it can be either he is clueless or he just has no faith in what we have on the bench, as last night, bob rashford was in need of being pulled off early on. Go back and look at the offside goal and the celebrations before it was ruled out, bob rashford look totally knackered just running over to join in, wonder will neville slate him as out of shape like he did Rom and he played him for nearly all the match and and even took off the one at the time most likely to score in Mason and thats not the first time he has done this, think Bruno in that fa cup game against Norwich.
Then he seems to have lost all faith in Ighalo since he signed the extension. I really love to see Ole thrive and succeed here given the failures of WC managers like LVG and Jose, but the man just brings the hate and abuse (not saying its justified) we seen on here and elsewhere on himself with his poor tactics and decisions.
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Well that's easy £250m-£300m you're talking about mate. In this Covid climate. And all the signings must be correct and immediately integrated into our squad. Without taking into consideration of who should we sign. For example what DM is we talking about?
I don't say it's impossible, anything is possible in football but us seriously challenging next season would require a bloody miracle to happen mate.
Surprised by this. Maybe he’s referring to end of season mental burnout rather than physical fatigue.
I'd love to see people attempt to play football at professional level for 120minutes in 30 degrees and not look tired. 
I think the main issue I have is that Rashford still looks utterly destroyed. If we do manage to get Sancho in then I really do hope we give him a few weeks on the bench to let him recover.
I think the main issue I have is that Rashford still looks utterly destroyed. If we do manage to get Sancho in then I really do hope we give him a few weeks on the bench to let him recover.
I think it was partly tactical and partly not adapting to the conditions yesterday.
Swings and roundabouts,
We have a bigger squad...
We actually only played 11 games in that period, with one being LASK where we rested a vast majority of those that played last night.
It's not really a huge amount of game time more is it?!
Both teams had the same amount of rest before the game last night too.
And why are games in the premiership more demanding? I don't get that at all!! It's all relative.
Games in the prem ARE more demanding. Countless of players coming from other leagues have said that they were amazed by how quick it is. The Danish is definitely not as physically demanding. I don’t think it’s even up for debate.
That's what looked most obvious to me. Rashford looked so tired he wasn't moving freely and trying to stretch to get himself right. He looked exhausted. You'd worry about his back. Can't keep playing Rashford, Martial and Greenwood so much. Sancho would allow us to manage it without a huge drop in quality.I'd love to see people attempt to play football at professional level for 120minutes in 30 degrees and not look tired.
I think the main issue I have is that Rashford still looks utterly destroyed. If we do manage to get Sancho in then I really do hope we give him a few weeks on the bench to let him recover.
How many United players last night are unaccustomed to the premier League?? Possibly one in Bruno. They are conditioned for it.
The arguement that the premiership is 'more demanding' doesn't make a huge amount of sense, as once again it's all relative.
Harks back to the people that used to say the English players were tired before a major tournament, despite the European players who play in the premiership displaying none of the lethargy of the English team...
The Copenhagen players are in theory of a lesser quality than the United players, so no reason why their league isn't as demanding as the Premiership for their quality.
The ironic thing about all of this is United were the team doing all the running in extra time, not akin to a team apparently tired.
I suspect the temperature was a fairly big factor last night. Doesn't explain the bullshit first half but does explain the tiredness towards the end.
feck me, players look tired playing in 30°C+ heat? Why do peope think games aren't played during the summertime? Do people remember the 2000 CWC where we finished behind Vasco Da Game and Necaxa as European Champions? Middle of the season in the Brazilian summer. We looked like we just started pre-season. Real Madrid was also there but the there was a Brazilian final. At least during the international tournaments the teams get a couple of weeks to acclimate but the weather is still definitely a big factor in many of those tournaments.
You're accustomed to it, but you're still putting your body through immense wear and tear. Why do you think many players can no longer play in the prem when they get older, but can easily transfer over to a league of the Danish league's quality. No matter how fit and accustomed to a higher level your body is, it will breakdown sooner. In the very top leagues you are pushing your body to the absolute maximum, there is no more effort you can make. But for Copenhagen, yes that is their relative level, but they could work harder. They could be a fitter side, so their bodies aren't being destroyed nearly as much. I mean look at Sanchez, he played at his peak for 3 years without break and his body crumbled. Now he's gone to a slower pace league he seems to be able to regenerate and play himself back into some semblance of form.
Also in regards to international tournaments, England's entire team would play a season in the prem, when all other countries would maybe feature 3 players maximum, 1 or 2 of whom were probably a bit gassed, but then they're buoyed by the rest of the team and their energy levels. Some players will be affected by it more than others, maybe 4 out of the 11 English players were good to go, but if the majority of your team mates are playing lethargic football and losing morale because of it, then that would affect you even if you were feeling fit.
Whilst I understand your point of view, it doesn't really compute with me.
You mention Sanchez, he never really wanted to come to us, that's half, if not most of the reason why he never took off here, nothing to do with what you are implicating.
Copenhagen players equally put their bodies through the ringer during a season, in terms of fitness there is barely anything between any top teams these days. They are just as fit and as strong as United, however United showed greater levels of energy in extra time, proving the theory that the United players are not tired.
I assume with regards to your international theory, Belgium are the outliers then? The ones that don't confirm to the rule?
As they have a large number of premiership stars yet I've never heard them complain about tiredness?!
Just one final point, there was an interesting moment in the Man City documentary the other year whereby Pep is shouting at his players regarding being Champions, it was something along the lines of: 'You are tired? F**k you, We are tired? F**k you. You're not tired if you want to be champions.'
Tiredness is mostly mental, this quote highlights it.
Yep massive advantage for Liverpool. Rewarded for their underachievement.
Ok tiredness is mostly mental and playing in a more intensive league doesn't give you more accumulated fatigue. You win mate.
Btw do you know why most amateur players can play three matches a week while most professional players can only play two competitive matches a week on a regular basis?
Sánchez was done before he came to us - people assumed it was because he wanted to leave, but it was because he had been playing for so long with little break. He’s looking good at Inter but still isn’t half the player he was at his best. He’s lost half a yard. It’s pretty plain to see that his body is not what it once was.
Copenhagen aren’t as fit. I’ll reiterate my point that players on the whole struggle with the pace of the league when they join and find it easier to go to lesser leagues when they’ve aged and are less fit. Yes there are more examples of players taking to the league, I.e. Bruno, but that’s because clubs are looking at certain player profiles. For every Bruno you probably have three Keita’s who take their time to adapt. Obviously Copenhagen could be at a base level just a fit, do the same fitness drills, have the same diet and follow the same sports science as we do. But they aren’t playing pretty much every game against opposition as good as us, which make you work harder and are more physical and where the pace of the games is far far faster. That’s why we will be fitter, but that’s why our players bodies will also be going through more wear and tear.
Re England vs Belgium fitness levels - entirely different play styles historically. In the last World Cup we didn’t have as many issues with fitness because we now play a more technical game and are progressing into being a more technical team. Previously all we were known for was running and being physical. We wouldn’t always dominate possession. Belgium are a side full of incredibly technical players, they run less without the ball.
That’s the issue that a lot of ex players and journalists have said. Teams such as city or spurs can’t sustain their maximum level over an extended period of time. There is no much more blowout. Rumours from spurs was that the players were shattered after playing at such an intensity for so long with hardly any rotation. We’ll see how Liverpool do next season, but with little refreshing of the squad and minimal rotation it looks likely that they could struggle with fitness levels.
I won't go into it in depth but the brain is designed to accept commands.
If you constantly tell your self you're tired, your brain will believe it and make sure your body follows suit.
If you change the words and tell your self you need energy, (notice the difference) your brain will follow suit and make the body work for you.
You don't have to believe me, but it's true. Any sports scientist or Psychologist will tell you the same.
That's not to say fatigue doesn't exist, of course it does, but a highly trained athlete doesn't feel fatigue as quickly as an amateur.
I'm not here to 'win'. I'm just here to make a point that the constant moaning about tiredness is just an excuse, and I feel I've out forward rational, educational and now scientific evidence to suggest it.
All I get from the other side is hypotheses and personal feelings.
Hang on, so it takes two seasons for fatigue to happen? As Liverpool appear to have been consistently fit for that amount of time now!
Your kind of countering your own points here.
There really isn't much in the way of fitness between any top teams, there really isn't. The fact you mentioned that United are playing against better teams means very little, when Copenhagen are playing against equally good teams for their level. It's more to do with quality then fitness.
I get what your trying to say, United work harder for their wins due to the quality of the opposition, but the quality of United has to be taken into account also.
Also you mention a technical game that Belgium play, do United not play a similar technical game then? Because as quick glance we generally have more possession of the ball, more passes, more touches of the ball, so in theory we shouldn't be tired right?!?
As I say, your countering your own points. Read what I put in the post above as that highlights a lot of my thought process behind this all.
No it's not excuse man. Only the blind ones wouldn't see most of our guys looked gashed.
And of course I don't buy that tiredness is mostly mental or if your brain 'command' your body to not be tired then your body will gladly 'obey' then be fresh as new. It's totally bollock. If so football clubs wouldn't hire any fitness coach or invest millions into their fitness recovery facility but only hire some therapists. And I've been playing football for almost 25 years, amateur of course. Have you ever play football or any sport?
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