Toaster Toes Timo Werner | Tottenham Player
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
Hi Evra!
fecking hell, blast from the past!Did evra say the same thing? Didn't hear from him today. If he did then he is not much wrong.
Jonno plays too much FIFA.
So bottom line is...you've only watched our last two games of the season?
Would probably be a decent race!
No I watched you more than that but unfortunately whenever I have seen you lot play your forwards especially Werner and Kai have hardly looked amazing. So far this season Giroud has looked better than Kai and werner. Pulisic is decent and I really like Ziyech but giroud is massively underrated.
But giroud has only come back into tje side recently so what have you been watching ?
Jota's done well so far but I think Werner has the higher ceiling once he gets settled to the league (which jota is)
I watched two boring 0-0 draws that your side played against Spurs and United. And trust me Werner was hardly anything amazing. As an oppo fan I hate the sight of Giroud more than Werner (at least till now). Not saying werner is not good, just that giroud is massively underrated.
Think he's fairly one-dimensional to be honest, but it's a pretty good fecking dimension to have. He was never a clinical finisher at Leipzig so I wouldn't expect that to change in a Chelsea shirt, but he'll always be a threat
4 goals and 4 assists in 11 PL games which puts him on course for a 15 goal season. Decent but a bit meh for someone who came at that price.
First off Havertz is not playing as a forward in this team. He's played mostly in CM in our preferred 4-3-3. Yes he's been slow to get going but that is expected of a young big money signing. Also I dont know what you meaning by “hardly looked amazing"? You probably missed the stats duffer gave for Werner. He is our biggest attacking threat not Giroud. Giroud is in form at the moment and Werner is struggling with his finishing but lets not pretend the first 14 or so games didnt happen. I agree Giroud is underrated but hes not been ourbest forward so far this season.
Good return for a winger in their first season.
£47 million aint what it used to be, you barely get 2/3rd of a Pepe or Kepa for that.
It’s about what should be expected of him, I reckon. He’ll probably be a high 10s type of forward.
That miss was outstanding.
It was the clearance off the line beforehand that made it special.
The duality of the caf. One of my favorite things about this place. You see two posts at completely different ends of the spectrum right next to each other.
He's not exactly a winger though. Plays in a free role off the main striker and general goes well into the inside channel often being 1v1 with the keeper. At the time he arrived most people expected him to get around the 25 goal mark with his goalscoring one of his main assets. He may well pick up going forward and has been getting into better positions compared to start of the season when he was spending time away from goal but at the moment the league output is surely below par. He also seems to have more impact later on in the game which is understandable given he has great pace but games are usually done and dusted by then. I won't mind if he continues at the same pace.
In general play i thought this was one of his best games for us.
That miss was an abomination though!
That miss was an abomination though!
25 league goals? That's basically top scorer (it would be for the past couple of seasons). Of course if people expected him to come in and tear the league apart, they'll think he's underperformed.
I think he's done well. Certainly more a "hit" than a "miss".
Every forward ever has missed chances. Like all good players, Werner's confidence does not seem to drop and he's still getting in good positions, even after the shocker today.
Like I said I'm more than happy if he continues at the same rate i.e. scoring in 3 out of 11 games played, starting in every single one of them. If someone had told me Werner would be scoring in around 10/11 games while starting every game in the season I'd have taken that in a heartbeat.
We've scored more goals than anyone else in the league and anyone else in our Champions League group. I don't really care if Werner personally gets 1 more, 5 more or 20 more goals if he keeps contributing to the team as he is!
As you say, he's playing an awful lot and our start to the season has been very good, thanks in part to him.
It's just that everyone was raving about him at the start of the season, and he scored bucketloads in the bundesliga. But it's a new team, and he is maybe still adjusting to the pace of the league.
What are your opinions on Havertz? I just don't see the stardust in him.
Just to be clear I don't think he's been a flop or anything. His general play is quite good. I'd just be expecting him to deliver more in front of goal. Even the games he scored in were a 3-3 goalfest vs Soton and two of the worst defenses in the league in Burnley and Sheffield. Even today Leeds have been one of the leakiest defenses in the league and that gave him ample opportunities to score only to have some shocking misses.
Very happy with him so far. Probably our best offensive weapon this season, so far.
Nothing changed yet to make me think he's not a bang average speed merchant.
People still get way too hung up about converting chances. As I said ealier, he has outperformed his xG in his career so him missing a few chances lately is nothing more than statistical noise and irrelevant. Judge him by the chances he gets himself into and sets up for others. And he seems to be doing well in that regard (0.62 xG and 0.16 xA per 90 in league and Champions League).
He literally stopped a ball from hitting the net yesterday, and then proceeded to somehow hit the bar with his next touch from a yard out!!
That's not statistical noise and irrelevant, that's absolutely shocking forward play!
You are now moving the goalposts of chance conversion to chance creation mixed with chance conversion, that probably highlights moreso that his conversion rate isn't what it should be.
I'm not mixing anything. I'm saying chance creation is the important metric here and unless there is solid long-term evidence that Werner is a bad finisher (there is not) conversion should be ignored if all that you are basing your argument on is a sample of a handful of games. Even this season where he has missed some good chances he is 8 goals from 9.1 xG in 17 games. It would not matter if that were 5 goals or 12, the sample is too small to draw any conclusions from. But even just using this season's numbers there is no indication that he is a bad finisher.
That's almost literally the definition of statistical noise - focusing on one incident no matter how shocking over the bigger picture will always be less informative.
The best thing about him is no matter if he misses he keeps going keeps running his stamina is great. I have no issues with him. The goals will come.
I've said it since the signing became official: Werner is one of the most one-dimensional strikers/attacking wingers you'll find.
He has great pace/acceleration and workrate, yes, but he's mediocre at best in all other categories (finishing, technique, football IQ, link-up play, aerial duels etc.).
He can be a weapon in the right system like Leipzig, which was basically tailormade for him, but if he can't make his runs behind the last line, he's lost.
His ceiling is that of a solid PL striker or poor-man's Vardy, but nothing more.
There is a reason Bayern rejected him, despite them actually wanting to collect all German top players - he simply isn't on that level.
He has great pace/acceleration and workrate, yes, but he's mediocre at best in all other categories (finishing, technique, football IQ, link-up play, aerial duels etc.).
He can be a weapon in the right system like Leipzig, which was basically tailormade for him, but if he can't make his runs behind the last line, he's lost.
His ceiling is that of a solid PL striker or poor-man's Vardy, but nothing more.
There is a reason Bayern rejected him, despite them actually wanting to collect all German top players - he simply isn't on that level.
Yeah Evra pretty much said Giroud is Chelsea best striker.
You're right, expected goals should be a long term basis rather than a handful of games.
I'm not saying he's a bad finisher, rather he's struggling to convert chances right now. That's not a lie and you don't need stats to back that up.
The debate seems to have moved from chance conversion to chance creation mixed with conversion in order to increase his output.
Good job that's not what I'm doing then!
They even rejected him when he had a clause of 25M. That they didn't even consider it worth a try at that price tells you enough about how they judged his potential. Far too one dimensional for any team with elite ambitions.
still think his return so far is decent for a winger. I still reckon he will eventually end up striker and i suspect that is where he will start to bag more regularly.
apart from the player himself confirming Pep contacted him to join City? Or Klopp desperately wanting him? Aye